59. LIFE | Psilocybin (Magic Mushrooms): Dangerous Drug or Pathway to Consciousness - Transcripts

September 21, 2022

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welcome ladies and gentlemen de gens and degenerates to another episode of the alfalfa podcast we are for radically moderate entrepreneurs and investors swimming in the mess you great ocean serving up alpha in money politics and life we are knicker Bonnie Eric Johannson Stevenson sorrow and I am Armand a Saudi all links and all felt the pod dot com make sure to hit subscribe where ever you are listening or watching on YouTube and follow us on the socials and most importantly hop in our discord to join the community for the after party and more

alfalfa welcome back everybody thank you Sir hi Steven hello Armand once again we're so glad to have you back it was not the same with you last week and what what is it that you were doing last week while we were talking about next glucose monitor you

will first of all

it's yeah it's always a sad

events to not be here for the off of a podcast and I missed you when you're away

as well I miss you more missed all

love best either way what do you think of the Scotch


let me take a proper so this is the doll more cigar mall

yes is that correct yes and it's a shame we're not drinking it with cigars

I know I did that was mine apprehension

it's it's it's got a little like well and are you sure studio we'll be able to write yes the L. L. so have some school our studio cigar smoking there negative the mobile install something that we're going to list all of those rations system

what what this is very nice of never had really anything quite quite like it it's unique

that enjoying it also some additional alpha have have you guys ever tried limoncello lacroix

I think I did once and it tasted like alcohol and I got thrown out

of it it tastes so good it's a good I've maybe I think of a different way just how companies in my veins will see us shows up on the CGM it's yeah it's probably it's probably boosted by

boosted by purchases we got some cigar malls some water what are you doing Eric you still in the green tea

I switch it over to us some Rozay okay

fancy Rezaei all night so now back to your question

yes yes so you're in Mexico last week and you sent us some


euphoric text messages and you really captivated me with these text messages you do you did a you did a bit of a spiritual journey with us substance of Mother Earth and I would like to dig more into it because I I was intrigued

yeah I mix I'm excited for this conversation I think it's really important and for whatever reason this theme of psychedelics keeps coming up in our community and the community of society at large things really seem to be changing so I think that I hope that this episode serves as a resource for a lot of people who have similar questions to the ones that we have and the experiences that we've all we've all had to a certain degree that that we can share so I was in Z. what to name a whole Mexico which fun fact

carne asada Chris let me know that at the end of the movie Shawshank redemption actually the big in the middle of the movie when Tim Robbins and Morgan Freeman are like dreaming of where they want to go when they escape and get out spoiler alert

if you want I mean literally the greatest movie of all time a preacher so

Tim Robbins goes that's where I wanna go I wanna go to see what's in a home Mexico and their plan is to meet there so at the end the movie the beach scene is


and I didn't realize this and it is a beautiful a very special place along the coast along the Pacific coast of Mexico small town and it was absolutely magical so that's where I just got back from and this was not only at all for that in fact I did not know really that this was going to be a major theme of the of the week this was a a retreat

hi can I ask you

a question yeah

you're a you're a self proclaimed to luminosity all right all right I'll just forget about it not at all not at all how does this compare to present day and previous day hello is it the same day it's

not even not in it now it's not it's not even anything even like old saloon it would be like before anything was built like really talking about us a small authentic town of mostly locals with a ton of beautiful beach area and it's particularly well known for its surfing so a lot of people surf and it's just yes just where the jungle meets the ocean so it's not as bad you tell their

haha no

no there's


nothing like that there so here's what kick off so I did a


psilocybin magic mushrooms ceremony and the first thing I wanted to open up with is that I learned many things but the most important thing one of the most important things that I learned is that these


with that which you can look at them that way magic mushrooms psilocybin the psychedelic sex must be treated with utmost respect there are

very powerful

very very very powerful that can not be understated and most people do this stuff recreationally you know we all know that that's like most of the conversation is around that so for me personally and I'm gonna be looking at at some of the notes that I have just as a as a note if you're

if you're

wondering why I'm looking at my phone because there's a lot that I think is very important around all of this so I personally I've waited my whole life to to do this


I've done


but I've always been very apprehensive because I wanted to make sure that when I really do a proper dose of full dose and really go into a full journey in an experience that it's done at the right time with the right people in the right place

because I'm

I'm very sensitive to all


various inputs Wetherby cannabis




even alcohol I'm a deep thinking person as maybe you might have noticed on this podcast and I also tend to be an extractor so whatever you give me I'm going to extract a hundred percent of it to the best of my ability before I move forward into the next building block of information so even if I'm reading an article it's like I've read that same article three times before I continue the rabbit holes so I'm I'm always extracting so I've been very apprehensive about this I've achieved similar states in the float tank with cannabis with meditation very similar states of mind and I thought that that's very very important thing to mention as well is that a lot of people assume that you know you take magic mushrooms in Q. blasting off into another realm into certain degree you absolutely are but I want people to know as well to those people listen up so there are like I am and never do work of psychedelics or drugs for that matter of any kind I want people to know that you can absolutely enter the same realm of consciousness and experience


even if I may dare say a mystical states which will get into through these other vehicles this is not the only way so I think that's like just important context and discover

so are you saying you've achieved equivalent levels of mental state in meditation as your question journey in in Mexico

