107. Why Would Microsoft Invest $10 BILLION in OpenAI, Reindeer Dick, & Ozone Recovery - Transcripts

January 16, 2023

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Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, degens and degenets to another episode of the Alfalfa podcast. We are four radically moderate entrepreneurs and investors swimming in the messy gray ocean, serving up alpha in money, politics, and life. We are Nick or Bonnie, Eric Johansson, Steven Cesaro, and I am Arman Asadi. All links at alfalfapod.com. Make sure to hit subscribe wherever you are listening or watching on YouTube and follow us on the socials. And most importantly, hop in our discord to join the community for the after party and

more alfalfa. When does this chat GPT for when is it going to be released? The new version.

It doesn't say the new version. It doesn't say ball.

I know is 100 are we diving in really really in parameter serious 100 trillion. You want me to remanufacture my surprise?

But wait, are you serious? Are you serious? 100 trillion? What does that even mean? 100 trillion? What? Well, so the current will show the current hundred seventy five billion, I think, yeah. What is parameters? That's like the inputs it uses to give you its response. Yeah.

So they're going to multiply that by 500.

Yeah. Yeah. 500 X. And it's probably like exponential in its effect.

It's like so comprehensively because it's like so comprehensively because okay, so first the first time that there was a rumor that there was going to be a hundred trillion parameters in GPT for and there was going to be this order of magnitude upgrade because there was there was one between GPT two and three when that came out that it was potentially going to be this hundred trillion number. Sam Altman immediately came out on Twitter and was like, No, that's not what's happening. And he just took all the air out of the rumor and the hype. It's so fascinating what these guys.

Wasn't that rumor just like three weeks ago or something? It's pretty recent. So They came back out—

Who brought this news out? Was it official news? No. Are you logging into Twitter?

Yeah how do you get into Twitter? Do you have Twitter on your phone? Cause my friend sent it to me. Okay.

Still how do you have twitter on your phone?

Cause my friend sent it to me. Okay.

It's still how do you view it? I really do have the receipts for this.

I really do.

I don't even I don't even I don't even open the browser look at his eyes dilated brows look at his eyes dilated

He gets the dopamine fat brain from brain from Twitter. This is from this is via Simon Huyberg

Okay, okay. Okay. I thought you were talking about an official announcement. This has already been in a rumor. Is it a rumor? Yeah, this has been a rumor for a long that's been debunked by Sam Ohman But then other people think he's just playing I thought you were saying he came back and was like no This is what we're doing. Well, how important is that? Like is that very important? Well, it depends there's different ways for this sort of

Next iteration to be valuable to people. I don't know how to be more more like this is already been by Sam Ohman

People I'd rather be more like time relevant than like more

parameters from like maybe years ago stuff and it from maybe a year ago stuff and it well, the other big thing is that They're doing like an API. I guess that's like super easy to access for like basically any developer Like you don't need to have like any sort of crazy Machine learning training to be able to you can do that now

You're training to be able to you can do that now use Python and access the API

Pythons a really simple. No, this is supposedly just like okay

Like this company has put allegedly in front of everything I say today. Okay, I like this company It's company seems pretty valuable

Before we get to value one one thing that's interesting is I can tell you it seems they're talking about I'll pull Steven. I open Twitter in my browser without logging in. Yeah, you motherfuckers. You guys are all cheating

You're all cheating in here

You guys are all cheating you're all cheating in your having caffeine guzzling sandbag I will not be I will not be re-elected by you fraud side of the table as much of an

addict as Eric so yeah yeah not even going it gets pretty hard when you don't

I don't know what his role is at OpenAI, but he just posted that we're starting to think about how to monetize. Early thinking, nothing official to share. Our goal is to continue improving and maintaining the service. Monetization is one way we're considering to ensure long-term viability and we want to chat with folks for 15 minutes to get some feedback. The big news is monetization in some format is coming and in general I think they're really

taking this more of a for-profit angle than previously expected on some of these products, which is cool.

Did he get into the weeds on the monetization? That's it. Just fill out this form to talk to us, to tell us how we can monetize, what ways can

we make chat GPT available for you and it's worthwhile to ask the freaking Siri, ask chat

GPT. So Dolly 2 is usage-based, you have like tokens and I think right now the DaVinci version

that you can access via the API is also usage-based, there's like tokens. When you said that to me I started getting like some like futuristic dystopian like movie vibe. Like life is so grand if you have access to the AI where you need tokens and people can't get the tokens. There's tokens man.

Yeah, you don't have the tokens. So I mean I'd imagine they'll probably stick with some kind of usage thing, especially if the business model is like a platform for applications to build on top of. If it is that, yeah, if it is that, yeah, in particular, yeah. How sad would you be if they're like, eh, we'll close it off, we're just going to give

it to Microsoft and we're going to take care of it. They would never do that. If they did, it would be like a revolution in the AI space.

People would just like fucking pick some shovels. Chat GPT is within a, I bet there are people that are in love already. For profit. Right? Like, what's that move? I bet you there's maybe. Chat GPT uses AI a few times. It uses like a, it references itself in the first person watches. You've gotten it to do that. Are you just seeing examples? Yeah.

I've seen it when I was asking about a Japanese cities to visit. I bet they're for profit already.

For profit. Like, right? Like, what's that move?

I bet, I bet you there's when I asked the same line of queries. Yeah.

Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Did you refuse that? That was one of the problems. Oh my God. What is Takayama? I want a traditional city. Yeah, of course you stop looking at my conversations with my AI.

Well, I'm never going to show you guys my convoluted. I never going to show you guys my conversations either. So did you have any? Yeah, no, no, it wasn't, it wasn't freaky.

