Is StepN Sustainable? Behind the Fastest Growing Game in Crypto - Yawn Rong, Co-Founder, StepN, Ep. 200 - Transcripts

June 07, 2022

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How are some users getting paid to walk?   StepN is a Walk-to-Earn mobile app and in less than 6 months, they managed to amass 1.7 million monthly active users and up to 400k users are using it on a daily basis.   This episode, Co-Founder...


Yeah, ladies and gentlemen gentlemen, welcome to the Block Crunch podcast. They go to podcast for investors and builders in crypto before we get started with today's episode, I've got some great news for our listeners. For those of you looking for an extra edge in crypto. We created Block Crunch V I. P. Just for you. Every week our team at Block Crunch prepares an in depth research memo with a sector analysis project explanation, competitor breakdown and our own in house investment outlook for every project brought onto the show delivered straight to your inbox. We'll do the work so you don't have to, we'll scour discord twitter forums and blocks and help you highlight potential catalysts and provide actionable insights for every project we interview. In addition, we also host exclusive ams with myself to answer any of your questions and all of that is only available to block punch V. I. P subscribers. But the good news is that it costs less than a coffee a week.

So head on over to the block crunch dot com slash V. I. P. Or click the link in the show notes below to sign up. Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of podcast. Now, I'm really, really excited to talk about one of the hottest products in crypto today, which is a project called Steppin. Now Stepan is one of the most exciting stories in crypto this year because they are not just a play to earn game there specifically a move to earn health and fitness application that rewards users for moving around. They first went live last year in December and in less than six months they achieved a record of 400,000 daily active users and that actually might have changed now. So we're gonna, we're gonna check on that in a bit. And also 1.7 million monthly active users on just 26 April of last month, according to the team. And this is already one of the most downloaded fitness apps in the fitness section of the app store today. So I'm really excited to dive into.

What is this move to earn phenomenon, how to step and work and most important at all, is it sustainable? So I'm very excited to have you on from the second team on to discuss all of these. So yeah, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you? Glad to be here,

awesome. So you're calling from a cold Australia. So is there a very vibrant crypto scene in Australia

actually on the east Coast is pretty vibrant. Talk about Brisbane Sydney. But again, Australia, you have isolated cities and the purses. Okay, in South Australia, it'll be slow. But you know, Brisbane and Sydney, definitely the place,

God, I gotta visit sometimes. I've heard so many good things about the Australian scene. We've interviewed a few founders from Australia before as well. But I guess first of all I want to dive into what stepping actually is for people who are not aware, can you help us explain just what is stepping and how does it

work? So we're trying to position ourselves as a lifestyle app. Now basically with a little bit of a game element and the social element in the future where people equipped with uh the sneakers and then they move outside. Either walking or running. And tokens which the token will be used to access a range of the in app game features.

And there's a there's a mobile application for stepping right now that people can download an app store and what do they have to do to kind of start using the app?

So when we design it we are actually trying to onboard non crypto users. So we're having that in our mind so we build everything around the simplicities. So people download the app from the app, store the google or apple will download that and then you need to create a uh decentralized what it accounts. So basically people have to that's sort of the biggest hurdle is to uh write down there, see phrases back up the what it and once they have the word is I think the second hurdle is for them to um uh deposit some kryptos to the wallet. So either the Salon A. Or B. And B. So we're now running on two chainz and then they can start buying a NFC sneakers and then basically start moving through

and these Nfu sneakers are basically their ticket to entry. Right? So you have to buy the sneakers before you can start earning from moving around.

That's correct.

And these sneakers uh is there different tiers of like different N. F. T. Sneakers? Or are they generalized?

We have a lot of, we were trying to build I think the speaker system is pretty complex. So we have several spectrum. So we have the quality level five qualities and then there's four types. And then within the four types you have like four attributes. And then you have four sockets. So it's trying we're trying to design this as essential. Like you know when you play video games you have this item either it's a helmet or it's a weapon and you can either enchant or you can have like a socket. You know it's all the you know game element um From mmr MMO Rpgs. So um we want people to start with something simple like just one pairs and then gradually work their way up to a higher level of quality, higher level sneakers or higher quality sneaker. So then people will spend in the app for a longer time and then they will get in you know a healthy body in the end.

