105. LIFE | Dopamine Detox: Lame Experiment or Valuable Reset? - Transcripts

January 11, 2023

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Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, dgens and dgennets to another episode of the Alfalfa podcast. We are four radically moderate entrepreneurs and investors swimming in the messy gray ocean, serving up alpha in money, politics, and life. We are Nick or Bonnie, Eric Johansson, Steven Cesaro, and I am Armon Asadi. All links at alfalfapod.com. Make sure to hit subscribe wherever you are listening or watching on YouTube and follow us on the socials. And most importantly, hop in our discord to join the community for the after party and more alfalfa. All right. Well, Eric's freaking out.

You want me to just shit on this the first two seconds of the episode? It's the dumbest thing you've ever done. Oh, man. So I'm trying to look at this with like... What are we talking about? What about this detox? Like this is like a detox update. We're three or four days in now. And

I've gone full from the seconds of the episode. What did we talk about?

Okay. Sorry people here, this will be like a week and a half end, right? Something like that. Eleven days in

No, something like that. Eleven days in Yeah, you're hearing Eric like three days in. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You're hearing Eric, like three days. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And okay. So, I went pretty full and make it. I, I went no internet for three days. I went no phone, basically like I got text messages from you guys, but I'm like, I'm going like full monk for the first three days. Um, it, like also there's external factors. It's been raining, so I can't like go outside too much. Like that kind of sucks. Um, but being indoors and not having access to the things that I enjoy doing when I'm indoors fucking sucks. And like, I think objectively, I'm looking at this objectively because I think there's part of me that says like, oh, this is really good for you, right. Because like, you're, you're doing this with the intention.

Like part of me wants to believe that it's worth it. But when I'm going through it, I feel less productive at work and I'm having less joy at play. So like this whole thing to me just feels pretty shitty,

like I feel like it's like rewardless, that's subjective might not make it, I commend your commitment. And I feel like that's like rewardless,

that's subjective. It's rewardless. This thing feels rewardless,

This thing feels rewardless. Is there any part of it that feels rewardless? Is there any part of it that feels rewardless? The part that has been good, but also kind of bad, I've been sleeping like a baby. So like with nothing to do indoors, I read for like eight hours. I got into bed at like 6 p.m. And by 8 p.m. I was fast asleep and I woke up at five. Five. So like I'm sleeping like a baby, but I'm not like feeling like I'm well rested and energized. I'm like, where the fuck's my coffee still? And I don't have that.

And then, you know, going through work, you have nothing to do. So, I mean, at work stuff, it's actually awful because there's these tasks. I need to get down like menial tasks and coffee would get me through it. Yeah. And with no coffee, I'm like one page. I'm like, fuck. Okay. Next page. Like it just sucks. Like all I'm just saying is that this whole thing, like you might be feeling

like, oh, I'm a human being and I feel like shit. I was working. You have nothing to do. Yeah. That's so good. What do you think about what Eric just said there? I think it's it's really clear like to me. I think those are his subjective feelings.

Not that's not objectively true. I think I think objectively less productive at work and objectively having less fun.

What I'm most curious about is that will that change over the next.

We have eight more days. It's your experience. It's your experience is first three days is very hard, right? So you you have nothing to do. You aren't able to do the things you want to do. And all those things suck. And it's been raining in San Diego, which is super rare. And you're sitting at home. And I think that arguably, like everyone's experience with dopamine is very different. So I think that you are having an experience that ultimately even in the end, all of us will have a very different experience. We won't all walk away being like that was net positive or net negative or I'm going to change this and change that. But in general, like the things you're experiencing are super normal.

Like there's nothing abnormal about what you're experiencing. I would say you're experiencing everything you're supposed to experience

Other than I would be having much more fun if I was doing the things I want to do and I'd be Productive at work if I was doing the things I would in the ways that I would normally do them. Okay, but

Okay, but this is no different than you like like I'm using extreme example Imagine you are addicted to meth you literally cannot get your work done without meth and we were like Eric You got to lay off the meth for like at least 14 days and you're like fine I'm gonna do it and in day three you're like this sucks I can't get any work done because I don't have my meth to get my work done. We're like, yeah Yes, the point is enjoy these three days. It's to hopefully get to like a better end state like it sucks It's gonna suck. It's supposed to suck I don't think it's like the normal state for humans to wake up in the morning after sleeping and be like I Can't do anything until I have like a joke my body full of

