Why the Metaverse Is Inevitable - Ahad, cofounder of Webaverse, Ep. 202 - Transcripts

June 21, 2022

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Popular metaverse projects like Sandbox and Decentraland are trading > 80% lower than their previous all-time highs - are metaverses still the future?   Webaverse is an open-sourced metaverse that enables creators and communities to build...


Yeah, ladies and gentlemen gentlemen, welcome to the Block Crunch podcast. They go to podcast for investors and builders in crypto before we get started with today's episode, I've got some great news for our listeners, for those of you looking for an extra edge in crypto. We created Block Crunch V. I. P. Just for you. Every week our team at Block Crunch prepares an in depth research memo with a sector analysis project explanation, competitor breakdown and our own in house investment outlook for every project brought onto the show delivered straight to your inbox. We'll do the work so you don't have to, we'll scour discord twitter forums and blocks and help you highlight potential catalysts and provide actionable insights for every project we interview. In addition, we also host exclusive ams with myself to answer any of your questions and all of that is only available to block punch V. I. P subscribers. But the good news is that it costs less than a coffee a week.

So head on over to the block crunch dot com slash V. I. P. Or click the link in the show notes below to sign up. Hey everybody welcome back to another episode of the podcast. Now a lot of you have been asking for more content on the metaverse and I realized that we actually haven't done a really great job dividing just what the metaverse is. So I'm really excited to dive into the deep end of that with the founder of one of the more prominent metaverse projects out there. So I'm really excited to have a heart, the co founder of Weber verse, which is one of the more popular metaverse projects that's coming up and they've been building for quite a while um and I've actually gotten a personal demo of the of the virtual world that they're building as well and I was really excited about what they're working on. Um So really really excited to have a heart on the show to talk to us about all things metaverse. So this is gonna be a very broad conversation about virtual reality, about virtual worlds, about digital communities and social identity in on the Blockchain. So incredibly excited for this, thank you so much for coming on the show,

thank you so much, Jason for having me really excited to be on this podcast. Um So let's start with you know the the million dollar question these days, which is what is matter worse? Uh and everyone has a bit of a different take on it. Um but from our perspective it's very simple that as of right now our world is governed, looking through duty text based interfaces Right? And realistically speaking many of us spend 8-12 hours a day uh in front of the story. Text based interfaces, right? Mhm. We personally believe that you know technology is moving in such a direction that we are going to evolve from the story text based interfaces into more interacting and engaging mediums. Um Now this is one of the more complex things about what we call the metaverse is that it is going to be cross medium, it is going to be cross platform. Um For example When I say cross medium is basically you know it can be in two D. It could be on a two D. Screen within that, it could be three D.

It could also be in virtual reality and it could be an augmented reality. That is what makes the real challenge of making the software also very difficult. You know like typically in computers if you look at it, generally the hardware is more difficult. That's why you know you will see a few companies being able to do it over the past three decades and the software is generally easier but in this case I would think that you know both the hardware and the software are quite differ. Um So yeah, we're gonna move from the story tax based interfaces two more engaging um Interactive applications. Right? So we talked about cross medium and then cross application. Um so when I say that basically we have become too fragmented right? Like there's an app store and every app store has their own rules and everything right. Um We also saw a big fiasco happening with Fortnite, you know Epic Games and Apple battling that out. Um And

what happened with the Fortnite situation?

So the Fortnite situation was just to give a quick recap is that they introduced a paying feature payment feature um on for for Apple devices as well. And that payment feature was basically redirecting from the app store directly to the Epic Games platform. And as a result of that, you would not be paying a certain commission to Apple. And because of that, a legal battle continued between Apple and Epic Games. Um unfortunately um I mean people can interpret it different ways, but realistically speaking Epic Games lost their ballot Uh and you know, it was ruled in Apple's favor that they can continue on collecting that tax of 30%. Um And as a result, Fortnite was not represent on Apple platforms for a long time. And I think now only recently they have started introducing basically a google stadia kind of service which is restaurants on the cloud, but the realist the reality is that these experiences do suffer from jitter latency and that's why, you know, it cannot be applied for competitive gaming in many contexts. Um So now they have too many app stores, right? Like in every app store, they come they are the gatekeeper, They come up with their own rules and regulations. Um and we see that as unsustainable and because of that comes the name, well wars which was like, okay, let's go back to the basics, right, if you go to web one, like forget even web to web three by the way, I personally don't believe in like this terminology, we have one. Web three. Web is just the web but these are good, you know marketing frameworks for us to understand.

