Ep. 474 - World Economy Breakdown, With Lex Sokolin of ConsenSys - Transcripts

October 11, 2022

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Title: Ep. 474 - World Economy Breakdown, With Le…

Transcript

all right everybody it is time for another episode of the crypto wanna one podcast but before we dive in to our awesome awesome guest in conversation today I wanna remind you guys of two things in the first one is if you go to crypto one oh one insider dot com you can join our private community here is where we have our model portfolio in all of our topics we also have a trip to wanna one university we have hours and hours and hours of written and video content that explains blockchain explains cryptocurrency in a very bite sized and easy to understand way in we have a weekly newsletter that goes out and quarterly state of crypto addresses that go out there's just a ton of value packed into this every which way so once you guys first I did go to crypto one oh one insider dot com today if you haven't already I also want to remind you guys that peace of mind and I recently just finished a book I took eleven months of our lives to write and we're calling it crypto revolution your guide to the future of money we walk you through this fascinating world of crypto currencies and blockchain in its part history book it's part instructional guide and it's going to really show you guys why crypto currencies are globally disruptive and how they're going to actually change in real life in real terms the way that we buy and sell and even live we include a bunch of how to's on getting started with your first exchanges we give you tips on how to safely buy and sell and store crypto currencies as well as how do we evaluate potentially good crypto currencies the best part of the books that we're giving it away

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crypto revolution dot com and pick up your copy today all right everyone happy Tuesday or Thursday whatever you're listening to this podcast you guys know we do two a week we're excited to be here guys I'm not joined by migratory is co host today Mr pizza mind he is traveling the world he's at Cosmo versus in Colombia currently learning about that

Adam ecosystem and all the good things there but we're going to dive into the Ethereum ecosystem with the head Akon a mist of consensus lex so Glenn lex welcome to the show there's a lot of ground to cover oh boy yeah it does thanks for having me we're elects you got a killer background we were just catching up before the show and you know you worked it leave it you worked at Deutsche

you worked at Barclays you were there on Wall Street during the past two thousand a great financial crisis you saw the inner workings you saw how it all unfolded and how it resonated and you know you were saying that there are some troubling signs in the economy currently which I think everybody I understand on a very high level but we're going to kind of dive into that it any particularly you know this week we're recording this and there was a huge government led intervention or central bank led innervate invention onto the U. K. Bob bonds the thirty year bonds and and you know you're very familiar with you know that the UK debt markets and all sorts of stuff and and so I really don't know how to start this one I'm typically not stumped but there are so many different avenues we can take it lacks what's the first thing that's on your mind right now is we're in this market environment

dollars you can get four percent on your dollar if you put it into a certificate of deposit into that side say you should think about that you know get getting four percent on your savings backed by the FDIC as Sam pretty good defy yield you know it can you can yield farm American inflation Hey I am just gonna just going to sort of dark humor the whole time what's the what's the thing on my mind I mean there's like a lot of detail but before and instead of maybe getting into the detail is is helpful to just are some stuff into into categories you know so the first is the difference between like an operating economy or in crypto it might be like a protocol that is doing things that are literally productive like making products that can that people buy and pay for or other people but labor into and sell or you know you access to some machines some sort of defy machine units harbor something like that where there is there is a consumer benefits and somebody's willing to pay for that benefit through a price you know and when you add up all of those micro economic interactions between businesses or projects or douse and then buyers of those products you end up getting into into an aggregate economy so when you buy a sandwich it's a it's an operating economies so it's the thing the thing is real you gotta eat you're happy to pay for the labor and for the sandwich and delicious that's different from the financial services sector and capital markets it's related to it the financial services sector controls parameters that can influence the operating economy if I yank interest rates so high your mortgage triples you're probably not going to be spending a lot of money on sandwiches or maybe you are who knows I mean being as you know yeah it depends on the same as like how much avocados in there it's like what she is you know if if if a law school dropout is putting it together like it is lots of different variables and sandwiches but the in the main point is there are things that are financial crises there are things that are a result of the engineering of the capital markets