Don't worry. I was talking to dead philosophers. Who?

Did it. It's a surveys. Yeah. It's a surveys. I was like, I got it. I have it. I have a social network. I know. Right. who are you talking to? Well, in particular, the man that took up most of my 90 minutes that evening was Spinoza. So I'm not familiar.

No, don't know him. Um, yeah, I think in many ways he's the godfather of modern philosophy. Yeah. He didn't mention nearly as much. He's

a Dutch Dutch Dutch Jew. I'm not familiar. He didn't mention nearly as much Dutch, Dutch

Jew. He died in 1677. Yeah, damn. So you're chatting with him? Yeah, chatting with him for a long time. How do I chat with like Socrates? How do you prompt it? Yeah. So the prompt was first, one of my favorite books is called The Ethics. It's by Spinoza. And I would say a lot of my like personal spiritual frameworks come from Spinoza. Um, he created what became known as the idea of pantheism, which I mentioned to you guys in some of our talks, right?

So I was like, Hey, are you familiar with the ethics? And, you know, judge was like, yeah, fuck yeah, let's talk. So I was like, what do you want to know? You know, I was like an eager friend, like you're the top 10 things. And I was like, okay, let me think how I want to do this. And so I started the conversation by saying, I picked a random number. I think it was 21. I was like, give me the 21 most important and insightful highlights from this book that a person would need to know to become deeply familiar with this work. And I did that and it was really good. As someone who's read it, I was like, okay, that's those are really good highlights. It's like perfect sort of synopsis and sort of chapter break down, right? And then based on each of those things, and what I would do is I would not allow my screen to go down to the bottom.

I was not. So so what I was doing is I saw the 21 things. I'd read number one, I go, what's a deeper question I have about number one? And I'd ask the question, but then I wouldn't scroll down to read it. I would go down to number two. So I was basically opening up a tree. Visually in my head, I was creating the tree and I was opening up branches. And then when I'd open up a branch, enough branches, I'd start scrolling down. Then once I arrived at that like larger branch, I'd typically ask another like three questions based on that one branch of knowledge. And I just kept doing this

and it, and it went, I could have gone hours, man, hours. Did you prompt it? Did you prompt it to

speak to you in, in Spinoza's, like as Spinoza or were you talking to it? Eventually. Yeah. After first it was just like, give me the summary. And then it was like, um, at one point I, but I would change it. I'd be like, um, give me Spinoza's advice in the form of advice of a father giving his advice to his teenage son about, and the question was actually something we've discussed on the pod a lot. It was like, to what degree should a person care about the, the sort of state of the world versus the state of the home? I was like, tell me as if you're like my father. Oh, what did Spinoza tell you in that moment? It was a perfect answer. It was just like ignorance of what is going on in the state of the world is very detrimental. As detrimental, if not more detrimental than knowing what's going on in your own home.

But to allow it to take over the mind and to take your eye off, what's going on in the home is like, that's, you gotta avoid that at all costs. And then we went deeper into why and how, but basically it was like both. Maintained both, but not, excuse me, I said that incredibly, not at the cost of the home. You know, you got to keep your eye on what's going on in the world, not be naive, but like the home comes first. Yeah. So it was really, it was really interesting. Um, and I went through this exercise of like, what if I just didn't want to be ignorant? What would that cost me? You know, what is the cost of bliss and all these things? It's really good shit. And then went into God, went into the afterlife, went into his thoughts

on the nature of the fabric of reality. I mean, it was good shit. Yeah. You know, what

is the cost? You ask Spinoza if he's seen the good place. I asked him something about modern philosophy. Yeah. For a while I was like, can we, can we sort of debate, you know, your theories versus Alan Watts and a few other philosophers that I started pulling in. There was something I did about like some modern thing that I don't remember. It was, it was good. And the cool thing now with chat kidneys, it's all saved. I was so bummed in those first days that you couldn't reaccess the conversations. No. Oh yeah. So when you log in, because you have to log in all your conversations are saved.

It's not one of the

updates saved. It's not one of the updates on the left side column. Yeah. Yeah, I haven't

used it since we, oh, what what? Oh, what? Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. Oh my God. You see You're thinking? Remember it?

It's too addicting for me, although like hearing you talk about how you had a conversation with a philosopher, I feel like very uncreative.

Yeah, it takes a lot of creativity to get the good prompts out. I think that a lot of people, it's interesting seeing how everyone is using it and how everyone's positioning it. Some people are thinking of this thing as just purely a writing tool. Like I watched the Nerdwriter, one of my favorite YouTube channels of all time, if anyone listening has not heard of Nerdwriter, unbelievable. This guy's a genius and he breaks down art, science, philosophy, he has a cinema background, very, very brilliant guy. He just came out with a book as well. And his whole focus was on the replacement of writing and what this does. And as a creative writer, what's good about this? What's bad about this and sort of the moral grounds for all of this? And then some people look at this as like a research tool. Some people like Nick look at it as like the new Google. They're constantly having it open in a tab and asking it everything all the time.

And I'm looking at it more in terms of like a conversational thing where I just want to, I keep using it in that way that I just described where I go into these deep branched out conversations to extract information that I need that would take me hours to get if I needed to go find

the source.

Cause that's not, cause that's not, that's something that Google can't do now. So that's how I've been using it and I found it more valuable on the third and fourth and

fifth question. Wait, wait. So are you actually not using Google anymore?