I said this in one of our recent episodes of said this in the got up so that I I have three times where I've achieved I've gone to that it's just it she does a stupid word I've

gone to that same realm

and I've experienced the same feeling and had a similar experience but not to the degree and not to the intensity and not for the length of time on mushrooms I had that experience for four hours

okay so meditation you drove by Disney world and mushrooms you want and you rode all the rides via okay

yeah so


most people do this stuff recreationally and what I learned by doing it this way through ceremonies that it's very very different when you do it recreationally you are essentially rolling the dice if you're very diligent about set and setting you probably will get lucky and have a good experience but you're mostly just walking around maybe your nature you're exploring something maybe with friends in a house and you're just like okay we're gonna be safer to do it the right way we're gonna listen to good music and you have a great experience don't get me wrong maybe you have a few insights but he tripped out you have fun and you call it a day maybe do it on the mountains like you know so one of the reasons I didn't do it in Washington on the hike as well a I was like exhausted after like a ten mile hike the beat


wanted to actually prepare for this experience because my intuition was telling me that this was my opportunity to do it and do it all the way which was terrifying to me it was a lot to think about and then there's another way in which people do it which is therapeutic which I'm a huge advocate of and we've talked about that I think we should talk about that a little bit

so what was what you did different than the therapeutic one because yes I think I am I have that to the same in my mind yeah what what was the intention of why you did it

why I personally board is like

if it was like a group thing right

so what like what was like the stated

purpose of it I assume you guys were like all right


get **** up on much

mmhm so therapeutic is also guided you're there with a professional a psychiatrist or psychologist or some sort of medical professional and you know there's some people there doing this like under the table you can contact certain people and depending on the state your in laws and things like that there's other areas in which you're you're doing this in particular with with mushrooms you know Hopkins University has done tremendous incredible studies on this

and you're

you're doing this legally it's being studied and this is probably the first psychedelic that will become legal legalized like medicinal therapy right and when you're doing it in that way you're generally in a room they're putting on music maybe sometimes they're

giving you an eye mask

and they're they're talking to you and working you through trauma or whatever particular mentor help mental health issue you have a ceremony the way I did it is like well it wasn't just like let's let's go trip

I I figured yeah it and I and I'm and I'm not

here to speak about anybody else for me it was an opportunity to do it the right way and I didn't even know what that meant but I knew that I wanted to be in a in a place where I was outside so that was important in nature and I wanted it to be led by someone very experienced to seen a huge realm of different experience and I wanted it to be a spiritual experience more than a therapeutic mental health experience now if mental health became a part of my experience sure if that was my personal attention but when you go when you do it in the therapeutics setting what you should expect is that you're there you're there with a medical professional and that's a very different thing they're there to guide you through

mental health

challenges which is beautiful but this is like up to you it's what is your intention and each person who comes to that ceremony brings their own intention and that is the first most important thing in this whole experience is like what's the book and I don't mean to sound like I'm I'm bashing it but like what is most people's intention when they do mushrooms it

yes ma'am

like what what what was the last time somebody did anything with intention I have no I idea I haven't I don't I don't smoke weed with intention I don't I didn't do mushrooms in Joshua tree with intention but Eric if you remember which we talked about this briefly in one of our episodes right and I'm sorry actually went there so we didn't talk about it we never got to talk about this but if you remember from the real life experience that second night when we had a little bit of intention do you remember the profound difference that made in our experience

definitely I think like I wanna hear more about your your journey because you know I I'm pretty categorized as one of those guys who does it recreationally but I put that in quotes because like I don't think anyone that I know does it the way that you're describing I think recreationally is like to serve a term I think you you're you're I'm typically doing it for fun partially but also to experience something dramatically different to like see another side of the world from a new perspective then you don't normally do and that's like that's partially recreational it's also like it's an adventure you know it's like it's like a an exploration so it's like a different been recreating you know like I'm not like going out on a boat on the Lake Tribune white clothes and let him know early wake boarding or something this is it's a different it's a different thing like I I think your Pooh poohing how other people use it and you're just the anointing your experience as this like way better thing than everybody else and it's like I think it's to each their own you know how how people experience this drug is it can be done intentionally or you can find really cool **** in unintentional ways as well

what would be the purpose of that just to have a good time and to find really cool ****

now to explore my friend to explore sounds like it's engine when I'm doing it like I'm seeing like okay so let me talk about a couple of my experience is just very quickly because I do want to hear yours I've seen my own path I have seen the universe I have seen visuals like I've seen the the ground beneath me turn into the surface of the moon these are all things that like I didn't intend to do I didn't search for that but in doing psilocybin I found it and that's cool

and I

it's changed my perspective you know what you might've changed her perspective in this intentional way I have also done that it doesn't have to be guided sometimes you just do it and then you get there

but we are saying the same thing what I'm saying is by Pooh poohing if that's how came off that's fair on these other pathways to doing it


