Ep. 473 - Tying Passions Together Thanks to Web3, With Nick Swinmurn of Hellebore - Transcripts

October 06, 2022

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Transcript

all right everybody it is time for another episode of the crypto wanna one podcast but before we dive in to our awesome awesome guest in conversation today I wanna remind you guys of two things in the first one is if you go to crypto one oh one insider dot com you can join our private community here is where we have our model portfolio in all of our topics we also have a trip to wanna one university we have hours and hours and hours of written and video content that explains blockchain explains cryptocurrency in a very bite sized and easy to understand way in we have a weekly newsletter that goes out and quarterly state of crypto addresses that go out there's just a ton of value packed into this every which way so once you guys first I did go to crypto one oh one insider dot com today if you haven't already I also want to remind you guys that peace of mind and I recently just finished a book I took eleven months of our lives to write and we're calling it crypto revolution your guide to the future

of money

we walk you through this fascinating world of crypto currencies and blockchain in its part history book it's part instructional guide and it's going to really show you guys why crypto currencies are globally disruptive and how they're going to actually change in real life in real terms the way that we buy and sell and even live we include a bunch of how to's on getting started with your first

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we give you tips on how to safely buy and sell and store crypto currencies as well as how do we evaluate potentially good crypto currencies the best part of the books that we're giving it away for free all you have to do is pay for shipping and handling so go to crypto revolution dot com and pick up your copy today all right ladies and gentlemen boys and girls gather around the radio gather round the speaker wherever the heck you are on the road at home maybe in school whatever you are doing guys drop at all in tune in because we've got an amazing guests today we're gonna be talking about a whole lot today it's going to be a fantastic conversation before we introduce our guest let's check in with Mr Aaron pizza mind Malone minded Tories co host Mr feats how you doing brother I am an exceptionally high spirits today and that is because no matter what kind of chaos going on in the world it is nothing in comparison to what I'm going to be doing later and that's going to see Rammstein live yes I as soon as as podcasts or I'm hopping on a plane and head to the LA Coliseum and I'm going to see Rammstein I've had tickets that were bought two years ago were delayed due to culvert but now I'm sure they're more than gonna make up for the lost time this is going to be an epic ranger so this is the last time you hear me here at the crib to one one podcast because I died in a fire

just know that I went out the way I wanted to go

yeah they the German metal band right ram yeah yes mastic well that that's going to be exciting it's going to be just about as chaotic as the markets are currently crypto kind of showing a little bit strange oddly mates just what seems like market turmoil in the bond world and in the equities world but we're gonna dive into a little bit about that before we do let's introduce our fantastic guest Nick Swinburn who is actually the CEO and founder of hell board which is in a really cool new blockchain gaming system as well as the founder and just you know sold Zappos several years ago so welcome Nick to the crypto one one podcast thanks thanks for having me yeah we're we're super excited to dive in and I might have also forgotten to mention your most important affiliation because we share the same alumni network go gauchos that is the that's the top of the pyramid stopping the payment I I saw your fellow UCSB grad love it and we're gonna dive in first let's just talk a little bit about your background and catch us all up how did you end up here in the in the crypto and you know start N. F. T. world