Stimulants sucks. It's let's just talk about that example like the inability to do something during these first three days Absolutely makes sense to me. It's like I had a pounding headache the first couple days because I've been drinking coffee for 18 years straight literally every single day except one break that I had and that was like one time thing and I was like Yeah, I went right back to it. So like huge headaches huge withdrawal from this drug tons of side effects and then I'm trying to work and I can't get it done at The speed and level that I could before I'm not as focused as I was. I mean that makes complete sense I'm coming down off a drug like that I'm handicapped off of like I just can't accomplish anything without caffeine makes sense. So it's gonna take time For that drug to sort of withdraw from my body my body to reset to find a new homeostasis Stabilize and then to understand how to be productive Without this like outside force and I think there are other forces that would actually once my body goes into a sort of calmer More homeostatic state like what would happen just having a little sea salt would give me energy Probably because my body is now sensitive again like back at like a normal baseline level Which is what I a lot of people do by the way you wake up pound some sea salt water Good to go. Like your whole body feels like electricity is flowing through. It's amazing Or like maybe I switched to having like in the future. I'm already planning like okay, this has sucked But like what if I just start drinking like white tea green tea or like decaf coffee For that second coffee instead of having two coffees a day. Maybe I'm having too much caffeine for me I think that's what I'm realizing. I'm like if my body is reacting this way this severely that means I'm having too much coffee

So okay, so coffee is a good example I like that and I agree with you that it's good to cut out things, like I like cutting out booze I like cutting out nicotine. I like cutting out coffee There's a moment so we celebrated New Year's together Nick was in the mountains But we celebrate New Year's together in the following morning when I woke up. I was excited to watch Premier League soccer I was like, oh cool. This is what I want to do. And then I was like oh, no day one Instead I sat there and read a book and I had less fun than I would if I was watching Premier League soccer soccer and that like, that is just like lame, like I didn't get anything more productive done or like it wasn't like a net benefit, it was just like, this is a lamer version

of fun.

So instead, I think Eric still thinks that the fastest supposed to be fun. No, I'm trying to think that this thing is supposed to be in the withdrawing and I'm getting negative results.

You're wanting to be better than I'm getting result. You're wanting the benefit during the process. I just want the benefit now.

I don't want to the benefit. Now. that some of this stuff is on par with cutting out caffeine like not watching Premier League soccer I don't think is like the same drug stimulant that I need you know like I think

that would just be fine to watch in the morning well I mean it's like the conversation we had on New Year's Eve right we were discussing like the the dopamine actual like this is this is meant to be a what was the fucking hour-long debate we were having about oh it was Jaco's video that we did an episode on right Jesus so that was the whole thing it was like it's not this or that it's earning the dopamine right so like maybe in the past you would have just woken up easy I earned this and you take it but it's just this drug and it's just like the ability to sit back and watch sports and relax but you haven't actually done something to tell your body or your mind like this is something that I've earned this is a reward because the rewards are everywhere The rewards are constantly everywhere and we're so rewarded out all over the place that we don't even know what it is to feel the desire for reward because desire equals I got it. Like immediate gratification in every single way. You don't have to earn anything in life anymore. I think that's the point of the detox. I'm going to teach myself to get back to a baseline where when I do something that gives me dopamine, it's because I've earned it and I don't just get it, you know, tap, you know, straight line to the vein at any time that I want. I mean, that is the

point of this, right? Yes. This is like the, like you ever go like watch like a beautiful sunset on sunset cliffs and most people are sitting there like, wow. But then like once in a while there's this like five year old kid who's just like screaming because like he can't like have his phone and like watch YouTube for like seven seconds. And that's like the extreme version of it. Like his brain is just so wired to get that hit from this thing that like the basic pleasures of life that forever were like enough for us that like kept us going are now like he there's like no response to them. So he needs like a bigger drug and there's no other way of like resetting that other than

just by like resetting it for a bit, just going to, to zero for a bit and just bringing it down and And if obviously that kid is going to hate it because he's like, wait a second. On the one hand, I had my iPad with all these games on it, and now I have to stare at a fucking sunset, which is very similar to what Eric is saying. He's like, wait, on the one hand, I had the ability to wake up, watch English premiere. Like now I have to stare at a wall with no internet.

So I think these are two different things, actually, because on the one hand, you're saying earn the dopamine, and on the other hand, you're saying no dopamine. So I think like if I were to do a different type of test where I was going to earned my dopamine. I would say something like, Hey, you got to go do an hour's worth of work or you got to go to the gym before you watch English Premier League, not don't watch it. Stare at a wall instead.