ended up arriving in similar places that's great because I think that's what mushrooms do but what I'm driving at is if a person were to go into the situation with that type of intention they can extract and experience that same thing that you're describing so much more and experience the full benefits of the medicine which before this experience when I heard people call it medicine I laughed another thing I used to laugh about with ceremonies I judged the ceremonies I'm gonna be brutally honest here ice I've seen and I still think I'm right about this a large group like large groups of people especially these like new age spiritual people that do this stuff that do the ceremonies all the time and get the same messages and continue to go back and get the same message and oftentimes I think you know I I forget whose quote this is but it's like when you pick up the phone and you get the message like hang up the phone like you got you got it and I think we become addicted to the experience often times and it's becomes a little bit cult like and come to the community wants to draw you back into the ceremonies and so you feel inclined to continue doing these and I kind of judge them from the outside again a little bit but I also learned a lot of people have a lot of work to do and they continue to do the ceremonies because they're barely just beginning to peel back layers of the onion so I can't judge that my experience was extreme it was the type of experience where I won't need to do this maybe ever again for the rest of my life for maybe for a year I have no idea but I know it's not a month from now and I know that I no longer interested in doing it recreationally because I know the power so back to my very first point here like all I'm really saying is that yes this is a fun thing like you can do a little bit and you can get the giggles and I forget what it's called because our guide I had a name for it so I can

not knows none of Santos it's like a a local word for like the the child like spirits that arrive through the medicine that make you giggle

the travel experience yeah as a way better spent on it

yeah they're like these little giclee did the child inside of you that comes out when you do a little bit and that's like we're we're I've only ever experienced is like this is fun

this is cool like that now I have this respect

and this reverence for the plants that I know what it's capable of that I had no and that that I had no idea so like

so I do have a question yeah the back row my question the front comes is if like for when I'm listening to you talk about this politically like part of me is just thinking like what is the first time you've ever done it like every other time you just took nibbles now you **** went for it and you felt the power like when you go for it you feel it

yeah I just yes after the experience all I all I would say to people that have done full doses of it


if you're already like into this and you're already open and you're not apprehensive like I was like I would highly recommend doing it in a ceremonial weigh so let me explain what that looks like so it was guided the set and setting was right I was with a trusted group of people I was in nature I went into it with the right mindset that's the set I was in the what to NATO I did a full dose four grams they gave him the option to take between two and four


could you

could you put this in chocolate bar terms

well was chocolate to it was chocolate

pre designated lousy launches choruses this

I think it's the whole bar

the whole bar yeah

I think it's the whole bar I have no idea how many grams or one of those but I'm pretty sure it's

yeah for sounds like a lot you had the equivalent of like over an eighth of stems and caps like if you waited out yeah and how was it given to you because this is that this is a question I had she kisses chocolates yeah

and it was like locally made from mushrooms locally procured blended with lion's mane for some mind opening adaptogenic properties with some niacin to help you digest and process before we did some Kakao which some people do Cacau ceremonies as as

as as

as you may be aware of so we ate some cow first which is like a heart opener on air quotes America would sing but it was

all this mix in the chocolate garlic uses our towers with your

beans right there did those first sat down on a yoga mat in a semi circle with the guide in the middle with her instruments she had another guy with her who also was there to play instruments and help guide and she began with a as she began by passing out the cow starting to set the you know intention helping us get the right state of mind did a like a a somewhat of like a local prayer I felt so connected just to the environment that I was in just from the Kakao alone passed around the mushrooms for two chocolates two grams each said I recommend you take between three and four if you want a full experience so like one and a half to two in that moment like all of my fear and apprehension was just gone I was like just so ready for some reason I took the first chocolate enjoyed it you know she was explaining everything she's beautiful voice we took the chocolates and we began


yoga nidra meditation so yoga nidra for those that don't know is a a state of mind between


pure like wakefulness and when you're sleep so like the the app that I always recommend insight timer has a bunch of great yoga nidra meditation Senate I do them at night like to help me fall asleep we did a yoga nidra meditation head to toe relaxation and we did a a opening of all the seven shockers which was absolutely incredible so we started with this and so these at this point you're like twenty minutes and it takes like forty really right for the mushrooms to really start kicking in so like twenty minutes and we're at the point we're doing the pening the roots opening the belly the solar plexus opening the heart opening the throat opening the third eye opening the crown and it's like all these things that I've always been like what ever like what is that mean but in that moment oh my god man you literally feel these things opening your cleansing them and I believe the purpose of this was to actually purify and open these portals gateways openings to energy I mean I can't even believe I'm saying this stuff but I'll get there and you'll see why I'm saying this stuff

I could

and it starts kicking in by the way so she's passed out like out like a sleep mask should pass actually she passed all of them triples

so she should

she passed out the sleep masks and the moment that you gave me the sleep mask so my mind my intention manner this so many interesting things on talk


chance of the sleep mask in one of the the the kind of like intuitive feelings I had was that I needed to wear this sleep mask for the majority of the of the of the experience I ended up wearing a four hours straight which no yes which which which no one else did and I I don't know why I guess it's again back to like the apprehension and wanting to do it and go all the way and like this is like the old blues like Terence McKenna like if you wanna find god do four grams do full dose mushrooms with with with a blind for a man with the iron mask on and so

