24. Biggest Investing Mistakes, Biden’s “Ministry of Truth”, and Biggest Business Mistakes - Transcripts
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(00:00) - Intro
(02:43) - The Alfalfa Round
(12:12) - Mistakes we have done as crypto investors & What do you need to change for my thesis to change?
(40:48) - Disinformation Governance Board & Joe Biden’s ‘Ministry of Truth’
(1:07:12) - Biggest Business Mistakes we have done!
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Arman Assadi aka Krypto Kabob
Eric Johanson aka Crypto CFA
Nick Urbani aka Talipino
Stephen Cesaro aka DeFi Diva
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Okay, welcome to Alfalfa. A free flowing irreverence, digestible, somewhat degenerate crypto podcast for all powered by collective shift entrepreneurs and investors are Mon Asadi knicker Bonnie Stephen Cesaro and eric Johanson dive deep into crypto Blockchain defi, N F T S. The Metaverse and Web three all while layering in the latest in tech money and politics, feeding you the alpha. You need to grow, make sure to check out collective shift dot iO for crypto insights and alerts and use code Alfalfa for 50% off your first month. A friendly but serious reminder. This is not financial advice and is for entertainment only. Do your own research also. Please subscribe to the show and tell your DJ and friends all about us. Now let us begin What's up. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Alfalfa. I am a little upset with you guys for not being with me at permission list
West Palm beach here with block works and bank lists. Having a grand old time. Going to a little party tonight with optimism. You guys are gonna miss the Alfalfa. You're gonna have
you have to get paid me.
Sad I really am. Are you?
I would rather be out in florida than in the dark trading hole I've been in for the last four days. Believe me. Yeah, this party tonight is gonna be great little bank less optimism party. I'm excited but let's bring the Alfalfa. Very excited about this episode agenda today. For three segments, investing. We're talking about the biggest mistakes we've made in investing in crypto or investing in general. And then for our policy segment, we're going to talk about the air quotes here. Ministry of Truth. President Biden's home Homeland Security Disinformation governance board. Actually, personally very excited to talk about that one. It's a juicy topic.
Um, and last but not least will will wrap up with more mistakes, biggest mistakes in business, uh, in general business maybe even life if you want to include any guys, but just running a business, starting a business, whatever that might be. And um hop into our discord links below in the description. Um, good stuff happening in the discord in general and last but not least check out collective shift. Collective shift dot IO actually was just told by our head of customer success that this week they have onboarding calls with two people who joined our pro membership uh basically anybody who joins collective shift and gets a pro membership gets like a free on boarding call with our head of customer success. They get to ask their questions, talk about crypto, get fully on boarded into our platform and you know, talk about your portfolio, maybe even get some advice and feedback on what you're doing. And they were like, yeah, apparently these two people that are coming on this week that I'm talking to are from the Alfalfa podcast listeners. So it's awesome. Thanks thanks for joining. I hope you guys love it. And in general if you're listening in a bear market. I think it's a good time to get educated. It's a good time to build.
It's a good time to get educated. So um yeah links to everything below. Make sure to use our code alfalfa for a discount as well. Anything else guys?
Um Yes. So uh do we want to do an alfalfa round? Alfa round this week? Yeah. All right let's do it. I figured we'd just, I'm so excited for the segments but okay okay. Nick why don't you rip it off?
I have a small misstep yesterday it's it's alfalfa that was slightly missed squandered. Was actually talking with ERIC about this. I placed yesterday so today's recording this on Wednesday. Um We um yesterday we heard from Chairman Powell on some comments on inflation and interest rate hikes. So I decided to play some putz yesterday for Q. Q. Q. Which is the NASDAQ index and RK after consultations with ERIC with various expirations. Um except I placed them like 10 minutes before market close and I realized that the funds I had transferred in had not been cleared for trading yet. There's cash in there But when I went to go make the trades they didn't go through and so today they would have been I think all blended would have been a 70% return today on those missed, missed the largest like market Down run since 2020. So that was that was I'm gonna be bitter through tonight and then tomorrow I'll forget about it. Um But yeah, I'm gonna continue to kind of strategize hedging against like a further downturn uh and going to consult with you guys on it and yeah, so anyway, that was my alfalfa play that I kind of missed.
And if you ever complain about Bitcoin and ethereum network transaction times, holy sh it try to remember what it's like to wire money from one bank to another and how long it takes its three business days still hadn't cleared. So anyway, that's what that's what I attempted to do yesterday and will likely attempt to do in the next week or so as well. And my alfalfa rounds are pretty simple, my funds were cleared and uh I did that trade. Thank you, thank you for the
Easy. Should've just texted you at like 1258. Help please let me borrow some money in your account. Yeah, those are, those are printing yeah, huge. Yeah those are
big. I managed to I mean I managed to fire off a very large portfolio of ship coin shorts yesterday.
playing out nicely today. I'm basically and basically D. C. A ng into uh ship coin shorts as like a This is my just my 2022 investment strategy, treating them as like a negative investments basically.
I love them. I think like we talked about maybe six months ago stable coin farming was probably the best investment available and I think right now. Shorting ship coins is the best investment available.
Yeah, stable coin farming is dead, died very quickly, very quick and uh an abrupt death. Uh And like like so many other things in the space. What do you, what do you guys recommend for someone? This dangerous question. Um but for options trading in general, like what platform are you guys using or which one do you recommend
trade for? It doesn't matter. They're all pretty much the same. They're going to use the same order book that's like driven by citadel in the entrance fee.
But in crypto.
Yes, steven, how did you implement these short? Did you borrow against them and sell them the stables or like how are you implementing the actual trade?
I have a I have some international accounts
dot com. Dot
com. Please don't me.
I wanted to contribute some money and actually trade
her killing me. But yeah, I use, I use perpetual futures perps, which I I really don't recommend to people unless you know what you're doing because you can just get so so wrecked. But I'm not really selling any of my E. F. I'm basically using the ether in my account as I'm as collateral, right? So if I have say, you know like $100,000 a. V. For like a round number, right? And I don't want to be long that much in this environment. Well I could put on $100,000 short of um you know a basket of really crappy coins that I think are just gonna bleed out and that will reduce my exposure. It'll probably make me actually net short because those coins are likely to go down a lot more than anything is um a couple of things you gotta be careful though is the, you know, the leverage, right? But in theory, you know, if you're shorting, you're making money when the coin is going down, right?