yeah not I don't have the the skill of being concise so just cut me off whenever whenever you want but I yeah yeah I mean I've always just been curious right I think that's what led me there you know when I graduated from UCSB when we talk about I had had no plan and I just thought sports might be fun right so when sports and then you know it's OK sports okay and what's this internet thing right so let me go get a job you know the company auto web and then I can't do this myself so I think it was just that common thread of curiosity which led to trying lots of things which led to starting a lot of things that fail a few things that that works pretty well and then you know I think you combine that with with Calvin got back into I was I was a you know all I wanted was a kid was collects for cards you know I was just down to my local store stamps the attic every day just buying and buying and selling trading my whole collection for something in this at all so in code I got back into that like it seems like a lot of a lot of people do it that led me eventually to discover top shot I'm not overly technical so I I like the fact that well I didn't really understand first why would I want to highlight right but then I like the fact that when I'm buying something I know something's happening it's going away it's telling it's going away to do something somewhere which is over my head but I don't have to worry about that and I bought them from that that kind of hit my curiosity about and if he's in general you know started collecting those when you couldn't really collect poorly everything in everything I bought was going up so it's like I was great but eventually you know just that same curiosity was like this you know okay I hear everyone talking about utility I hear everyone talking about this that and the other how many teachers do we need with the logo on the front if a holder is that the peak of utility you know and so just kind of start looking at you know what can I do what can I do you know where the best place to start how can I learn so launched a small project with the idea of Hey let's prove that we can meant something let's prove that we could ever drop something let's prove that we can you know let people claim things let's do emerge droplets do these basic things and see if we can do it I figured once you're doing it you're doing it right you're not thinking about doing it and then yeah I just kind of led to going farther and farther and it really was the focus on just that you know being curious being incredible opportunity for all these ideas right always been an idea person whether it was you know tak fitness you know clothing food I've opened restaurants open gym started clothing brands I've done tech stuff and they all just seem like they didn't make any sense together I was just saw him as a bunch of just random ideas so the big the big thing I got was this realization of like who I think we have three it can tie them all together right they can can be connected in certain ways this is a new technology where it can be applied to all these ideas so just kind of started started going from there and then had a sports fan you know thought I think there's an opportunity to you know tap into real life events so it's not the responsibility of creating all that const content constantly the world has a ton of content the people are very passionate about how could we add a layer under that which would you know connect those outside passions and interests back to the project we're working on so that was kind of how I love your path in your progress just from being curious and want to ingest more information and stay on the edge of what's going on we didn't just sit there and read white papers or watch YouTube videos you got hands on experience I think that's something that I really want to invite all of our listeners to do is you don't need twenty thousand dollars to buy a full bitcoin and then put it at risk sending it to some address you can get ten dollars in Tezos and spend a fraction of a penny of playing around trying to send it back and forth and doing you know different mints entity stuff on these really really inexpensive chains like tassels like poly gone are just for a couple examples so the Walmart I don't use yet exactly exactly so it's not expensive to come play in the crypto world anymore to get your hands dirty education cheap don't send everything all at once but then once you understand what you're capable of doing all you can really make something cool so tell us what is hellebore yes hellebores via the first NFC powered planner in sports prediction game so we try to take you know take the best features of fantasy traditional playerbase fantasy combine those with the simplicity of like pick up and then add enough to use as a tool which will enhance the experience for the user right add more value for the user so that's it's a simple prediction game

you

you meant our entities which are called the cyber little gremlin looking guys and then you connect to the site and you're presented with pics they might get a daily pick of like Hey you know who's gonna win today the lawyers are the Lakers right you make that pick if you're right you increase the rating of your cyber a plus one if you're wrong it goes down and then as you level up your cyber you open up more levels and then when you get to the game play those ratings tell the odds in your favor so you can start a league with friends anywhere from six to sixty four friends tickets for right now we have soccer football baseball basketball and hockey soon and so you just do a head to head every twenty eight days fifteen game days against your group of friends and you just kind of leveraging the ratings of your cyber to tilt the odds in your favor not once you get past the the very first level we energies to spread right so instead of all the warriors beat Lakers as well the warriors beat Lakers by more than ten I'm so if you play your cyber that you've got really good ratings you might be on the move that down to will the warriors beat the Lakers by more than five for you to win instead of instead of ten

wow it is this something that like it's just you building you're just in your house your coding or have you gone in like you know hired a team of like blockchain experts to make as it sounds you know it sounds very complex and very cool and I know you also have a background in in you know sports you're minority owner of the Golden State Warriors so it sounds like a perfect fit

yeah no I am you know I kind of took the same approach I guess we're talking do you know anyone can get started with a story I get I guess a lot of credit for was was out back in nineteen ninety eight and I thought about starting an online shoe store and I didn't have a bunch of money I didn't have the ability to go out and really set up a business so I just put up a simple website I went down to my local shoe store and I said Hey can I take you know I actually just wanna start taking pictures because of what you're going can I take pictures of the issues and I'm gonna put my website and if anyone buys them I'm gonna come in here and buy in from you and ship it to all and he's like well I can get a discount on it I'm a retailer and wholesaler I don't care I don't need to discount I will selling for the same price I buy them from you for because I just wanted to see will people buy shoes right it's the same thing you just got to get started and you've gotta be doing something instead of talking about doing something

right

and so that wasn't that was interesting first step there and so

and then that became Zappos which is like

you know

by many metrics the most popular shoe site

world that became Zappos like I eat I use that kind of first data to raise a little friends and family around actual just friends of friends

and family and then

and then from there yeah we were we were kind of off to the races you know in hindsight you know in reality