she said yeah she said if you would like to have she said this mushroom that I'm giving you is locally grown and I made it and all the stuff that if you would like to have a more intellectual experience keep your eye mask on if you would like to think can explore excuse me if you'd like to explore more outwardly more physically take it off and choose your own adventure so like we're under a Papa work next to the beach it's one of the most beautiful beaches I've seen in my life so if you wanted to you could take it off you could go explore you could look at the plants you do whatever you wanted I decided to stay with her the whole time so we do the you can yoga nidra and guys please look literally feel free to Energex doors or questions or whatever I'm just exciting and keep going and she is this like a ray of instruments in front of her and she has this incredible voice and she's singing in like I don't even know what language she was even saying things it was in Spanish it was


ancient she actually said that the name of the the tribe from that area that wasn't like the ink was something specifically to that area of Mexico I wish I'd written it down I'll get a firmer and she was singing and she eventually picks up the first instrument at this point the mushrooms have kicked in but I don't know it yet but they're fully in my body and she grabs this beautiful instrument and I didn't realize this but basically my experience was all of a sudden I heard a sound and I hear the sound and I couldn't tell if the sound was coming from outside of me or inside of me I literally had a moment I had a long moment where all I thought about was is this coming from my brain or is this the woman playing the sound and I started to disassociate and lose


sense of body and the music was blending with my body and my body was playing with the music and the firemen the wind

ocean sound

and then I'm just starting to be gone and she starts to sing when the first portion of my experience was suddenly like this like just boom so fast and so hard I've never thought about

any of these things before my life

all of a sudden all these people these ancient people from that land entered my psyche

now and

they were there to help facilitate the experiences

they're talking to you you saw they were just

there there were there were present I felt their presence these were like the people who discovered this medicine who made this moment possible it was like her lineage of ancestors of teachers who taught her mom and her mom's mom and her mom's mom and her mom's mom how to share this experience with people

how to facility this is why I realised

show deep at Mike flock well not **** the therapeutics parents like because that's it I don't want to go there because that is something maybe I also want to try that has its own purpose due to this plan I believe is meant to be

experienced this way it is all of

that the land it


something that has

thousands of years of tradition behind it

and when you go when you experience it in that way

you tap into something you tap

into that that


of what that was I mean they arrived and I was just like in deep **** gratitude like I've never felt my life like thank you for letting me be here thank you for letting me experience those thank you for the opportunity thank you to this beautiful woman for facilitating this experience with her beautiful voice and her beautiful energy and like that was like a huge part of my first experience was like I was just like flooded with with with gratitude for so long

do you ever stop to think that this just grows out of cow ****

it does

sure it's the stupidest thing I'm I'm actually sorry villa it's all it's all that you said it's also **** stupid like we eat cow **** growth fungus area and everything Grove cash it it's fertilizer yes that's sent so in regards to the gods he talks about that

like deeply he talks about the symbiotic relationship that human beings have had with cows and the plants and this song is the mushroom to magic mushroom and scientists are split on this idea of like what is it our ability to cook food that expanded our brains or was it mushrooms that expanded our brains and our intellect and our consciousness that allowed for us to accomplish some of these things so while it's like dumb and yeah I came from cal **** it actually might be the origin of why we are conscious Centene beings at all so I think that's pretty **** profound

I think there's something poetic about the fact that from this discarded


you know the cow comes your spiritual experience it's it it's gonna it's kind of a crazy wise it they're beautiful why is it there

that's a great question

did you did you hear about the history of this because it it sounded like your guide was a descendant

of the area right

yeah so did did you do something that was identical to what people did like hundreds thousands of years ago or was it like what what what what what is this go back to as far as you understand it

I don't know I try to look that up

I'm I'm not a legal driver and talking about

if you said I'll I I'll know right away but Michy Wakanda is

different ancestor the first guy I went to the **** cashews

you know what

I'm gonna eat this how many this and all his buddies are like you don't do that don't eat the cow ****


this this was the birth this was the birth of a you know human consciousness it apparently

we're not the only mammals that are you know into it and seek arm hallucinogenic you know experiences like chimpanzees butterflies a butterfly this is all in food of the gods and again there is no definitive answer on this like stoned ape theory like it could be that mushrooms word the catalyst to consciousness and human evolution or it could be that we've figured out fire and learn how to cook our meals and that save time and energy and you know got more **** calories and efficiently but I still think it's fascinating and I think that whatever it is there's something incredibly powerful there so my intention the you guys you guys are like this so my my intention you feel like you're like this next thing so my my intention was everyone has like the you're told to have a very clear intention going into this because it's a guide to the whole experience because you don't want to unravel into just like analysts like wherever it takes you so my intention was still quite broad it was I wanted to know what the true nature of reality is

the small intention I have one request from the from the guys the guys are like is that all yes so

that's probably why I knew that I needed to do the full dose


be under the blindfold for four hours because it was quite a quite mask

wait what did you choose the blindfold intellectual because I wanted yeah the internet experience

instead of like oh look at the butterfly a look at this guy okay look at the look at the