No, you're, you're thinking about two different things. What you're saying is a good way to lead your life in general after this, after this, right? Like we want to go back to a life where we do things that are stimulating and that like kind of like excite us for a bit, but we want to figure out how to manage that as humans. So we don't become like slaves to this like easy dopamine. And like I had a very experienced different experience than you. My first day, like I woke up and I felt like really free in a way, I was like, oh, I can't check my phone. I can't lie in bed and scroll Twitter for like two hours because like I'm going to miss I'm going to miss something. Something happened and I don't know what it is. And that's like, this is going to be the thing that makes me like all this money. And I missed it because I didn't scroll for two hours in Twitter in bed. Um, so that was gone and I just got out of bed and I walked and I couldn't do anything. And like my immediate thing was like, Oh, like, I'm going to, I immediately felt free to just do some stuff that I kind of wanted to do, but I don't know.

I felt like, I've been really drawn to the social media has been a big thing and there's a couple of games I got addicted to on the iPad that are kind of intellectual in nature, but they're still traps, right? I just immediately went over to the piano. I learned this song that I've been meaning to finish for literally months. I just knocked it out the first day. Is it the song I want?

No. How far down the list is that song? Coz I'll literally pay you to bring it in there.

Ah. I just need to be reminded of it. I'm just like a creature of habit. I might have texted you about this three or four times. Right, but six seconds later it's out of my brain.

My brain is still, I'm gonna put a sign

next to your piano. No, that would be very helpful actually.

It's a, if you're wondering it's a Ludo Vico Inootie song and it's like my favorite, favorite one and he hasn't played this one yet.

He hasn't learned this one yet. He hasn't learned this one yet.

There's Ludovico, you don't know. Oh yeah, this is a Godi Ludovico song. I had a very similar experience to you, man. Like, I feel amazing. I mean, like, I'm not having fun. I'm not enjoying that I can't have a glass of wine at the end of a very long work day. I'm not enjoying that I don't get to have a cigar this Wednesday when we go out. I'm not enjoying so many, so many things about this. And we should talk about the things we're adding, by the way, into our lives. Like, not just the things that we're cutting, because I know you guys are adding some really, I know Eric's doing some really cool diet things. I know you are too, Nick. But like, for me, it was similar.

It's like, if you think about our normal work day, you're sitting there trying to get work done, and there's a thousand things happening at once, no matter how much you try to safeguard yourself, right? Like, you've got Discord open, you're scrolling through Twitter, your phone is going off with notifications, your computer is going off with notifications, your Slack is going off, the WhatsApp messages. I mean, that list, by the way, I could do it until you get nauseous, right? And that's a normal day. But just simply being off social media for me, the only bad experience I've had in this whole four days, what is today, by the way, yeah, the fourth, was the moment that I spent on Twitter, something fucking triggered me, and I saw some stuff and wanted to get into it, and I was just like, all of a sudden my day started unraveling, it got in my head, I took the thing personally, and then I was like, wait a second. Oh my god, this was my default state, all the time, and my body's having a convulsion to this, get away from it, and I couldn't get away from it, and I wanted to write something, I was like, oh my god, this is exactly what normal used to be like. And that's why I texted you guys, and said I feel like a normal human being now. I feel like I think I didn't say normal because normal could be looked at both ways, could be looked at normal. The irony of the whole thing. I feel like a human being. My natural state is not to have access to all this dopamine all the time. I expect this to be very hard.

I expect this to be boring. I expect to feel intense tugs and desires toward a lot of things that I used to get freely and openly and I believe or believed, make me better or make my life better somehow. But the reality is for me, I'm learning that they don't. And I think by like day seven to 10, I'm gonna learn what are the things that I know I want to keep from this detox? What are the things that I'll find a balanced approach for keeping? So like if I'm off Discord for the most part right now, which is one of my favorite things, I'm like, okay, I'm giving myself 15 minutes a day, 20 minutes a day. Well, what will I do? Maybe in the future, what I'll do is I just won't have it on my phone. Or maybe what I'll do is I'll actually keep this time limit and I'll increase the time limit to 30 minutes a day. And I'll really hold myself to that. Or one decision I've already made, there's no way I'm getting back on Instagram.

It's not happening. Oh, I could, I would never log into Instagram anyways, but like having that off my phone is like, it's just kind of nice that you don't even have to think.

I don't want it, I don't want it on my send.

Zero percent, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero percent. And I used to have these excuses. I make these videos or I want to share the Alfalfa videos or I want to put things in my, who the fuck cares? My life is getting ruined. Like literally it is bad. It's bad. And I would say Twitter is the same. There's no reason why I can't access Twitter and Instagram on a desktop computer when I need to and want to, when it's my intention is to take the time to digest my AI list of people I follow, my crypto list of people I follow right now for 30 minutes, I'm going to do it. It's going to be awesome. I'm going to take notes. I'm going to bookmark stuff. And I have like a cool system for this too already.