Um so let's go back to bed one right? Like web one was quite permission liss uh one was all about you know hosting your own website etcetera. Um and for us it is all about going back to that basics that okay, let's build on the veb because when you build on the web it's just well you don't have to go through any app store um and it can be accessed by anyone which gives you your own freedom because you don't have to like, you know, follow any app stores. Plus it also makes it on a philosophical level you don't like censorship resistant etcetera. So we decided to build this concept of the measurers on the web because it solves these two things, which I was telling across medium and cross platform because cross medium is at the end of the day, a website works on your mobile. It works in your VR, it works in a r it works on your desktop, laptop, everything right? Uh And similarly, once you do that, you sir commend all the app stores. Um Now for a lot of people, you know, they would say that okay, But the web is may have its limitations. Right? Because we generally have not seen full comprehensive games being built on the web and to that point, anyone who is like looking at the arc of technology. Um actually technology is moving in such a way that we will be able to run everything just on the browser. Uh And the main thing which is supporting that is webassembly whatever assembly does is that you can write your code in any language and then you can use webassembly to basically ensure that it is able to run on the web through a browser.

Um So yeah that's the core principle on which we started building web ores. We believe that you know technology took a certain direction that everybody moved to the app store model right? Like to the the model of publishing everything on the app store giving those commissions because it was very convenient. Um And for that we had to rebuild things. So the first thing that we had to rebuild was our own game engine on the web. 100% open source. It's just A U. R. L. It right now it opens up your desktop laptop, it will work on your mobile as well. It works in VR and we have some interesting er features coming as well. Right?

Of course it's not as feature packed as you're more established game engines like Unity but it's still much feature back than comparing it to other web based engines like Blake Anders etcetera. Right, So that's the game engine layer which we have built 100% open source. Uh and then we have a few other things on top of the stack which I can go in once we dive deeper into the conversation.

Yeah, absolutely, thank you for that comprehensive overview. So there's a lot to unpack your heart. So I'm really interested in the UAE and also the how and so let's start with the Y first. So you guys are building a browser based virtual three D world for people to explore. And so do you see this as a natural extension of what people are already doing on like social network sites like facebook and twitter and this is a more um comprehensive version of that, or is this, you know, something else entirely?

I think it's a mix of you take the concept of social media, of these apps that you talked about, facebook etcetera and you merge them with games. Um But to go a bit onto a stack, right? Like I talked about the game engine on top of that layer, we've created a platform layer. So sort of like roadblocks, which makes it super easy for people to build their own user generated content to bring in their own user generated content. It's following along the same philosophies of games like Minecraft Roadblocks, but we're just applying next generation technologies. Right? So these user generated content could be avatars, weapons wearables, vehicles, they could be entire environment scenes. Um And it's very intuitive for it to work in Weber works. You can simply drag and drop stuff in. It works or you can connect your wallet and bring it as an N. F. T.

Right? Like right now we are able to pull data from any MDM based chain whether it's an L. One or L. Two, but we plan to be cross chains as well in the future. Um so it doesn't stop here. Right? And this is the crazy thing which I don't talk about a lot on many of our podcasts because you know people do think that we are crazy, we believe that you know the matter words will become it's inevitable firstly and a lot of people when they think about metaphors right? They think about it okay it's going to be there because of technologies like Ar VR right? Like maybe we'll have a game. I think the key feature which is going to make meta wars is A I um via say I is because you imagine that you go in in a world and you just give wise commands and with that wise command, a new world is generated. It is filled up with N. P.