I see that for you

look at the view the

so did you


the nature of reality yes he wants I don't think I absolutely okay I could see your face late on and you have a confidence about you and right here in my iPhone notes

yeah I did and what's funny is that was my intention but the the first experience I mean again I'm part of what I got from the plant was how important this honesty in my voices to share these things actually so the first lesson was the Italian believable it was about this podcast


and the one of the the take aways that was like undeniable I literally sat there and I was talking with my higher self with consciousness going back and forth about this and the message was how important it is to to share and use my voice that I've been given in this life around some ideas that were given to me and maybe this is one of them maybe this is the start of that to to be able to share that dot in and of itself was a deeply profound experience around my purpose and I think that's a common experience a lot of people share

it is

these questions is trivial questions around how should I shop in life for what is the what is the meaning for me and what is my purpose for which I'd be doing or what's how do I solve this dilemma all of that just like becomes so simple and trite like every problem I had or challenges I wanted to explore going to this thing just became like


like gone so then began my journey into okay you got the **** out of the way like what what is the true nature of of of reality so I I became one with consciousness and it became absurdly clear that as as physicists debate over we talked about in the god absurd we talk about the big problem we talk about the consciousness problem does consciousness come of the mind or is it outside the mind are we in inhabitants you know and that was just like


so so clear that caught that that the consciousness that exists within me is universal and for ever and this eight AM less and less awareness that I have just the opportunity to be aware of in this lifetime it was just like I became one it was like this analysts think cloudy beautiful energy that I that I became one with

a long time are you saying that what you describe as your own consciousness is purely you tapping into something else that's like meeting through the entire universe are you saying you have your own consciousness but also you are able to tap into the collective consciousness of the universe

say it again in a different way

all in a different way source added as garnish no no I I like it I I'm paying attention to the details of the question that's all it sounded like to me you were describing you're caught you're the you're you're asking if your consciousness is sort of like internally or externally

Tehran mmhm

and you're saying Q. discovered that what you perceive as consciousness was actually you just tapping into an external


is that accurate


is that external thing just this collective consciousness the higher universe the the entire university you you're simply just tapping into it

the way experiences me Armand being awake and alive right now is a form of that collective consciousness that exists in the universe and that for me too I essentially became one with the consciousness of all individual beings and of all individual consciousness that exists in the entire universe or universe is and also is a part of the collective consciousness that encapsulates all of that I literally winds to the extreme and I mean this wasn't just like I snap my fingers and went there this was an hour of moving with the music everything she was saying going through different emotions and and thoughts and ideas and grappling with it too eventually eventually get to the point where I lost I mean basically another way to put it is like pure ego dissolution like complete loss of personal identity realizing that

actually my individual identity isn't

a part

of the fabric of existence

so so then one of my struggles personally as a the person who you know thinks deeply about things as I


honestly struggled with this question

of death

what would it be like to go to sleep and never wake up again and yes funny because the more of a deep thinker you are the more you're forced to to go there and the more of a philosopher you try to be which really is an exercise in how to live and die Welt is how I think of philosophy you're forced to go there and it was like I went into this euphoria of experience of pure ego dissolution and understanding the true nature of reality in the true nature of who I am but then all of a sudden this thought came in the back of my mind was like wool if you want to know the true nature of reality you only know half the equation you know what it is to be conscious do you know what it is to die that was the thought that was presented to me and then I wanted to resist and I was scared for a moment but it was so gentle and inviting those that it was so easy to move toward death and I just kept moving more and more toward it and I had a guide with me I had my friend with me that I was speaking to throughout parts of the journey and asking him questions and that's a whole other thing for people that I think they would find really interesting to be able to to connect with loved ones like really connect I really really really did and I I as I moved to toward


which I thought was just gonna be this like black empty hole of nothingness instead I come to find that it's like this it just all of a sudden I was in it I I was I was I was the other it was like a light switch it was like you're either on or you're off

and it's like to

it was the paradox was like

two sides of a coin

and it felt like the most peaceful abundant beautiful enlist deep energy I've ever experienced in my entire life and the way I experience it was like a the word that came to me to because one of the aspects of mystical experience we can talk about that if you guys want is one of things they measure when people do psilocybin or psychedelic any kind is did you have a mystical experience and there's thirty questions did you go through and there's four or five factors that have them written down and one of them is enough ability your inability to describe the experience so at times

I was having

experiences that are just impossible to put into words but the word of god for death was it was like a cosmic ocean and that what we are in this lifetime is like the experience of a wave the lands on the shore this is literally what I saw I saw my life my life is this wave that landed on the shore of the beach right there and it was temporary and then when I'm done I just go right back into the cosmic ocean

Eric you're nodding your head do you have like a similar type of a conclusion or experience when it came out in nodding my head almost throughout this whole thing because I'm I'm like a proud of have you for feeling all that I I'm I'm happy you went through this I'm also like


noticing so many similarities in my experience isn't doing the stuff and it's like oh my god let me you said that right now he said he

had an experience with with dental and eye and

it like I went I went one layer deeper was like thank god you're the one telling this story because you're so good at it this is like something we talked about on a day of Hoffman's balcony one evening we were like all giving each other compliments of like what what we're all good at I remember telling telling Armand that like

we can all

but once we arrive at the same place you're so much better at describing and like transferring the knowledge or the experience to somebody else in the this is a perfect example that like I've experienced so many of these things you're describing but the way you're telling the story is so much better than what I would tell

well see my my I have no ego anymore about that where now I've been told buy a consciousness by god literally again the dirty words from that episode but like I

say I mean

I mean it as this pure endless infinite energy right I've been told that's what I'm supposed to do

is like

put it into words and like just get it out there so like I

like it again it's like

these things of like you know it's not none of these like human ego driven things are the same anymore you know it they're they're different selected the I appreciate that too and but yet at the same time it's like