Like where I see an article I like, I put it into matter, which is my favorite reading app, put it into matter. Then I send it to my Kindle. And then it's amazing. At the end of the night, I've earned it. I open up my Kindle. I have my essays and articles that I want to read on there with no distractions. You can't do shit on a Kindle other than read something. And that's how I fall asleep at night. And I try to read fiction by the way at night, but like, that's what I mean. If I wanted to reward myself, I don't need to scroll Twitter or Instagram all day to do that. I can go in, be intentional, find the things I want, put them into my system, compartmentalize, and keep it tight and tidy. That's the way I plan to do things going forward.

Yeah, me too. I think that's very good. I'll implement that too. Like the social media thing was never a problem for me.

That was never an issue.

You're more upset about the other stuff. I'm mostly upset just about the, like what you guys would consider fun. Like you like reading more than I do. Like this to me has just kind of sucked. I did it for eight hours. Like. Were they 10 Ks or what'd you read? No, I read fiction. I read a Dan Brown novel. Like, you know, it was a light read. Was that a DaVinci Code guy? Yeah.

It was just kind of fun. It's like you're watching a show almost. Was it good? I never read it. I was reading one called, it's like the fifth one in the series. They didn't make a movie about it yet. I don't think so, but I feel like it was like kind of like a lamer version of what I would actually do for fun. But I was like, okay, well, at least,

this is like somewhat there. Were they 10 Ks or what'd you read?

No, I read. Were they 10?

Fiction. Oh. Like a light read?

Was that a DaVinci Code guy? I've also been very busy with work, so it's been good for me in that way. I'm getting a big, Nick and I were at the office, Nick beat me last night, it was like 7.30, I went home, he was still there. The previous night, I was there until 7.00 again. It's like, I love it!

I mean, what am I gonna go home? What am I gonna go home to fix? And I'm like, I'm gonna go home and cook dinner, which I could do a little later. I'm not gonna watch any TV and not gonna get on my phone.

Makes it so much easier to work. Oh yeah. Yeah. I did a whole bunch of stuff that I like had been procrastinating on forever because like, I couldn't just get like the little, I'm just gonna, it's gonna play this whole, I'm just gonna scroll Twitter for a little bit.

Like you're just like, I may as well do this thing. I grew up there at the lack of caffeine sucks. It doesn't give me the energy I need to break through the wall.

Yeah. That's it. And I know that. Yes. That's it. And I know that I have the stack there and I'm like, all right, here we go. And then I get through like this much of the stack and I'm like, I'm just gonna sit

down. Like it just sucks. What do you think, Nick? Like, how's it been for you? It's been a lot quieter and slower and less intense. Yes. Doesn't it feel like the days are like longer? And yes. And like in a good way. Yeah, I agree. It's, it's much quieter in our house because my girlfriend has kept

the TV off thus far. I don't think that's going to slide much longer, slide much longer. I just have to exit the living room. Yeah. So this is illegal.

Like zero, like noise. Yeah. So this is illegal. Like zero, like noise in the house, which is really nice. And I think she has enjoyed it, um, you know, so far, but I think the TV is going to come back on. You guys built a puzzle. Oh yeah, we, we finished off a puzzle. That was very high quality time. Yeah, it was. I like the puzzles. The man did a puzzle. I like that we did it.

A man did a puzzle. Mh. I like that. We did it together. You should tell her that, uh, my lady is respecting me and not watching TV at all

around me. Wow. Yeah. I mean, so does yes! Wow. Yeah. I mean, so does the, so I think so far to start to fight,

just super disrespectful. Yeah.

and I'm trying to start Wow, I think she deserves a pass. My goal here start some tying.

No, I think she deserves my goal here is to start some relativity.

Oh, man. I'm going to clip this for you, Dave.

Oh, man, let's put this for you, babe. I've been thinking about, you know, on one hand, I'm consuming a lot less information and it feels like a seesaw of like you know I could consume more information but probably have less clarity just throughout the day of like where I kind of fall on things and I'm trying to think of which is better for better decision-making is it less information and higher clarity even though you might miss some edge or some really important thing that happened

it's probably a balance in between what would you consider so important what is

the edge are the edges really real is the clarity really real oh yeah so much clear clarity is so it's hard to not make nine decisions at once yeah yeah And like I've really realized like so when I went to work Monday, I immediately was like, uh, actually no I went to work on Tuesday not Monday, but that was immediately like again and I was like, oh god Like my whole existence actually suck cuz I was

Dog hit you hit you, you know, yeah nuzzle you licked licked me without me

No, I do I just feel like clear and I was like looking while we were I was working for the pod today I was like, oh man, I gotta like reorganize all this stuff I like saw like all the clutter I had and it's like, oh, yeah, my whole process for Gathering and parsing information is so bad. It's just always on always gathering always like I have like 900,000 things and like the inbox that I never go through the bookmarks that I never read I'm just like, oh I gotta catalyze that for later later later, but all I never do is like searching I'm always like hunting hunting hunting hunting and I never like actually like eat the enemy and work