You're using chat. I still use it, but like, it just seems much, much more effective to have a mini conversation. Like I was literally trying to find which other than Tokyo, which city I should visit in, in Japan. And so I asked it, give me some cities that are popular and it gave me seven of them. And then I was like, okay, well I'm going in April. So which one is best to go in April? And then it narrowed it down. And then I was like, okay, well what if I wanted to go like to one that's rule and more traditional which city should I go to? And then I was like, what if I'm into art? Which one? That back and forth was way more effective than me having to read like 20 blogs

Yeah, you know have you ever tried prompting it by saying like like asking it what I would think there's a distinction between sort of like the broad data dump of what to do in Tokyo versus like Imagine like there's these like travel bloggers who travel for living and write about it, right? Versus like this is like a travel site that somebody paid a writer to do a write-up on like I wonder if it has the ability to be like, can you talk to me about some of the opinions of Tokyo from Travel bloggers you've traveled. Look, can you like filter it down so that you're getting like this more?

I'm sure you can because you can do that when we were playing around with it. We were like write us write a screenplay between a You know leftist Bernie lover and a Wall Street tycoon and it does that right it does it fine

So I'm sure I can do that but you know, what's interesting is that people keep saying by the way that it's like a sophomore level bullshit this thing is AP college man when it does that when it when it when it takes on that ability to blend voices and Minds and output, you know high school college level grammatically correct writing to me. That's beyond a sophomore I don't know any sophomore in high school that could write in in the form in the voice of Shakespeare or the King James Bible, that's crazy of a single one because it's

Crazy enough single one because it still gets math wrong like basic arithmetic wrong It's math wrong like they be completely incorrect and it says it's correct, then you'd like that's incorrect and then it'll be like Oh, yeah Sorry, like my math is wrong and you're like, whoa like a basic calculator can do this stuff the

The trade-off is interesting though because they had to choose for it to be confident because if it was not then everything it said would Be gray and uncertain and no one would get any value out of yeah I just thought that was one of the things part of the cost that it's just gonna be very wrong and be very certain about things

Yeah, I just I was and I wonder when it does have recent data because right now Google is still getting the monetization part So I just had this conversation with chat GBT and then I'm gonna go Look for hotels on Google and that's where the advertisers actually come into play Those are the intent based searches that advertisers want and pay for But we'll see if they update it with recent data if that changes but for now

Oh my god, we will still collect the bank who will still collect this thing can book travel for me

Bet you again. I mean I bet you it can I mean someone will build that as a service. Yeah, it's that's that's more What's gonna happen is they'll?

They'll they'll build that is a that's that that's that's a billion dollar start. It's that's a billion dollar start

You know AI thing. Yeah, exactly. You know AI thing to do I just paid like I think it was like 250 or 350 bucks for Someone who has who's a travel agent to use my reward points in like an efficient way man If someone they can automate that throw that throw that AI businesses bucket

They can throw that throw that AI businesses bucket. Yeah. Well, tell me about Microsoft Azure

Wait, did you really think that are you trolling us? Don't worry about it

Well, I think they're they're running that that's what this thing is running on is Azure and so, you know Microsoft I think like the Azure Azure Azure. Yeah for sure. It's Azure

Yeah, that's how you say the word a Zuri

New pitch you can charge more if you call it

No stress, who wants an Azure? I don't want that. No, we're actually a jury said Azure Azure Azure Like Azure Azure by John weird name

Well, I think open AI is paying them, you know money to use this they might begin to discount but they they initially invested like a billion dollars into the for-profit company inside the nonprofit and

They invested what another 10 billion and Billy at it. What was the valuation? 29 billion? I was 29 billion

I was it on the whole company Wow. So anyway, they're gonna get that anyway, they're gonna get that own 50% They own 49

They'll own they own 49 They'll own 49 percent but the valuation of the whole business was out at 29 billion. Oh, yeah

Yeah, it wasn't. Oh, yeah, you're right. It wasn't a 20 billion valuation because they already owned X percent. Yeah. Okay previous so They're gonna probably make that back just in fees on Azure over some yeah, they're paying themselves Yeah, it's a money's going right back to them. So Good point. I mean you brought up one Eric to like is this like when Facebook bought Instagram when Google bought YouTube is this Microsoft's moment?

That's what immediately I thought yeah, okay previous. Yeah, they're paying themselves Yeah, it's amazing. That's what immediately I thought of just because those those acquisitions like changed those businesses

In a dramatic way and and Microsoft sort of famously missed out on the entire like web to see my 5% higher to my 5% of Facebook at one point that was like their claim to fame and they just got cash for they missed out

They missed out on hardware. There's like no mobile like I think this my social

But they're still the second largest business in the world Wow despite missing all that like I think this is my social

Social just by nailing enterprise. I think I did a little bit of analysis and At the time of those acquisitions YouTube represented 1% of Google's market cap Instagram represented 1% of Facebook's market cap and

Open AI represents about one interesting 1% of Microsoft's market cap. Yeah, so that's interesting 1% of interesting 1%

Yeah, so last name on Microsoft short Google

Um, I'm intrigued. Yeah, it may be Microsoft could still exist now despite missing all kind of all those mark

Yeah question Would you Deploy this under the Bing brand or would you launch if you're Microsoft? Would you brand are you sure because there are embedded users in Bing and what if those users who use it whether they know it?

Or not, can't you just redirect them like being to me is just synonymous with nope?

I mean, that's how being got all these users. They they bought Toolbars like they installed toolbars on people's computers and that's like the significant majority

Of their user base of their user base. Do people still use like Internet Explorer?