so this is what I a couple couple stats I think is really interesting about mystical experiences so mystical experiences are you know I mentioned this to in that episode that you know there's literally like a this is empirical science like

it's measured as the Emmy QS mystical experience questionnaire

yes I already sent the already sent the link to slice who included in the show notes for people who've ever

done psychedelics and or maybe you your excuse me you're just meditating and you can look at this question are you can ask yourself like cold that I have mystical experience there's thirty questions five points each I scored a hundred and forty eight out of a hundred and fifty I did this humble right I got it no no no it's the

the only areas I docked

I docked intentionally like I was just like okay let me like

docks and you're uncomfortable with your perfect

yeah I was

I truly was so I dont

like that I like because the five is like it's the most of this experience you know that you've that you've had let me give you some examples so there's four categories and

let me

let me go back really quick so two months after their session

the the study on psilocybin says

most participants rated their psilocybin and Nick if you have more data you want to share that even looking up please jump in most participants rated their psilocybin session is among the top five seventy one percent of people the top five or single most thirty three percent said spiritually significant experience


their lives

it was two months after you said

yes I'm three days after so in two months seventy one percent say top five and thirty three percent single most significant experience spiritually significant experience of their of their lives and what this measures is how mystical was it how positive was the mood how transcendent were you of time and space and the inevitable enough ability

of the

experience and the clear thing about mystical experiences they have a clear operational definition and the value of mystical experience in terms of predicting positive outcomes for people in their lives forever has been empirically demonstrated so I walked out of this experience and during the experience ecstatic shaking it was a lot it was a lot and


really funny and interesting moment in this journey was after I died so I didn't say that so I didn't just think about death ray like the the voice which whatever you wanna call that consciousness said to me is like look like your intention was to know the true nature of reality thank you here do you want do you want to know but it wasn't like are you are you worried like you know it was just so gentle so gentle and it just kind of brought me forward and it was like yeah it's okay but come on you ready for this you can do this and in order to do that I had two weeks not just think intellectually about what I told you I had to experience it I had to be common so I diet I went into the cosmic ocean and I ducked and when I died I was maybe three three and a half hours into the experience and then the guide this whole time just for this reason alone it would be worth doing ceremony the music instruments the

but you signing

for hours straight the whole time if you could just imagine like a good yoga class with like a teacher who is just singing and playing music and like a beautiful spiritual experience like without the mushrooms the most beautiful music and experience a performance of ever seen in my life at that moment synchronicity happens I posted a synchronicity video a scientific version of what this is in in the discord yesterday a synchronicity happens check this out she pulls up an instrument and as she pulls this instrument she walks around


the area where everyone is lying down and brings it closer to them to really kind of like make it part of their personal experience not just play the music but like you know bring it right up against your you kind of crown of your head and the instrument she is holding in plank is like this like symbols almost like this twinkly sound and all of a sudden as I'm first thing again as I'm being reborn I go back to the first memory I've ever **** had of a toy that was it was a it was like this little toy my parents would like turn the knob and would play this music to me as a kid it was exactly the same sound as I heard in that moment and I'm like entering my baby body from Armand baby becoming reborn is entering my body again

and it's the same the same management

exacted you

were you taking the blindfold off that

no I still wasn't ready


I still wasn't ready but that was the first time like a lot you know like some people have healing experiences they cry a lot or things come up for the my experience was in that but in that moment it was definitely really touching to be reborn like that and it was it was touching it was a secret I've had many synchronicity is this was synchronicity level ten another thing that I think is really important to mention that is just enough aboard an explainable is that there was the consciousness is so the other reason that I am absolutely certain that consciousness exists outside of the brain is that there was a consciousness in the area that existed that I tapped into I felt


other people were experiencing there were no words there was up out another another person in

in in the group and

I felt an

energy of a warrior spirit

this person wanted to like Braveheart and so like for a half hour twenty minutes of my experience




the **** wherever we are in my mind in a battle royale of meeting this guy's energy and wrestling and fighting and bringing out this like warriors pocket spirit of like being a man being a warrior in like duking it out in the heavens and have no idea this is happening for this person as well and this happened for many people

and again I don't want to go into their hotels to a wrestling match with the warriors

yes while

one this is like the same one is it

the same one what

was the same spirit you are wrestling

it was the same experience

same having your own version of yes


but with the experience of the same


while some even I would listen for you you've done a lot of these you've done a lot of psychedelic so is any of this resonating with you and you have like similar experiences or even wanted to go a lot of things listen I'm probably like four times thank you the qualifies a lot I I the first time that you're no no I'm I'm not popping these things like candy although I I I like it I like it there this is the first time I did mushrooms I saw colors which is a big deal for me because I can't see colors and that was like really trippy to me I remember looking at like a like a palm tree and I was like oh my god


that's green it was the first time ever saw green and then I woke up and I remember waking up the next day looking outside everything looked dead and I was like very depressed everything looked brown that I I never realized how brown everything looked until after experiencing everything not brown so that that that was bummer