it was a very slow

stressful when I go out of business tomorrow you know years and years experience right but afterwards I kind of took that same approach just jumped in and just and just started starting things and so was the same approach with hellebore I have been working on I had a bunch of ideas that I would you know generally what company idea and try to come up with a name or concept around it kind of sketch it out a little bit and a lot of things were in kind of stop start mode we had a a a a agency called south works that we've been using on this this audio app idea I had and just said you know early on in discovering if he said Hey isn't it can you like when people recording their audio clips can we just convert the entities and they're like well we haven't really done that let let's let's try it right they they can I quickly put together like a very simple markup on it right same thing they said well let's let us figure out if we can do it versus let's go figure out a way for to use external partners okay cool I'm just kind of like had that on the you know the back of the mind and so then when really decided you know okay here's a here's a clear vision of some some things we could provide as utility and lay a foundation for you know kind of expanding upon that I just said to them Hey let's let's do this let's go through this test together you guys figure out how to let's do this contract with you as you know let's let's do these things and get started so we went through that together and that was called the the faded renegades it was a fictional project it was a fictional band in England and they were fans of a band called the faded and there the fans are called the renegades right so we just made we just made up the story where the renegades went to this concert and they were abducted by a space entrepreneur neon Tuscany took him off to the planet called hello more any idea back then you know it's you know hindsight being how I remember it the idea back then was just like let's create a story to prove we can do something it was a small twenty four hundred and at the time when I was doing ten thousands of others no real reason we don't have a huge following there's no reason to think that we should focus on trying to you know come out of the gate like with high

rate we should just as moral concept

yeah unless you storytelling let's get there let's let's let's at least end up on a planet that's down right hello or is that you know kind of colorful flower that grows in the darkest coldest conditions right what kind of it we just had a barren planet with this one flower in the middle of it and we said now we now have an opportunity to build around you know okay you've got a bunch of humans that have land on this planet you can't go outside doesn't seem

to be that

you know it's nice out there so what are they gonna do right and we thought that would be a platform to create brands and create things we say these guys are big soccer fans you know they're they're from England they they probably won't they can't go outside and play so the next best thing would be they could sit there and make predictions on what's happening on earth so that was kind of the first brainstorm that led to what we should make a prediction so then kind of shifted towards that and that was just just kind of a brainstorming curious organic like Hey south works what do you think about okay well let's check it out what would you need and you know and then you just go then it's just that internal battle of on why is this happening faster because you keep adding features no but why is it happening faster I just told you because you keep adding features and and so that was a so we started that we start working on the game last

December

so it's been a while yeah that's a fast turnaround actually you did Nick you really have a knack no pun intended for being in the right place at the right time our founding Zappos you're just to the exact right time in the early web days you're still pretty early on and F. teas and sports production here in the blockchain space how do you know when it's the right time to pull the trigger on a new venture I think I'm probably a little trigger happy but I I don't you know I just kind of go with them my my basic thought has been when it feels more painful not to do something then for the potential of it failing then he should just do it you know like I just like a feeling in your gut yeah you like that you know a lot of times you know I go to sleep every night right thinking I just thought of the greatest idea ever it's it's bigger than anything we're currently working on and most the time you wake up in your life okay you know the cheeseburgers are even invented or whatever it is you know you're like that's probably not the best idea but when you get that one that just keeps coming back or you yeah I think it's like you know there was going to say when you when you buy a white car when you drive around you notice that everyone has weight cars right or or whatever it is and so I think it's that same thing in idea in your head you just you see things differently you read something that may not be related but all of a sudden it triggers more thoughts about that I feel like everything's connected and then yeah I just think I've I've been really lucky to have you know Zappos as a as an early experience which kind of allowed me the freedom financially to be able to kind of you know do things right that was obviously something that I don't discount at all like I I can I can say you know I'm gonna go try this for X. amount of time and I'm gonna you know used this much money right so it's it's a little bit easier to get started when you're not thinking okay how I can make ends meet today or okay where am I gonna you know we're going to get somebody to just get this very beginning going that same time that's a blessing and a curse because it also it's one less filter is one less one less barrier right so you sometimes you charge ahead on ideas that I'm that you can't remember why later on but I just think you know I think it's just dumb I'm not incredibly technical so it probably is something where it's got to be something where there's enough of it floating around in the world for me to for me to catch on to it which probably means that I'm a little bit closer to the mass audience understanding it than others so I'm probably not always that early which which I'm you know it's helpful because again I I I think the biggest challenges remembering things accurately right like revisionist history so hard he always does look back and you go we worked on that like five years ago but you're just remembering you're seeing what's out there now that is popular and you're saying you're remembering what you were working on kind of you are completing the two yeah yeah it's the same thing when you I I tried to beat myself up too bad either about poor decisions because you say Hey is it safe to say that in the moment you never made a decision that was bad on purpose yeah you never said you know I've got this data I've got the circumstances I've got this opinion therefore I'm gonna do something which doesn't make any sense right usually it's like you see something you you believe it to be true to look around as it is the best decision right now so yes I think it just being curious you know being lucky