Yeah, I feel like eat the work. Yeah, it's all there

Like you don't need more edge. Yeah, you know, it's a compulsion probably at you know, it's a compulsion We probably yeah it is a compulsion then we absorb enough information But I've used the extra time like spend more time in my investment spreadsheet and my goal spreadsheet Just like we looking at how did I write this out? Can I make this clear? Can I think about all the things that could go wrong in attaining these goals and can I get better clarity on what the priority should be for business and personal? I don't know, I found that time very useful. I enjoy kind of just sitting there and playing through scenarios. It makes me feel a little more confident about my thesis and what I want to do and spend my time on.

And so that's been enjoyable so far. I can't believe how clear I feel. That's the craziest part. So when I did Sober October, just cutting out alcohol, blew me away how much it affected my brain, literally. And by that, I mean more so my mind, my emotional state, regulation, and probably even more sort of clearly and presently was my ability to think clearly. My, like I didn't know there was any fog. There was fog because my baseline improved. Something changed as a result of just cutting alcohol, right? My mind just became more clear. My ability to think, not need to be so compulsive and look at nine things at once, everything just kind of calms down. Now with this, we're too early. It's only three days in.

I would predict by day seven though, by day 10, like the level of clarity and peace of mind that you'll feel is gonna be remarkable if we keep this up because it's not just the lack of alcohol that I already did, but the additive positive things that you guys are doing, cold showers and eating a certain amount of calories and improving your diet. I'm doing early rising, which is making like a fundamental difference. I can talk about that, but also just cutting out. I didn't cut out any dopamine. I didn't cut out anything. I was still doing everything else. We were going to bars. I wasn't drinking. We were doing it all.

So this is gonna be profoundly different. I found something interesting that when you have to abstain from things, whether it's, you know, opening the Twitter app or coffee or nicotine or whatever it is, like you have to observe your feelings over a longer period of time. Cause usually like I want to open up Twitter and you just open it. You don't observe the fact that you had your body, your body reached for something and you just gave it immediately. But like when you observe it, all these things have a pattern in common, which it reaches a quick peak. And that's usually when you give your body what it wants. And then it cycles away. And I think the most illuminating part is that it always cycles away. Whether you want a cup of coffee right now, like whether it's three minutes or 30 minutes, it does go back and you like completely forget about it. I think it's really powerful to like be able to observe that most things that you want, they have this like cyclical movement, organic movement.

It's super interesting and unless you've been sitting here recording a podcast, staring at a wall of booze for a while. I'm sorry. Why are you triggered?

I'm sorry. Why are you triggered? Can I say something?

Honestly, can I say something? Honestly, I mean this like sincerely, and this is not performative. Like I mean this sincerely. I feel awful. Like my, like, like this clarity you speak of, I have fog. I have like it just, everything everything's bad, like everything you're saying that you're getting good. Mine's bad. You sound like you're really addicted. You sound like you're suffering. I just am not, like nothing is going well.

Wait, wait, wait.

Just am not. But don't you think this is a sign

that there is something that you need to or something that You need more of this, or I'm just a bad version of myself. So like, I don't know if that's like more is better. Like is that better? Like, I don't know. I don't think so.

don't you that if you like dependencies in general? or like not good.

Yes. And can I ask you, do you think you're compartmentalizing the enjoyment factor of it. That's part of it. That's part of it. I mean, if you section that off. Yeah. Just like even just straight

world of it. That's part of it. That's part of it. If you get just like even just straight look at like I can't focus. I'm just not motivated.

I just am performing poorly. Yeah, I mean, you're also you're also on day four, like they recommend doing this for like 90 days. What 12 is like the minimum 12 is like the

rare minimum. I don't know. Bare minimum. I don't think on anything. Like, can you send like the breakdown of like, I need to see like a dopamine detox. Yeah. I mean, there's There's not like an official...

There's not like an official middle associate. People have versions of them.

I would like to see like what level two is. I'm ready for level two. Like I came in here? I came in here.

Ready to... Like I came in here. I came in and read her to like, tell you guys that I'm done doing this. Because it's, it's like, no it's not,

it's like not serving, Is the flag being lifted?

No, I'm willing to, no, I'm willing to do it to the commitment that I made, but like, I just want to let you guys know that it's like this is not serving me and I don't like

it. It's not serving me.

I'm willing to do it. I'm not one of those Jack Butcher, uh, like designs where it's like, you know, benefit below par. And then later on it comes up after.