So if your collateral is going down in theory your position is going down more. So you should, you should be okay. And the other thing you gotta worry about with purposes is the funding rate. So you could be uh, if you're not paying attention, you know, paying 100 and 90% a year in the interest rates too short that coin that seems like it give me to go down and then you could actually not make any money when, when the dust settles. I think a simpler thing for people to do if they want to take like a longer term trade and might be a little late in the cycle to do this. But you know, if you would put your wreath on eight and borrowed a couple of these crappy coins like like engine and sushi and unit swap and make all these down only coins and just sort of sell them right and then just re deposit your stable coins for collateral. But that's a good example of how to keep your existing position but then put on like a different position that's going to kind of appreciate, you know, and this is especially important for somebody like me because I don't have like a quote unquote job with the salary. So if the market is going down like this gives me a way to get cash flow without having to sell assets. So I kind of win whether we go up or or
what what vehicles are using or
know the funding is really bad on those. I I've I've I've been short Harmony one and an
and Kronos but Harmony one, like basically all of these L ones I think are just gonna die except maybe we'll still revival from Solano or or a vax, you know the next run for a bit. But I think there's a lot of these L ones that are just, I think the Harmony is especially dead on arrival. Um I've been looking at, Yeah, I mean I've been looking at these a lot and it seems to me like all of these are just going to kind of retrace to there 2021 like year opens which is still like another 70% from here. So I think there's still a lot of juice in the trade but I, I am kind of, I think we're gonna get like a huge
kind of a
relief rally at some point. That's the main reason I haven't been putting on like a large trade is I don't want to put on like a huge position. Then we get one of these relief rallies and I get so, so some of those sound like they could be a good transition toward mistakes or learning. So if you don't mind, I'll transition there and I'll just kind of end with my, my alfalfa um, for, for basically this, uh, this week was what the funk was it at this point? Yeah, that's what it was. I wanted, I wanted to talk about that. I just wanted to mention like, I haven't made any like actual trading moves this week, but the biggest thing that I've gotten out of going to permission lists really is ultimately, um, this market this time, this cycle is an incredible time to learn and to build. And uh, I know that's not exactly what we're supposed to do in this round and it's supposed to be focused on like actual trades I made. But that, that really is the biggest insight and the biggest alpha that I've come across lately. And every time I've talked to people here at this conference, any crypto conference, I think previous ones were the same about things that I am building or want to build or want to do, there's just an immediate influx of support and, you know, this space is a very harmonious mostly on the most part, there's definitely aspects of toxicity, but overall it's, it's one in which, you know, there's a wag me culture, right? And wag me meaning, we're all gonna make it, and that is an abundant mindset that exists in the space as a whole. I think that that's saying, and that acronym is really significant.
And again, I think people want to see people succeed and they want to celebrate success and they know that if you build something of value, it's only gonna make the whole space more successful and functional. And even today, for example, there was, you know, a great talk, I was mentioning, you guys on Web Three social media, just talking about that future of what it looked like was really exciting. So to think like just how much promise there is an opportunity there is in social media for Web three is really exciting and there's plenty people out there that are like, man, I could create a better social media, onboarding on ramp tool for social sign in the way that Web two did it, but I'm gonna do it for Web three. Cool, amazing. Um those are all opportunities that exist, so get to building because it's going to be, I don't know, we'll see if it's going to be a 12 to 18 month thing or a six month thing, like ralph paul was saying, and it's going to be more condensed, but either way we have time and we need to build and we need to learn. So that's my, that's my alpha. Let's switch gears into mistakes. So to set the stage a little bit for the listener, the idea here is that obviously we're, we're kind of at the end of a, an incredible bull run and it's a good time to do a bit of a retrospective, a little bit of a postmortem and think about what we did well what we would do differently in particular when it comes to crypto, because that's what we're mostly talking about here and identify the patterns where we realize in hindsight, that was a mistake that we fell into some sort of trap, some sort of cognitive miscalculation and failure and potentially even a bias and that we hope to not repeat that. And as a process of actually, I think sharing that here with each other, I think ideally we get smarter, we get better as investors. But also the listeners are like, cool, if I learn from others, that's great wisdom in that. So, um, there's plenty of mistakes. I'm curious what some of the ones you guys, uh, you guys have had, whether their crypto or or not, by the way, I think that they can apply as as general rules to decision making because that's ultimately what we're talking about.
Mhm Yeah, I
guess I can jump in and start, I, I think first might be good to just zoom out a bit for me because a lot of what I'm doing now is actually a result of some of my steak mistakes in the previous um, bull market. So I'm simultaneously evaluating the things I screwed up this time while fixing some of the stuff that, that that is actionable from before and what I screwed up last time was getting bored and walking away. Now I managed to get back in just in time and caught a really good wave still right. But I, I missed a lot of those kind
early defy 1000 X type plays because I just got so bored and disinterested with price not going anywhere that I, I left, right. So, so this time around I'm going to be doing a lot more, you know, staying in the game and researching and learning for sure. I think this past recent bull market, my biggest mistake was with regard to execution had really good thoughts. I had really good plans, I didn't really put them down in writing and I really overestimated how good my decision making would sort of be in the heat of the moment. And it turns out that when things are happening and you're either feeling fear or euphoria and in some type of adrenaline is pumping as as good as you might think you are, you do start making decisions from,
know emotion instead of the brain and your judgment gets a little clouded and then when the dust settles sometimes you're like, wait, what the heck, why did I do that? So I'm going to make sure that every trade I go into the next cycle, I'm gonna have a reason why I'm in, I'm gonna have exactly what I'm looking for and when I'm looking to get out and how I'm going to get out, if, if that is the case that I, I want to get out and I'm so steven your, your safeguard the way that you guarantee that you take this action. Is it as simple as writing things down? What do you think guarantees? Is it talking to us about it? Is it like, what's the system that actually guarantees that action, that outcome going forward? So, so even even recently, you know, I've been publishing a lot of twitter threads and and even doing stuff out of my computer that you don't see and I've been using notion a lot because I can kind of write all these detailed notes and screenshot, um, you know, charts and kind of write my thoughts in real time and you know, my plan of action and advanced when I'm gonna enter when I'm gonna exit and more importantly, like why I'm doing that and what will happen to and validate that sort of thinking and it's been really useful? I mean it's already, I can feel it giving me a lot of clarity. There was a time where I was definitely just kind of sitting here you get you get in those phases right where you're just there's so many thoughts that you just start spinning the the tires in your head and you're expending all this energy and you're not really going anywhere because you're, there's just too much going on. Um so a combination of yeah, talking to you guys writing it down and I I want to start blogging and that sort of thing too. Especially putting out some some some more like high level thesis for like what's going to happen for the rest of this bear and what we might see in the next bowl to really start kind of laying the framework for the high level stuff and then to maybe start drilling down from there because everything kind of flows top down from the uh the big species to the small I'm work I'm gonna be writing something I think. Are you teasing a potential newsletter?
A sub stack a review. Yeah, yeah I've got a I've got a I've got a Bitcoin hosting the works that I hope to be releasing it at some point. What does, what does that mean? A Bitcoin host a Bitcoin post or post? I'm yeah, I'm contemplating selling the remainder of my my Bitcoin stack. Oh before
I know I know this is like in vogue around here but you guys are nuts nuts. I'm I'm putting my thoughts to paper and making sure my thinking is pretty crystal clear before that happens. But I have some definitely some interesting things I've been thinking about
will find bullish about its gonna be its downfall. I mean these happenings are going to make it so that there's no security on the chain, there's no transaction volume to support. Uh
I I think that's like, I think that's maybe a problem. I'm actually not so sure that that's the problem a because it's so far out in the future that it kind of, we're all gonna be dead and be like sort of either going to make it as a global monetary network or not. You know, the fees. No, it's it's it's long time. Um I think uh the larger issue I'm worried about with Bitcoin not to get too in the weeds that I'm wondering too. We have commodity cycles, right? We have these decade and a half long periods where like copper just goes nuts. And commodities just go up and then they go down, right? Um I'm kind of worried that Bitcoin might fall into that thing and everybody's,
everybody has a
very short time horizon as far as investment goes, right, We've been through 14 years of Bitcoin. So it's just like, oh it's tested, it just goes up all the time, but it's never been tested in an environment where the liquidity is going away, it's never lived through a decreasing liquidity period and it's, it's never lived through a period, you know, where it's having a draw down while the larger, you know global equity markets are drawing down, I worry that it was too much just sort of like the best like sink for liquidity and in the next sort of paradigm we're going into there's going to be other things sucking that liquidity that remains right. For example oil energy stuff like that. Like people are going to be spending money on those things right? And I think that we may be engineering into like a new paradigm of like commodities and like utility right? And they're not there isn't
utility for Bitcoin yet.