today I like to write I like what you said about like you're like you know I'm not like the early early early adopter but they also say it like in in trendy trading you know for instance it's like the most dangerous part of the trend is like trying to catch that first ten percent in time that last ten percent of your exit you're just like Hey very clearly a huge trend has unfolded it might have already had its first ten percent but there's still the meat of the equation and a lot of meat on the bone to kind of stop you don't see IT didn't if you will

yeah I mean I think right now the you know obviously we're in we're in a bit of a bear but the you know it was did you see enough to believe right like a lot of if you just saw if you just saw an opportunity to make speculative investments and that would only go up that's all you saw then you're probably not looking right now at like what's possible right but if you saw something else then you saw it as like okay I think this could make a whole bunch of things better I can't imagine why I would go but we were just abandoned this this technology right and so there will be opportunity we just don't know when you know and so you just kinda gotta get at least have that that core belief I mean more people you know when that went with the super Lotto or Powerball everyone that gets high have one buys it right the morning we'll just go buy it I have a cheeseburger on a daily basis because they now have four Bucks this is what I'm getting I'm gonna buy the incident so it's like kind of looking for those opportunities where it's like and I think that'll be the next phase right as the next phase is

a fair

exchange at the time of purchase something you feel good about you not buying something I think it's just so stressful to buy something if your only reason for buying it is this expectation that it immediately increase in value or that by buying it someone will at some point give you something for free you know like it's okay if you if you buy it on Amazon by this because I know I'm going to get a free hi we're pretty sure I'm gonna get a free entry into a an event that's fine but I felt like a stage I wish I got caught him up and just like everyone else of like real by these things and then we worth more and then we're also gonna get airdrop these you know tokens or coins and we're going to you know it's just like a whole that wasn't that wasn't sustainable

you know

but I can't find that in the middle of it it felt like **** this is the new normal

we're gonna you know

we have to do anything we can do is buy stuff with so it was a yeah but I think it's M. yeah

I think

it's really exciting

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disclosures at masterworks dot I. L. slash C. D. and we're gonna put that in the show notes as well you kind of see like as somebody who has experience in both sports and now you know web three N. F. T. that website like web three is really going to impact the sports community because I know that like like you mention top shots like that really was like the first big N. F. T. game that kind of hit the mass market and do you see lots of awesome opportunity to increase like fan engagement community building and all that kind of stuff with with an F. T.

E.'s

yeah I mean I think if you if you look at the end of two years the tool than anything that you know people are passionate about and like to engage with them want to get closer to you there's opportunity I mean I think one of them it would help more as an example we feel like okay so what so right now I'm off if I'm a fan of a fan of the warriors I can I can I can play fantasy I could put them on my team but like that's fun right I could I could yeah that's gonna be exciting things is going to be you know ticketing I mean obviously taking a lot of stuff or Hey I attended this event and because they want to know that they want to they want to know who the who are our fans and and how can we connect with you more often when you're not at the games I so I think a team level at league level and individual athlete level right we've seen you know these membership and access and as long as they do it the right way or it's not creating too much of a burden for him I think that's exciting I think the basic level and I an area that we see exciting is just developing new IP right like saying okay here's our league I. P. and you know a lot of these franchises now they have you know aims to be Disney right and it's like okay as an example if the lawyers are going to be Disney I don't think the warriors would be Disney I think the warriors would be Mickey Mouse within their Disney empire right and so we look at us like okay if we can create a platform where well that are passionate about sports can come in and we can we can give them more control so instead of in a fantasy league you you you draft your players then you watch the game and how the player does is how you do without what if what if we can create the players we could use the N. F. T. as the tool there to add control the player and great value so now the player in the game is my cyber and the way I make that clear more valuable is by making more correct picks if I make a correct pick today my cyber is more valuable in the game I play tomorrow whereas in you know traditional fantasy if I pick you know Joe burrow and he has a good game today it doesn't mean that he's more valuable for me the next week right so that was kind of the one one key thing the second thing where I think you know obviously and when you say more about it started interrupt let me say that the cyber becomes more valuable is that his odds get better or he yeah so those are hired as the rating goes up when you then you know we have a head to head match up right and I sign him to that match it took the odds in my favor so we have a little chart that says basically you know if you're separating is between here and here you increase the odds one point your favorite two points your favor whatever so it's useful for me in my game I can have a look at more control because I could say I am better at making picks then I'll be better at this game you know some of the odds are accurate it should tell the odds accurately we try to keep it simple so instead of having to worry about who's the twelve best running back in the league and is he available we just make it you know basic simple who's gonna win with it with the with the spread of once you get to a certain level and then I think you know the the ownership right the ownership sometimes confusing like okay from a non technical person you get in you I own all these things and people okay yeah yeah talk to your friends okay on it what does that mean right and so a lot of times were caught up in well if you know if Netflix wants to you know it's like this is like this this thing that's like not gonna happen very often and I think as we're starting to see more and more now any of those IP rights based projects you have to become clear where the connection was between who's an investor who's a holder and we're seeing more and more that those the value if a project is a big deal you know with some you know Netflix something like that it's not something where it's gonna trickle down to your teacher thanks so much okay but there is still that really exciting value of like how to increase the value and and it and it's got to be something I can control and so we look at it like we could have scarcity right like any other question all of this is the only cyber with a with a with a pink hat but that's something that they can I can't control I'm just giving this thing but if I could say you know what it's going to be much harder to get my cyber up to a plus ten rating because that means I have to be right in essence ten days in a row because I go plus one plus two plus three but I get one wrong and background a plus still so the number of cyber with a plus ten rating which are gonna have a really dramatic effect on the spread during the game is gonna be much smaller so now is the holder I created the scarcity I had made correct picks which created the scarcity which now once we have players you know lots of leaks people playing all around the world there should be a market place for okay I'm gonna leave now we do it the same as fantasy we start early with friends we give you some tools you can enter at you know a community wallet or whatever you want to decide how to how you're enterprising we'll do a little bit of pricing but really the idea is same as with fantasy get together a bunch of friends you say Hey it's gonna be five Bucks each or Hey it's gonna be fifty thousand dollars each right we leave that up to the groups and so if I'm just plugging away making my daily picks increasing the value of cyber I get a plus seven that's gonna be valuable hopefully to people all around the world playing head to head matchup weather like I got a win my league because there's whatever on the line