Yeah, yeah, the user base skews like really old doesn't it for being it is because they install it is because they install Yeah, random like home page things that redirect the search because being is one of the very few companies Google doesn't do this But Bing will pay you a rip if you can change someone's default search to Bing. They'll pay your rev share

Google doesn't do that install. Yeah

I think the old people are gonna just pull another one of these like I already learned about this fancy Search engine thing. I'm gonna search for my information the old-fashioned way when I was your age I had to you know pull up Bing. Yeah, click around. I look I like click I like the clicking around it makes me feel like I'm doing so I have plenty of time to work around. Yeah

To work around yeah. It's good I think you do both. I usually like a high low-play like start of something new make Bing better and then verticalize some of these, you know, applications.

You should call it bada bing.

See, already better. Wow, you are great at branding. Thank you. Yeah. Brand yourself right now. What was the other AI thing that we saw? Oh, that do not pay company is going to represent someone in court?

Wait, so brand yourself right now. Wait, so do not pay is a AI-based service that like helps you fight tickets?

No, no, it helps you unsubscribe from like... I don't know what their core business is. I'm pretty sure it is. Would you do a lot of unsubscribing to fighting a ticket? No, no, unsubscribing on your like bills. So they say they're the world's first robot lawyer, and so it could like chat with someone to get you out of your free trials. It was like the beachhead of the business was like, you signed up to these free trials, we'll help unsubscribe you. It could help with like, if you have like a do not mail designation or do not email. It's kind of scary because they're talking about fight corporations sue anyone you want. But essentially what they're doing is they're going to fight these speeding tickets in court using AI by putting one's going to be in person. They're going to put an AirPod in the person's ear so the AI can hear what's going on in court. And then the defendant's supposed to just repeat what the AI is saying.

Give me a offer, I'm pretty sure.

What does it do a lot? Give me a offer, I'm like a million dollars

if he just repeats what the AI says. No, so that is an open offer to someone who is going to be in a Supreme Court case. They said if you're going to be in a Supreme Court case, we'll pay you a million bucks if you say exactly what our AI says.

They open offer. Wow. Wait, so why is this person doing it? Is it a promo as well?

I assume. I doubt it. They just said we'll pay all fees, fines that you'll take. I mean, I'm sure this person's like, sure, whatever, you're going to pay my ticket. Yeah. I think one is in person and one's over Zoom. But this is fascinating that the AI is going to know that the bailiff is talking, when the judge is talking, when the prosecutor is talking, it'll be surprising to see if it can pull that off flawlessly. And when it doesn't, what's the backup plan?

It's probably so procedural. It's like easy for that because it'll probably just be repeating the same lines

that it's already prepared for. Kind of, yeah, that kind of knows that the preamble of like how things start off

and it maybe identifies the voices and then. It's remarkable where the tech is at and it's already taking over these components. So unexpected. Some of these components. Unbelievable. Yeah, law is crazy.

Like a courtroom, one that might be the perfect usable. Yeah crazy. Like a courtroom might be the perfect use case because they don't, they like label everything. Now we begin our cross examination.

And it's like That's a good point.

The perfect use case because don't they like- But you have to teach it something like you were saying you have to upload evidence. So one part that's a little more complicated, and I think it's a very important part when you're using the API is, how do you teach the AI large amounts of data, or how do you have it ingest large data? Because you can't have it read all the data every query you make it. It has to synthesize it so that it only scans it once, summarizes it, and only accesses it if it really needs it.

So I don't know, that's where software engineers could see this working in contract law or something, right, where there's not a lot, like a murder case, it could be a little tricky, I guess.


Upload the contract. But some of the areas of the law that I think are kind of like in a way formulaic, but just such a tangled web of just like use a normal person could never represent yourself.

Like that would be interesting. They already say they can be used for canceling services subscriptions, canceled timeshares, break my lease, breach of contract, like you mentioned, Harley's negotiation, appealing speeding tickets, appealing toll booth tickets. So this will be interesting to see how this company does over time. Wonder how it performs.

Kinda one for Ryan. Wonder how it kinda one for Ryan. What else do you think this could start to apply to? Stuff like- I mean, this is a little Unsuspected, right?

Yeah, very well. Because you're talking about like a human has to show up in court and it's still helping.

And it's very, it's a meticulous process, right? There's so many layers to the law.

It's difficult. I just got a little ticket.

Should I try it? Yeah. I mean, I think it's pretty awesome because most people can't afford a lawyer. So if you're saying like, yeah, that's a good point. You could roll in court with a right air pod and like have a five times better shot, maybe even get it kicked out on like a technicality, which a good lawyer would probably do in the first place. Like that's pretty amazing that, you know,

people who can't afford.

Yeah, this is the merge I'm excited about. Everyone's so excited about the Youth Merge. This is my merge. The AI merge engineer. The AI human merge, man. The merger die.

It's a way bigger merge.

It's the singularity. Is this singularity? It's not the singularity, but it's it's the pre-singularity merge. Designer pod in your ear. I don't think this singularity happens

until the merge happens.

It's an air pod in your ear.

I'm not like buying a car, I mean negotiating

umbleOsheetsin sto in person when they buy a car, I never do negotiate over email really?

You don't buy it. Never deals, deals signed. You don't buy it.

Never deals before you show up. But yeah, I guess I could do the,

wait, what do you mean? Walk me through that. Like you already picked the car and then you'll email it.

You know what the car you want. You know what the car you want.

And then you just, you just clearly didn't buy a car in 2021.

Like this poor guy over here. I, let's see, I've purchased three cars in the last couple of years. None of them for myself. I still have a fucking 12 year old car, but, um, yeah, so you just pick, pick car you want,

find anything who has a car, 500 miles, private party or dealer.

