Ep: 476 - Integrating True Digital Ownership into the Metaverse, With Sebastian Borget of Sandbox - Transcripts

October 18, 2022

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In this episode of Crypto 101, Sebastian Borget o…


all right everybody it is time for another episode of the crypto wanna one podcast but before we dive in to our awesome awesome guest in conversation today I wanna remind you guys of two things in the first one is if you go to crypto one oh one insider dot com you can join our private community here is where we have our model portfolio in all of our topics we also have a trip to wanna one university where we have hours and hours and hours of written and video content that explains blockchain explains cryptocurrency in a very bite sized and easy to understand way in we have a weekly newsletter that goes out and quarterly state of crypto addresses that go out there's just a ton of value packed into this every which way so once you guys first I did go to crypto one oh one insider dot com today if you haven't already I also want to remind you guys that peace of mind and I recently just finished a book I took eleven months of our lives to write and we're calling it crypto revolution your guide to the future of money we walk you through this fascinating world of crypto currencies and blockchain in its part history book it's part instructional guide and it's going to really show you guys why crypto currencies are globally disruptive and how they're going to actually change in real life in real terms the way that we buy and sell and even live we include a bunch of how to's on getting started with your first exchanges we give you tips on how to safely buy and sell and store crypto currencies as well as how do we evaluate potentially good crypto currencies the best part of the books that we're giving it away for free all you have to do is pay for shipping and handling so go to crypto revolution dot com and pick up your copy today all right everybody welcome back to another episode of the crypto wanna one podcast I'm your host rice joined by my co host Mr Erin pizza mine alone Erin how you doing Sir I am doing fantastic is another wonderful fall day here in Texas the weather's beautiful right thank you man I feel great I feel great I feel like the worst is behind us and the best is yet to come and that's not a cliche I that's truly how I feel why I don't know the evidence or he's just better turtle or that it's a feeling you know it and you can't argue about how how someone feels and you know what else I feel I feel like the future of websites is the metaverse I think gone will be the days of reading giant blocks of text and having to switch through pages and an immersive experience that leads you to hundreds or thousands of more experiences is the future and the future is already very present and being pioneered by our guest today right should we have on the show so we have a co founder and the chief operating officer of sandbox Sebastian boy Jai which I think it's French and so I hope I did it for us I didn't butcher that but Sebastian you're welcome to the group to wanna one podcast were excited to have you

thank you it's a pleasure to be here with you price

yes so so let's let's try to get a little sense your background you're you're you know got a very very intense background I should say you graduate with a masters in computer systems you've been in Hong Kong you launch this company that was acquired by one of the largest kind of gaming companies


there and a mocha brands and now you're building sandbox so so catch us up

all right well okay of course so for it looks like it's it's quite a journey like overall over the past fifteen years I've been an entrepreneur I consulted with my business partner ought to measure reads three companies two of them are being acquired which is based on new technologies the first one in peer to peer second one user generated content and cloud streaming or like sharing your photos videos music with friends online I'm sorry wanted to more live free to play which like you said there's been acquired in two thousand eighteen by I mean look at rents but I done came out with the idea of the men at risk right from the beginning it's been ten years old we're kind involving existing more by franchise of some books which was at the very beginning very simple game just like enabling anyone by the touch of their finger to crate to G. pixelated world and share them with friends online I was the beginning of the ID they turned out really quickly into massive success people we we wanted to empower players becoming greater and it grew increased success over time within forty minutes total seventy million creations and we felt that more than just empowering creator we also want you to like enable those creators who truly on the Clinton the great revenue from one of the great deeds and potentially unites expands good on the great beyond and we were frustrated not being able to do so on platforms like apple Google by ten and one two thousand seventeen when we continue to venture on exploring new technologies we own about blockchain and excuse me the first crypto blockchain based game by then okay good use in that inspired us to combine the user right in some ways and if he's and launch a new version of some books this time as a three D. multi platform lets you play your game and possible works for use later sandboxes one of the the main decentralized gets one will platform we yell call twelve more than four million registered users with the water it's very active community of creators ten of thousands of Archie's twin would search the studios and also form dread major brands lambs among twenty two thousand nine owners into the sketch when will that we are building together now and bridging cool sure one side of technology on the older side