I think there is this kind of like longer term you know time arises where this thesis could still play out but when I'm looking at it I'm sort of seeing both a commodity and I I do see utility there and it's just a questions to me this might be a fun thing to, this might be this might be a really fun thing to actually talk about at some point because this could easily be like a very long thing and I don't wanna I don't wanna gonna yeah I'm gonna put some more pen to paper and see what this is just kind of a thing. Thinking about our biggest mistake is Stephen not having a sub stack would subscribe. Alright so you're bringing which by the way the cool thing about review our E. V. U. E. Is it integrates into your twitter and since you're doing all that twitter stuff you can like have you guys seen that the one click subscribe in peepers, people peepers in people's twitter bios that's with like a substitute competitor um and it's really cool um highly recommend so would subscribe. Okay so on the on the on the threat of mistakes um Yeah I think we should discuss some more. What do you guys got
the non crypto related one? Um I mean there's so many to choose from but I kind of like Harken back to when I first started having enough money to actually start investing and man did I light some money on fire and I was kind of when we propose a topic, I thought back to like what are the lessons from it? And so I first started you know making some extra money and decided okay, time to put this money to work and at the time I had Maybe a basket of like 5-8 stocks that I was kind of like managing myself at the time. And it did well for a little period but you know, it's also difficult to actively manage while you're running a business, it's hard to create an advantage in that environment. So that that was one, but then I started you know talking to like investment advisors uh and I just kind of talk to the first two I found didn't do like a vetting process or talk to other people and I realized I was asking the wrong questions I was going and asking them like what are some good investments and and so I got some answers obviously quick I have done and I had just like kind of finally started putting these investments and I did them without a framework and knowing you know kind of what my defined goals were, what were my personal liquidity needs and over what time frames and I think you know the lesson there was, I should have been asking different questions when you first like enter into that the next stage where okay you're making money and you have money to invest. The question isn't what investments should I make, it's you know what an investment approach should I take over my lifetime as a younger person who just made some money, you know, what approach should I take and I didn't you know, ask enough people so after that happened I did start going to like an aspirational group of people, people who had multiple orders of magnitude more wealth than I did and I talked to a lot of them and I started asking them you know, what was your approach? And I started thinking of like what are my goals and frameworks and thinking in terms of like appreciation and income goals over my lifetime, in which time frames of my life would be growth would be more important, which would income be more important. And so that's when I started to unlock a framework and a model and then feeding investments through that model. Um so I guess like the lesson I learned was, you know, go find an aspirational group that's already achieved what you achieved talked to 567 people and I quickly landed on real estate and I had talked to people who had rented out single family homes and duplexes, I talked to people who've done like short term rentals like Airbnb investments. I talked to people who did apartment complexes and then we talked about a few podcasts ago, I ended up in multifamily investments quite a bit. Um and that's what kind of landed me in a better place. But um yeah, those first few mistakes, you know, looking back to how much those could have compounded, pretty painful to think about.
So I think that was my big lesson, you know, asking the right questions initially when you kind of have that money to invest and make sure you're asking enough aspirational people the right questions of what's the right approach over a lifetime and um you know, you definitely get a lot of good feedback, a lot of willing people when you ask the right questions um and you're just trying to learn. So that's my kind of hope for people to take.
It's funny because that gives like so much context to something, you know, that it was mentioned when your seat was empty. Good sir last week. Uh you know, one thing we said in the last episode was like what a great framework you have and how organized you are in terms of staying true to that framework and providing yourself transparency to where you're constantly at with your spreadsheets and analysis of your portfolio and like that just gives so much context to it. Uh in terms of like how you, how you got there and it's so true, like the hardest part is actually creating some sort of like intentional framework and investment thesis and sticking to it. Actually, the second hardest part of sticking to it. The first, the first part is most people don't even bother finding one, creating one in the first place, but so many people create one and and have one and then never stick to it. So that's like I guess the next hardest problem for
sure, rooted in pain most definitely. Um but also the framework turns into a thesis and the thesis constantly involves and if you start, you know, earlier in life rather than later, you know that that thesis can, can course correct if as you, as you learn and you know, luckily made some mistakes early on and still still make some mistakes, but but at least the framework um you know, provides guidance I think is really important back to stevens point about like writing it down like putting in Excel or like a narrative in word document where you write it to yourself is super important and it's tough to find clarity of thought. Um you know, if you don't write it down when you write it down, you're, you're forced to, to find clarity in your thoughts and I know a lot of you guys are really good at an arm on you write a lot and I know you find a lot of clarity and writing yourself so yeah, for sure
big time. Like I write to discover what I know and what I want in the first place um, which is so, which is so interesting. And to your point like, you know, people are often wondering like, well what is my framework where I just pull it out of my asks like where do I come up with like an investment thesis in the first place. So to give some color since I know you so well, like you started with your values, your, your value is freedom. You want the ability to get checks in the mail and not work for them actively and so passive income is, is the outcome and then you work backwards and you say what vehicles are going to get me there. Okay, interesting. You know apartment complexes, real estate. Okay, what does that do, what does that provide? How does that compare to these other options of crypto and stalks and choosing individual stocks and options trading and you do enough analysis. You say, okay, I need this much towards that this much towards that and you come up with some kind of framework and I think that's where a lot of people struggle, that's why that's why I bring that up, begin with the end in mind, begin with the outcome have have some kind of goal um eric you're obviously very, very similar and and I think you have a very similar goal as well, but you you tend to approach it differently. Yeah, I'm curious like
mistakes man and things you would talk about here give color to,
you know, I think you do this for long enough, you get a lot of mistakes to draw upon and there's a lot of money lost along the way. Um I think like I could pick any number. Um but uh where I where I begin to think about it is like are these mistakes of commission or errors of omission? These are like mistakes that that you like take action and you make a mistake or these mistakes that you you make by not taking action. And I think the biggest mistakes that I have made over my career are like errors of omission of like not acting and then that's like on on both upside and the downside, but the one that I want to focus on that has like the most impact on my life, it's not the biggest dollar amount I've lost, but it's the most impact on my life is is going back to the dot com boom and bust. Um that's when I like first sort of like dip my toes into investing. My, my grandfather gave me a couple $1000 to invest when I was like 14 years old and I got started back in dot com boom and I quickly ran that portfolio up to like 20 K. And for like a 14 year old, I felt like I was hot ship man, I was like day trading and during fucking recess, you know, like lunch breaks and ship, uh I thought I was hot shit and then the dot com bubble burst and all those things that I was invested in or like trading pretty much went to zero. I mean those were, those were like shits tongs before the term even existed. Um, I won't even get into the actual name because nobody knows what this stuff is, but um, that 20 K. That I had built up like went down almost zero and I fancied myself at the time, not only like hot ship, but I also had this ideology of being like a long term holder, you know, cause that's what I was always taught and what I learned in that process is like a, don't own a bunch of ships, tongs, make sure you own good assets, but be like, you don't have to just hold all the way to zero. Um, just because you fancy yourself a long term investor.