mmhm yeah I saw that was

yeah I was trying to like provide utility but also control where I can take action I think the whole idea of taking action and having it affects my asset is is the thing that the general population can understand because we look at such we're not gonna be able to build what we want to build on the existing F. T. community at least the ones you know I don't think I I think I think the way we would build that would be to just guarantee them that the price was gonna go up by them doing nothing and just giving them giving them giving them right and so we want to get more into you know the book the broader audience much bigger audience those that do are doing Housefull sports better paying and playing fantasy sports capitals audience and say Hey here's a new year's alternative doesn't replace what you're doing we just think it's it's a better way it's simple so it's you know it should be able to onboard even more people because it's not a clear level just the team level and here's how you have control here's the utility and the ways you can increase the value of your cyber but in this challenge is that right so we have to make sure that we can you know onboard them can we onboard them without having a wallet but still getting the same experience can we make all those things so that's kind of what we believe in working I just create a real simple game improve upon the traditional fantasy or picking experience create something new use the N. F. T. as a tool to make that better instead of the end of TI being the be all and end all and then and it just keeps slowly you know evaluating the friction points and lowering those and okay what's the next fraction the second thing we did was we when we look at that idea of like what's a fair exchange on day one you might say okay that's a fair exchange but like to play games cool but what else and so and so what else can we also build that will bridge for the future and so we create our words platform that's called means of Mars and so once you have your cyber you connect to the game site to play which also connects incorrect immediately the moons of Mars site and that'll show you if there's any reward attached strategy social like right now for the first the genesis cyber question everyone immediately can claim another cyber from a different collection and then when you claim that one you can check that one and some of those people will have he got twenty five dollars to spend in our cover story or Hey you've got a six month streaming fitness program with Daniel Cormier right or you've got a you know subscription for coffee whatever it is we want to think that's another interesting area so that we provided two forms utility one is in the game one is a little bit more traditional and we think that is kind of the foundation of a pretty good base to be able to explore and stay curious and find things that that can they can tie into that I think that's a really smart design but I love the idea of these powered up and if he is being traded well you could kind of bring like a pinch hitter in the bottom of the night to try and help you win your league on the last day very cool you what are some other games that you play what you've seen that really inspire you or that you really enjoy that maybe our listeners should check out as well I'm not a huge gamer I mean I play I play football NFL fantasy with a you know a group of high school friends I play EPL fantasy with another group which was actually one of the reasons decide to simplify it because I consider myself to be a really knowledgeable if your friend has lived in England tells eight actually was able to invest in them in Leeds United for the premier league a couple years ago same person sucker actually I I it's about eight years ago to start a team in the town I was living in Burlington went through that process of like let's see we can start our third division team and I invested in a team in Denmark it was kind of a a lower level team was kind of the the majority of the money just thought and we kind of watch does get promoted and relegated all happening was that going off on a tangent like that was on you don't you feel like even though I'm super knowledgeable I was sitting there trying to you know put my team together and I have like whatever four million pounds that left to spend out of my budget and I'm just sitting there evaluating the three Brighton full backs and I'm like I don't even though I'm watch them I'm so into this I am I still can't tell you which of those three full backs would be a better use of my time and so I started talking to people and leaving go ahead this is great but man it's like actually really hard and so that was kind of one of the reasons why I was like I want something simple where I can do a little bit of research S. it's too much to expect me to that's one of the products right where I was like kind of excited about it because because of the big picture idea but then when it came time to like I'll get into land selection or these thing I was like almost like you sent me a white paper airlines like you know I I'm I'm not a big reader I'm not this so you know what I plan like a you know fee fund and basic Xbox games is kind of the next year the limit of kind of what I've done but I really do like I you know I have lived in Vegas for a few years I really like sports betting I like I fantasy and so that was where I thought it's just such a one thing to do analysts content happening daily people are super passionate about it we've just got to find something that's simple enough people are so busy we can ask him for we can't say he complained again just go study for a week you know so I can get the most basic level give us a minute connect C. daily pick with no spread pick a winner come back tomorrow to see how you did get to the next level you don't make a few pics today the lines introduced here's a simple explanation of the line if you're not familiar with it make your picks and then finally get to the head to head level where you're competing head to head three three packs per day against against someone else so that's another thing I think you know kind of back to the I'm not overly technical I'm just you know I think I'm fairly simple you know the probably a price early simple and so in a way it L. it helps me focus on just the simple broader opportunity and you're passionate I mean you got you got diverse passions that really intersect and I think one of the cool kinda like secular trends that is a really strong tail wind to it to what you're building with