to shape

a new format offered to take

it's a one of a kind experience so far but you guys are rolling out even more experiences in these different all four seasons can you walk us through the thought process behind that and what can we expect this up coming off a season three that's coming out in just a few days

so Z. I. D. is a lights the Mavericks it's a concept that you need I've been out there for quite some time in science the instruction books and movies and many came out to the lights off the general public we use Facebook would run you get self last night but it's still very hard for most people to understand or feel what number sweetie he somehow it's going to transform the future for social activities and gaming and interaction with other users when I we feel building the platform we still seem like the Mavericks will be as good as the content you'll find units and we are very attached being down to earth to produce the content with the community so people can get the first feeling first sense of the kind of experience that they can leave the name and numbers we've launched our ready to I. five season and we should use a certain one on August twenty four so it's been already to be more than a month now and for one more bombs it's close on November second people will be able to access ninety eight experience he's built by the creators by the committee each year or buy some books out of those ninety eight experiences there are twenty two from major brands from use each like Steve I'll choose a dead now Warner music sueco I've been to two months old just to name a few but also from gaming we are sorry we used to be solved and rabbits all our problems right entertainments in general with the walking dead's touching my jeep topic of lifestyle gaming set up continued to build a place where you called we don't have a tarp not always that three D. character real representation and you complete quests you engage every day is a reason you experience that is available to you progressively complete those quests on the school over new kind of experience that I really love just thanks and that's quite interesting name can be like social activities dance clubs and art galleries museum and more and you climb leaderboards depending on like they're going to collect as you complete those quests and you can order the water that the end of the season based on that so we know when we make the metaverse more tangible boxes he bowled we showcase the possibilities for brands for creators for users all of that concentrated in one season less

than three it kind of sounds like the perfect blend of gaming and lifestyle like it's not just a game it's like you could go you could spend your whole day there you could talk with your friends you can do different activities yet all of like Livin is game a fight in the sensors you know rewards attached to it there's leaderboards and so it really does sound like a immersive experience and I I actually love to get involved in some capacity we could talk about that later but tell us yeah it it reminds me a little bit of like Fortnite as well like I'm looking behind you at the characters and the the movements and you know Fortnite has it a new season you know every so often and you could really you know they have concerts right Travis Scott you know Dave you know multi million dollar concert inside a video game and so now it's like just transforming I guess from game to life and so you know tell us about some of your


your grand vision for like what what sandbox eventually will be

but effectively we have just experienced ourselves more than ten years in gaming so the concept of season something that people understand general you across the board you see that for TV series or I mean games as well and the notion of like clock speed you need to read all seasons regularly and earning rewards based on your engagement you can choose to play very lightly we complete everything and you will earn difference amount of he walked with no doubt okay or and if that's the great thing out of it we are not creating games will creating a new phone models entertainment we have our talks we can't rock social life which prides themselves dance John who run do I'm not talking about you can play we use those on you great gene sandbox actually we are searching collection you talk but both from the existing web three because the stem from the most popular NFC connection in your home all up by more than eight clone exclude COD cyber cones welcome and just to name a few you can also play with


dog about tarts you out yeah that's a really cool and it creates a very diverse environment where you're not just meeting like people who look like their real selves but the looks like I'm a new appearance even known you mind one and it's it's a big that I find that the notion of defiance yes well it does get troubled is interesting

one thing I'm the real could you bring your N. F. T. like P. F. P. to life like it kind of like you could ported to sandbox and actually see it come to life in a sense

exactly that's being part of the open metaverse and that's what differentiate us from Fortnite Fortnite you mentioned it before like people spend time down to gauge it by schemes but all that comes on the end it's actually locked on Fortnite platform they cannot take it out to get a transfer and use the whole night skiing somewhere else it would sell it to you that's all I thank the members that's all still also touching like true digital ownership of your identity your assets of your try line you'll get your house your equipment your wearable

