Pulse Developer Reveals Hidden PulseChain Secrets with Hexologist, Crypto Coffee. Pulse vs Ethereum 2.0 - Transcripts

September 30, 2022

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Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ILKP-jW7VE&t=21s


so you've got the Dev Kyle here he was like well I mean we'll let's just hear your story Democrat what is your your your role with hex at first right and are you I I don't know if you're working on post chain at all or is she just kind of in the background I'm sure you know some things at least you now yeah yeah I

how to answer that question

I guess that's sort of the big

yes the twenty nineteen I got turned on to the next project and just wanted to dive right in and teach myself how to do sort of smart smart contract programming

I thought

this sounds like a cool idea it kind of dispenses with a bunch of the frills and kind of B. S. surrounding crypto projects at the time this is sort of coming off of the twenty seventeen I see hype cycle and thought this would be a simple thing to get started with turns out hex was a simple idea that's very complicated in practice I ended up helping quite a bit with some of the design and game theory thoughts build much tools to sort of test and harden hypotheses about it and and help to kind of through the deaf and release process stuck around the community because of course the promise of tax is you sort of set it and forget it for years at a time but any practice that's not what happened it's a lot of questions

right yeah

I wouldn't do that but in a follow through on that plan


so just continued being an active community member helping folks with knowledge and code and have a kind of a long history at this point in software engineering large systems companies you've heard of so I have a lot of practical industry experience to kind of bring to the table and have continued with other kind of Richard Hart projects Richard Hart ideas just lending skills expertise knowledge I it's all volunteer based so it's as I have free time so when you ask am I working on post chain


I've dipped in and out I help how I can't but I do have a full time job so it has to be balanced against that

right interestingly I eat you I mean so you're just doing it for fun I I try always on money it's like you just do it for fun like you and cut you coated some of Hank's curliest I know you did the Monte Carlo simulations right yeah so I wrote

I wrote some simulation software and as we did in our rations on the contract and came up with different models in hopes of solving some of the core problems one of which is is to make longer pays better actually true that is much harder than it sounds


terrorism simulation software that we could plug in the contract and just see what it would do under kind of random conditions or you could bend it towards more realistic conditions as you wanted so there was that I actually did write some solidity code that did not make it into the final contract but there there is a funny story


that that the main contractor have only knew me by reputation because Richard would say in public we have this problem I would write some solidity code me being the new bill like I know how to do that that that that that that and then Richard would tell the main Dev Kyle wrote this merge it and like I would say who's Kyle

asked him why does he think he knows how to do this

survey we got off on the wrong foot because of that intermediary

communicator staying or not is not what were you you it were you and Richard like that to you do you guys can have contending well at some point that's a

good question

I don't think he and I

ever disagreed on the values so we were we teamed with always been very aligned on what's important and just talking terms of trade offs we can achieve these values but here the engineering trade offs that need to be made this a time to market verses sort of robustness trade off sometimes


does it

feature creep

that we could do that would solve these things would be pretty cool but will be slower will be hard or will be complicated so no I don't think we ever disagree on those things and me in the main Dev didn't actually disagree on the content of any of the changes it was just that the messaging of okay this guy came in he wrote some code merge it

right who is this guy yeah you're the new guy here than there are just

some guy from the internet wrote some code yeah

Lucy Hanks county for the fifty five fifty five years we're doing well thank you so much checks are spoilt we're doing very well we've got the generous two main men the the Kyle and I now have to hear an explosive so so yeah we we so what are your thoughts might big question for you and people are gonna you know this is very odd polarizing and has community right now what your thoughts on that


on the east chains now the extra forks to eat half and eat W. what that what's your long term thought sure turned out to be what do you think

that's a good question I didn't realize there was that I didn't realize there's so many thoughts actually so I I read briefly about the the E. W. thing that seems like a very laudable effort I can see why you could take a cynical view point and say this is a this is a cash grab this is just a straight fork you can clone some of the tooling and call your own thing and hope to extract some value but I also see it as a legitimately good idea to have a fail safe that you have changed state that you can fall back to because you can never be sure right I mean this whole emerges happened on this on purpose steak now if it turns out that experiment fails wouldn't it be nice to have stayed to go back to in a defy could just change which chain is legitimate by which one they will actually cash you out


if your USD zero U. S. T. T. or whatever

this whole

space of crypto to me is interesting in that it is all highly experimental and that the facts on the ground can change from day to day as you learn about who's a scammer or who


is actually doing like reserve banking but said they weren't you know you can sort of learning growing changing pivot and adapt because it's all in software and there's sort of a social consensus on top of that of what


what is backed like what what is made legitimate through to real fiat real fiat through the what is it the full face of governments

now and

so I don't have a strong opinion near term or long term money W. or enough


F. I don't know enough about but from what I understand was basically Polonia X. polony exist choice for a for a backup chain so it's hard to have an opinion because we don't know enough we don't know if those are going to survive or if they're just gonna be centralized versions of the old thing