C. S. And you can define how these NPC s behave and act what it unlocks is infinite content creation. And because of that infinite content creation, anybody becomes a creator. And you are able to start creating applications in this metaverse context which I was earlier talking about that moving from these truly text based interfaces and when you give this power to creators then you start seeing a range of applications will start appearing across not only gaming, but in terms of the broad verticals, I would talk about social entertainment education and some aspect of economic slash finance as well. Right. Some of these use cases I would say are very intuitive. So for a minute, let me talk about education, right? Um if you were teaching um a kid about the Solar planet, the Milky Way or your and you know, like imagine that you know, the kid just puts on his VR had said what A R had said and is able to visualize all of those planets, right? Is able to actually float around the Milky Way. That's a much better learning experience than just showing them on a book. Right?

Um similarly you can apply the same concept for just looking at the atomic structure, right? Like electrons, protons, quarks, etc. It's a much more in punitive um learning experience compared to just reading by a textbook or you know, just looking at a textbook. So yeah, that's how we have built member wars that, you know, we build it in as open way as possible. On one hand, it is super easy for people to make their entire experience. Um the earliest adoption would be kind of like game and gamified experience, but we believe that, you know, other kind of applications will also be built on top of it. And on the other hand, if somebody wants to totally customize our code base and work with that, they are able to do it because it's open source and that's the beauty of our open source. Right? And also it's not just open source, even like if you look down a stack, we also try to work with open source ingredients so that there's no risk of deplatforming. Um and on top of that we also work with open standards which is the philosophy of the of the web, right? Like a PNG works everywhere, A Jpeg works everywhere. So you just take that same concept of open standards and that not only allows us to work with interoperability, it also allows us to do a lot of things much more effectively with ai because once you start standardizing everything and when you talk about standardizing it's not just we're not just talking about the file formats.

Were also talking about the court, we're also talking about the wavy court because in that format it is much easier for the Ai systems to be able to read.

Mm I love to kind of dive deeper into this. Why we're building a metaverse here because I don't doubt the importance or the or the impact of having very immersive experiences through VR. But I do think the argument for metaverse is slightly separate. So I'd love to kind of dive dive deep into you know, why do we need to build all of these immersive experiences inside one world because right now I think the current stage of VR, you know there are educational resources and VR but they exist as separate apps. So how important is it to host all of these education or commercial or game use cases in one unified virtual world versus a lot of different apps on the store.

Yeah, so I'll split this question into two parts. Right? So the first question is why do we even need to build um these interactive experiences? Right? Like what's the reason for that? Um There's actually a research paper, I I cannot remember it otherwise, I would share it with you right now as well and it it does um and experimentation of right like of of social experience. Um and they just try to judge that, you know, which is a more natural way and you know like how it is perceived. So basically they do a live one with like people in the same room, then they do it on a zoom call, just like what we're doing right now. Um and then they start doing it in VR as well and in VR they do it like two separate experiments. The one is that embodied, we are basically you know, there's a body and the other is non embodied. We are which is you know, you could just be a block or whatever, right? Like but you're still able to uh people can see you and then the next one is bodied or non like not without a body but you're able to interact with the objects in the space.

Right? Um And obviously it doesn't have to be in we are you can do it in a game as well, right? Um And consistently the best social engagement is real life. You know, the experience which you get real life with proximity with the person. And the second best experience is always in a space whether it's in VR or in three D. Where there where there's a sense of social presence, which means that basically actually it's not even that important to be embodied, Like embodied one is better, but it's important that people are able to manipulate their their environment, their shared environment, right? Um Not only it creates for like a stronger engagement between everyone in the room, but also, you know, like the research shows that it's it's a better medium for for creativity etcetera etcetera. Right? And the reason why it is is very intuitive because as human beings, we actually operate in a in an immersive space. It's only because of the rise of computers that we have started like restricting ourselves and communicating through these two D text based interfaces. Right? So it's a natural evolution.

Now this is a research anecdotally, you know, like my personal experience and I've tried this and I would invite everyone listening to this podcast. And you yourself as well, Jason try this out in a party. Just go to like groups of people and you know like strike this conversation that what is your fondest memory of a computer application. Somebody will talk about instagram twitter tiktok, right? And then you say, okay, what about games? Everyone at that moment everyone would click Oh, games are included. Computer application. Oh yeah. And then you know everyone almost everyone will have fond memories of a computer application which is a game.