So I know you mentioned there's different tiers of sneakers. Um And I know that the price are freely traded as well so there's obviously volatility in the price. But roughly how much do people need to get started with stepping

uh after the salon to crush. And the entry price now is much more affordable. It's about 600 to 800 bucks. Um, to get started by one. Um, floor price, common sneaker.

So 600 to 800 that's still a relatively high, you know, entry price for an application. So when you guys were thinking about, Hey, should we make, this may be a free to play game versus a kind of gated game. How did you guys kind of decide on that?

Um, we think about the free, free to play. But again, uh, when you, so when you design the app having no sort of a bad entry, sometimes it's not. So also not so good because then you have people flooding in and then um, if you don't have the app ready to on boarding that much people, you gotta get into troubles. So we want to have a barrel entry. But then you free up uh that barrel entry by, let's say rental system because you know, so when I pay people good money for running or working, you will imagine people will want to uh game the system so either they pay people to run or they do other things. So having a rental system in the end will be I think a plausible options in the long long term because you slowly lower that barrier to entry. You're not going to just do with no, no entries barriers right off, right have higher better entry and then you gradually remove that,

that makes a lot of sense. And I can I can see a rental market appearing for Stefan sneakers and it's already appearing for different NFC games as well. So it sounds like the core piece holding all this together is the fact that people can make money by walking around and running around. So where is that revenue coming from?

So you're talking about the revenue, you're gonna talking about two things. That's that's when people are getting the question say um once the user slow down and this is the end of the app. Right? So you heard about this like a death spiral thing. But fundamentally we're going to explain two things. One is that where the money comes from a second is what happened if user slow down. Right? And then meaning that uh eventually there's no money flow in and then you go into the desk virus, right? One where the money comes from. So at the rapid growth rate, your money will come from people that are buying lefty sneakers. So minting lefty sinker actually making pretty good profit. I mean and then people will be selling that to the energy market place to the other users.

Other user buys it and they got into the app referred to their friends, families and expanding the whole ecosystem because we are talking about the move to earn. So basically it's a healthier sort of concept than plato meaning and also with readily available access with the mobile phones and also the concept people were targeted to a much broader audience meaning that not limited to the crypto native, not limited to the you know the gaming industry or gaming ecosystems. So we talk about millions, hundreds of millions of users around the world. So naturally we tap into a much much bigger user base enable you to grow for a very long time and use this very long time basically to build various of flywheels and you're starting to create value because when we are talking about a enclosed ecosystem like for example taxi Or other game five projects is doesn't have external energies and uh and I like to use the entropy theory here is that let's say earth is a relatively say uh enclosed ecosystem but you have to rely the sun to provide energy for everything to strive on the earth. And if as a project we cannot um induce external energies uh to the to the to the to the ecosystem will create then eventually user will slow down growing and then when people are cashing out then your token price cannot support it and then going down. So what we're trying to do here is to use the length of growth let's say 6 to 12 months and we will build various of value propositions and I think with the ASic sneaker is one of them. So basically we're encourage people to use the sneaker basically have the strong functions so something almost we consider um see the success of the board. It's and you have a social value there and we're trying to create a range of social values and basically people are not only um willing to spend, they also went into show off their sneakers. So basically you create a constant sort of onboarding process for people spending the and when your collaborations with other projects or other sneaker brand, you actually are creating values and people are paying for this premium price sneakers for example you know talking about ethics sneakers training around 50 b. And b. roughly prepare. So people are buying for these um other collectibles now rather than a functional sneaker that will earn them tokens.

God it sounds like there's some social value as well. And you actually ask the question that I wanted to ask which is when we look at popular play to earn games like infinity players basically earn revenue through their native tokens, the excess token and slp token and that revenue has value because there's underlying demand for those tokens. There's maybe speculative demand, maybe investors are buying up the tokens. Um So does Stefan also rely on the same kind of speculative demand to prop up the token price in order for walking around to be to be worthwhile for most users or um you know what are the most natural sources of demand for the native token for Steppin.

So we talked about two tokens were having the two token system. One is the G. S. T. Basically people earn Gsc as of now is the game token using the G. S. T. To meet and the GMt on the government side and also to improve the game functionality side. And um that's that's another use. So we'll talk about um the use of the Gsc is mainly being used as meetings and by meeting basically people are creating new sneakers and selling to the to the new users and basically we will be using that to onboard users.