Um, and I'm taking a lot of these like lessons, even stuff we talked about like stuff that Stephen mentioned in the last episode was very valuable. I like went and and even did some of these exercises like writing down my thesis, writing down my strategy if this thesis plays out like what is a good investment strategy. So it's like trying to help you execute the trades and actually make money if your thesis is right. Um But like I think back then I didn't know how to hedge and in our alfalfa around, you know like nick and I talked about how we're like implementing hedges on the way down now. Like this this period right now feels so similar to that 4001 time where like there was like this real exuberance around this new technology, it was internet at the time. Now it's crypto valuations became irrational. That's that's also like what we're seeing today and you know there's things that I want to hold forever like Eve, but you don't have to just like raw dog it and just go long forever. You can you can hedge that away like hedge the downside. And that's something I think I've done a much better job of this time around I guess learning from experience, Can I interject something there that I found useful? So you know also don't dog but
I'm still on the raw dog.
can't get past the raw dog. It just takes me right back to S. T. S. U. God
for penicillin. Um Let's say, you know, let's say you you know, you got your thesis written down about you know what you think uh will will play out. And I found um you know the question a certain question helpful when to change course and that is when you write your thesis, ask yourself what do I need to see change in order for my view to change? Like what what needs to change in order for this view to change. And I actually asked that a lot of people when they present a very opinionated view about something like well what would you need to see in order for that to change? And if they can't come up with anything that well nothing will need to change from my view to change, then you might think that there may be a little on tilt or maybe it's not built on a strong foundation. And so maybe that's a good question to ask ourselves when we write the thesis, like what we need to change for my thesis to change.
So just a quick
interjection, you know that
No no no that's that's really really good stuff, what would need to change for my thesis to change because most people think that when they have conviction, that's enough and that their job from that point forward is actually to maintain that conviction. But if they don't allow for that conviction to be broken and it has to be for a specific reason, Then they're going to be blindly just following something that they decided 5, 10 years ago for no reason. So that's that's super. Can
I add one more thing to another thing I did? I reached out to an old mentor mine after our episode, our last episode because I had like multiple
thesis and multiple thesis. And you know, he was saying like don't don't
hard on these like hard questions on like what what exactly is going to play out? Like focus more on what to invest in under different scenarios. So like I'm having multiple feces written out and saying like, okay, so if this one, if this one plays out this way, how do I want to strategize how you want to play it? And I have multiple of those going on. That makes sense. When you know, you can't look at the predicted economy, but you can view everything in terms of probabilities and everything is probably fix. Makes sense. I like that
we'll wrap up here with some mistakes and I'm gonna keep them short because I'm actually really excited to get into this uh this Ministry of Truth Talk with you guys. This very controversial topic. People seem to really like the controversial topics with us. Did you guys know our abortion episode is I think it's our most listened to episode so far. I don't know if you guys saw that it was
my favorite episode was a great one, I'm glad, I'm glad.
Yeah. Yeah, it was different, right? I I don't think people can access that kind of conversation. I mean that's why I titled it like rare rational, you know, conversation. But so um here we go. My main mistakes. I've thought about so many different ways of framing this. A lot of it obviously my mistakes are very subjective. They have to do at the time that I entered the market, how I entered the market. What I began accumulating at the time that I entered the market and then the actions of commission or omission that I I love that that framework eric that I made and I was kind of looking at mine through your framework, I realized half of them were actions I took and half of them were actions I didn't take. And so in particular one of the most rewarding and yet challenging things that I experienced in this cycle was getting into N. F.
T. S too late. I remember when Nick was talking to me about began punks, uh
what's the oh
man, so I didn't
mint and I
didn't take action because I didn't feel like setting up a fucking meta mask.
a loser like. Well no, but the fact that I wasn't there to learn early enough was a hugely detrimental omission of that, you know like that that not following that wave with like a few of you other guys put me in a position of catch up in N. F. T. S. And when you're riding that wave a little bit too late, you know we talked about this in multiple episodes so I don't want to be too repetitive but like you think that you're cruising along and you're riding the wave and you're extracting maximum value but you're not, you're playing catch up and you're the exit liquidity for everybody
and two weeks after
two weeks after was
can we just talk about like how like I love that, that's your biggest mistake. My biggest mistake is minting began punks instead of board apes. Okay,
two weeks early bro.
Well no no I I get it. So you know it was it is this meta mistake of just generally if you're going to enter the market
the euphoria is already high
you're chasing new N. F. T. S. Generally where I missed out where I fucked up was chased N. F. T. S. Post mint. And what I did not understand in terms of the meta game at the time was that these were just pump and dump N. F. T.
Mints. These were worthless
jpeg mints for profile pictures and most of the time not the began one, but most of the time these were created to extract maximum value and dollars from the mint itself and the people behind the scenes that were able to participate in that just dumped got their
initial principal investment back and people like me, we're paying for it now in the end I'm way up on an F. T. S. But I still think that that was a mistake. I don't want to be that guy that says, well I uh you know I made like three good bets and 27 bad ones. It's not quite that ratio, but that's that's not what I want to see going forward. Next cycle. Um Are you guys experiencing any audio issue? I'm hearing some weird shit on my, it's
kind of choppy for me little bit my
voices or okay let's keep going. Okay. So also just generally as part of that, I think over allocating to N. F. T. S. That was something that I think we all did and we all talked about
like eric and I though like really talked about how we need to get get out and
know, fix fix the overall allocation I think over allocating to something that
know, I kind of went into trader mode. I kind of went into uh because I had like these handful of winners and I was like well I might as well like break some rules, break some rules from my framework and participate in this bull run. And I still don't quite know, I haven't done like a proper postmortem to like Figure out like well what are the rules that can be bent during the different cycles because there does need to be some flexibility because I am, you know, 35, years old now and I want to be able to participate in things like that. And so I I want to still maintain a framework and maybe that just needs to be part of the framework. Maybe needs to be a rule within the framework where I'm allowed to do X, Y and Z to a certain degree in these events, something something
But I think my biggest mistake by far was just not taking enough profits. I wish I had taken more profits along the way. Um, I was air dropped multiple tokens that I wish I had swapped at the time. Um, N. F. T. S. That I was air dropped things that I was white listed or allow listed for that I should have just sold right upon right right after they were given to me and I probably would be up another, I don't know 50 from that alone. But I didn't. So um, last but not least, the one that I think about least, but I think is the most important is I didn't bet hard enough hard enough on my highest conviction assets. So some of those in particular, Oh my God, after Listening to Ellen on all ends a few days ago, so bullish on Tesla again, like I just I know I know I'm a Fanboy level, but like I am so bullish on Tesla. It's like 19 companies and one and he barely scratched the surface of like how incredible that company is.
deep breathing is coming from stevens microphone.
What is that?