when ordering murders and stuff

like derivatives and stuff but also things like bonds or things like quantitative easing or things like a government saying we're gonna buy a ball the bonds of this maturity because if we don't then the the the in a credit default swaps are gonna be this expensive or collapse or whatever the obligations will go this way or that way or and there are lots of links between the financial system which in the in the good case lubricates the economy and makes it grow and in the back case crashes everything down puts people out of jobs into recessions break businesses and so on and so I think this distinction you can see it now in the world like you can see the financial crisis that the United Kingdom is going into you know for for a number of reasons but one of the depreciation of the currency rate the

actually so this is a

you can you can pause here and say like the the cost of energy is going up because

of

of war the invasion and the you know like the the actual things going on in the world that's like an economic problem at the on the ground but then that has implications for lots of financial things on top so you have inflation and then because of the inflation central banks are adjusting their interest rates but the UK interest rates aren't as being adjusted as fast as the American interest rates and so the pound is less valuable and then there's the reserve currency issues in the fiscal policy issues and so you have these financial kind of follow on effects these derivative of facts that are separate from like how how well or how productive stuff really is and I can get really complicated and confusing and it's also a self fulfilling prophecy so that's kind of that's that's one thing I wanted to lay out and then the second thing to lay out is like Z. opinions and feelings that people have about the the philosophy of web three or traditional finance or like if you were a kid Facebook are you a good person or not if you work at Google or if you work at Goldman Sachs Wells Fargo are you a good person if you work at a compound maker like you know like people have lots of emotions and feelings about what tribe they're in and they similarly have these feelings about the assets they hold so a you know somebody might hold bank stocks because they think they're gonna get dividends or they might hold reptile assets because they think the fiat systems that or they might hold interest interest rate assets because they want the yield and that they're creating some sort of play there and they'll create stories about you know I'm a person like this and and my answer is good because I hold it and if that's a nice behavioral bias yeah like

if

it think about it this way you go out and you buy a mug and you have a mug for for five years and then you see the same mug new in a different store you don't want the new model you want your mug because it's special it's valuable to you and there's no room exactly yeah so and that's it that's a human kind of behavioral attributes as the same thing with assets however what we see after the last year is that everything is is still correlated edge and is plugged into the macro economy like the web three space is disruptive and different and has different internal dynamics in the way that bonds are different from equities you know and fintech is different from biotech but the correlations are all going to to to to one like all the assets are moving in the same way and the reason for that is you and me you might hold a share of apple and a share of JP Morgan and some bit coin and also some in the swamp right and when you need cash to buy the sandwich for to pay your higher mortgage or your ranch you know all of that or by gas or water or whatever you're gonna be selling your assets and the prices of the assets are going to go down as a result and so I think one of the main things that I've been focused on is understanding much better how the the global environment filters to crypto and then how the crypto environment filters to the fundamentals of web three which is why you know consensus is working on standing up is really engaged in

yeah damn there yeah that that's incredible in before we kind of dive into it to web three infrastructure I want to just you know kind of tie a nice little bow on the the kind of the the failing pension funds and like how did they shore up their defenses how do you know governments shore up their defenses I I saw Japan was selling USD buying a bunch of judge Japanese yen in order to shore up their defenses are are there

you know

how do they not have their liabilities collapse in on themselves

I mean everything's kind of relative to the this the spending on the balance sheets of the different banks in I mean one of the strange takeaways for me this time around is actually like how much the central bank playbook is like a protocol treasuries playbook you know like watching terra collapse because of its recursive logic this thing is backed by this thing and this thing is there because it's part of the same protocol and if the other thing goes up then this thing's valuable and and the moment somebody realizes wait that's that's a circle as a soft reference like the whole thing just turns into a bank run and you you're you realize that the little economic experiments that protocols have been designing with their currencies are actually the the the fed's got the same playbook thank you issuing weren't mincing the dollar

and you can man you know you can print the dollar or burn the dollars through treasury operations and so on

protocol treasury operates

is it was

a surgery

U. S. true all federal reserve operations right if you if you're buying treasuries are selling treasuries you're essentially doing the same thing with the money supply anyway the the make the mechanics are really analogous and also like you do you actually do have the same circular issues of like you have the fed which is trying to financially engineer in economy and can't because the economy is what creates the economy not the financial engineering