God and is there a recurring aspect to this revenue? So if I as a stubborn user I purchased some GMT token and I mean some GST tokens and I use that to buy sneakers. Do you expect me to kind of buy more GST tokens down the road or is that the only kind of you know interaction between me and the token?

Yeah. So so so going back to the speculation thing so we actually ah trying to discourage speculations because we have seen several occasions where people are holding on the G. S. T. S. And then pump up the price of G. S. T. S. And at one point Gsc is about $40 per token. And so this has come down to how do we balance the game mechanics and in particular scenario where you know when we first having the B. And B chain, the liquidity of the Gs is pretty pretty low and when people are holding on the GsD price, the price go up to the roof and there have to be dynamically adjust.

And now we are implementing a dynamic pricing strategy. So basically changing the price as the price action moves. So basically just to tackle on the speculation because when people speculate, I think normally the retail users are getting burned and because you know, if you buying all the G. I. T. On the market and you're not selling the meeting cause is going to go up and then the person buying the sneakers are gonna buy it at a higher price. So um I think curbing the speculation is actually what we are doing and ah we're constantly basically improving on that.

Got it. And I guess just to dive into that a little bit, you mentioned that the market for you know, fitness or health or lifestyle is much bigger than just a gaming market. And let's say today, let's say roughly there's a billion people on earth that would ideally be because potential customers will step in and you do in the next 5, 10 years scale to these billion people. How then, do you know what happens at equilibrium? Like who is still coming in to support the price of you know, the tokens to make sure that it's still worthwhile for people to you know participate in this move to earn.

So that's that's the reason we actually, so we start off as a game fight. So and we see what happened with the Game five project right? It's a short life span um prone to pump and down and have a niche market. And then the developers are constantly chasing after producing new content to retain the users and you know uh ask the game sort of lose the momentum going upward and uh he will fall and then going down that death spiral. So we see that and that and then we started to pivot away from a game fire. So the that's the essence of the left cell app is you have the social end, the game element. So we've talked about the game element, the reason that human as a social animal, they need communication, they need interaction, they need to sort of have a meaningful conversation once a well. And that's the reason that toward the end of the product life cycle, we basically want to create a vibrant um running community. So that's the reason that we're actually doing a lot of offline event. So we are running on, we are running like 5 to 10 offline events. Um at the moment we have one in Greece one in Japan, several in Japan, several Australia uh in span we have several in the U. S.

So and there's multiple in East Asia area. So um when people are meeting off lines and they're creating a stronger social um connection. So when we talk about web three socials we talk about the interactions with wallet. But interaction with what is very weak And what we picture is that using a Web three app and then you actually bring people together outlines and that's valuable and that's powerful and and and people almost can use the sneaker as a vocal point for conversation. And and then they are willing to pay for the social sort of features in the app. And then you actually turn this move to turn into a um app. But people are willing to spend for it because they want to retain their social status. They want to have a like a social presence and they want to impress their friends or impress the community members. So this is a really a two tiered um step basically. So yes people are making money and and they're having a good time now right? And as we expand but with more and more people on boarding they were starting to graduate earn less, right? This is inevitable that people are gonna earn less.

But when they are earning less are they gonna stop? I don't think so because they already have the habit of exercising and now the earning thousands of dollars a day. That's because uh the Gs. CS value at either $4 on the uh Selena or $10 on the B. And B. Chat. But as the sort of the growth rate starting to slow down. I mean if people earning $10 $50 a day, that's still much, much more sort of uh I think the white two people going to impress because we are now having more people on boarding that never ever used crypto before And they are really impressed by how much they can earn. So let's say even they earn $10 so the earning bit will gradually fade off. But then as we are bringing more partnerships from external uh partners right? So either we can work with like another project. Say you want to access to these millions of valuable users, how about you pay for this to our users?

So They are making let's say they are making let's say $500 a day now And that 500 bucks are provided by Stepan, Let's say in a couple years later they still earn $500 a day but maybe only $10 that's provided by step and then $490 are provided by either advertising sponsors or co sponsors or people want to access users by air, drop their tokens. And uh really in the end there's no difference from the user side, they're still earning the same amount of money but they are not provided by us. They are provided by the ecosystem partners and they are also more willing to spend in the app. So that means the longer way grow actually the healthier the whole ecosystem is going to be because people are meeting sneakers selling on the marketplace today, but in the future people will be willing to spend to access the social features of the app.