I'm on mute, but in my mind, I was like,
all I'm thinking in my head is exit pump, exit pump. Um, and, and, and one of my other favorite favorite stocks of all time in video. Um, you know, I think like I, I just wish I had gone harder on some of these like high conviction assets. So yeah, let's, uh, let's switch gears. Um, let's talk about the Ministry of Truth, joe biden, joseph Robinette biden, Jr uh, and his Department of Homeland Security's disinformation governance board. So this has been one of the big topics in the news now for quite a while. And for those people that don't know, I think we should give a very basic overview. But uh, the Department of Homeland Security created a new little disinformation governance board. Uh, the mission of that board was a little bit foggy and unclear to which they agreed and admitted to. But the idea was to eliminate propaganda that as they, as they saw so nick nick, why don't you give give your,
I mean, I think the, the, the original like stated goal was to was to, You know, combat disinformation around some specific topics that they mentioned like immigration, um, elect around elections and whatnot? I think COVID 19 and it was like disastrous rollout? I mean, they got this Aurelian name, utter lack of detail and the timing was like could not have been worse. So they they roll out this disinformation governance board at the same time. Elon's talking about free speech and about to go on his, you know, rating of of twitter and so with that backdrop they unleash this, you know, governent government like oriented and organized way of telling what's true and what's not. And then on top of that they add a disinformation czar, Disinformation czar that had like made public partisan statements prior to her being appointed. And so all that wrapped up. I mean, the quick, you know, references to George Orwell's 1984 just came out. You know, the Ministry of Truth is actually in the book 1984 and it was like, you know, this group that determined what was true and what was false and you know, often rewriting history to whatever the narrative of the of the day was. So yeah, that was what happened. Um, that was its stated goal without the detail and just terrible to roll out and yeah, there's plenty to go on what
was the actual name of this thing by the way, that's what it is. Disinformation, governance sport.
so nick do you think real name?
exactly. Do do you think nick that something like this was needed and could be necessary and or effective. Do you see a world at all where something like this is necessary? Say it was rolled out properly, say the manifesto was more clear. Say the timing was better. Is there a role that the department of homeland security or the government should be playing with this in any world that you imagine?
Let's let's state the obvious that like you know they're they're classifying this era is the era of misinformation. But that has always been true you know and it's because there's new tech communication technologies twitter social media faster basic communication. And so there's there's new ways of of information to be spread and that has always existed I think when they were going to like create the cross atlantic you know telegraph they were worried that like information was gonna flow too fast and and people often resort to the center button really quickly when there's these new technologies and new ways of communicating and misinformation has all always existed in in multiple areas of communication because that's kind of inherent to I think like the human species. Um so I think that that's one um and I just kind of get get like confused on how a lot of the default is for people to um want give the power or the decision making power more to government give them more budget and have them solve the problem when you know in America people should have the ability to decide what they think is right. They should have the, you know, the freedom to be wrong. They should have the freedom to be an asshole and, and not face any kind of retribution specifically from any kind of government entity. Um, I looked up a stat that I thought was, that was pretty interesting and I was like, okay, this is an instance of, you know, the government trying to decide what is right and what is wrong. And so I I actually looked up false positives on, uh, death penalty because that is the most like, important, crucial decision a government, you know, organization can make and, and particularly like, you know, um, you know, judges in the legal system and it turns out that, um, For every 8.3 people that have been put to death in the us, uh, since executions resumed in the 1970s, there's been one person who has been wrongfully convicted and sentenced to death.
we're talking about freedom of speech and
just what people's
thoughts are on covid and um, you know, immigration and whatnot. But when you, when you really hone in on something so critical as like, do we put this person to death or
Organisations are not able to be fully accurate. There's, there's over a 10%, um, defect rate. And so when you compare that, you know, I don't know if a government organization is the right way to kind of weight that decision making power inside
the way, by the way that's after going through our entire judicial process, which is very intense,
there are checks and balances on it that would never exist with a Ministry of Truth disinformation governance board, they would just say what they say, the funniest
can't get it right.
And you know, my kind of last point on this is like, you know, when you give government power, let's say they are trying to be objective, they have true intentions, but um you know government organizations, they have multiple administration turnovers, they have expanding budgets, they have decreasing budgets, they have scope creep, they have different priorities of the time and that power could easily morph and be justified to do something far from its original intention. And so that's where I get always suspicious of like is the answer to give more power to government rather than um you know, let let people decide and assume that you know, the population is not as stupid as as it seems. So that's that's good because I think like where I'm at is I don't want to focus so much on the government initiative on it. It's like I want to ask you guys and maybe you don't need to answer right now, but think about it like how do you even filter for truth, as a as a human being, right? And I imagine that you all consider yourselves like above media in terms of ability to do this as a human being, but like how do you filter? And then um you know, thinking about the future or even even the now it's like it's it's becoming like an imperative skill to be able to identify like parse out uh truth from bullshit, right? Because bullshit everywhere. How do you do it yourself? And then like understanding that it is a it is a fucking tough task. Um Maybe the government isn't isn't the the answer like having some government solution, but like there needs to be a solution like for a person to be able to like determine what's real and what's not. And it's hard and it's gonna get harder and harder because like pretty soon we're gonna be able to deepfake everything. We're gonna be able like visually fake anything that we want to.
Um So you can't trust your eyes anymore. What are you gonna trust? It's actually a hard question.
It is I like the italics perspective on this. I I sent you guys his tweet thread, I'm sure you guys have seen it. But one of the points that he made was that he basically had this tweet thread of contradictions in his life, right? And one of the contradictions was my contradiction between my love for things like decentralization and democracy and my realization that in practice, I agree with intellectual elites more than quote the people on many uh though definitely far from all specific policy issues. What a fascinating thing. I think my filter oftentimes is also the intellectual elite, we talked about this, nick mentioned this that his filter for information and news right specifically is us each other the people that he trusts to to disseminate and provide that and filter that information to him, give people access to the information, let them decide for themselves what truth is at the end of the day. But at the end of the day after that, yes, the mob and the people are going to have the power to determine and create change they need to make. But in the type of democracy that we live in at the end of the day, we're putting people in charge to make good decisions for us and we have to make sure our voices are heard, but that doesn't mean that they should take away our right to determine what is what in the first place. So this this whole concept of like I am here Big Brother, the government to do the hard work for you of determining what is true from the moment it starts, it's just it's gonna fail. I think there's a lot to, to discuss within this. And I'm sure Stephen you there's so many things within even the article we were reading earlier today that stood out to you, the Washington post put out this one. I mean I never read like these types of like media outlet articles, but it was absolutely terrible and full of contradictions, but like one of the things that was in there was just this idea that I thought was partly true that I just want to address that when this disinformation governance board was announced.
The article argued, the journalists argued that the far right that the right took this idea and ran with it and that they have a playbook and that their playbook is to dramatize and to pick out and parse out things and exaggerate them and distract and and turn things into a mockery and turn things into memes. And that's actually pretty true. Like, like yes, like that's that's true. That is like the playbook in so many ways and yes, the right does like exaggerate things and go to the most extreme version of what they might look like, but and we can dig into that. But for me, this actually was
so many ways of victory for democracy, maybe that is a strong
But I think that if the people we're able to cat like provide enough of a response that made a government organization realized that
don't want to admit it, but maybe this was a mistake in the first place
They paused and now as of today, at the time of recording this on May 18, they literally did pause and fully, I think nick you said, they fully like they're
gonna go into review from two former DHS officials from, you know, both parties and review it, but you know, you can call it done done for
done. The fact that that happened in response
social media, the people and by the way they call it that the far right is doing this, it's obviously not true. We joke about this. If you hadn't left your your far right. Um I think it's kind of like a victory. I like it. I think it's cool.
I don't wanna be like a Kobe Shaq from Armand Stephen. I wanna see, I wanna see what happens next. Don't get home shock. Yeah.