I know

overall economy behind and jobs there's also something interesting you said at the beginning which was like the future of the internet is not browsing websites


social media but it's more like answering universe you've got tried will


quite interesting in some boxes like users already spending hard for now we're sometimes several hours a day

we create

a different approach and you are reading shift to how what how will consume Clinton how we interact with the content rather than browsing website and staying in Iraq and thank god on that web page before we bounce off to an older we're really looking to be in the state to be more folks use to interact with older deluxe I'm saying that you send books he's read demonstrating by the possibilities of how it's going to interact and I I'm looking forward to next two five ten years off how you will keep it holding think about it one Watson books like five years ago just two years ago it's very different from where it is right now going to yours more acting like people with a lot there will be much more many more users we already have over two hundred thirty plus dollars are not cuter seem to season three aunts keeps growing it's quite exciting one more time I'm more ways to express yourself we use another car and also encompass all the different sector of the industry weather of course you're socializing gaming but also think about learning shopping's day teams working your job we have you on August first wedding intimate divers two weeks ago a couple from seeing us at our house well exciting right it's always the first one but I'm sure they are leading the way that that will be much and a lot of different meaningful interaction between about two hours and ducks portion of time they're spending in guess what will is very real so how do you call it the actual reality anymore I think you just becoming a part of our we got each

you know the last time I was in San Diego I was over at the mall in Lahore yeah and they had this machine that would take a three D. scan of your entire body and then turn you and your family or you and your spouse into action figures even the mantle is there going to be a possibility for us to scan ourselves as avatars into the game Sunday

I think it's very likely and what's important is to give freedom of people to choose if they want to be as realistic as possible good numbers all they want to be totally different we seem like one of the any mental success behind P. SP NST collection is also like the fact that it's very much more creative and different identity can be annual basic be like robotic based cyber crime comes along and you don't find out so much in in you know they're just try the world's and I I'm that's cool I mean both of twenty three

yeah no there there's a ton of different you know directions that we could kind of see virtual reality kind of splintering into and I think what you said about virtual reality no longer be calling that but it's just actual reality is is definitely the the probably what the future holds in store for us and you know at sandbox you guys are not only building a lot of this future but you guys are funding a lot of the future as well to help kind of advance metaverse fields like gaming and fashion and finance and security and all that kind of stuff so could you tell us a little bit about what you guys call the game makers fund

absolutely our ideas to inspire the community we're the platform we provide the tools we offer you you told result no colts game maker indoles we we cradles tools so they are as accessible as possible thank you do not need truth no programming I need trying language you don't need to have any preview skills to start using them


that means like content creation now becomes accessible to just anyone you know just like professionals to deal with people who've been in the industry before I will create a great diversity of compounds new type of games a new type of experiences beyond any chemicals found this year reporter reading for anyone who was a projects any guy not Y. Lai D. something that goes beyond their imagination they can teach it to us to I'll give me concern team on W. W. dot sandals dot game slash funds we review each project and we see how we can see Gortat Corradini destroyed becomes liable in concretely accessible on your landing some books and the season three over to ninety eight experience you as of twenty two brands branded experiences and the rest user generated contents GMS