So both, so both situation, both, and then just email them. I'll let them play against each other. I feel like it's like, uh,

pit them up against each other. I feel like where you put them all like in a CC. Why not? Why not?

You do. Why not? Why not? Why not? You do. I'm like, Hey guys, uh, this guy says it's 44,200,

hate you.

You haven't put them in the same email thread. Why not? Have you? No, I get the why not. Did you do that? Yeah. Yeah. Like did you, that, did that happen? Do you have the receipts?

Why not? I know. Have you? No, I get the why not. Yeah. Did you do that? Yeah.

Break follow my vote, 100%. Cause I would love to see that,

they don't. They don't. That's serious. They don't. They don't, they don't, they don't see they don't, CC the other, like the other person wasn't on it. See no, they were a CC but they, uh, they didn't include the other person. Okay. And the response they don't really have the effect that you would think it would, like whether battling out actually just as like a fucked up kind of

communication thread. You're walking in wasn't on it. They,

No, they were a CC, but they didn't really have the battling out action.

You're walking in show up. Hey, Bill. How are you doing? I got the cash. Yeah, I got the cash. Uh, you got to kick the tires. Yeah, you're going to be like a good tire. Wait, what was that? I didn't see that in the video. Gotta find the scratch. I wouldn't want to negotiate with you. You'd be a nightmare.

Be fun. Show up my chest here a little, you know, open a couple of buttons. Yeah.

Walking in show up. Hey, Bill, your jeans. Yeah, you're going to be like a good

tire. Gotta find the scratch. Are you, are you, are the Persians at a very young age? Like you're like two years old and then like you're there. There's eight

years old. Please mom, any food? And they're like, two things, two things you get. They seem a little desperate. You get first thing you get though is the doodle tallah. Do you know about that? What is that? I don't know about that. I know about that. Eric knows all about that. That's the golden dicks, Steven.

You don't know about the golden dicks? What does it have I don't know?

Real phrase, you know, just a real, real phrase. You know, just, you know,

just real, real phrase when you're bored. From the moment you're born,

your family tells you that you have the golden dick born.

It's only for the oldest first-born male. I have a golden dick. I've been told that my whole life explains. What's Over the dinner table. So the way I'm saying it sounds very inappropriate. It's it's like cute It's like you you have the golden penis. So it's not dick. I'm I'm I'm making it more. I'm I'm sort of Farsi it's not like as like a direct it is it's like literally like oh cute little boy golden penis Like over and over and over again just gets in your head. This is the most Untranslatable thing I've ever I've ever seen Eric. Can you help the rest of the world interpret this? Like what do you make of it?

Is the younger no, I'm just wondering what some on thinks when you're the golden dick. I think everyone hears it

I think everyone hears it. I think every kid hears it any boy. I think so. Yeah, okay every boy

Yeah, why do you find that weird? Yeah, that is it any boy

Okay, why do you find that weird yeah Lord, that seems weird

It's very weird. It's as weird as it gets

Do you think it has like a an impact on how you view yourself omits the world totally


Totally. Yeah, cuz you're the golden dish. Yeah. Totally. Yeah cuz you're the golden. Yeah

Yeah, I mean zephi or the ego

Or this of the ego or the Sun or you go it helps the confidence you just explained every prison man...

It's like it helps the confidence.

Oh my god, but they'll never tell you you know it's a little secret it's like oh my god it's like what you don't understand is I have a golden dick in every negotiation that's in the back of their minds yeah.

Yeah, just always like where is there like a swagger repository somewhere? Yeah, their moms just inception them. They like dunk you in a bucket of birth when you're like four and it's incredible. I've never seen such collective confidence.

Collective confidence. Yeah, it's it's where birth. Yeah, it's it's it's unbelievable.

Yeah, I don't know how we got and white BMW. Yeah, I don't know how we got and white BMWs and Gucci loafers. You got to have gold necklace. Yeah. We have a thick course chest here. Not just any chest here. Of course.

Rogue. Yeah, I haven't lasered mine. We haven't lasered mine yet. Let's trim it down. Are you, are, is this okay? Like if you went back to Iran, would they just tell you to leave? Why? Did they check your, do you have you lift your shirt?

Yeah, trim it down. Are you? Did they check your passport?

What is this? Put them in jail. Your papers. Put them in jail.

Your papers. No, they've modernized. They're all on the trim tip. Okay. Yeah. All right.

Let's yeah. All right. Let's go. So weird. Wait till we're actually

drunk and wait till we're actually drunk and doing this.

Oh my God. Speaking of penises. Okay.

Didn't, uh, there's a restaurant called Noma that didn't call Noma used to serve.

I can't wait to see how this gets. They used to serve reindeer penis. They did. Yeah. It was one of the men. I was a dish. You've never had reindeer.

I was a dish. You've never had reindeer dick.

For real. Did you have this when you were three? No.

No. Yeah. Part of the diet. It turns out that serving a reindeer penis is kind of unsustainable because well, you just go through all the dicks. So anyway, it's closing.

I just want to go throw the dick. So anyway, it's closing. That's why they shut the restaurant down. Unsustainable.

Unsustainable. Is that for the demise of the best restaurant in the world? Yeah, I guess NOMA is. Have they over indexed on penis?

Yes. Oh, yeah. I guess NOMA is.

Have they over I think they've been they've been uh maybe a lot funnier if it was.

I think they've been they've been they've been the number one restaurant for the last five years. 3 Michelin stars. Obviously. And I think they're, they have like capped out on opportunities to be number one restaurant.

They find an edge. It's like, how much further can they take it?