That makes a lot of sense and I appreciate how you think about both sides of the market because with a lot of play to earn games that we talk to, it's clear that they think a lot about the demand side, right, where the users come from and how much they earn and all they do is basically print tokens out of thin air to reward these people, but they don't think about the supply side which is where the capital is coming from in the long term. And it sounds like a lot of that will be from partnerships for you guys and you've already started with some of the partnerships I noticed you guys partnered with, I think SPF for a charity event, can you talk a little bit about that too?

Yeah, so so yeah we did that sneaker and and basically we did auction on the F. D. X. And there was, I think the Taiwan buyer bought it and for 2100 stole. So then we basically agree with FTS, so the proceeds will be donated to the, to the charity of theirs and do the uh doing good stuff basically. So that's one, just one way we're doing that. So taking charity auctions, right? So we are basically exploring different directions on how can we on boarding more partners. So so really you consider the sneaker as a advertising billboard right? So we can make SPF sneakers, we can make other celebrity sneakers and we can have co branded sneakers. It doesn't have to be a sneaker brand, it could be a I. T.

Brand. Um And and so there's there's many many possibilities. It's just about it's really just how we're gonna do the business development down the track bringing more partners to the ecosystem and uh and providing values to the users as as well providing value to the to the to the partners as well.

And based on your beady conversation so far what types of companies are interested in this is mostly sports brand that want to advertise their actual sneakers or you know you see a lot of different companies too.

Well so we are talking to a few uh sports brand particularly stinker brand. So I think this is we just started right? So we basically want to roll out um just couple every year at least. And then we're going to explore other type of uh a waste basically to encourage people to use the sneaker as a like a like a social identity. So we we were going to release a panda skin. So which is our own design, like a panda sneaker. And so I think we just need to be more creative on what we can do with sneakers. So yeah so either it's partnerships or like a particular special items and you know just in the end uh the sneaker. Well we want to create a sneaker something like you know like like how the PFP works, right? So you're holding the genesis and you having perks and you know people um value you know the the genesis sneakers and people value the special design sneakers and then they become like token sticks.

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So I think it's white coin, I think we study their business model and I think they are the only company from the web to space actually have a business model. There's many free earning apps that didn't know what they are doing about. So they basically felt and I think Bitcoin is one of them that actually knows their trade. So, but I think with us we are trying to take this more from a web three perspective, so we are not going to sell items on the energy market place, but um it's more a co branded, you know, relative sharing sort of collaborations and they really with us, we are leveraging the brand reputation and also with our user base, so creating good synergies. So it will be more of a longer term collaboration because the roses share basically will be something that long term

and you made a really interesting comment about how play to earn is more like a bootstrapping mechanism where you know people are earning money but over time you do need external sources of capital. You can keep that going, but looking across the play to earn space right now, almost none of the games really have a full plan for external sources of capital. They're all really relying on just minting tokens. Have you seen any projects that maybe seem sustainable to you or some projects that you guys took inspiration from when you were first starting step in?

Um, just thinking from top of my mind, um, It's difficult, right? So one is that when we talk about the game fire or moved around play to learn, you only worry about that issue when you have enough users, many, many game five project now having trouble bootstrapping the seed users. So I think that's again, the nature of game fight is because it's still crypto native and gaming. So how many people Are playing Game 5? Maybe a million. And that's it. So, and then the game is also very fragmented. Um, you want to three D. And then the other one wants to d. And uh seem that, you know, you know, a lot of, there's a card type of games available on the crypto space and there we we see several like our first person shooting games, but I mean the gym genre is already overlapping and you are competing in one particular niche within this game finish. So, um, I think really, I think the real question should be why should we need to only targeting to the, you know, the game fight crowd, you know, why not target into the bigger audience and and open up the the audience base? And, and then you will be starting to worry about all, you know, how about we burning external sort of partnerships because with the game it's really difficult because you are creating, you know, your own narrative, your own system, your own everything.