Ethereum in the one dot era was highly decentralized in terms of who was minding it comparatively like across the space


if F. ends up being just a bunch of Polonia X. owned miners that won't be decentralized it probably will fail that test of confidence over time if Powell may


up totally legitimate secondary chain because their pitch is basically how you spent all this money on mining hardware GPUs are solar rigs or whatever you're doing I just pointed out that many might it forever

right I like the not getting around the bush on that either like Chandler the founder he basically said verbatim this is some minors can continue mining vertical criticizing for that but it's actually the honest truth you could show the narrative a proof of work is better but he knows it's pretty objective I mean for for burger steak people fight about that all day long but the real reason is just minor need to make money and to me it seems like a pretty it'll be around a while whether or not it's highly successful price wise that's another thing but I'll be around yeah yeah I

wish to try to nine right it's not creating a running on a six R. G. P. is there already purchased they're already operational

yeah so I had one question big show question for you if you bill hex today would you different do differently from whatever we've done one thing the NGO a little bit different

what's one thing you'd do differently I think I don't think we have strong evidence that the bitcoin claim was useful

that's not my idea I think that you would do that

yeah I mean so this is come up in a couple of context recently that feature dominated all of the security audit attention N. accommodated a lot of the development and infrastructure slash operational time in being able to quickly jump to address state of the bitcoin chain compress that down into balance is an addresses build out the data you needed to make the claims upload that to the website so that you could generate claim proofs this huge amount of engineering time and figuring out all the different address types and kind of exhaustively figuring out how to cover the most different kinds of bitcoin addresses and the data


pretty tepid in in terms of who actually claimed and then they just dump their coins


so you know it didn't get put positive press it didn't have any stickiness for the vast majority of of bitcoin people who participated and I don't know that it was in that when

was that yeah because it took you guys it was because they had to do all of them Merkle tree stuff within that takes like a month long as part of the development was that part was trying to get

that class not quite there that's not quite either Richard pivoted on a lot of features the development cycle

I think that

honestly took the most time the big point claim stuff was in from the beginning because that was the whole pitch is like I think he's even talk about this publicly his idea basically it was how do we export bit coin state under the theory of change because if you're in chain has more features more inter operability and more of a run way more of a future than the bitcoin chain but how can we take that ballot state and let you move it to Afaria we're gonna do a bitcoin derivatives you know state transfer so that was like the core of the idea and then all this other stuff and all this other stuff I ended up taking a huge amount of time because there was a lot of back and forth on I mean it is going to do that we explore features that we kill them they prove intractable etcetera etcetera it did take the lion's share of the auditing time it because that is a domain in which auditors feel comfortable so they can look at things like signatures Merkle trees that's their area of expertise is sort of a more straightforward or security primitive stuff so that's why they focus their attention as such it then becomes annoying to to explain this phase goes away you don't need to worry about that area its interests are

yeah yeah is it all out there so it's probably like not really like you said it was almost not worth it for you as to what is it easier to do the Ethereum system state

would have been easier to do the

same state meaning like big coin like a free claim for like we did for Dick because they got they got one one instead of

massively easier

massively yeah it's not like I would have like I if I if it was me I wouldn't have done big point I don't know if it would have been easier for me you know just what you said now it be easier but I wish they could give the if there is anything guys and I think Richard said this to you

there are

a lot more you know open minded to to give away the the you know like take to buy two new thinks they like okay this time specially in the R. C. twenty you'd think yeah yeah

they may not have been as unfriendly as bitcoin people


from a technical point of view the fact that bitcoin does UT XO first is account based balances it's actually very complicated so they have a lot of different address types and those addresses can be associated with your same private key but be different address types so it's actually quite difficult to compress your claim data to vend actually generate a valid claim so there's certain address types that don't work at all it within bitcoin there's a bunch of complexity it has a long history of going through many changes and of different systems adopting different types of addresses it's very complex Ethereum very straightforward all of your balances are associated with one address one account one user account and it's very easy in contract code to verify signatures for the for a single address so even if you have multiple addresses it would be very easy to generate signatures and verify the

cal Ripken coffee got any anything well from what I was going over people's heads including myself