are there certain colors or all that

I don't I don't know because I I don't have your I don't have your frame of reference I only know about what you see from what you tell me like I've never I've never done a controlled experiment where like I see color and then I go back to my brain where I don't see color I just only know what I T. about the world you know for all I know your oranges my blue and that have no idea you have no idea whether that was a great H. as in to me that in the experience of like driving down the highway and over and having like hi def vision where I could look look at the car next to me and I could see like the hub caps like just rotating slowly I could read like every license plate on the highlight just a Agassi everything that was it was really weird I can see everything that was happening and I just had the impression that like we there's a lot of data in the world there's like a lot of stuff happening there's a lot of sensory experience and I I realize that our brains are designed to filter stuff because if we took it all and we would just be paralyzed with information but I think we also close off to a lot of what's happening in that I feel like that ties into meditation because a lot of meditation is about being like residents and just simply observing what's happening around you I've done these experiments experience is rather like

seafood got talks about his accident he said

okay yeah yeah yeah

they were just the brain has learned to tune in to only as much as it can tolerate and handle and perhaps well not perhaps this is literally the part that's empirical what we understand about what LSD and psilocybin due to the brain which they're very very very similar they they they go through the same journey the only differences L. as the last for eight hours were whereas so seven last like three four is that all of that noise shuts down and the openness that is possible to tune into like perhaps the true nature of reality some people argue against that I understand that's up for debate but I think that's what people experience and is the consistent result of experience of mystical states when it comes to school so I was like the antennas turning back on and we're tuning into all this data and information that exists that we've been tuning out for so long

that's good I have nothing to add to that I I am I have a question lot of another question all of us but I'm going to not well I have another question for Armand and one is is more of just like a it's gonna be like a handshake about this like idea of ego dissolution one thing that happened when we were all together well Nick wasn't there but when we were in Joshua tree I was going through this like idea of of the self and there's like two selves and this is like from the untethered soul there you have like this this self that that you you know you can touch your arm like that's my arm but then you have this like being inside of you this consciousness and I was like asking sort of the universe's myself Ameren Josh Richardson so which one am I and I remember a moment right like we're we're probably outside for hours in same in the same way but I never had P. and I go to the bathroom and I look in the mirror I see myself in the mirror like this guy I'm like oh that's me but what the **** does okay like I felt like I was completely different I was like this this like consciousness is like being it's like connected with the universe that is like this you know all encompassing energy and then I I went to the Maryland nurses that guy and that was weird like that was really weird to me that was like that story was more like an acknowledgement of like how I felt similarly to you but my real question is like do you feel more certainty now or do you feel more uncertain after having gone through this experience certain


is there a specific out everything I mean like I felt when I started when I come out of it I I feel like I understand the universe but I almost feel like I'm so it's it's like a what's that Steven universe what's that knowledge Kerr were you like you feel like the first book you read you feel at home in government etcetera then like you learn a little more I don't know anything and then and you're slowly like building experience or knowledge you don't talk about it yeah



yeah we we debate we kind of went

yeah I I feel like a bit of Dunning Kruger when I do the psychedelic it's like I'm exposed to so much more it's like oh my god I'm lost you know like but but and there's a moment early that's the universe but then I'm like holy **** I'm now I'm lost

I've never felt so certain about something that's kind of that's that's how I feel

about the nature of reality

all of it all of it was the most and this is actually one of the questions on the mystical questionnaires like the level of certainty you personally have around the nature of your experience I've never experienced that I think the difference is that as I said in the beginning when I when I've gone to float tank I've had wild experiences the floating of had wild experiences meditating in particular those three times where I just blasted off but there were glimpses and what this provided was like a direct channel just there was no friction to the source it was just poem on there I'm in a I'm bathing in it comes there it is on deniable and that's really good for me I know I speak for everybody that's really good for me for a person who explores really intensely deep ideas about about existence I think to experience something so profound is really good for people and I know for sure that this is like a time stamp on the rest of my life another experience I had was that I imagined so I've mentioned on the podcast recently that I'm expecting a baby girl and I am

I had

a vision and experience of being with her back there at that ceremony after years of telling her about that ceremony and sharing that ceremony with her and the guy that was there

was there

as well older and I told her this after the ceremony tales like it maybe maybe it's you we'll see my happen to be you and I went through this whole experience of watching my daughter goes through that same exact that's the level of certainty in how profound this has been for for me it's only like I would say there's there's another really important thing to mention here the depth of of of like I've always said that I'm a spiritual person but I don't fall into any buckets of like how people think about these things we talked about this on the card is a little bit I also talked about like Spinoza's god and how pantheism is the closest thing that I've ever come to like god but now I like

experienced it

I I I I became it that's completely different it wasn't an intellectual thought exercise a became the think that's completely different and for the first time in my life I don't know why many use this word but it's the only word and it's again a dirty word like god so please don't attach alternate meeting but I prayed I prayed harder and deeper than I've ever prayed in my life and that was also a consistent experience and since then I've been prank every single day I turn on music that is similar to the experience that I was in and it's like this deep deep reverence this respect for what I am and what I connected to it that's the only way I can explain it is like is like because because I I've watched like you watch like you look at like an image of prayer right like you in the eastern world or in the western world we look like church or how people pray like to go like this really put their hands up or to get on their knees and they or they put their hands together like I was doing all these things during the ceremony that I've never done in my life before and my hands like this on my on my third eye and I don't even know why it was there I don't know I was there I was just doing it mystical all my god oh my god oh my god it was just like flowing through me like uncontrollably like what are you supposed to do with that when you experience it to that degree and you can't help it like that's the only reason I'm sharing this stuff is like it was it was so real

you know it's like it was just

undeniable and so I didn't even know what it meant to be spiritual I guess to the degree that I understand it for me now is what I would say and I would definitely say that I am now an advocate for this


opportunity and medicine I think it can be really healing and enlightening and helpful for a lot of