and

you know and it's like well what is the money backed by by the economy how does the economy grow through interest rates were interest rates interest rates are at like the financial engineering of the money which is yeah so it's it's the same sort of the same thing but you know to answer your question a bit more specifically central banks I have I have balance sheets on which they have currencies of other countries so for example the United Kingdom has about a hundred ten billion US dollars you know as a reminder terror was forty billion so hundred ten billion of US dollars is not that much the bank of Japan I think has a lot more

time and

it's not a trillion but it but it's it's I think in the hundreds of billions multiple hundreds of billions and they spent twenty five billion dollars selling the dollar buying up their own currency in order to defend the value of their own currency now if they draw down their whole balance sheet and they they can no longer sell the dollar down that's that's what breaking the bank has that's what Soros did to the bank of England like they're holding a peg none above the natural kind of market clearing place and then when they run out of quote unquote dry powder IT capital they will no longer be able to again co defendant but they're in a and then you get into the into in all sorts of things like well we're gonna borrow in order to defend the tag or we're going to issue debt to ourselves or to the I am out for whatever you know so there's lots of sort of ways for other other actors to help absorb some of this and it's it's a bizarre moment because that if the US is essentially tank the U. S. this sort of policy decisions of the US over the last six months our really destabilizing the developed world in in a profound way like Norway is is having a currency crisis regardless of like its fiscal policies like it did some the dollar being so strong and having such higher interest rates relative to other currencies and sort of relatively having higher growth is may be good for the U. S. but not so great for everybody else

yes definitely sucking liquidity from from all the emerging markets and it just gets more expensive for for their cost of living I mean we think we have a tough here in America our main export is inflation to other countries basically

nine it is and it's not just cost of living right it's like let's say a business

and

I pay my costs and dollars because I'm consuming some technology service for some commodity or whatever so I have inflation in dollar terms plus I've devalued my currency thirty percent so now my costs have gone up fifty percent now the government of my country

realizes this and

starts generating fiscal policies like we're gonna pay for the electricity of you know every business over this

amount

which makes the

a school policy of that particular country worse

and the currency even worse which continues to push on that cycle

so it's you know it I think in real time

very alarming what's what's going on

yeah and then I also read it at the end of twenty twenty one so we don't have updated numbers three twenty twenty two at the end of twenty twenty one eighty five percent roughly of world trade was denominated in and facilitated in the dollar and so that's that's pretty crazy to consider

because whatever still

a market mu happens in the dollar it does ripple out in touch every other economy whether you wanted or not I think that like you know the bricks you know me to Brazil Russia India China South Africa like they're trying to D. dollar rise the world because they see this like well let's start to you know do nominate trade between us

in rubles or in yen and all that kind of stuff one I mean do you see that as an actual threat to the dollar is in the world is you know that's you know one of the maybe impotence is for for Putin's invasion did you dollar rise the world because it does have such a strong grip and it does you know kind of hurt all these other countries I I hesitate to speculate into the mind of Putin in large part because he's you know he's so impregnable I I do think dieselization though it is certainly a real factor of change and I think that former especially in Asia it is important for for China to get off the dollar in some ways that economy grows and as they expand their you know influence into Africa and the the Asian region and so on and I think I think if you actually do look at the at the trade in the region it has been the sh the share of dollar trade has been going down you know I I don't think that that you Craney an invasion as for that for that purpose in particular in the other thing to say is thank if you're in the states you keep it you can't you can't be like America first about it it's not good for you for some very obvious reasons like let's say you hold them look at the S. S. and P. five hundred okay of those companies in the S. and P. five hundred how many have a global P. and L. thank many

would probably yeah

if you want apple to be failing if you want Amazon to be failing if you want Facebook to be failing then you would think that it's sort of that the current economic environment kind of doesn't matter but if you if you think about these global companies which are larger than nation states in many ways they have a global footprint and so healthy spending in Europe right like you you don't want consumer discretionary to fail across all of Europe and then for for all of their kind of social policies to fail and have to get refinanced and default on loans like that's gonna tank that's going to tank the the stock market in the US and you know all the retirement portfolios of everybody who needs to to to be able to survive on like four oh one K. income or whatever and then you're you're reducing people's assets into inflation and in into higher priced goods so there's lots of these recursive loops and you know it's it's hard to draw a direct lines because there's so many different dependencies but it's it's a very on time and you know like you can see this when you go down to the crypto world and you see things like when it when you see you know Olympus now trying to get other DAO tokens inside protocol liquidity into their treasury or you use you see a loss of protocols trying to diversify it but everything falls down together is because you're not you're under either you're all in the same ecosystem you're not diversifying your like literally running