So is it difficult for like any external, you know, partnerships to tap into that? But I think with a sneaker. Right, So, I mean, I think what I'm trying to say is that you don't need, you don't need to have a lot of game elements, you will need a minimum amount of game element and which means that it's malleable. Right. So when it's malleable, uh, you open up the opportunities for collaborations, if you have like a particularly let's say exit or like any other games that we have ever seen, like, you know, very uh, systematically designed, uh, it's very difficult to change it if you change it, everything else is going to be changed and then you're looking at so many work have to do

that makes sense. And I think looking at some more recent data, was there anything about the, so obviously you guys had a massive, massive explosive first phase with a lot of users coming on. Was there anything about how fast you guys grew that surprised you? Or were there specific strategies that you guys did differently, then most of these other play to earn games that allowed you to be one of the most played games in crypto today,

um I think we are very much focused on the product side, so um we don't really um so basically everybody just work every day, so we're looking at, so we're very hands on on everything in the app, so which means that were very responsive to a lot of the bucks in the beginning and also feedbacks and we are able to iterate ideas. So, you know, so I think, I think that's the reason for building something simple in the front end because that enable us to rapidly change things and without wasting a lot of time. So if we go in this direction we spend a lot energies on the C. G, it doesn't work, we're going to another direction, you know, that's money and time wasted, so we are going very light weighted on the front end that enable us to build a very robust beckoned and on boarding users and bootstrap and you know, running um activities. So I think product and community oriented, it is the key I think for us to enable us to ah to grow basically,

are there any major features of the app today that is different from what the app looks like when you guys first launched back in december, like any major changes that you guys made as a result of this close communication with users.

Actually, no, because when we first designed the app, we have a very so when we when we explore the ideas, we have all sorts of ideas in our game narrative. But we actually designed so we spend a lot of time to refine the ideas and to just cut all the clutters and necessary element, just leave the core, you know, the sneakers and that the energy system and uh you know, so uh and the earning caps, so surprisingly that not many things got changed uh because you still need to have that consistency. Um if we're changing to frequent um the user will have sort of negative reaction. They they say, oh you don't know what they're doing, right? So uh we if it doesn't, I think everything worked fine for now with the older system designed, so we only are fine tuning it. We actually didn't do any major changes.

That's interesting. And I guess if there were, you know, major changes that you have to make to the application right now, what are some of those changes that you're thinking of?

Major changes? We so I think that's that's again, I think that that's one of the reasons that we are doing well is because we have pretty experienced game producers, so we spend time to build the road map and also the game development document and then stick to it. So surprisingly that we haven't we didn't do much of the major shift to our directions. So what we did is that we're adding module, the game module very carefully and because we want to keep the gap very simple. And when it's simple, you actually can Refer to new users quite easily, right? You tell people that I go out for a walk an hour and make $500. That's easy. And so we don't want to over complicated the, the app so meaning that we are very, very conservative on adding new features. So since we start building the app, we only add one layer of complexity, which is the mystery box system and after sorrow sort of study. And we're gonna add another system uh in another one or two weeks time, which is a meeting scroll system. There's another item and uh, we are probably going to add another batch system Uh in the Q three this year and that's about it. So uh, we are basically rolling out the plant sort of uh, features.

And when we are designed new features, we are very, very careful of not adding complexity to the app.

And that word of mouth point you brought on is so interesting because Stefan is probably the only application where, you know, I've seen so many different ads on places that I didn't expect to see crypto ads like instagram on people's captions, they say, hey, I'm earning money if you click on this link in my bio, you can earn money by just walking as well. So such a kind of easy sell to retails And which leads me to think, you know, in the long term, you know, if there are more competitors in the market is the biggest differentiation basically how much people can make, like if an application comes out and offers the same thing, but instead of making you earn $500 an hour, maybe they can provide $600 an hour. Do people just hop on from app to app? And what is the most over time?