I say, I feel like the very fact that you think that I'm like day four, you're supposed to be like feeling good and getting something positive out of it is like evidence of like just how chronic like you've seemed like I have to do this. I have to do this. I do. And then when I don't do it, it sucks and I don't want to do this at all anymore because I don't feel good. Like it just feels like you do have some compulsions or like addictions, whatever they may be that all do. Yeah. Well, I mean like I, I sure sure as fuck do. I cried out for coffee three times.

things we all do. I cried out for coffee three times in the office.

Couple of things. Like, one, I commend you for doing it when you hate something so much.

And if you want to quit, if you want to quit. It's not a hate. It's like I'm worse. Like, yeah, I want to be the best version of myself. And I think that you're suffering. I feel like I'm getting worse. It's not even a suffer. It's just like, I'm getting worse. The best version of myself, and I um, you're suffering. That's not good.

You're getting worse. You're getting worse. Because you're going through

with get Rowles. No.

Like my performance as an individual is not going up going. I don't know.

Work. Work just like coffee. No, just like, I'm just not doing well.


Like, I mean, we all would be in that boat. Like I talked about how I can't get shit done to the same level. Thats what I mean.

But that's what I mean. But I agree.

Yeah, it's just a lack of caffeine. Can I ask a clarifying question about our experiment? Yes in regards to coffee Of course, can I have decaf coffee? I this is a good question. That is a good question actually is Your brain could get fooled with the smell the temperature the taste that it is receiving dopamine

But there is no caffeine. Yeah caffeine is only half of the reason I drink coffee

The other part is the love for oh, I'm doing just for the oh, I'm doing just for the I do it for the caffeine But I think there's also like this performative thing for me where I realize once I'm drinking it It's like oh now it's like work time and now you're gonna go get shit done. It's like Pavlovian in a way. Yeah, I think

Pods and I wonder can I can I drink them?

I think in our basic bitch detox it's fine But if you were gonna do like the hardcore one I would say it's not because like there's like some habit loop impulsive thing there definitely like when you're going like really hardcore you're trying to hurt yourself like a not just like the dopamine stuff but like just the whole habit loop entirely and I feel if you just insert like a substitute thing in for a bit there's still an element of it there

the physiological part is interesting cuz I think I text you guys I find myself opening my phone and scrolling through pages of apps and There's a physiological thing where my body goes on auto. That was the first two days. I'm still doing it.

Well, really helps by the way was whoever in the discord reminded me that like setting your phone to grayscale is a thing was like life changing. Here's Jordan. Thank you, Jordan. I mean, like, like, literally look at my phone now my brain goes, Oh, and I put it back. And it's, it's so good. And I, I think what Jordan, I'm kind of doing what you did, but not exactly. So like, I like to drink wine before I go to bed, like all the time, not a great habit, love doing it, makes me feel great. I'm all wound up or whatever. I like, just, I substituted the wine for something else, not like non-alcoholic wine, but I found this like a mushroom Reishi hot cocoa from like four Sigmatic makes it, and it's just like, like kind of like very low sugar, like, you know, dark chocolate, hot chocolate with like Reishi, which supposedly helps you go to sleep. And I just started doing that before I went to bed and like, my brain was fine. It's like, Oh, you're kind of doing the thing. I'm still in the loop.

So I'm like kind of okay.

The one thing I was worried the most about, which has been easier is like not having something to sleep to like audio wise, like you got to set that gift, which I used until New Year's Eve night is amazing. It's like a little, uh, what do you call it? Like a sleep headband that hasn't, uh, cushioned earphones in it. Yeah. So you can, yeah, you can listen to something while you fall.

Yeah. What do you call it?

Like, a headband, Bluetooth earphones. Yeah. You can listen to something while you fall asleep. The true addict. Yes. Yes.

For the true addict. He's made for me, you enabler. Um, but I was, and I was worried about not being able to fall asleep with it. So I was, I'd been meditating every night just right before bed. And it's not been an issue because, well, I have time, you know, that scrolling time would probably be, it's getting replaced with meditation and, uh, yeah, mind is quieter for go to bed. It falls asleep like a baby now. Yeah. So the more resistance you can replace it with other stuff like you're saying

for me, you can replace it with other, I mean, I want to go to Eric's thing. Cause I think what Eric is going through is super interesting. And by the way, so first of all, commend you for sharing that. If you want to tap out by all means, tap out. Um, but I commend you for, for sticking it through the more resistance I feel. The more I step into it harder. So everything that you're describing is also what I feel, but I just have sort of, I think tweaked my mindset around it to say that's good, kind of like when I lift a heavy weight or I'm sore and I'm like, this sucks, it doesn't feel good. I can think of other examples, but like it's a pain and it doesn't feel good. And I'm definitely not a better version of myself today, but I keep telling myself that this is good for me and that in the end it'll be better.