I mean, I don't know like let it rip, let it rip. I never took this thing that seriously. It was almost just like so fucking stupid from the get go that you just knew it was going to collapse into just this flaming pile of wreckage. And this girl was like literally on Tiktok singing like mary Poppins songs about disinformation and meanwhile all her tweets are still up about like the hunter biden laptop being like Russian propaganda. It's just like, it's almost like you can't, you can't even script this stuff. It's it's so stupid and who wrote that article, Taylor Lorenz, I'm like befuddled that there are people in the world who like read things Taylor Lorenz writes like on ironically like who think that anything she says as you said, it's like that, I can't think of like a more like, vapid useless journalists in existence. And and the funny part about reading that article was it was just like it was just completely lacking in self awareness. You know, she was like outlining this playbook that quote unquote the far right uses for everything as she wrote. Like, one of these other experts say far right trolls are doing this blah blah, blah, blah harassing when it's like, it's like the same thing with everything they do, right. It's it's a it's a playbook. And I don't know, I I think God, I I think the democrats are just gonna get absolutely chill act for the next like to like, I just saw I I don't know if you guys saw this, you see Elon tweeted, he's like voting republican now, he's never voted republican before. And he, by the way, I have to say, I think he's one of us.
I think he's a radical moderate. He actually said that he's clearly a moderate. He's he's he's all over the place, he's got some like libertarian tendencies, right? Like, the problem is like this party is there just they're they're putting like,
people to their putting a gun to their head and they're like, are you with us or are you with like the far right nazis on like every issue that doesn't even make sense. And I think a lot of people are just collectively just going like, you know, just suck you and all of your, all of the people who like uphold you and write about this stuff. It's it's it's nonsense. So there's there's a real disconnect. I'm observing now from like what everybody around me like actually thinks about stuff and then what is sort of broadcast on twitter and like what the government puts out there. Like it, it really just telling like how disconnected they are from reality that they would put out something like this. And I think it was not going to be it. It's just a disconnect man. I mean, you talked to somebody at the bar in the airport next to you in the airplane. Why aren't they repeating the same ship that you read in the Washington post in these articles. It's a massive disconnect. I just don't see enough people that feel that way anymore.
Do you guys think it should be a free market? Uh let the free market decide what's true and what's not. And let the individuals sort of like collectively build truth.
Yes, that's your idea. It's like a last ditch effort. It's like a last ditch effort to control speech.
You can hold two things true at the same time. One that there is disinformation, it is an issue, it is a problem, It exists, it does influence people to make um potentially um unintended decisions at the same time. You can hold it be true that a government institution is not the solution to solve the disinformation problem and you're not radical either way for, for holding those two truths at the same time. And how
do you get to the root of it? What's the root? What is really the way to get to the root of disinformation?
I mean we we've talked about that like, you know, you use your social circle as a filter, but also like understand the incentives of the person who is um, you know, disseminating the information we talked about in previous podcasts as well. And then go back to like, you know, middle school, like when you have to do a book report, there are primary sources and secondary sources and and try to dig into primary sources as much as possible. And you know, don't, don't go full tilt on emotion. You know, don't a lot of people start off with like, um, if you point and then look for information to back that viewpoint, but if you can be truly curious about something in the hunt for real truth about it, at least for your, you know, perspective, you know, you can actually find truth and, and it'll be somewhere in the middle likely I'll just play Devil's advocate. I think the hard thing is that like most of us don't care about most things, right? We only have bandwidth to care about a few things and like be curious enough about each one of those individual things. So they're like, you're gonna get for for most things you're gonna get just like ship info for most of it, right? And you're just gonna take the thing that you hear the most like you're gonna get like you know the seven the seven most prominent things you heard about some topic that you don't give a sh it about. You're gonna take that as as true and that's fine but don't take the next step and just you know, copy pasta a viewpoint for the virtue signaling sit this one out and understand that like I don't have the curiosity or the you know, will will to like really digging this subject so sit it out and and just be aware that like I don't know, I don't know right? You know.
Yeah, you're you're right. I mean the problem is that like isn't so much that people don't know things, it's that they like lack the humility to just say that they don't know things or they go even the complete opposite direction and they're like very assured of the things that they know even though they don't knowing anything. We we have we have this problem in crypto too right? Like if you look at the most followed people in crypto they're they're complete morons. They're complete absolute like youtube Moon boy engagement farming fraudsters right? And it's just because like what works well on the algorithms for distribution and engagement is not like nuanced middle ground like thinking on topic right? It's it's rob you're leading, it's like engagement, farming clickbaiting or it's like, you know, demonizing of some other thing and right.
Like none of those things are useful for evaluating whether or not like a coin that you buy is gonna go to zero, right? And they're also not useful for like building your framework of like the political and cultural landscape of the world. And I don't think this is that difficult for people. Like I think you just have to force yourself to just listen to completely opposing viewpoints. Like if you went through my podcast feed, you'd think I was like a schizophrenic. I would have, you know, quite the collection of stuff on there from all over the place because I just don't know. I think it's an interesting exercise to take something that you're very, very sure of. And then just like here the opposite side of it, right? It's like, you know, our our discussion a couple weeks ago is a great example of that. I never thought I would be on a podcast offering some, you know, devil's advocate take on roe v wave. That was just like a product of me being like, huh? I don't know what what what is the counter argument to this making any sense.
And sometimes when you do that, you're like, oh, I never thought of that. That's why so many of my views have shifted a lot over the years. But it's I don't know, it can be uncomfortable for people to challenge something that's really at the core of who they are, especially once people like, really, i it's difficult once you identify with the idea, because then you're you're sort of, done right? Because then you're challenging your whole identity. Whereas if you maintain, like, a healthy distance and skepticism from stuff, which is what we're all taught in high school with the scientific method and everything, right? But we don't know. It seems like we just threw all that out and now we just hear things like that's truth. And then we we latch onto it and we get very, very sure of it. And we don't do any any testing your investigation. You know, this is kind of random, but thank God for art and movies and books and things like 1984 from people like George Orwell, because when they create the example of what the reality could look like, and then put words to the ideas itself, it provides people a framework to not let perhaps history repeat itself to prevent certain terrible dystopian outcomes from even occurring in the first place. So, the thing that the right
chastised for and, like, really beaten up for when this all happened is that oh, they immediately pointed to the most exaggerated worst case scenario of what this could look like. And they're labeling it the Ministry of Truth from this terrible book. But actually, if that didn't exist, we would have had when I say we I mean like I think the majority of people, not the right, just the majority of people. That's why this thing fell apart. It was just a joke from the first place. We we see democracy succeeded. Because that example existed in the first place for people to be able to say, look, this is the ship you're asking for. This is what it's gonna look like. The words are even similar. The tone is even similar. This is all a joke. I mean,
absolutely wild. There was this funny piece and again, I I didn't even know who this fucking journalist was, but it was as I said, one of one of the worst articles I've ever read? Look at the level of contradiction in this 11 piece, right? Tell me if I'm misunderstanding this, but this is like a joke to me. The board was created to study the best practices in combating the harmful effects of disinformation. Okay. And like it goes on to say that in fact, the board itself had no power or authority to declare what is true or false or to compel anybody to do anything. You just said the same thing, but the opposite. Like at the same time, like you were created to determine what disinformation is. What is a lie. What is truth? What is propaganda even think about what is the
term propaganda. So
the arguments against the right? Some of them are really good and some of them are true that they tend to just get really exaggerated and hyperbolic and they turn it into this like social media machine. But when you're not in power and all you can rely on is your words and the power of other people to share ideas. I think that's what you have to do because that balances the scale. If the right didn't have the ability to do so the left would be so fucking dominant that we'd be living in an absolutely crazy world. Can I just point out why that line is so stupid? Because it is one of the stupider things. I've I've seen her, right and she's written some pretty stupid things. Um Sorry, I don't mean to dunk on taylor so much. I obviously it's nervous. It's like she was like designed, I think she was just designed to engagement farm right? She's just designed So people like us, I think it matter, I think like she's, there's a lot of characters like this in the world.