Yeah. And there's obviously been a lot of copycats that have done done well,

But I've been pretty pretty insulted if you go all the way to fucking Copenhagen to go to the best restaurant in the world They serve you a plate of rain

It's like a troll

I think that says everything about How far people take this stuff? It's like I mean, yeah, if I'm gonna serve you something that's thousands of dollars There you go. You just play these bullshit games with people. I do want to know the price point of the reindeer reindeer Of the reindeer reindeer. I bet sorry couldn't walk out I bet sorry couldn't walk out to be specific. It was a reindeer penis Ragu. Okay. Well, sure They had to put it in something

I mean, you know anything anything takes good. Might as well be reindeer

Might as well be reindeer

Yeah, I think Eric's right I think they're literally just like

Yeah, literally just like some critics are there

Yes, there's some lady that wrote dear Karen, I've been eating tons of penis on this trip Definitely need to rein it in when I get home Yeah, so I guess anyway you just thought it was a

Fine dining situation. That's not what's what's the best restaurant you guys have been to

The best restaurant doesn't have to be like famous mission. I mean, but I mean, but I did go to one who's a tell your kren and San Francisco it was pretty up to the whole experience. I mean the food was amazing But it is kind of like the whole experience thing but also like Albertos

Yeah, yeah a little senior ponchos

Yeah, I want to a little yeah, I want to I want to a little yeah, that's in Chicago


like it's it was like unbelievable that but that one's also a foofy one where it's like bubbles of It's like the food doesn't look like food. It looks like something else

I don't know if I would call it foofy, but like yeah, it's like it's like theater It's like art it's crazy like serve you like a flower It's like a rose and you like eat it and for some reason it tastes like Wagyu steak It's just like you're just fucked with your brain Nothing everything nothing everything there's like 18 courses of that right? Yeah, it was eight was like a it was It's like 12 12 course meal Wine pairing everything. I remember they served us like they were showing us this like bottle of it wasn't quite wine But it was a wine type thing and the story behind it was like so absurd. It was like yes So it's loaded in this ship in London and it sails around the bottom of Africa Africa takes stops and goes back around and then back because the motion of the waves and the temperature

No, no, it's like a wooden chip what yeah it needs to be wood no

No, it was it was it was the most bizarre story I've ever the robo is that we're saying I mean it's probably like 22 when I went there and I that was like by far the nicest meal I'd ever had in my life. I mean still is but like at the time I was like Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. It was it was mind-blowing

I mean boy boat is that we're sayingaro boat? Is it weird saying Alinea's up there?

I mean, that's usually on people's lists. Um, it was the best restaurant in the country like Hands down I think for a bit. I don't I don't know if it's still holding up these days

But don't we have some new ones in San Diego? Yeah, they give yeah

They gave out a few more. Right this last year. Yeah. The stars are kind of a scam a lot of the time. I thought you might say that. But it's kind of true. Is it? Yeah, especially like the two stars I find

are like the worst. Like you see you go to some and it's just like why? Always go one or three.

That same with wine. By the cheapest or the most expensive. I feel like if there's like a one-star Michelin in an area that has like no Michelin's like it's probably a really good restaurant but you get some of these like twos in areas that have done some defined dining and you go and it's just like why you know and like the

one I hate the most is is Addison like I've just got a two stone I just got a

two star right yeah I can it's like the essence of just like over-the-top super stuffy like not that good like the last time my buddies went there they rented out like the whole table and they had they served like pigeon and like half the table got food poisoning and it was like $900 a head for the dinner yeah it should be Oprah yeah and I did I declined the dinner I was like you know

I'm no not doing this again it should be Oprah yeah you know know which restaurants I like the ones who get the bibs the Michelin bibs it's like the precursor to the one star and they're still under the radar you still get I

didn't even know there's a thing yeah I didn't even know there's a thing yeah

yeah I like that Michelin bibs best restaurant I ever went to and I haven't been to a bunch of Michelin this was a non Michelin in South Africa in the wine region of Stellenbosch I just looked up the name still it's called le petite Colombe hopefully I'm saying that what kind of a little college yeah it was unbelievable absolutely incredible but again like you said it's like it's it's the experience sometimes it was the night it was the air it was morning air morning air is the best air as you know morning here I don't want I still package it up for you no it was a nice crispy evening and it was just the day the whole experience I mean the service was the best service I've ever had in my life like the way they made you feel perfect balance you know that that's so hard to strike that professionalism I'm here to do my job but I'm also cool and easy to talk to is so hard they're either too hey dude and too casual or too miss you and make you feel uncomfortable and like you're not at home and the best restaurant makes you feel like you're in someone's home or even your own home but just not cooking and the best food ever is being served to you yes that to me is so important so staff is I think one of the most important things and then obviously a great creative innovative chef and this place I think it was like a 13 course you know with pairings and all the experience of like first the the the sparkling and then the white wine and then the red wine that goes exactly like perfectly paired with like your entree

just that whole thing is impossible a nice like wine pairing is super magic you also can't do those things like too like I've seen some of my friend they're just they're just dulled by the whole experience like not even special to them anybody that's something I hate do and that's a rich people problem yeah that's the dummy adaptation and full oh yeah like they're like totally that is like

the pinnish suit makes it it's like not even so it's like that's a rich people problem. Yeah. That's the, that's the Adonic adaptation and full force right there. Like totally. That is like the, the, the pinnacle of it. We try to stay away from doing those types of things as much as possible to make it very special. Yeah. I feel like you do a good job of that too, Eric. Like you, you enjoy the casual things very much so that then when you go out and you do something, you're like very grateful for it. I think, I think you have your eye on the Adonic treadmill, you know, Adonic treadmill. Yeah, you come yeah, you like to,

yeah, to make it very, yeah. Thanks. Adonic treadmill. Yeah. I'm pretty good at being objective about it. Like, I, I like good food and it doesn't have to come in like some spectacular packaging, you know, for me to enjoy it. Cause I'll, I'll actually just like good food in any,

in any package I guess. Yeah. Yeah, I've been cooking a lot more. Even just that is like fun at home.