That's where I'm at. I think I'm where I'm at. I think that I, thank you for sharing that. Cause that's what I'm literally sitting here wondering myself. It's like, am I just telling myself that I'm going to be better? Even though I'm worse.

You kind of have to in this situation, because again, like back to the meth withdrawals. Like you're gonna tell yourself because you're addicted. I'm such a better person. When I'm on Mac like I get everything done. I'm happy I cleaned the room. You know, like everyone who has an addition goes no I don't have a problem. right? No, I don't have a problem yet. Tell me I have a

right? No, I don't have a problem. You tell me I have a problem, The better analogy was like the i banker who just kind of gets used to doing Coke in the bathroom like in the middle of the end and she finally does it three times a day and then pretty soon he's like I suck without my cocaine in the bathroom I can't

can't get any work done, can't get any work done. And so obviously that person not doing that is gonna hate it and suck. But the other thing too is I think mindset, like maybe the reason I'm enjoying and looking at it this way personally more is because going into it, I was excited. And like I wanted to do it even though it was like, it was almost like an embracing the suck kind of mentality. I think I just forced myself to be like, this is gonna be awesome, even though I know it sucks. So I think there is a lot of that going on is like, how are, what is the story we tell ourselves about this? Because that's probably gonna dictate the experience

for a huge part of it. Are we gonna, so this is a day four into it. So we're gonna wait till this is done and then do like a full recap on it.

Are we gonna touch on this again? Touch on this again? I don't know, should we? Because it takes a while for these life episodes

to come out, come out. I don't know if we feel like some new stuff happened next week, we'll do a little quick popping. We definitely should... I don't wanna do another one. I don't wanna do a full...

After the fact like maybe a week. I don't wanna do another one, I don't wanna do it again. But after the fact like maybe a week after. Yeah, I wanted it.

I wanna do a recap. Yeah, oh I wanted, I wanted to recap and I wanna do like kind of moving forward. Maintenance mode yeah. I wanna cover it. What was this all just stupid I don't know maybe?

Moving forward maintenance mode yeah.

I don't wanna take away things. Maybe I want it topped myself and we'll change our path.

I'm not curious about what we're all say we're gonna keep. I'm curious like seven to 14 days after the end of it.

What do we actually...? What do we actually do? We're gonna have an accountability show like 60 days from now. That's more useful to go with other people. I feel like we should have an accountability show

like 90-ish now. I kinda wanna go like 60 days from now.

That's more useful. I feel like we should have, you know? Kinda wanna do the write after talk about how do you build the maintenance program? The integration. It's kind of like, after you do mushrooms. Right, like, I want that as well.

The integration. It's kind of like after you do mushrooms. Right. Yeah, that's how they measure the efficacy of mushrooms in the mystical experience, remember I was telling you guys it's like two months after they check-in with you? How is your experience two months after? What did you integrate? You're two months, Pat. You're well, two months. Oh yeah, yeah.

You had your check-in? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You had your check-in? Yeah. Okay.

Still mystifying? Yeah, it was all a sharing. was all sham. I'm well integrated and and I redid them you know sort of mystical questionnaire and it was the same it wasn't any different two months later which is great crazy that's good right hi if it's good okay yeah yeah I agree we should do that that would be valuable I would love to hear like what so what are some of the things you guys are adding so one for me you guys know I'm a

notorious night owl know Eric knows this and that's good right hi if it's good right

now yeah man I'll be up at like 1 a.m. sending off alpha text yeah I know I know

6 a.m. yeah and you're like up three hours later yeah I know I know 4 in the

morning the other day yeah you got up before yeah you got up before in the

morning, huh? Yeah. Yeah. I just like went to, yeah. I just like went to bed at like 8 30. And I was like, yeah, I'm tired. And then I fell asleep and I woke up at 4 30.