Mm The

reason is that the design principle of game has always been on engagement. Whereas the design principle of all of the applications which cold and cold we have been using in Web two is based on convenience. Right? I mean I know this very well. I worked at apple the whole design principles around simplicity and convenience now with gen z and you know like the generation after that and all for them. Like first of all, you know like they're literally born with these digital tools. It's a very intuitive experience for them, right? They can do like they don't get flustered by it. They don't need convenience. You know like you can give them a very hard to navigate kind of a user experience digitally and they will do it because you know they are born into this. Um so yeah, that's the why that you know we are naturally going to go into all of these things. Um now the second part of the question is that what is the advantage which we get if all of these experiences are interoperable, that's kind of what you were trying to allude to right my and it's actually the story of how I joined Webber, where's uh So you know like I was working, I was involved with startups, I got into crypto very early on 2014 and all uh and 23 years ago I could see the supercycle metaphors which was coming because you know, I was working at apple, I could see the arc of technology which is going in that direction.

And the most important thing for me at that point was that this is the real use case for crypto, you know, this is where rubber hits the road because you know like crypto at the end of the day is internet money and you need an internet society for that internet money to be consumed right? Like we have tried lots of other force fitted use cases, you know, in defi and all of that and I just find them force fitted for me like metaverse was a very natural evolution to it. Um and at that time basically I started looking into metal bars which were the startups who are doing a lot of interesting stuff and I came across the wires uh and a lot of practical writings on metal wars at that time was coming by libraries and this was you know, way before the gold rush facebook had not announced and changed his name, you know, there was nothing like that. Um another time I saw a demo from my from my current co founder or behavior um it's present on Youtube as well. The style free association in the meta wars and basically what he does in it is that he goes for, he does it in VR but you can do it elsewhere as well. And he goes from like conventional games like VR chat, Minecraft, No Man's Sky. He goes from like one game to the other and he's using inventory items of games as three D N. F. T s two years ago from one game to the other. And you know, he's socializing with the multi players and all and later part of the chat, he basically talks about then how the metaverse is actually a medium for storytelling and infinite creation. Right? So this extent and at that time it clicked to me right?

The reason why the benefit we get from an interoperable networks is the same reason is what makes the international powerful is that you can literally navigate from one website to the other, right? There are no limits. There are no boundaries. If we become like games have, you know like different designs different, but you should have the ability to be able to go from one to the other because that enables us to have infinite design possibilities. Because if we restrict ourselves, you know, like we just restrict ourselves. Um and as I said, right? Like this particular um technological revolution, it's going to be so fragmented because of what I talked about earlier, right? Like cross platform and cross medium, it's going to be so fragmented that if you're able to stitch all of those mediums together, you're able to create, first of all widely accessible applications. Secondly, you're able to create applications which do not discriminate. For example, I don't believe that even though I believe that you know, Apple is gonna come up with a killer headset, right? Like that's my I'm personally very bullish on it. You know that company just knows how to produce technology at scale.

You know, they know understand the consumer adoption curve that said, I don't believe that, you know, V R R A R. It's gonna get mainstream even when Apple releases its its headset, right? Like it's gonna be it's gonna be uh there's going to be a slow adoption curve. Um and at that time it's extremely important for these applications to be interoperable because otherwise we'll be making for a very small segment.

Mm So it's so that's why you guys are building on a web browser, not just VR

correct now, these are things which are in the short term. Now I would invite you to go a bit longer term and you know, these things sound crazy to us but trust me, it's a matter of when not if and you go into a sci fi future, right? And these are the kind of futures which we have seen in a lot of like fictional books, movies, et cetera. And most of these paint a dystopian future to us. You don't want to be creating a system which is basically at the core platform level is gatekeeping in any way possible, right? You don't want that. Okay, This is the world. It's the same thing as saying that okay, I'm building the street and only people who have this much money can cross the street, right? At least like added at an infrastructure layer possible. You should open up all the possibilities. And then on top of that, people who are building, they can design their own gates, etcetera, right? But we want to provide an opinion agnostic infrastructure layer.