on

the same platform for the same users right so if somebody let's say somebody's holding compound token and the compounds can fall seventy percent in value while they're not going to be super excited to be trading on UNI's wampum generating fees for you know swap and in a set like the the interconnection that you see in the world is the same interconnection that you see within the blockchain protocol assets as well

yeah I I think that's a definitely a good kind of jumping off point for for our transition to our conversation about defy a little bit here and defies changed a lot since it kind of I don't know I don't even know when you could say it first came out but you know I remember their you know defy yield farming summer of twenty twenty and then everybody was you know kind of on the the whole boat of protocol owns liquidity with your tokamak in Olympus Dow and the other is the recursive lending what's in a all of it kind of proves to be a flash in the pan and the subsidies that run out these kind of unsustainable models what one thing that I'm particularly excited and you'll see I'm wearing my MakerDao shirt right here that I got at the if you're in conference in twenty eighteen or something like that I'm I'm really excited about real world assets being married to the blockchain so being able to tokenize accounts receivables or some you know cash flows from a coal mine or whatever tokenize that and be able to have people finance real world assets on the blockchain and I think that could be kind of the next stage of sustainable D. five year olds and out what what's kind of your vision here of the future of defy

so there's a lot of personal questions and I think that all of it was productive you know like I think about the ICO boom in the ICO collapse and then I think about the D. five boom in the defy collapse and same for entities and P. if P. is and so on right now and I I don't I think each one is a way of coming in and a way of going out and every time the way it goes and further and doesn't go out as far and then goes in furtherance on right so ICO's word just venture capital tax on the internet the try to raise money and then defy was and it is a very functional system it is a financial system provides payments provides banking provides trading provides investing provides asset allocation insurance and so on that that is some I mean it's

it's a

it's a miracle

the thing is sort of a miracle

yeah it is it is a miracle that these applications work they work at scale you know whatever was two hundred fifty billion or or hundred fifty billion depending on which chains you count but like dust that's it financial this industry right that's not a that's not a it's a business with a market cap that's the financial industry and and so I do think that is that we should appreciate the fact that it that it is functional software and it works and every time that the wave goes back out it moves closer you know like people start talking about well it's not a bit coin is blockchain or it's not ICO's a security to accounts you know and now I think we're in this place was like worth it's not it's not done on chain native tokens of of Dow's answer real world assets right so you have like a poetry to the sense of diet goes back and forth it's a dialectic and I think it's you know it's it's very reasonable to be excited about bringing more assets on chain but there are a lot of the lot of barriers to doing it

yeah

and and sometimes it's easier to you know like for the internet do you want to be Google focused on creating search on top of internet native content do you want to be used to creating a platform for web to user generated videos or do you want to be like the company is building the and I I hate using the analogy of but it building the intranet for a large enterprise if you want to be the company that's taking a movie studio and trying to build Hulu to compete with you too using you know like traditional content in the middle of two thousand and eight and the answer is probably one of probably not it you probably want to be focused on how do you create native economic value in the emerging platform there is a ton of value in taking the prior stuff and moving it into the new platform is a ton of value in that it's just in my mind it follows rather than Leeds you know and and so that's why the question for me has been we had a wave which was just the concept space which is ICO's then we had a wave that was just a financial engineering like a financial industry implementation and that failed because there was no where there was very little operating economy underneath now the next wave

must have

an operating economy because once you have a web three economy that people can commit their labor there and make a living and then to use that to live their life in the real world and the digital world then it defies just the banking system for web three you know N. as kids and and that starts to come together more financial engineering about different kinds of assets I mean it's cool and I think we need to road at the at the regulatory barriers and I think the collapse of yield farming also makes people a lot more reasonable about risk return you know so you might get excited about a fifteen percent interest rate on a supply chain projects per year you know you might not be looking for a thousand percent APR that is just a permit scheme and so I I do think there there will be a cultural change that is that is that is productive but it's still to me consequence answering the question of like if one three really exists and if we take it seriously what is the productive economic activity that is native to it and how do we grow that