hellebores I'm kind of like the

the

legalization

of sports betting at least here in America I know California is still like behind the eight ball against your opinion on how that's gonna play out in the time line and stuff but like you know it you know if you just look back ten years ago like this would have been a thing that would have been like illegal to do and now it's like totally on car what's kind of the landscape of sports betting from your viewpoint yes the check so back in twenty eighteen I had a couple friends and we were looking into we were approached by one of the attorney from washing DC was kind of leading the the legalization of sports betting that he approaches and said Hey I think there's an opportunity for maybe a pure play start up to come in into the space and so we went out we met with some of the casino companies multinational couple others we went out to New Jersey with that with the US state regulators and we try to really learn about it we just felt like huh this is like exciting but also we will have no control of our destiny like we have to wait for each state to get opened up we have to submit this thousand page you know personal background application all the all of the sports bets online sports bets in New Jersey have to go through one server room so it's like this there is a already issues of like Hey at least twenty eighteen there like there's issues of how many you know how many that's what it takes then had to go to a casino company who had scans yeah that apply for skins and they have the ability then to transfer a skin to a third party to use to scan their their online support that so we look at it more like man that's some that's a lot you know that's a lot and it's gonna be expensive and there's me really big players are coming in and where the mercy of a lot of people in their decisions want feedback we got from speaking to you know we got in with some of the people in them at the casino companies again the name of the second one that was but the things that stuck with me was one guy was telling us he created this very simple daily parlay card that's on the back of all the newspapers in English right I think if the guy was I think you did about Fred and I that's what I latched onto was like all this other stuff all these things Hey this this very simple thing that everyone in the country can understand which is basically the time that probably still have it here's a list of all the games this Saturday because many of you think there will be any goals any any game where you think I'll be zero zero you just do a triple garlic or you know if you pick three your your pay out if that happens pick five and he was like that's like that was the one big thing so I just left that thing that meeting thinking okay you just need to keep it very simple something that the broadest possible audience can understand the second thing was another guy said listen guys I've been doing this for a long time if I were you we were talking about like a plan for one of their skins like if I was you guys I would just build a free to play and just to track an audience and then when we lose it when it's legal everywhere then I would just see what your opportunities are right rather than have an audience it's valuable to an existing company or you're gonna be able to turn on that if you want to through a process which will probably be a little a little clearer at that point those are the two things that always stuck with me and I tried to tried to latch onto you you know I think I saw in California I think we have a vote coming up on on sports spending and voted to closely but like I don't know if it's you know how widespread it is or if it's limited to certain areas but my assumption is there's so many things

that are becoming legalized in just you know it just makes sense to sports betting another one of those I mean you got to push back the balances in place you gotta provide for support you got to make sure you're not enabling people that you know aren't able to you know keep it you know keep it that but I think that it's it's coming it'll just be very everything's alright everything that everything is slow especially when state by state and all that but I think I'll be exciting I think you have I think wasn't the is it maybe the the wizards that are opening a sports book inside their arena you know when you go to England when you go to England you yeah I was I grew up as a big a