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And one last thing, one exciting opportunity is their competitions. The most recent tear in the $10,000 equity tier have won over $95,000 in rewards and you can get started with as low as $500 in equity to compete for prices. So if you're already trading might as well get paid to do it. So if any of that sounds interesting to you, I highly recommend that you head on over to dy dx dot exchange to learn more and I thank them for sponsoring this episode. Mm That makes a lot of sense. And I'd love to kind of wrap up this part about the why? Because there's so much to impact on the how as well. Um So I think one thing you mentioned that that was really, really interesting is this point about your co founder using N. F. T. S. Of items in games and carrying them across the game because he owns those N.

F. T. S and you can bring them around. And to me that really seems to be the core of what the metaverse is because the idea of the social games doesn't seem to be new, right? There's club penguin, their second life. But then the key difference, there seems to be this concept of ownership, that you can actually own the things in the game and there's no risk of you being the platform which is say that is like the core defining trait of a metaverse versus like a social game, Like a club penguin.

Um I think there are like that's the core thing of a Blockchain powered metaverse, not metaverse because I think the metaverse is as I said, right? Like the reason metaverse is going to exist because we are at a very interesting time in history where a lot of technologies are coming to an inflection point and that is you know like hardware, internet speed um even socially right? Like digital ownership assets, like all of these things are coming at an inflection point which is why metaverse will exist but the medal was powered by a block shame the reason is pretty simple. First of all, it's only intuitive right? Like that. V put so much emphasis on rights in the physical world. I mean if you go by the the american, you know like First amendment, second amendment, third amendment somewhere there in the second or third amendment, they talk about the right to one. I like the right to own property is the same concept and you just take that into the worship world because at the end of the day people should have a right to earn now that's on the right aspect right now, thinking of it at a bit more um um you know like zooming out and thinking a bit more like socially what it results in is efficiency is results in um um yeah like optimization right? Like for example if you make an inventory item which works in one game, you just don't have to reinvent the wheel for the other one right? Like these things as I said right? Interoperability, a lot of people, especially in the in the gaming space, they will be like, oh, but it doesn't work this way, you know, you don't, you haven't ever made a game etcetera etcetera. I don't believe that, you know, interoperability is like magic that it is just going to work, you have to make a lot of effort to make it work.

What I mean by that is that you know like few games will have to start proving the concept that it works between them internally, then, you know, a few others will join and that's how it will happen right? Like it's not that it's just gonna happen by itself um but yeah, as I said right, like it just results in efficiency, it results in richer like overall design possibilities uh and that's what excites me right like um yeah,

yeah and I love to kind of move on to the how as well because there's a lot to talk about their um so obviously the metaverse um concept has become very popular ever since facebook um you know, announced to pivot the entire company in that direction and there's been a lot of metaverse companies that are coming out right now to build these virtual worlds um and a lot of them are starting with a very, with the same kind of very grand vision as well um but when it comes to kind of onboarding the users who do you think will be the first city like 100,000 or even the 1st 1000 true fans to use this platform, like what is the go to market to scale something this grand

Yeah, I wish that is weber worse, but that being said um the VC metaverse is very simple, it is a sum of our collective imagination, you know, deep down inside every human being, inside every kid, inside everyone who's even a bit older, there's a fantasy and the Matter versus a place which lets us enable and build these fantasies. For example, if you go in, you know, like 1000 years, past 1000 years, 2000 years history is full of examples of like kings and queens and princesses that they had some, you know, desire and they had the resources and just to, to, to do that, they built something, you know, like Taj Mahal um Gardens of Babylon etcetera etcetera. Right? The metaverse enables this to be built by everyone or if not everyone, at least a much broader class of people because building in the virtual world is much easier than building in the physical world, right? Just because of physics, resources etcetera. So imagine that I like to answer your question right? Like I personally think uh that similar to um Minecraft roadblocks the platform, which is able to onboard the most number of creators is going to win because at the end of the day, the most humiliate like humility based factor for these platforms should be, that we have an idea that what the technology and you know, metaverse is going to be but we don't know exactly what it is going to be. So once you actually build a platform in a very open way which is created friendly, Then you just let people build on top of it, right? Because you know, it's the same thing. It's like you go back, years. nobody could have predicted that a photo sharing application would be such a big thing, right? Like you had the app store, the app store, you know, you could build anything, you could just list it and it worked similarly for you know like WhatsApp, Uber, all of those things.