yeah no that that's awesome and so act consensus you know what are you guys just you know kind of trying to stimulate those kind of you know real world productive dowels into is there kind of a lot of resistance there are to adoption of these sort of productive economies are you seeing quite some you know success there

yes consensus does two things from a product perspective yeah we had our start as a venture studio but that the company has shifted a lot over the years and the the venture activities have are are all part of a company called consensus mash which is a the the former portfolio and there's a serial ventures which makes investments and then consensus that kind of the main brand focuses on two things the first is getting developers to build in web three and giving them the tools to create things and so that's interferon that's you know so being able to connect into a protocol and execute software that stressful being able to write software that's building the protocol itself so we've done a lot contributing to the March and said I kind of pushing forward protocol design and and so getting developers and and entrepreneurs to build stuff is kind of one side of it and then the other side of it is getting people to use the things that the creators build so course you know metamask and true making sure that people can actually access and interact with all the different applications that are at their bills so that that you know it if the web three economy grows all the stuff that I've described is going to grow and web the web three economy can only grow if you have more developers building more stuff and then if you have more

more people individuals

using the stuff people and corporations because corporations are people too non so the the one bit to amend that is I'm we've taken a lot more and we've we've done a lot more purposeful recently about crypto economics and that's my focus and in particular around took an engineering decentralization and governance you know so we started being quite active as

a

delegate in some of the major protocols because we think you know if if we think there's a web three economy then what are the key kind of pillars that hold up and we need to contribute to that we need to contribute to the governance of those on the stewardship of those you know and so we've been

active

in Eunice want bin and we're becoming more active in a number of other large protocols and then we've also started thinking much more about like the product motion that we have for our products what are different ways that that can be opened up in a web three manner what are the different paths that don't get us into regulatory trouble but enough financial as our communities incentivize our communities and so on

yeah I I saw it just kind of on that note of Dow's and and governance in people just played a part in it I did see something recently from the C. F. T. C. are taking an action or some kind of public statement against one of these douse I think it's called the Dow which it was the first time I'd ever heard of it and so it could have been that big but any any light you want to shine on that before we can move on from that talk on a topic

yeah I mean I would I would I wouldn't pretend to give legal or structuring a regulatory advice I think out of the US right now there is a lot coming out of all the regulatory agencies you know the CFTC which I do think that they did do a fine if I remember the SEC pursuing some folks for market making activities which were essentially creating a fake market for their token which you know kinda defrost people out of out of from their money because you think you're participating in trading but you're really being duped by a robot into losing your money the OCC which is the the better the federal banking regulator has become more conservative about stable coins and bank like federally chartered bank ability to host a stable coins you know and then you've got the stuff for the treasury and tornado cash and so on so I think that there is the volume of regulation in action I think has increased some of that is just

wagging

prior prior action right there they're not gonna move faster can be considered and then they'll move and also move against things that are at the edges you know so there's no point punishing good actress they're gonna most likely look at okay who who could be an example of a particular principle you know and so whether we like it or not we have to get through the grinder I mean like there there's no pass through the grinder other than through it and my personal view is that like the mountain and the ocean right the ocean is gonna road the mountain it's inevitable but it might take it might take time

yeah and you know it I guess that's it that's a perfect segue to a kind of a last topic that I wanted to discuss with you was the theory emerge and unity theory emerged transitioned you know a cerium from a two hundred billion dollar proof of work asset to a two hundred billion dollar proof of stake asset and I kind of like in the the engineering that went into the merge as like rocket ship engineering it's like you know aero dynamic level precision that went into this transition and you know one of the the key things that I know consensys has published about was that the energy consumption has been reduced by ninety nine point nine percent which is extremely extremely interesting

and

a net positive but could you kind of walk us through from consensys is point of view were from your point of view you know what the what the ethos of the merge is and that the the next vision first year in two point now is it just about the energy I I have a feeling it's not there there's there's something deeper probably a foot

showroom you know I think yeah we're we're all most of us are people and have feelings and