Tottenham fan

site I went to a game in the last day in white Hart lane and I was sitting in this it was like this restaurant you can sit in and a little bit fancy favor going over there let's get this experience and the waitress just comes up to you the same way as you and your menu right hand you a little card you can fill out and place your bets

place your bets baby

you want

and I didn't I didn't know it wasn't and

so I'm I missed the thing and but then I want you know one back to another game and you walk around the same you walk up and get a beer in a P. you know what a hot dog you walk the next Danny when you place your bets and I think it's just a part of that part of that culture but I think I you know I I think probably you know blockchain help helps that I mean it's it's very it makes things very clear right who's doing what who did what hopefully that could remove a little bit of the young of the stuff you know the the behind the scenes stuff the people are worried about so but I don't I don't have a great answer on them on that I just think that it's probably so you know what appears to be something is coming generally right once it happened in one state eventually it will happen happen everywhere

yeah no I I I definitely think you're you're spot on there it's only a matter of time and you know once the floodgates are open kind of like on the federal level every state is just gonna

yeah

yeah so I guess one of my one of my other questions here is just kind of around something mark Cuban and mentioned about using an F. T. E.'s S. tickets or having tickets to get in and out of games and after Easter you can unpack what that might look like and if there's any maybe cool companies that are working on that kind of stuff

I know there are other companies working at it working on it I know there was a guy who used to be the the head of marketing for the lawyers are Kenny

I think it's empty

I saw that he's he's at one start up in Oakland that's kind of working on you know blockchain ticketing I think it's interesting I think your teams are already thinking the same way right the warriors are they set up their own resale marketplace because they look at it and said Hey why are we not sharing in the secondary sales if it's just on you know Ticketmaster StubHub whatever right so they went and said Hey let's set up something through part of the ticket master but do something where we control the the secondary market when I control the week we have a you know a big players in our own secondary market and if you look at the revenue they generated obviously the orders are a little bit the exception as far as you know the revenue they're able generate the moment but like via you know that was a big shift for them they saw like significant revenue coming in from the secondary market and so obviously I have to use with the ability to you know just automate that like if I take it ever gets resolved resulted goes back is interesting I think you know it's much easier to attach you know perks to an entity that would be to a paper ticket or did you know even just a thank you stand I think that'll be interesting I think it's it's

kind of

one of the reasons also why we are excited about about the the rewards slash shopping platform we have is I think that's that's the thing is like over time it's like I'm gonna buy this thing I'm not even going to there's a lot of chatter right will do we need to rename it you know well things not be called entities I think it was good but we don't even think about it what do you call next year not it's just this that and so I think I'd be great right if we if we worked with the team in the future instead of our focus with the team right now you know the traditional path would be like Hey can we use your logo can we when we have a cyber in our game can he wear a warriors Jersey I think that's that's like that's interesting that it might be fun to some people but it be much more interesting to think of you know things was like Hey let's create some unique IP some characters or something or some membership or some club that it is exclusive to this one let them interact in in with the game but then let's also you know happen to this rewards site and let them come in digital rewards or maybe that's where I redeem my ticket or maybe you know your special offer right before or I get you know merged access to merge that other people don't have access to and then you'll get if you can keep expanding upon that right if you find some of the ticket you've given something it's harder to follow up with them six months later and say how I'd like to give you something else I'd like to reactivate this one thing on that F. T. it's you know easy to now you know as long as there's a place to go

the challenge

is how do you let everyone know you don't like me most people let's first discord little bit of a necessary evil restore muscles are going to just go for the don't enjoy it naturally grow grow up with it right I find it is very hectic for me like in fact the busier it gets so you want to get busier but the busier it gets the more confusing gas rubber ones so I think that once we can solve that problem which is one of the thoughts we had is like if we can have a place where you go on a daily basis to do something then that gives us a daily touch points to also present you with something else or put something else in front of him so I think that's an interesting thing for that we're helping whether it's ticketing or you know collectibles or memberships merch whatever it is if we can you know combined we've got this utility we've got this game we've got this rewards site with partners and then you know that happened and audience that need to use it and then we can do some really fun really fun stuff together I think is the is is what I got for it so I I'm assuming yeah I think everything will change I think but we need the masses right that's kind of one of our focus is what we look at is like we've got to get we've got to be one of the we've got a project on boards people right so we're you know we we put our our what's called a beta up and we and we we got to use then we saw it is it's the hardest thing