So it's the same thing, right? Like I think that 100,000 users and all of that is going to be based on any platform which is able to attract lots of creators, lots of builders and what are the factors for that. Of course you need to be able and there are several layers to it, right For the builders, it needs to be very easy to use, right? Like and that is one of the design principles on which we have built with the words that you can drag and drop stuff in and you can create a world, you can literally create a mm okay, Within days, you should be able to like you haven't finished that part but it's about to finish that you will be able to like drag and drop stuff, do some like gameplay scripting right in the world in there right? Like basically just typing to three simple, you know commands or like user based interfaces. Similarly for N. P. C. S, you can drag and drop a three D. Object, you can define it as an NPC, you can give it a bigger back story and a lower and then you have an Ai driven NPC which can evolve in the game with its own memory etcetera as well. Right? And then Which is the eventual goal is that you might have seen you know some of the results of dolly right?

Like the and like just take that concept into three D. Literally like people will be able to go in the world and just say stuff and things will be created, right? So from from my perspective I think um all motorists platforms should be very humbling and say that we don't know what the matter worse is going to be. Uh and if they want to like make this thing into reality, they should be talking to more creators, more builders and just empower them, right? Empowering through tools. Is one thing which I talked about the second thing and I think that's where the open source ethos also makes a lot of difference. Uh is that there's a lot of challenges with open source, right? Like we know there are a lot of people who look up to us. Uh And you know in fact we know a lot of people who have just, you know like looked at us and they've tried to make something and even raised millions on top of that as well, right? This is great. Why do we still continue being open source? Because we personally believe that, you know, once the open source aspect starts taking adoption, it spreads like wildfire.

Right? And it's the same for Linux as well. I like started as open source continued for a while, but when it got an option it is irreplaceable video drugs. So that's the second aspect. The third aspect where I believe that you know, um the metaverse cell and where you know some other like non web three platforms will suffer is the ownership part where Blockchain comes in. It's simple human psychology that if you have ownership or something, you put in much more effort behind it. Just like, I mean you've been in venture investing, uh you know, it's the core rule of entrepreneurship when you have the ownership, people put everything behind it. Um So that's the thing about web servers and I mean other metaphors, Blockchain based metaverse as well, not all, but for emperors we built in saturated whatever you build is yours, like your assets are yours, you can monetize it however you want, you can go on it however you want, you can token get it however you want and yeah, I think the ownership is the sweetener, which is going to enable people to do a lot of these stuff because once you own things you do it for yourself,

you know, I think one of the, one of the things that I think many people are skeptical about for virtual worlds is that there's a chicken and egg problem where you know, without a compelling gameplay, you can't draw users in, especially if you have to rely on user generated content, people don't want to create stuff for a world where there are no users and if they don't create experiences, there are no users who will come. So how do you break out of that? Chicken and neck and bootstrap the platform

up street. Okay, so this is the part went Up Street comes in um top basically weber words game engine on top of that platform, which is what I talked about, super easy to create user generated content on top of that we're launching with upstream UP Street, simplest explanation. I can give Final Fantasy meets roadblocks.


whole idea is that up Street progresses in seasons, every season has a loose team, a loser storyline. And the idea of About Up Street is that creators and communities can build their own worlds, can build their own games, Which is part of one larger game, one larger meta game. And there we create our first body experiences for people to be engaged now, as I mentioned that since Up Street progresses in season as part of every season, there are two phases, I mean there are other as well, but broadly speaking two phases, one is the development phase and the other is the game playing place in the development phase, we help creators and communities build their own experiences basically through like community driven sessions, tutorials as well as we give them a lot of assets, which they can remix where CCo assets come in. Um So that's the development phase and then we move to the gameplay phase, right? And then the gameplay phase, the idea is that we have our own first party experiences, but at the same time there are a lot of user generated first party experiences as well which keeps on evolving once again, as I have mentioned earlier that this is the part where, you know, ai becomes very important because we use ai to stitch a lot of these stories in real time. So the idea is that how you're able to stage these stories in real time to create a role playing game, um And that's what we're doing right, like, and you're 100% right, like you have to bootstrap these things, right? And it's actually, you know, and you have been seeing and I'll give you a very, there's already some proof of concept for this. Um at the end of the day, people need to be inspired even though, you know, we haven't like finished up our final tooling layer and all, but if you look at our twitter, we do a lot of live development and we post a lot of our stuff um on trader and as a result of that you can even see right now people are creating dope experiences on weber wears even though we haven't even finished our final layer yet. Final polling layer yet being is that people to see those things and they get inspired right? Uh And that's a similar concept that our first party experience when people see those first party experience and the people who are part of up street, they actually have right to all of those assets they have right to all of the up street related code as well. And they can use those courts to be able to remix and build their own stuff.