Democrats on we're going to G. M. S. internally GMS supported experience you that already features so I think it's also great to showcase what the community has done and how we are using that to inspire more more creators around the world

what kind of computer or gaming consoles needed to access sandbox what do we need like the biggest and best thing out there with multiple GPUs in it or is it something that you people can run on a laptop

to make matters as accessible as possible to everyone you want to build it

so you

can run on almost any device we started with PC and mac and he'd run which is roughly any computer amber out west I didn't fund running it from like you on the old computer we forty got by rob Lowe graphic card it does run you don't need to have like a high hand PC your machine for the R. or optical gaming gaming it's not that we're restaurants a lot yes is the BG the next step is to make some books on robots we know that the next step to mainstream is like people more and more all playing on I will buy you guys want to access matters just anywhere and that's what you're working on and I would you want a third major goalie two thousand twenty three

you know I think what's really cool in in one of my big takeaways from from this conversation so far has been that you guys were really like a gaming company and a storytelling company that applied blockchain applied cryptocurrency to it kind of you know after you were already you know deep in the the upstart of your company where is like a lot of the gaming companies that are affiliated with blockchain and crypto now we're like Hey like let's launch a crypto token let's do this and will kind of attack gamine on top of it if you will and so you know tell us a little bit about I I think from a from a perspective of a person who built a gaming company what was it about crypto currencies in N. F. T.'s that was attractive why did you guys decide to go down that route and how is it like crucial for the for like having a self sustaining economy or like what's the draw about blockchain technology that made you want to dive into it

that's a great question that's first a full we did listen books platform all the tools to create or tools I mentioned


vox city all market place local maker the mob we made them accessible you're not following battle even before we could use a token because we want to twelve at the core of sun looks like a very creator's dream on community and make sure like there was actual products and actual engagements about community that will drive the economy of creators afterwards we however deal decide what platform right from the beginning to incorporate blockchain NXT's alarms about towers assets created by the users all from premium brands and central can even though we introduce some soul them later to the community because we felt as well and that's our background in gaming for now he we were just trying to plug in and if he a token on top of an existing products that would be some DVDs I would be shooting John mark like the design you trouble reading that economy and managing like resource at all on one side scanners and on the other side like with any feed supply when you station since there's been no control all tracking before blockchain technology I was truly provided the solution to actually yeah a real problem that we encountered


as I mentioned some most of the other mobile games with forty million installs people were spending days sometimes spending hours sometimes days on more while waiting and building content on a gallery at the end we had seventy million creation all that content allowing users rich content contributed to the success of the gate contributed to the revenue the people were spending time and we earned the revenue as the game developer and we we like older game developers you


a hundred percent of the revenue like it's quite rare yeah I need you to be able to share that revenue we still creators even if you want to be but no just no solution called that's alright global ET I'm thirty percent threshold that greater control the currency exchange rate of the currency the robotics and even them they had to struggle first to bring all that common I've got trip share with our creator all means of Mobike which we were all like that blockchain essentially and if she hi provide a real solution behind that problem because we saw how anyone could buy and sell directly from themselves the Clintons results control of the classroom and decide you lose your victory between the users on the platform no longer a capturing all outside and I think like the combination of all those ingredients product first community first crater first and then I mean again if you don't count as you may be one of the reason where some boats are truly differentiated itself and and and now position itself I was one of the main entrance

yes you what you've built is truly unique and very impressive how are you able to get the word out to bring so many celebrities on board I mean just not just into your games like into crypto sandboxes band like the number one ingest for famous musicians and artists you just run into them at a party one day or what was the strategy towards attracting them on your platform

well I think it's essentially the same MicroStrategy to walk brands or Archie something every G. is basically showing them that we have a real product behind we are calling one side the creation and the creator community on the other side and John and don't do anything like it was easy ever like him first off hold from all my background in Mumbai about ten years we had experience in branding and licensing we are what operation we stock mine which rank ways to still be you know it's