Okay, so the mode I believe is the user base and uh, it's also about how you turn the economy around because really, who is that going back to the question, who is paying this 500 bucks, let's say or let's not, let's say not 500 bucks, let's just say um 100 bucks right for entry levels. Who is paying that money? It is the same people that onboarding new users, these same people that uh, upgrading their gems, the same people that are trying to get better sneakers, Some people that are trying to have more energy. So we talk about user doing transactions peer to peer transaction to other users and the user are consuming and spending and that's where the money comes from. And there's so we are looking at about 700,000 daily users now we're gonna break a million daily users in June very confidently. So unless there are another app that can rapidly bootstrapping um users and having a super high demand for their tokens enable the first batch of users earning hundreds and hundreds of dollars a day. Then application developers themselves have to pay for the initial um play to earn um uh revenues basically to the users and that is hard that so we start with the G. S. T. About tencent and all the way up to now. So because the user demand, so they, you know, the new app have to be really um having a um initial users not selling their tokens keep buying and and then at the same time keep up with the growth. I think it's it's a fairly difficult um things to do, they have to juggle on several sort of uh boats and to make the balance because if you're not making the balance, you're having people dumping the token right or you have people holding token, make the price going off the roof and then thinking new user on boarding, really difficult.

There are so many things can go wrong um with um um how can I say if you don't having your hands on the pole for the market and that really is testing the deaf team's execution skills. So and when we talk about the mode of competition, this is an interesting aspect because when you're looking at doesn't matter, it's a car or let's let's just say Mcdonald and KFC s, they look identical almost, you know, Mcdonald have fried chicken, okay, If they have fried chicken, you know, that will have burgers, that will have chicken nuggets. So this is not about um point of difference because you can only have so many points of differences. I mean, I mean move it is a point of difference versus a plate or, but how can you make a move? Turn app different from the other move? Turn app? I think it's very difficult and ah even you're trying to make some, you know, different aspect. In most cases, users probably don't care, right, they care about what they care about making their way back, right? They're making their investment back and they care about how interesting the app is, and they probably care about how the community, right? So if they can make new friends. So as you can see that the initial need is always about the financial returns, but over the time they're probably going to stay for the community, they're gonna stay for the gameplay, they're gonna stay for other things. But if you, the new sort of app cannot address the initial financial incentives for the user, let's say they only earn like a dollar a day.

People say why even bother, right? So, um, so the initial bootstrap and also the um, uh, how, how, how they kick off their moved around it is very important.


if they have one misstep and they're gonna be in trouble.

Yeah. And I think with, with fitness apps, especially, there's this, um, engagement element where you don't want to break the streak, right? For instance, I think in Web two, there are a lot of fitness apps where they track how many days in a row you work out or how many days in a row you're sleeping well for games, it's, you could replicate some of that element. But for fitness, I feel like there is an inherent, um, kind of retention element to it. And there's also an element of, I'm going to walk around every day anyway, might as well get paid to do it regardless of how much. So my hypothesis is that, you know, retention for fitness apps for, you know, lifestyle apps like steppin is probably going to be higher and less price sensitive than play to earn game like an actual infinity. I don't know if you agree with that.

Yeah, that's what we see because really people are actually, I mean, can really, I think the most impressed users are not the people that are doing the exercise every day. I think the people, you know, the most advocate, second user are the people that never did exercise before and they, and they can see how drastically they changed on their physical shapes. They can see how they change on their energy levels because, you know, people do not exercise and versus people exercise regularly. You can you can see the feel different almost eat more better. You know, there's all around healthier. So these these are the people see the most significant transformation and basically everything that you know, I don't give a, you know them about how much I'm earning because now actually I I you know, change their lives and and they are being more vocal about it. And that that's I think how I think we bootstrapped the initial users and also for people that wanted to advocate and also create an offline event. Are those initial known, you know, uh sporty people

And how do you prevent against um body or civil attacks? Given that there is such an easy way to earn money. Like why can't I just buy 10 phones and then just put them on a treadmill.

You can't put on the treadmill because it is a GPS track. So we have to actually move outdoors. And uh with multiple phones, we are not doing anything at the moment because there is too much demand. So temporarily we're allowing people to having multiple phones and to work out simply because the demand is much higher than supplies. But talking about anti cheating, it is very important because I think for many, many apps that didn't manage the anti cheating. Well you were getting the hackers basically to print money in your ecosystem. It's almost like a counterfeit money and then you to count the money actually is the real money in this scenario. So then your value, your, your, your token value will be much less, right? So what we're trying to do is to have people actually doing a proof of work out where when they actually spend the energy, spend the time to move outside and the token must worth their time meaning that people are selling that at higher price. So we have done very extensively on the back end with the machine learning system and to identify people are bottom or people are cheating. So you will see that um ah with the uh, you know, basically the ongoing improvement almost like ongoing improvement, the GPS. So that's something that we're working almost continuously to improve to make sure that nobody uh um, earning the money in unjust sort of manner.