I have, I have the sake. I've mastered chicken by the way. I, how do you do it? Just cooking. It's, it's all in the Brian I've discovered. Nice. Brian's unlock. Yeah. I have, I think I have the formula down. It's, it's, um, it's like 32 ounces of water, like four tablespoons of Morton salt, exactly 60 minutes. Wow. That's a little less.

Yeah. 60 minutes in the back.

I go overnight. Yeah. I go overnight too. Like, yeah, I go overnight too much.

No, I do 60 and it's just, it's, it's like a game changer. And I bake it, I bake it at like four 50. You get a nice little crisp on there. Um, and because it's like so nicely Brian, like you can use like the higher, it doesn't dry it out and it gives it a little bit of crisp. Oh,

I used your a steak cooking alpha the other day. Oh, the reverse sear, the reverse sear. Did you execute it? So I did a, uh, cast iron skillet high heat four minutes seared on one side, like three minutes on the other plopped in the oven. It came ribeye. Or would you go? Uh, it was a bone in ribeye. Nice. That's my favorite. Yeah. It was a thick one too. Cause you can only do this on like, yeah, you got to do it on a one and a half inch, two inches, like thick steaks.

Disclaimer. Yeah. And then throw in the oven and it looked like a restaurant, like a steakhouse steak and I never my steaks never looked like the restaurant,

but this one did. So I think you might also forgive me.

Yeah. It was a thick one too cause you can only do this on like, yeah,

one and a half inch, two inches. Like thick.

I also do you guys ever do the thing where you put the butter and you like, yes. What's like?

Yeah, I do literally like, yes. Yeah. I do literally like almost half a stick of butter with a rosemary cover. Cover this and throw it in.

Yeah, I close Mary. Cover the skillet and throw it in.

But you continuously suppose goes.

But you continuously suppose to scoop the at that scoop. The butters at work for that when you do that action. Yeah. That's important.

Yeah. That's important.

I've always been like a griller, like not a stovetop Guy one stovetop Steve. I was too and then the reverse here just changed my life. What's I?

I also recommend stainless steel. very good stainless steel pan can be as effective if not more than a cast iron.

The cast iron just has so much smoke it's sent off the fire alarms in my place.

The stainless steel has a lot less. And you still get the same perfect crispy edges. Also when you go and you put your steak in the cast iron or the stainless steel make sure you burn the fat first. So take your steak hold it on the edge with the fat and let that all go right into your oil so whatever oil you're using. Like I use ghee, some people use lard. lard is really good. And then let that all just fucking melt together into juicy goodness. Okay. I'm gonna run it back. This is good. Run it back every two weeks I

think. Go right into your oil. Don't go get it, no runs back. Fruit cooking was like the one fun thing to

do during this detox I used to got two more wait one more night two more nights

yeah depends how you interpret 12 days tomorrow's the 12th morning of the 13th

morning what are we doing here morning of the 13th 12 days tomorrow's the 12 no that's 11 days no that's 11 days that's 11 days you got this we're just not gonna hear from him it didn't happen by the way if I don't talk to him it didn't happen by the way big like you guys you guys ever tried this stuff what is four sigmatic four sigmatic mushroom elixir it's basically like lion's mane I've subbed my coffee with this and I figured out that if I used to the packets and I checked that this isn't gonna be an amount of lion's mane that kills me because it's a lot I think it's like 3,000 milligrams or something yeah like there's no caffeine in that there's no caffeine in it and I

don't know if I'm just placebo in my face off but like I feel like what is

four sigmatic there's no caffeine in like in like I'm not like jittery but I feel like actually like focus and like the habit of it I feel like it's like half of what was really getting me with the coffee which is like the act of waking up and yes a hot

beverage and everything so I kind of replaced it with that and I don't know if

that's one of the things I'm going to straight back to you I'm going to be

back to caffeine in my bands like I don't want to replace it

to be back to caffeine, back to caffeine in my veins.

I don't want to replace that.

Yeah, well, I feel, I have more energy throughout the day right now though. I like really do and then like, I don't know if it's because I'm sleeping, like there's a lot of confounding variables, but like my experience with caffeine was like, I hit it and I'm like, yeah, and then it's like 10.30 and I'm like,

oh, and then like 30 and I'm dead, yeah. Have you guys tried Huberman's recommendation of waiting like 90 minutes or two hours? Not really doing that before. I was like this is an easy thing to split test, right? That helps a lot. It makes a huge difference for me. From waking up, yes. Yeah, so a lot of people have their coffee within hour and a half, two hours of waking up. If you wait an hour and a half, two hours

and then have your coffee in minutes or two hours. You're establishing minutes or two hours I was already doing that before.

I was like this is an easy thing to split test, right? That helps a lot.

From waking up, yeah... From waking up, yeah, you're establishing a proper baseline that you naturally attain by just waking up, getting some sun in your eyes, having your salt, movement, the workout, before you add the sort of caffeine. I am with you though, Steven. I am the most, like I think I was most scared about like giving up the caffeine, right? Even though I just had that Coke Zero and you guys.