like I

said they're all on our Mobike gate and then it took us almost two years to close all the very first partner in some books I remember smart cal bears I Tara Reid walking that they were like the very first author dot trusted us on division I also trusted our our experience as entrepreneurial capacity to build a product and a capacity to leverage the eyepiece hold for what they really are yes trends basically bringing characters and stories and engaging defined in the coming each year around that so I decided to clean the brand new products here which is no longer just a game but the new formal experience and leveraging user generated content as well it's something that if you look right now into the overall industry I think only son books provide a cut beets for players operators crates now on to mix and remix the only experience with different ideas or to get her into a land could be she'd need to monetize it the way to walk and aggressively we've added more one more partners and from two years sign up for the first one hundred deal we've been able to shorten up that time will matter all since you mom's weakside best always we real crazy each year will work behind so every time you see a brand that comes into some books on the generals is not just an announcement you can already see a teaser gives you a preview of the content we are Rumeli fortress twenty just on the brand and how we're going to make you liberate supposed to be with three young men have arsenal

what's it like building a company like you know crypto affiliated company throughout a bear market because I see lots of companies that say all the bear market is really you know compressing our margins or it's making it harder to hire good quality people or to retain good people it you know as the chief operating officer do you see any of this kind of stuff you know your company your competitors or anything like that I'm what's it like running a a company like this during a bear market

show some books Starkey the blockchain honesty based version of sun books actually stocks you already know about market to walk two thousand eighteen it took us over a year and a half to close off first the wrong investment people didn't believe in the vision on people called like we couldn't execute the vision or like Mycroft within its you made no sense by then or like the market wasn't ready for it to work the well we just hope you and like I I explained before in our approach we focus on like building the tools showing that we can grow community and just like any startup than any truck program critical started using different in that sense you still have to prove you are the business model that you are a doctrine that you all right speaks bucket seats I'm still beyond that we kept on delivering progressively Bonner sheets product release

across all four user base and engagement to our products and today I think like we keep a shared very same rational lives we delivered yeah you've been pre we have the best engagement metrics ever so even if it's a bearish market from the crypto sites we can show that we offer layers and Gage was an issue with the water and they are here they're here for the game placed first for the socialization and they are participating in gauging we spray and earn in a meaningful way they are learning new skills as well as greater role players the

kind of makes sense that the gaming aspect in the social aspect would would actually see an uptick during a bear market because they need people to commiserate with they need community to distract them they need games to distract them and all that kind of stuff so what it what an interesting relationship there

in a frame you're right like this destruction but also more the Mavericks I think isn't is not something that a short lifespan we all know that it's going to be the next major disruption in all the on at least Morgan Stanley Goldman Sachs and set up things like these are going to be the next trillion dollar opportunity thank you Kate so we know grandma coming into we know this because system of builders specifically in some books now with two hundred surgeons to do what progressive the L. building on top of it and I don't look Chinese going it's taking time progressively but we're seeing it and it's not dependent on like market cycle because people quiet land they hold two they'll not be build on their land long jumps coming in under dental it's


and I think B. C.'s also design from the ground up to other real you cheat you told you to last whether it's your right to our I didn't teach you your equipment that you use in game to continue you will be able to experience and will bring them to life I got to explore net under sun bring life to it my interaction with all of that is very valuable alibi you goes to the community

there's so much going on over there I feel like I need a tour guide and that got me thinking what other types of creators have not been tapped into yet that you'd like to on board in the future like maybe not only tour guides or podcaster Daily News honestly a metaverse tour guide is like the best idea I think I've ever

yep yep you know what I definitely I think that will be millions of jobs and different jobs in the middle overs creators aqui tags fashion designers you can tell you only got nine years as well but content curation I think you're right like we've seen that before you too risky not going to go compete dress some people every day is it just try to aggregate what's the best for you if you need me based on your interests watch like what are the most thing yes


can use video to watch what

can you

trendy high T. codes on that face so you are dedicating your time to make sure that the older people save time that's valuable second thing is we're exploring virtual worlds and the way you can explore those your troubles everyone has a different appreciation of it but like your new CD you can just walk by every day the same box I'm not the attention to anything before kids but you can also look around you can see the nature you can not use the architect who designed these building you can build sorry Oct like what those materials the creation we have made all and some people attach more importance to the storytelling and the culture around them beyond just seen making all of all things were made until you see the final results and I think to guide can provide that value

yeah I I would almost be like you might also like old fashioned analog human algorithm of a person actually showing you what's going on that that day I think that we have a phenomenal you know channel or a service for hire I think it's just having an economy in this you know not in a virtual world the real world that is accessed through the computer