I almost don't even believe that they're real people. Um but that line in the piece that you read is it basically says, hey, this government agency wasn't created to do that. It was created to do this thing one step before that, right? And it's just so dumb. Like no government agencies like ever created and then grown and like overstepped its bounds. Like I'm I'm old enough to remember when OSHA was trying to use to like force like mandatory vaccinations on the entire population, right? OSHA
And we're like, oh, that occupation, occupation, construction, construction and Yeah. And the government organization and next thing, you know, they're trying to force you, like everybody in the world with particular jobs to stick a needle in their arm, Right? So this idea that because the government bureaucracy or organization is formed and they say they're not gonna do that thing. Like the idea that that will never grow into that is just so laughable and out of touch with the reality of how literally all of government operates, which is why it's like almost hard to take this seriously, right? It's it's just so stupid, really is. Does anyone have any final thoughts on the Ministry of Truth here? I think we can go on what a clusterfuck. Hopefully it is fully officially closed administration. It's just like, it's like a never ending treasure trove of like, I do have to say, I was a little bit worried that like this thing would become a reality and I really view it as a that's a success that it fell apart. I think it's really cool. All right. So they're all, they're all losing their power.
I think, I think it's the games. I think the jig's up, this is like the last desperate grasps of, you know, it's like, it's like that old biology, you know, saying, right, how about like, you can have like a great product or you can have great distribution, right? And this is like a perfect example. The product is terrible, right? What they're selling is is crap and nobody wants to buy it. So they're resorting to the distribution, right? They're making it so that you have to take their ideas in and you can't get anybody else's ideas because nobody wants to by the ideas to their own merit. And that's sort of the last step. And then it's it's over after that we'll all be free. I hope,
the optimist is back. I like it. I like it. Alright guys. What, what have you fucked up in business?
Mhm. My friend,
almost everything. The cool thing is that you're all successful entrepreneurs. We're we're we've all done well and yet we've made lots of mistakes. So I hope that like, homeless people realize that like, um first of all mistakes are a massive part of the journey. There's more mistakes than wins. Always. I've made more mistakes than I can possibly count. There's just too many. But let's see what the patterns are. Yeah, I mean, I'll throw some stuff out there just in case I have to run in a minute, but like um I'm sure we're all gonna touch down some of the stuff people have heard a lot, but I'm trying to think what I've done that's maybe interesting, but a little out there. I, I think a lot of my biggest mistakes in business have ever, if they've come from starting businesses for the wrong reason. They got a lot of times I started a business, I actually did it for reasons that had nothing to do with the product or even making money.
Like I was
oftentimes I, I was like, I was bored. I was like longing to just be a part of something or, you know, looking for some sort of community or, and, and, and, and I got into these, these, uh, these ideas into these projects mostly to kind of just fill some different void in my life that I probably should have filled first. And then obviously once things kind of got moving and like the hard time started coming. I, you know, I realized I didn't actually want to being a business for the business. I don't even want to be in the business to make any money. I was, I was doing something entirely, uh, wrong. So yeah, making sure my head was in the right place, you know, doing it for the right reasons to begin with. Maybe that sounds obvious to other people, but I've done
Multiple times in my life probably at least like three or 4,
thinking like a similar vein, a lot of people creating businesses for non wealthy reasons, like not yours, but, you know, status is another one, you know, to be the boss to be in charge for, for status and uh, you know, maybe not necessarily for community belonging, but people made similar mistakes, you know, for for for the same reasons. So it's definitely like a common pitfall. I think it's
like a drug, right? Like when you start right, that that it's it's almost like you get addicted to the that early stage of the business is so good. You've got like hopes and dreams and you're building something and it's like you you almost get drawn to that and you just want to keep doing that part over and over again because it feels so good and anything is possible. But then if you if that was all you had, you inevitably hit the rough patch and you're like, what the hell am I doing here?
I think the old book is like the e myth revisited and your comments kind of made me think about how much we um you know, look up to entrepreneurs, but but the reality is that most people shouldn't be an entrepreneur, you know, and I think I've, I've spoken like entrepreneurship societies at state and other colleges and whatever and like kind of let them know up front, like most you shouldn't be entrepreneurs. It takes it's it's it's not necessarily for most people the best path and the fast path to like wealth and financial independence. It's a whole different breed that is sometimes very painful also really rewarding, but um yeah, we kind of like uh look up to these mythical, like, you know, entrepreneur sometimes and, and evangelize them too much and I think maybe that's the reason some people get into them versus like is this actually my most efficient path to wealth. Mhm. Um I have a mistake kind of like Allah 14 year old Erik Johansson, that, that involves a little humorous from trading in the dot com. Um so me and my, my business part of the time, you know, we're fresh off our first business, I would, I would probably describe as like a double or triple and in baseball parlance um and we simultaneously started another business at the same time that was like maybe a single or double, you know, both profitable and doing eight figures a year. And then, you know, the ugly head of hubris kind of like butted in into our, our brains and we decided to start a third company And we did not go through our normal de risking startup process that we rigorously went through in our first two and we put in like 10 times the capital that we had used to start the two previous businesses. We brought on a team right away. We even started and like I should go back and laugh at them about this, but like we started like touring office space that was like much larger before we even started the company and we went for full software product development, like long sprint cycles because like hell we couldn't miss. And and for him and I, those were first to businesses. So we're two for two couldn't couldn't miss and and fast forward is the full crash and burn and it was very much lighting, puke worthy amounts of money on fire and the company ended up doing like nominal amounts in in revenue. And you know luckily we had like profits in the other businesses to write off those losses against, but still like looking back, you know, back to like even the investment losses compounded those would have been very large amounts of money and so you know the lesson I look back on and just so you know like I think a lot of you guys know this but I keep a little vision board in my phone, it's an album on my iphone and I kind of transport all those vision images into a vision board and in one of those I keep the logo of that company in there.
Um just to remind me of the hubris I had and the humility I need to take on like any new venture. I start because this is like, it was a really big learning lesson for me and it's like you need to have the rigor and scrutiny of de risking the business as efficiently as possible. So like when you start a business, there's always this set of critical unknowns and assumptions you're making and you have to run experiments to minimize those unknowns and assumptions as cheaply and quickly as possible and you guys you know listeners can look up several different things theory focused planning discovery, different growth um lean startup or or minimal viable product. There's there's lots of like reading on on this method um but I think you know no matter what your idea is you have to go through that rigorous process of running experience experiments to run those you know minimize those unknowns and assumptions as cheaply as possible. You know just because another lesson for me personally was just because you're good at one type of business doesn't necessarily mean you're you're good at another. And then even learning from the failure of that business, like your learnings from a failed business are not necessarily the lessons you'll need for the next business. I think peter thiel and 01 talks about like all failure is bad, like people like two grand eyes like oh failure is good like fail off and fail a lot. But like the failure lessons in one business don't necessarily inform you what you need to do in the in the next business. So you know you want to minimize failure at all all parts I don't think like fail often is like a good advice to most early entrepreneurs but the main lessons you have to go through that de risking process like no matter what. So um yeah you you made me go through this like mini trauma again by going back and it was super helpful.