you're you're building

and you're thinking about it every day and then things that things become obvious to you and it's really hard to say well how do I like to understand which things are no longer obvious right so you gotta bring some people at and then you say okay what was an obvious right so for us there was some you know some stuff on the walls like okay let's make it what you know so we're should be releasing soon where you won't need a wallet but you'll still you'll still will still be your entities are still be able to you know when you do decide this is pretty fun or I'm seeing other people reselling there is I'm not able to resell mine because I'm a well let me just create a wallet and and connect or you know we're gonna shift towards let's just dumb you know let's just do free claims because the most important thing for us is not you discovering each level it's you having enough to play wherever you want right away right and so those things and if we can kind of play that role in and also that well I think the most important thing is the fair transactional jobs who was for free at the first transaction but when we get into you know a little bit more marketplace will will never meant out will never be like the cyber are all gone right it's just our vision is they'll be like weekly collections dropping dropping dropping and supplementing with the market place has so if there's no cyber if people having a really hard time getting their cyber up to a plus six then we can always say you know what we're gonna drop a collection this week each cyber this collection is gonna have a ninety plus forty seven rating and here's the price right or Hey we're gonna drop a cyber this week and everyone's gonna be guaranteed to get access but we want them we want the you want the holders to dictate that so so we if we saw look now there's a lot of there's a lot of holders that are getting up to a plus they're they're starting to list them you know we don't want to compete with our holders so get rid of those ones but now you know what there's a whole bunch of cyber that are like

I don't know

like negative negative five the people are kind of discarding worth you know this too much not worth the effort to get back to zero they would rather just grab a new one so what can we do with those negative five straight is there something we could do that kind of great interest in those our encourage people to to try to really rebuild Tatum but I think it's some yeah whether it's taking whether it's you know playing this new kind of reduction game or whatever it was anything from them the the larger world that comes in I think for it to be sustainable and not to create this fear it's got to be

transaction on day one

you know this was a fair transaction regardless of what happens from here on out I feel good about it and not just pure speculation so that's what we've been now been trying to work on

I love it so if somebody wants to get involved you know how do how does somebody go from listening to this podcast to to getting involved in plain help more

yes so they can go to a play hellebore dot com they can call us on Twitter at play hellebore

you can follow me I'm at a close talk on Twitter and yes will be a you know implementing since I don't know when that's where we'll be implementing stuff I think is most likely by the time they're they're listening to this

absolutely

they'll be able to hop in claim claim their free cyber everything they need to just get in and start playing and then you know hopefully experience the the game check out the rewards and if all goes well grab some friends and start their own league you know that's the model I want nothing to have fun it's something they want they want to share with their friends and say Hey you know what this would be a great addition to my high school fantasy group or my work friends fantasy group or my friends over here with fantasies too intimidating let's just start a simple prediction league together or go join you know that other people upset so that's our that's our vision and yes I did really appreciate you guys having me on

I am a man

time to live by

yeah it is it's been crazy it's it's it's it's a you know I love being able to hear just a somebody who's been through you know so many you know companies writing has his hands in so many different projects and we don't even talk about base camp which is something that you found it which is you know a very popular project management software there's so much more that we could take this but we are running up against time here you know the last question I have for you it's kind of one that we ask everybody that comes on the show and it's it's a pretty simple one but just like Hey this is the first podcast that somebody was listening to the head anything you know anything to do with crypto entities what would be your one word of advice

I think it would just be kind of go back to that don't be I mean be curious you know but but take baby steps you know be curious and and you know a little steps and figure out what you like about it and then either do more of that or maybe you stumble upon an opportunity where there isn't more of that and that creates opportunity for you to do something but I think it's just getting there get started you can read about stuff you can talk about stuff you can plan stuff but you just got to jump in and get involved you'll you know you'll meet a bunch of great people and so early that you know you I don't I can't think of a better environment right now to a spark ideas that might be possible you know there's a lot of places where you got your like I got a great idea but is it possible is it needed where is this is so new it seems intimidating at first but it's really not a lot of great people that are willing to you know offer advice if you reach out I think it is the perfect place for yes people to get in learn brainstorming and that you know become the creators of the future that's what a you know

I always excited about tomorrow

I I have a I have I really hate talking about yesterday because it's like that already happened you know

we don't we probably remember accurately let's focus on today and tomorrow and I think this is the best space for that at the moment

not it won't Manek thanks so much for your time and we hope to have you back on soon I'll see you on hellebore I'll grab my cyber and we'll stay in touch okay awesome yeah great meeting you guys and

I love to do it again gots is for the win the service call sports get added

yeah we got to get a big soccer match against Stanford tomorrow

we should put that in there you go

all right everybody listening at home I hope you enjoyed hope you're having a great rest of your day and stay tuned because we got some more gas coming up later this week

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