But with people are genuinely moving outdoors with one or two phones. Not at the same time, but let's say consecutively. It is temporarily allowed as us that uh, there is more demand in the supplies.

So right now, um, Stefan only works for walking or jogging or running or outdoors activities that require traversal of distance. Is there a natural path to other types of exercises? Like for instance, you know, ball games which are, you know, you you won't travel far on the GPS, but you're still burning a lot of calories or just weight lifting. Are there other types of fitness that are on the road map?

Ah I think the reason we we pick walking around is because everybody walk around there's no skill involved and there's easily can be done. You don't need to learn how to run how to work. Uh So with any other type of sport is limited into different scenarios. Even bicycle you need to buy a bicycle to do it. Alright so uh I think if we I mean we already tapping into the biggest sports genre you know running working, why do I need to tap into the niche? There's no point

that makes sense. And I'd love to finally touch on the token itself. We did talk about this a bit but there's two tokens in step on right now there is the green Satoshi token, the G. S. T. Which is an unlimited supply and it's the token that most users are earning by walking around. Um And there's also a governance token which is GMT or Green Metaverse token. Um So can you help us understand why are there two separate tokens and what is the what the use cases for each of them?

Okay so the G. S. T. Are designed for being exclusively used in step in and with the G. M. T. It is more of a platform token so if you're gonna build more product down the track it will all utilize G. M. T. S. So GmT will be a cross platform token not only on second but also on other things we build and that's one and two. Is that the G.

S. T will be used as almost a disposable um not disposed income but people uh spending GST without uh worried about the price will go up or anything because it's unlimited supply. So GMT are earned to be spent is not to be earned by just holding it. Um So we need to give people sort of the expectation that the GST price. Yes, it's not it's not the token that you're holding it right. It's a token that you're going to spend it on the other side. The GMT will be used one for governance in the future and two will be used access some of the high level um uh game parks for example, that to to to redistribute the attribute point to improve the game mechanics and to subscribe in what we call the sort and filter pool which is a pool that when other people are suffering, let's say, file on their Gem upgrade. Um The subscriber actually will get some dr Gs. CS so and also with other use cases we build in the future so that that's sort of the main differences GMT is something that cross platform uh finance supply the jetty is something that will be exclusively using statement and also influence supply.

That makes a lot of sense. And I think we're as we're coming to the end of the interview? I'd love to get your sense of, what do you see as the biggest milestones for steppin coming up? What are some of the biggest things that you guys want to achieve in the, say next 6 to 12 months,

Next to 16 months? Um I think we are constantly building a more robust um um system to on boarding the Web 2-3. So I would say the biggest milestone is when we are on boarding as a tens of millions of what to users to Webster's, so, you know, they're gonna use step and worry as the first word and uh, you know, everything, the the the the the the, the experience in Stefan will be their first Webster experience and then as they become more of a savage web story, users, they can then onboarding and say, I want to buy this P FPs or I want to do these trading on this uh platform. So, um I think, you know, we want to be sort of uh the the really what we want to do is become the gateway of the web 22, Web three, and we'll be able to tell them that um you know, how to get the proper sort of Webster experience. So I think that that would be the major, uh if we can do it, that'd be, that'd be the biggest milestone we can do

absolutely, and I'm super excited to see anything that expands, use your base for crypto happens? So I'm really excited for steppin and for people who want to check out the game or maybe to get an activation code or to follow you, what are the best channels for them to do this?

Uh we are giving away now uh, activation code in our discourse. So we have the first discord, but it's 500,000 people is really reached the top max and we are creating the second discord. Um uh seven to basically it is linked in the twitter. So we do air jobs sneakers, we do airdrop activation code also on the twitter and also on both twitter and discord. So that would be the two main sort of community we're holding.

Got an awesome, I'm super excited to share that in the show notes below. And we're gonna write a full report on this for our block V. I. P. Subscribers as well. So for those who want the Extra edge, make sure you're subscribed. Thank you so much for taking the time to come onto the show to speak with us and we learned a lot today.

Thank you