I've done the same thing that happens like you you have like money because you've been successful and then you think what would like uh
well coca cola
do if they were launching a brand, Yeah, just spend money. They just obviously they hire the best people that spend all the money and they're, they're all successful, right? And you, you kind of think that well I have resources now so I'll do that and it seems to never work. But on the other hand, I feel like it would also be dumb to just always do things completely bootstrapped from scratch if you have some. So I guess like where do you draw the line? Like how do you, how do you balance, like if you, if you, if you have been successful and you can spend infinite money but you know you shouldn't.
Well, I mean I think different businesses have different capital requirements, right? Like starting a blog has a different capital requirement than manufacturing pcs. And so you have to define like what is the minimum amount of capital and what's the de risking process for the type of business you're starting. And and kind of define the appropriateness based upon the business model you're starting regardless of what your personal stack is because the answer maybe I need to raise money in order to de risk this type of business and you don't necessarily need to like put your own money in it. But it's like okay for this business model in this industry, what's like the minimum capital I need and how fast can I? D risk this idea? Not necessarily like how much money is in your own personal bank account.
It's almost like what I hear nick from your story is like getting a little too, I mean you call hubris but
generally becoming a little too eager to skip fundamental steps. Never skip the fundamental steps. They're very important because they lay a strong foundation
the idea and for the business. And after you've done that, testing your personally more certain and the business scaffolding itself is more structurally sound. If I can make an analogy out of it. Um it just makes sense to me.
If you're going into a new business, you have to realize you don't know anything, you know nothing about what it takes to run a new type of business. And just because you were successful in business
quote before, it
doesn't mean you know anything. And so yeah, that was where we we faltered. And you know, I like I said, I have that in my little vision board to remind me that like you don't know anything and you have to like use the scientific method in order to evaluate like if you're on the right track or not,
what are your, what are your thoughts on this sort of legal agreements that go into starting a business? Because I feel like I have screwed up both extremes of this, I've screwed up the extreme where I'm like I trust you guys nothing's gonna happen. Let's just get to the idea and just start working. I've also screwed up by trying to put in place way too many things to begin with, burning a bunch of time and money and then having to go back and change to anyway. Um And the wise business guru, maybe Armand you have some insights into this as well, balance. I just think it's the same answer. It's literally the M. V. P. Of that
have to do it. But The cheapest possible like Nick I don't know like how much Google Doc. You write some bullet points, you both sign it and you know I think you go back to like the template you had of the upper agreement you had that you spent $25,000 on one time and you strip it and you make it. What about the person who's never spent $25,000 on the operating agreement? I don't know, nick, what would, how would you approach it? I think it's M. V. P. For sure. You can't skip the step. That's the biggest, one of the biggest things I've
like I just want to you haven't had a problem because you pointed to your operating agreement in times
Yeah, that's a very good point. Like we avoided a lot of problems because there was no verbal agreements, it was like, well our operating agreement says this, it says like if if one person wants out of the business, this is the method we go through um if um you know, we disagree on fundamentally on a critical business issues, this is the method we go through capital
call, this is the process guarantees, this is the process voting mechanisms, this is the process, the operating agreement is so fucking important and you know, and especially when you start a business with someone that you like, someone that you're friends with, someone that you have a relationship with already. I mean practically nobody starts a business with someone they don't know right? And oftentimes people start a business with a with a good friend.
what often happens is one of the great mistakes is you out of respect for the friendship. You want to prioritize the relationship and to steven's point, you go, well, hey man, like you know, we're good, we trust each other, we'll figure this out and you read articles and you read the books and people tell you, but you need to make sure you check these items off because the inevitable often does happen. Uh these situations do arise and it's very difficult. The most difficult part about this. And and one of the mistakes I've made is that when you're in the excitement and euphoria of a new business, the last thing you want to think about is the business failing, not only do you not want to think about it, you don't want to plan for it, you don't want to go into contingency uh any form of contingency planning, you don't want to go into like, well what would you even have to go into lines in your operating agreement about like what would happen if we not only disagree and we can't come to a vote, but after mediation, we still can't agree. Like we got a third party involved and we still fucking hate each other and we can't agree and you have to sit and talk to that person that you love and you care about who's your friend about that and nobody wants to do this stuff. So what do they do? They go with very cookie cutter templates and those cookie cutter templates end up sucking you later because you went with things that have absolutely nothing to do with your situation. So my biggest mistake is not just like busy. It's not this like it has to do with due diligence, it has to do with being comfortable asking difficult questions of the people that you want to work with, whether it's a joint venture or a partnership or a business partnership of co founders or whatever it might be in that moment of excitement and euphoria getting really sober and having a difficult conversation about their true intentions, their wants, their needs, their desires. What do they want to put into this? How much money?
How much work? How much time
how long? And if you don't get clear on that, you might think that this person is in this deal with you for a year, but they're really only in this deal with you for a month because they have this other thing they want to go do and that time comes and you're not going to be very happy. So I think it's due diligence and having uh quote unquote crucial conversations which is the title of a great book crucial conversations is imperative.
I'll give you the M. V. P. The shortcut of you know not spending a bunch of money in the operating agreement, it's like two things that I look at like one when choosing a business partner ask yourself, am I comfortable being business partners with this person for the rest of my life till the day I die? Like if we were business partners and if there is any hesitancy in that question then the answer is no, just just don't do it. If you do think like I'd be happily in business with this person for us my life then then the answer is yes. The second filter is you know, typically there are things ignored when understanding like a team in an environment, it's like well do we think this is a good idea is often the filter for for people to start an idea but there are other things specifically propensity for risk is one the ability for that group to execute on the critical success factors of the business. And then do those people have connected this up down across the value chain and those are three things that are ignored when evaluating like we all agree that it's a good business but is this the right team. So one would you be business partners for the rest of your life and then on those three accesses or filters you know is this the right team? And I've kind of tried to use that to the best of my ability. You know when when teaming up with people and businesses of their investments.
Yeah and on that business partner thing, the biggest thing I learned from um
recently in terms of reading and a shout out to know Vaal is Vaal listener kind of all shout out to Nepal
partner with people who are smart and hard working. Don't fall for the vanity story of promises of what people say they can deliver. Are they smart? Are they hard working? That's what matters. And will you partner with this person? Another another another kind of like maximus,
work with this person forever? But also
would you work for this person? Like if you you know like can you imagine yourself like if you're gonna hire them to be your business partner or work for you or whatever it might be, would you work for that has to go both ways?
Well I know
quote play play long term games with long term people
quote, I like
I want to hear,
to hear yours and yeah I just I just dropped my left ear bud right into my mask al so ask me anything and then I drink nice
little wax like that
the T. L. D. R. Guys is just part of the north people that you respect and trust. That's it partner with people because you don't, you don't build anything on your own. You're gonna, you're gonna be teamed with others team with people that you respect, you trust period.
Yeah. And and in your um situation, you know, you, you're, you're very blessed. You have amazing business partner, right? Um, and that you, that you really trust and and that's difficult to find.
It's rare, right? It's rare based on all of our combined experiences. But it's also funny how this discussion about business, you know, lessons quickly merged onto people, the people you work with and the people, you know, and um, I don't know. Let's realize that we all kind of like settled in on very similar theme and I think that's a, you know, not too uncommon.
Yeah, can't do it alone. So, um, that's a wrap shout out to everybody listening. We love you. Thanks for being here. Holler at us in the discord. Oh, he is listening. I'm pretty sure of it. Oh my God,
watching the almanac is right
Oh man. Elon's listening to
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