most of us

most of most people and have feelings

it's almost like you on mosque are are nonsense

yeah you never know anyway I think you know Dick Dick Cheney has has Darth Vader heart so if that's all sold a complicated anyway and so we can care about engineering about numbers and we can talk about how in a security for the Ethereum protocol is greater under proof of stake that underperforms work because you know like more capital is required to do a fifty one percent attack and then if you were a where the miner is or or build out that capacity so we can talk about that we can talk about which the supply side and that the improvements and securities cheaper so you have to have you you're paying less for securities there's less inflation and so the Syrian becomes from the supply side can be of a deflationary asset meaning that there's less of it rather than more of it over time unlike the US dollar and and we can talk about the the carbon footprint and sort of numbers right so what does it really mean well you're not cranking up graphics cards plugged into the electric socket so mine

anymore

you are using digital capital and a digital mathematical equation to get returns and everybody that wants to participate in that it is not buying up hardware or or again you know like consuming electricity and

rings me back to what you were saying a bit earlier sorry interrupt but the about you saying the most interesting things are like you know the digital natives kind of advancements and this really is one of them this two point launches you know it's an advancement from having you know exhaustion as forms of energy production and to now it's all endogenous

yeah yeah I think I think that's right and you know if you kind of strikes a bit more like all the stuff is complicated math break cryptography is complicated math with that with a hundred year history it like it's the it's the state of the art for securing data and information and the proof of stake mechanism and then if you you know if you wanna look out like Z. K. M. privacy and all the stuff and of the day it's it's advances in applied mathematics you know and and the outcomes of this are this reduction in the carbon footprints on sh but I bring that up to say actually would people I think you need right now is the story and not a story to move market prices that doesn't really work for very long but a story to like organize again I go back to this to organize economic activity and like we started with a really depressing markets are down pensions are this inflation's that like there's no good news right you're not gonna get good news from the fed your not gonna get news good news from Ukraine you're not gonna get good news from China like we need a source of of of hope in good news and we need a utopia towards which to to drive and even if it if the utopias wrong in some way that's okay right what you need is just

like a motivation

exactly you need like we're going in this direction because it's going to be better in this way and Mike yeah it's it sucks in a lot of different places but if you build here if you work here their new kinds of rewards available their new kinds of communities like you can belong to communities you can be you know artists since

in a new way

you can build new types of businesses you can get better returns and now with with this bit about that the ISRI impacts you're you're also you're no longer compromising that vision with climate impact and it all it doesn't matter if you believe or not believe the climate impacts story in the mining story and you know if folks on the bitcoin side will continue to struggle with that narrative for better or worse and it's not their fault I think but we're just removing that objection from the thousands or potentially millions of people who want to be NFC artists

on a theory I'm

you know who don't have to go through contortions to to dissipate in web three because they can use the you know the core chain the man that chain and and not have a carbon footprint and so for me it's again just kind of focusing all the energy in a place where there is a potential to grow and you Kanemi there's different types of property rights there's different types of creativity

and I think the merge

is is demonstration that the protocol can deliver on that and open that up for people

yeah it I did remember you know here and all these these folks talk about you know we we love N. F. tease you like the idea of having royalties you know automatically task but we hate the the energy kind of component that you know that it has to there's now you know is it fair to call N. F. T. E.'s on a theory I'm green in ESG compliant

yeah I think it is fair I mean when I email you image is that a green image in your email I don't know and the like we I don't think we necessarily need to it it should just be the default rate of this is that that modern blockchain technology you know doesn't have a negative climate impacts and that people shouldn't be prevented from contributing to it for that reason you know I think that skeptics will always find a way to be skeptical there will be other reasons that people will create and that's fine I I think that again if you look at web three over the last let's say five years a lot of the things that were a problem in the beginning have been addressed and then of course there's lots of things left for all of us to do

yeah well why don't we why don't we talk about before we before we take off what we talk about code fi in staking it your code five something that you have been affiliated with can you tell us a little bit about this project