Mm And I love to I'd love to talk about that ownership aspect as well because I know you guys are doing an N. F. T. Drop with different parcels in in reverse and also there is a token. So can you talk about how those two elements fit into bootstrapping this community?

Sure. So the idea about like the up street N. F. D. Drop is very simple that you have the N. F. T. Um And you're part of the up ST slash webinars ecosystem, right? Um It's just one N. F. T. Which you need to have with that N.

F. T. It's kind of like season pass, you can call it. Um And with that N. F. T. You can claim procedurally generated worlds. You can either take that world, You can terra form it, you can put some assets on top of it or you can replace the entire world with your own little whatever you can want to build right? And this word you can token gate it, you can define your own rules, you can define your own monetization rules etcetera. It's because it's yours like literally it's yours. All we're expecting is that hey guys there's a cost for us to provide these services to you and you know that's what the N. F.

D. Gets you. It's more like with this we let you host, if you have the N. F. D. You can host, you can build stuff and you can host it. Um That's a part of the N. F. T. Now. The silk token and it will come in later. But silk is basically the currency which is you can use to trade within the game and you know there's going to be a marketplace and all of that stuff as well.

We already have it but we just want to improve it and the idea is that everything which people are building they want to monetize. They can use silk to be able to do it. There's some element which you can earn silk via the core gameplay, The first party experience which we are building as well. But our aspect of the token ah Mix is very simple. I personally don't believe in the hyper pons genomics based games which have come out in in crypto because it's simple. They just rely on one thing which is new users and that music stops. That is the reality of it. That music stops right. Like it cannot go on forever. Our aspect is very simple. We look at it as a economy, like a real world economy. And what are the things that you need to see in a real world economy?

How much value is being created and what is the velocity of money basically? How quickly money is changing between hands? The value is being exchanged and based on those two concepts, Silk is generated. It's not generated on any other factor. It generated on value being created within the system.

Mm hmm. And

don't value being exchanged Basically these two things.

One really clever thing that I think you guys are doing that we didn't touch on is the fact that you're partnering with projects like tubby cats do, does you know whatever. So projects with existing and dedicated and financially aligned communities already and you're basically giving them the platform to build out these worlds. Um So can you maybe talk a little bit about why you guys decide to pick these NFC projects and how you guys specifically work with projects to build their virtual worlds.

Yeah. So um first part is that C. N. F. T s are shelling point for digital communities. People identify with their apes, people identify with their morals, that's just reality, right? So for us it was a very natural extension to be able to like, build for these uh you're like partner extensively with them at the same time, it's not just that we are working with these ft projects, it's just that these partnerships are a bit more visible because they are so vocal, right? Like the rest of the people, like, for example, if I'm working with an individual artist or a business, for example, we are also working with with a business which wants to use the meta words to do a lot of brand activation, you know, like, and these guys are just not so working, right? But to your point, you got you got it right? Like, these are digital communities and then in the digital place, simple as that. Right? So it's very that's why, you know, like, we're partnering with them and now it has become like, even though, you know, you see these partnership posts and all their verses open for all, it's just like, you know, these communities specifically, they're helping just spread the word, you know, like, and that's why, you know, you see these posts, but it's not like that.

If you have not partnered with someone, they cannot be part of it, right? Like all they have to do is just have our N. F. T. S And that's great. Now, the second aspect which you ask like how we are helping them build. Um, we are already helping them. We already have, you know, some sort of documentation in place. It will just get more comprehensive over time. Um but the key thing is that, as I said, like up ST drop, you get an N. F. T.