I think a lot of people are deeply awake a sweep and this can really help set certain people in the right direction it can be a profound experiences the studies show for sure

the dam


so do you

do you have anything out there well I'm just curious like the clothes are some resources we were listening like if someone doesn't know anything about this doesn't even you know hasn't even played around with this what would you be on the like experience itself like what would you tell them I like that the benefits like why would they want to go do this is it to feel some deeper kind of spiritual feeling is it like other like long term benefits that you think they would get from it like what would be the the draw for someone to try it out

well beyond what I've mentioned I I think that I can only point to I don't know but the long term benefits because I'm only a few days out so that's what I know so far but when I look at the psilocybin studies and I see in two months for seventy one percent of people it's like a top five life experience and that their openness up from a psychological perspective is higher the creativity is higher their fear of death is removed they're healthier and more conscious of what how they're treating their bodies there are more aware of how they're treating the environment and the planet that's a whole segment of my experience that I'm leaving out I tapped into for the first time in my life why the environment matters and I didn't care really too much about this stuff before to be completely honest with you

it was

all an intellectual masturbation about what's right and what's wrong and in that moment I realized like all excesses greed and human beings on this planet are the symbiotic relationship with the planet and we need the planet but we only needed to the degree in which we need to extract the resources we need to live it appropriate life but that all excess beyond that is disgusting and I felt that disgusting nature of consumption to a degree that I've never felt in my life before so that was another thing

and I think just being able to walk out with a sense of inner peace


calm and non reactivity and taking all of these things that seemed important before doing the ceremony that I would stress about that are now like quite trivial I think there's an endless number of of benefits and each person chooses their own journey based on their intention and one thing I got out of it is that some people need more than one or seven to really do the work because there's a lot of work to do for some people and so each time you can show up with a different intention okay I'll mention a few rate you're kind of driving toward resources so before the ceremony I came across this book it just happened to be there called consciousness medicine by France swab result will include it in the show notes thank god because there were a series of questions around intention and how to mentally prepare for the ceremony that was tremendously helpful and then afterward my afterglow lasted for a long time I actually had the only challenge I had was after the ceremony I was so moved out there they're coming down was hard

in like re integrate has come down


both of those things that

once I took the mask off and I tried to re integrate and talk to people it was really hard it was hard man it was hard to put words together I had a lot of energy in my body and I couldn't quite put my thoughts together because they were so extreme like this is honestly the first time I'm really getting a chance to put the thoughts like turn these experiences into words so thank you guys but their integration tips in the book which really helped okay what type of experience did you have did you have an experience of healing did you have an experience of ego dissolution

so I went to the

ego dissolution section and they're all these tips

for what to do

to properly integrate and turn the experience into lasting change into your being based on the experience of I highly recommend that Michael Pollan's documentary on Netflix is a must watch how to change your mind in particular the psilocybin episode and then I mention food of the gods

and the mystical experience questionnaire so

yeah I'm looking at this book now

it's it's good it was just what I needed and it landed the fourth book right time it's what's his books you don't need to read front to back you just kind of go to the section that's relevant and kind of choose based on the on the experience so I feel I feel like there's a lot of people that would be intrigued by

this now and I would still go back to my original point of like treated with respect and it's very powerful and just make sure you kind of go into it with with some good set setting in an intention you know yeah

that was wild thank you

yeah I hope it was useful in some way

I mean I was

I was rather captivated by it

maybe want to book a flight to Mexico

honestly I I I I will be totally honest with you Stephen I know you really well at this point I think all four of us would like really really enjoy an experience like that and it wouldn't when would never be the same but in particular I thank you view

you would all enjoy if I had a I mean

you're you need this I think you're the most open and are likely to have a level of experience as as I had just just knowing you I think everyone have a very different experience as they should and and it would give them what they need this give you what you want to give you what you need there was another that was a thing in the consciousness medicine book you know faith surrender all and acceptance like curiosity and acceptance that's that's the motto when you go into this very important very important but I feel like you you would you would really enjoy to a level that a lot of people like yeah you'd you'd walk out with some insights for sure current

she noted

the conflict

for anyone that's curious like yeah I hop in the discord and ask you questions and let's keep talking and I'd be happy to I think this is okay to connect with

the the guide the facilitator what's

what's our discord alfalfa pod dot com

alfalfa piles upon dot com dot com yes that's what it is if you're not already in there off of a pot dot com hop in the lounge is a live channel and tag me and yeah if anybody would would like to connect with in particular I think it's good to go as group you know private group I believe is all she really does sell yeah

all right read thank you for that

thank you I'm on

it grows we're going on a horrible

psychedelic monologue but hope it was useful our guys until next time until

I guess is post merger already by the time to be with those virtual host

Eric marriage all might be a lot of a lot of things happening

all right

we love you guys you guys in the shared consciousness

your channel

he's he's