So, to the man who just drank, 35. So I literally didn't realize,

but anyway, I literally didn't realize, but anyway, feels so good. So I thought it would be harder. I had a migraine for two and a half, three days, almost, like the first 3 mornings and that was really, really hard. But once I got past that, I feel okay. I thought it would be a lot harder. So I could see myself doing like decaf days

and calf days to just never get hooked to that level again. That's good, good call.

I think that's definitely a requirement no matter what. Like I think you have to take like bare minimum of one day off and you probably have to take like maybe a week off like once a quarter or something or maybe six months. That's my new plan. Because otherwise you get into that level. Because I was like you the first time I quit coffee. I quit coffee like during COVID. I experimented with it.

And I was like bare minimum of one day off.

And you probably have to take like maybe a week off.

Because otherwise you get into this like a wreck for three days straight. It was like unbelievable.

I was like oh my god. It's hardcore.

I sort of like the idea of incorporating the decaf too. Like in the afternoon when you would formerly have like a coffee later. It's like nah, you can just do a decaf.

That's cool, later. Yeah, I already bought it. I'm ready to go to like stick to that plan. Just basically gonna cut that amount of caffeine in half. So should we wrap with some Ozone talk here? Switch gears. Something positive.

Bring it home. Something positive. Bring it home.

Yeah, it's a little tidbit to leave people with. Yeah, so what's going on with the Ozone? It's recovering. It's coming back, baby. Is that true? Yeah. Fake news?

No, I think that. No, I think the UN said this, right? Really?

Is it the UN? Do you have a source on it? Really? Is it the UN? I don't have the source. Yeah. It says trends indicate a full Ozone layer recovery by 2040 will take place across the planet, excluding the poles. The poles have to wait until like 2045 and 2060. But we bounced back. And I think they're kind of contributing it. Those CFCs, I forget what they're, what the. Chlorofluorocarbons.

Yeah, like they were in your Aquanet hairspray. Not a big thing we were kids, yeah. So it might've worked.

Like that kind of like United was the UN. Chlorofluorocarbons-


That was big thing. Vol Inter, it was almost,

I mean, I think people, there wasn't a big fight about it.

Collective action does work sometimes, huh? I think we could easily take this into a negative path where we start going into like, well, you know, climate change, whatever. And you know, EVs and things. I don't wanna shoot that stuff. I think I'd rather just be happy.

I would just take the EVs and stuff.

I don't wanna shoot that stuff. I think I'd rather just be happy. take the win, I'd rather be happy,

we're taking the W here.

It's going to prevent a lot.

That means that this prevented a half a degree of warming. 0.5 degrees of what was predicted. That was a, that's a significant chunk of like the Armageddon that's been being predicted for the next. Hell yeah. Like for the next century.

But it's interesting how lagging, cause that band was put in the eighties. No, no. Cause I, I saw that stuff in Yeah, we were right in the nineties. Nineties, yeah. Nineties, yeah mid nineties. So.

So a couple of decades.

Yeah, yeah. In the nineties.

Nineties. Yeah. It's pretty cool though. Gives me hope. Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm glad to see something turned around.

Things are just not as bad as they seem sometimes.

We like. That's that's, that's one, that's one way to look at that. The other is that in order to, to have achieved this result, what was necessary was to wring the alarms. Human beings don't react and take action and prioritize something until it becomes like critical and that our lives depend on it. And it's so funny because a lot of the, I don't want to go toward what you just said. He's going there. No, no, no. Somebody's going to get that. Look. I gotta put it on myself. No, no, no. It's full it's in full control.

I said full Gil. This being done. I haven't the control, this is a positive statement. Trust me.

Now I'm clearly he's going there. No, no, no, no. Somebody skeepers.

Somebody's getting better time. Look, I got

myself. No, no, no. No, no, no. I have the control. This is chart. Eric's looking at him like, watch it.

Eric's looking at him like, watch it. No. So in order to actually get people to move, what I'm saying is you have to ring the alarms because if you don't, then they're just going to look at this. And if you say things to them like this affects future generations, that's kind of been the call to action is like, leave future generations, a planet that they can actually like, live on and not feel, you know, that they're going to get suffocated by, right? And or is just dying around them and uninspiring and they have to deal with. That doesn't seem to have been enough for people sometimes. But what does really seem to work is when you say you're in critical danger, your city is in critical danger, your, your, your life, your immediate life, your lifetime on this planet is affected by this. And I think enough initiatives have shown their success and we have a big W now. So I just think it's important when we want action to market it and position it the right way, because human beings tend to be lazy and self serving. And this was an example of like, the right positioning to get the action. We don't have to go into, you know, whether it was right or wrong, completely or accurate or not. But I still think it's a big W.

Look at me just I'm holding my tongue. Yeah. Smiling. Yeah. I love it. You just had to go and bait me. I'm like, no, but

there, but I'm taking it all. I closed it. Yeah. Smiling,

smiling. Yeah. I love it. No, but it's a whole loop. I closed

it. Take a note. We're taking the W. This is nice. Yeah. Take a note. We're taking the W. This is nice. Yeah. This is nice. Are

there no debates on this episode? It feels good. Well, yeah.

Yeah, quick. Yeah, quick. End it before we get into it. Okay.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. All right. Love you guys. See you in the next episode. Si in the discord, Si in the discord. We'll be drinking next time. Yeah. We'll be drinking. Join us and yeah, don't forget to

join us on I don't know if join us on uh, I don't know if I'll be but we can talk about the we'll talk

about this Friday's. We'll talk about this Friday's thing and the Discord Fridays, coffee money talk on YouTube. Alright, Bye. Biner.