And with the N. F. T. We basically guide you to build your own experience with everyone who has an N. F. T through our community driven sessions. But for example, let me just give a quick example that for bossy words, right? Like let's say that everybody who has as a neighbor where slash up ST N. F. D, they can vote for three projects which they want to be built on never wears. Right. And let's assume that Mossy words gets greater than 50 words, right?

Like Anybody who gets more than 50 awards, we provide them dedicated resources ourselves. So that, you know, like these bigger experiences can be built because they kind of become like a more flagship experience. And you know, we would want to put some um attention on them so that, you know, they're great and they can inspire more to be built.

That makes a lot of sense. And I know I know besides a computer science degree, you also have a business degree. So I'd love to ask the business question, which is how does weber verse make money or is the is the intention to be a business?

Uh it's at the core level, it's the N. F. T. S. Which we are going to be, you know, like the up street N. F. T. Then we will do a few other N. F. T. S as well. And you'll start to realize that, you know, whatever versus we think of ever versus more like, like a record studio model.

Right? So from weber words, we will be launching a few experimental N. F. T. S, which will be around like music, games, all of these things, right? But it'll be highly curated collection, but more around like everything around metaphors, right? Like not just like you're playing JPAC, which needs some sort of interactivity. Um That's the part, the other aspect as I told about the marketplace as well, that will be generating some revenue, like a, like a, you know, like a tax based model um similar to open sea. So, these are our two primary main sources of revenue. Uh And the third one is that we will be partnering with other projects to be launching their own N. F. T.

S on our platform. Uh And that's very exciting stuff which I cannot share right now too much, but and it's a bit longer term as well, but in the image, it's going to start with the N. F. T. S. Then it's going to move to the marketplace model, but this is, you know the long term sustainability, we were thinking

yeah, that's amazing. And as we close up the conversation here, what are some things that people who are excited about, what the verse can look forward to and what are some things they can do today?

Uh well if you're a creator builder, please get in touch with us, go through our documentation, start building web works today right? Like daggers. If you're a creative builder, we would just love to, you know, on board you because you know, as I said, we are built, we have built weber words as an open canvas and we want everyone to write their stories up street is our little contribution of like writing some of the story and you know, we write all of the story together um that's the first thing, Second thing follow us on twitter, we are most vocal on twitter, we use twitter as you know our chatter, we just talk about everything on twitter, we share a lot of our development on twitter as well. Third thing is look out for our Nfu drop, you know, uh it's going to happen within june slash july, we are already racing towards it. Um the reason we have not officially released a date because we want everything to be ready first after that we'll release the date because you know, I've just seen that happen a lot with many NFC projects that they actually, you know like tell the date and it always gets today, that's the thing. But you know, the more core important thing I want to say to everyone that, hey guys matter versus reality don't question it anymore, but start building this matter work on open principles and I think the matter words needs everyone's participation. So the more people participate, the most diverse it will be uh you know, we're at an interesting point in history, you know, technology is not constant thanks to Covid thanks to remote work and the overall trend, you know, technology is not concentrated in one aspect of the world, like in one geography of the world, you know, it has moved out of Silicon Valley within America internationally as well. And that is what I'm very excited about because these values will now be represented in, in products, right? Like it's not just built by a small segment of people for the entire world. Um and that is the interesting thing, right? Like metaphors will have a lot of great asian art, a lot of great african art. Uh and uh yeah, everyone should try to think about how they can contribute to the metaphors, whether they want to build on weather wars on other platforms.

But I would urge everyone to start taking part in this because it's a reality and the more people participate in it, the more diverse and the more I would say, you know, fun it will be because I personally believe that one person or a few people, if they build something is just gonna be boring, you know, because it's, there's going to be an element of homelessness ness to it. Whereas, you know, if multiple people build, it's going to be very diverse.

Absolutely. And now as a newly unemployed person, I'm gonna have a lot more time on my hands, so I can't wait to dive into all of this metaverse, uh, technology and and contribute to to the future. So once again, thank you so much for coming on. The show has been really fun.

Thank you so much, Jason.