I have heard the

Beatles are gonna end up being created yeah absolutely of course

how did you move from like just the renting of places to like you all the discovery yeah activities or placed there that people can use the culture of a place in a metal recycling to be a very controlled you reach new diesel nation where you will encounter people from different nationalities from different backgrounds and also new type of craters

like I I like this analogy of like a digital sovereign state digital nation and it makes me think you know you get a bunch of people who can opt in to being a citizen of a certain metaverse land right in there could be a million different lands in sand box or in in the metaverse and it makes me think about like you know there there's gonna be a governance system there's gonna be voting there's going to be rules and it's you know people have actually more you know self identification sometimes maybe with their digital nation state than their own state and you know whatever country they live in so it's such a fascinating time and you know again like you said it all started with science fiction you know people kind of wrote about this stuff I thought about it I just read snow crash in in this reminds me a lot of that

we we all of these notion we want a twelve piece feeling of belonging belonging to a community or a country and we can sometimes we don't choose the country we actually all morning but we can choose a country we're living in and I think I commend a verse it's more interesting because we can we choose that or where we are going who will going to be where will bring to leave which future calls on which community we belong to

yeah that's an amazing thing that you built there can you tell us a little bit about who inspired you in the crypto space as you were getting into it and kind of maybe shape the way that you did the crypto and blockchain side of things

I think she this one person more specifically that differently being an amazing cult leader


we contributed to words like changing their blockchain gaming industry where he's now in his name he's got you the CEO and co founder also anymore kind of runs you can defeat me see


speaking most insurance and will not use I know god brings group which will apply to all of us I think investing over more than four hundred companies so they are helping the industry and they've been doing so seems roughly the same time as we join them two thousand eighteen they were the first to be sure of crypto kitties


you need

that kind of

calculator without conviction not only brought a truck for nurse founders communities on project but also older investors as anymore god runs keep bringing more and more run at best or into space to develop an overly consistent and off with three

what what's one other company that that you're looking at and you said Hey man they're doing something really cool they're doing something really valuable what's one other company

well there's plenty of company you know I'm the president of the blockchain game alliance we represent now over four hundred members so we do not holding up as well


four years of course hello right when we started all nineteen we were just a handful of projects singles project six eating and growing from open seating collection view team Crumpsall rare just to name a few but also like one leads then lead the ski or trusted to relay teams I think it's great to see and feel and share with like minded people who are building and as it does and I think it's important

love it man this was awesome Sebastian thank you so much for for coming on we have one closing question that we ask every guest who comes on the show it's kind of a simple one and it's just you know if this was the very first podcast that somebody getting into crypto and N. F. T.'s was to listen to what's one word of advice for somebody who's just breaking into the industry

all right one word of advice like makes your opinion about life and its keys on crypto like final project you lie I feel that appeals to you based on your interests try things all get on board join the discord get the community fielding at centre all if you're interested in a members start by creating you about taller and exploring those experiences you don't need to buy and if he's a crypto to get started I will come along like if you really feel for its center are you quite naturally will want to do more get more involved and maybe you can give me water for time you're going to stand order content all what you will be learning

that's a great word of wisdom just get involved roll your sleeves up and have some fun so Sebastian thank you so much for coming on to the crypto wanna one podcast weird enough people get involved sandbox dot com is your Twitter that people go find yes sandbox game or Twitter but also like just

live in

November second

you get one anyone can create another caller and starts covering

experience yet XP earned


it's like you

they will get more involved in white

traders sell

all right well thank you so much I will I'll hopefully see year round and next time we're over in France will drop by

definitely more than what