Like, Oh, yeah, that's weird. So for me, it's all, it's, it's usually, it's always been late night college. Got all my shit done late all my life. I've been like at odds with the hours that society has laid out for. Just literally in a perfect world. I would go to bed at two and wake up at 10 like that's my ideal sort of schedule maybe one to nine and so that's my ideal what I normally do is like just suffer and it's like a roller coaster some mornings I get up early some mornings I get up later like 8 a 30 and I just have to suffer through the day when I wake up that late right what I did when I started this detox was for some reason this like lightning bolt hit me it was like I remembered the book early rising by Benjamin Franklin the full title is like early to rise makes a man healthy wealthy and wise everyone knows that famous saying I've read the book now this is the second time I'm reading the book it's just a PDF that you can find on Google of the book I can't even find the physical book anywhere you can find the e-book online I threw it on my Kindle I've been reading it it's obviously like written in Ben Franklin English from a long time ago and it's actually a pretty if you're a Christian you would enjoy this book because he was very Christian and there's a lot of religious not even undertones like just direct sort of messages but the book is so good the first time I read it it changed my life I started getting up at 5 a.m. every single day and I that lasted for like nine months I think for some reason there was a trigger event that caused me to fall off and I've been off ever since but this book is phenomenal if you need motivation to like wake up early and why he goes through what it does for your body what it does for your mind what it does for your wallet and your business what it does for your soul and yourself like every facet is affected by it and yeah I'm super pumped I've been waking up early and I love it

I'm gonna keep waiting really it really is so optimal I feel like I don't do anything productive after like 5pm. I never do. Like it's just so if I go to

bit of two it's just literally seven hours of nonsense that I never do. Like

could have. I think it's the big domino in life because if you get ahead and at all and if you can get a few hours ahead of other people before all the chaos starts to hit you you can manage it and stay calm I've noticed like you don't have to be so reactive but if you get up late or what you think is you know what most people think is early as late like according to him he's like it's it's five is like ideal you know six is like you're cutting it seven is your your that's the absolute bed he shares a bunch of different examples but like nine or ten you know gets like six to seven hours he says like seven hours is good like get your seven hours and get to work and just like Marcus Aurelius did in his you know Journal and meditations like what is this fucking thing about laying in bed all morning and it being all cozy and warm and all this stuff he's like you're alive like get after it go get stuff done like go build something go do something all those just so many examples like go z better so

good exactly it's like this desire we have it's actually dope that's I was I was so cozy yesterday it was so cold now yeah I don't put the heat on ever I I refuse to.

Especially in the summer. It was so cold out. Yeah, when it's cold and wet and rainy, it's the last thing you wanna do. But he just talks so much about this magical air that exists in the morning and how it's, like, from a health perspective, he goes into the science of the air in the morning and how it's better for you to breathe. What? Yes.

That sounds like, sounds like, like, Like 1700s.

Like bro. Like 1700s.

Like bro, like a 1700s. Like a 1700s.

That sounds like, he probably thought, like, putting leeches on sick people was good too, you know? Let's not forget. The doctors back then, they had, like, didn't they have, like, the big, like, weird, like, parrot bill or crazy, crazy shit? I don't know. I don't know if I wanna take any science advice.

It's good too. I don't forget. The doctors back lower too. Crazy. I don't know. No?

You don't trust the ancients? He flew a kite in the, like a thunderstorm. Did he survive? I mean, barely. Okay.

He's fine. So anyway, that's something I added.

Did you guys add anything to kind of wrap some alfalfa? Did you wrap some alfalfa? I guess the meditation just kind of had a necessity because I was nervous about not being able to fall asleep and that, that's so far, but it's only three nights in.

So who knows if it'll continue. I did the sunlight, early morning sunlight. And. That's a good one actually. You know, they, they, meaning like the, the experts, the experts say that that helps your circadian rhythms.

And I've found that I'm, I'm sleeping amazing. And that's a good one. Actually.

But the sunlight needs to hit your eyes, right? Like no, no sunglasses out walking.

You need to, I'm walking early, early, I'm walking early, early at the sun. Yeah. So I don't know if, I don't know if it's correlated. I think it's mostly just cause I'm so fucking bored that like, I just go to bed.

So I don't know.

Just go to bed.

The one, the one joy is the one, the one joy is the one. That's good. I already told you my main thing was my, I've loved my little hot coke, Reishi hot cocoa nightcap and it feels good. It soothes my need for like routine and at least placebo puts me asleep. So I'm a, I'm a fan, but everything else, I've just substituted good stuff that I already have plenty of space and time to do. And I'm just doing those, just doing more of all the things I should already be doing. Like I'm not bored. I'm just like, You're being a normal human being. Yeah. I have like stuff I should be doing. That's more productive. That would be better for me as a human that like compounds in life, like, you know, like 40 years from now, like I'm probably going to be happy at like all the hours I've put into practicing music.

Cause that's compounded versus like, I'm not going to be sitting there like, man, I really wish I played that little game with the birds, like an extra 75 hours. It's just, that's the way it is.

So I'm, I'm good. It feels bored. I'm just like, you're being a normal human being. Yeah. Let's great. Piss the rap. I liked it. Steven sent me the dope main matrix please. Cause I might be turning into a monk. Okay. Well, we look forward to the only one on the phone. All right.

It'll be good. All right.

Peace. Okay. Well, we look forward to you.