sure am I I think the I'll just say it is I'll talk about it in this way so consensus does a lot of protocol level work meaning literally contributing code two two protocols and helping helping the merch shop and so on and so one of the things that we that we have is a project that helps institutions steak so it's it's it's a software underneath the staking services that people use some the only one there there's lots of other ones and generally speaking we want lots of sticking providers we don't want centralization of sticking because that's that's an attack vector for for the network and so you know one of one of our projects is to support staking on Ethereum and then you know helping institutions of different kinds fully kryptonite of institutions if crypto exchanges as well as more traditional institutions like we want maximal interest in staking and for our technical teams that wanna that one really secure and rigorous solution that that's what we provide their

and Infurna is another massive there is a product line from consensys and I read an announcement recently that there for focusing on decentralizing their infrastructure because right now it's maybe a little bit more centralized another attack vector could you kind of paint us a picture of of what the the future of in fear the future of inferior might look like

yes I I've five frame this little bit before right which is that across our products

we are

thinking about what a web three motion looks like while continuing to be compliance and such a subject to all the all the sort of like right answers as it relates to regulation and so there are things that we might like to do that we're not able to do and if we did that we just break the industry and so were we we we want but there's lots of other things that we can do that can enable our communities and can give them more control and more participation in the core the core parts of the web three ecosystem you know like there are there are not many important protocols that are running on and your other many important protocols are running on alchemy and you know these companies today are organized in a in a web to fashion but over time yeah they they should become much closer to to to web three organization and and that means like how do you think about the code base who runs the code base which parts of the code base can things some things can be decentralized and something's camp because they might not be sufficiently performance if they're decentralized and you know like no amount of financial incentives is good enough if like your app doesn't load if you use a particular protocol because it's not running in the right way so there's lots of substantive questions yet in terms of how we're designing a more decentralized and secure a but you know we wanted to signal to the ecosystem that this is something that we're doing that we're working on it and to open up a can I ask for feedback and for participation from other people that want to run decentralized infrastructure as as part of you know the group or at the the protocol you know or other infrastructure providers that that would want to be ordered with us on on this initiative

Hey somebody's gotta be the pioneer right got to go where no man has content looks like a that's exactly what consensus is doing and I'm kind of just to round things out you know I mean this was this was killer and and I wish we could go longer but you know as a guy who used to work at at Leman and Deutsche and Barclays and and now who's the head economist of you know army arguably you know the the one of the largest crypto companies out there definitely the largest Ethereum affiliated company what is just a word of wisdom to a new listener maybe this is his first time ever listening to a crypto podcast his or her mind just got blown what's what's one thing that you would you would tell them just to make their their life a little bit easier here in the crypto world

curiosity is a virtue and novelty is a good guide at least for me you know so I I started my career in two thousand six at women by two thousand and nine I was done with Wall Street and had had gone through a very foundational experience for me that that that had a lot of lessons look that looks similar to where we are today and I wanted to fintech and started building a company in the robo advisor space and twenty twenty ten when it was quite early for that and spend a whole bunch of time see here looking for novelty and following sort of the edge of what people were doing trying to apply it rigorously to a pretty complicated industry and you know after working in in fintech former little bit over half a decade iced I switched more into research and then crypto in defiance and web three and I think my decision process has very much been what feels like the most different and foreign and uncomfortable and can I be curious about that and if I'm curious about that can I understand that and if I understand that can I imagine if it's ripe age how can nothing be be real yeah because it's it's so easy to break things it is much harder to build things hello you know I would encourage people to to take that kind of maybe more artistic approach more creative approach to the space and figure out how you can add to it

yeah what one of the things I like to say is like you know everything that's in reality kind of started from a person's imagination and so don't be afraid to dream don't be afraid to to sync up with some crazy ideas and and build it yourself or partner with people that are due in it in increasingly novel thing so lax thank you so much for coming on the crypto wanna one podcast if people enjoy this conversation and they want to learn

more about you or follow your work you have a Twitter or discord channel or anything that you can kind of point people too yeah lots of links so check out consensus dot net and download metamask of course for me I'm lance Twitter and then I also write a weekly newsletter called the fintech blueprint so you can just get that often took the print dot com and then I will talk at you in your email box every single week awesome what would you say your Twitter your Twitter handle was thanks circle in perfect all right everybody a look for those in the show notes and I hope you guys have a great rest of your week or weekend whatever you're listening to this we'll see you soon

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