well I

feel like this is so much more than I could have ever imagined I think back to what I knew about crypto in general when I first got into hacks it is just I have been I had Z. and I still do it so it's kind of like you know it's it's kind of like a martial arts would you come to the realization that you do you're just have zero idea what's going on you know yeah I mean that's kind of what I'm getting right now I'm watching you do some crazy blues right now you know is it I can tell you are Jesus you blacked out right

not I don't know not applicable nine and No

I that your agency fan yeah


thank god so you know what I'm talking about and when you watch different level you know difference thousand digits there were different levels are just you roll somebody's savage but you know a black belt you're like oh lord I have no idea what I'm doing I'm a little child again

it does the parallels pretty good


because if you come in as a novice people are doing stuff like you can see action happening but you can't interpret it you're you're just you're literally not able to really see what's happening


but you know it and it's actually kind of me watching soccer is like this what was that are we they win like I don't I don't understand what's happening regular with lex clock stoppages

yes you don't running sometimes or is yeah is it like why is why is it stop now it's going now okay it's over time you guys said it was gonna go it's nine oh arbitrary ninety exactly and

you should too as you learn because it is very knowledge based and sort of recognizing patterns and giving yourself sort of a routine to follow to yeah after the position you want to get him as you learn more you can interpret more of what you're saying

but as

you get to the deeper levels are higher levels people are able to play games with your perceptions


make you think you are seeing something you go for it but it was a trap

are they know they know the the step that you're going for the sequel yeah movement so you're going to yeah I think they all that arm out there yeah

I I bet you consider this arm if you want it and then

what else will get you like tap yourself out it may be you get yourself into a ship position or and it's like how do you guys play but that's kind of how I feel listening to you talk about development all the work in and attention that goes into every little thing different aspects of these you know heck specific is really interesting

yeah it is a very detail it's a very detail oriented process there is a lot that happens in the crypto space that is a little bit fast and loose because software generally is


done when you treat it iteratively that we're gonna do just enough to learn something and then we will fix what's broken and move forward having tight feedback loops in that way tends to grow the best software or evolve the best software because you can think about something until you're blue in the face but there will be angles you didn't consider or

just the fact

that you didn't know that you will be revealed to you when you try to run the system life

even here Richard talk about that right like he's he's talked about like and this is a crazy feature that I just realized I didn't really have any thought about or intention of you know it wasn't an intention it a feature that you created yeah like the emergent properties right like the galaxy itself is an emergent property but also I think correct me if I'm wrong like Kailyn your simulations I think they kind of expected average weighted steak length of around two to two and a half years and it blew everyone's minds that in reality it's closer to seven years now so people are really going like way way farther than we expect them to

yeah that they're a bunch of things that didn't bear out it was very useful to do those exercises sucks so share rate came out of that I'm a big payday came out of that actually so that was that was a conch there a couple of concrete pieces of feedback I gave on a couple of occasions that bore out in simulation and actually changed Richard mind and one of them it was paid


yeah it's not the

end big payday you're you're the okay we will thank you thank


the Schering was one of those innovative things I mean in in the history of crypto currency in my opinion like once people understand it and people that don't think it's a big deal really don't understand it yet yeah yeah


but that was

it I don't take sole credit for that we were talking about that particular feature for a long time I synthesized

several ideas

and came up with that as a pitch


I think we can do this and I think here's how we should do it there was a community member

I had

an idea like it early on but couldn't solve for bonus sing and consult for a few of the other things but the basic idea of things getting more expensive over time rather than inflating existing stakes was sort of the core idea and then there are a couple of specific of the things that that I came up with that that I will take credit for that but the big payday that was that was a hundred percent me

because I

the way it worked before that

was that

a small percentage


the unclaimed the coin would be awarded to each day of the launch here and I just showed in simulation after simulation this will never have the property that Richard wanted

which was

you don't benefit massively for learning about it one day earlier and there was no way around that

it just be

just distributing so many coins every day just made that impossible


compressing it all to one day at the end we take one snapshot of everything on claimed and everybody who states gets caught

up that was

that was the way to do that

and did you guys think that there is going to be way more people free claim in the back when I'm guessing you did because you said so

yeah we ran the whole range from you know what tenth of a percent


ninety percent


people who could claim

yeah that's pretty pretty disappointed he said that general vibe on had drawn and I Costa what is thank you for the seventy five thank you thank you so

it's not directed at me

yes there are city area



everything that I've seen from the developer behind those has been very honest and forthright and good intentions Hey drawn itself I don't think I understand why people like it as much as they do I get it as an idea and we talked about a caplet stakes years ago and I like that he has kind of a protocol first approach by making it S. your C. seven twenty one compatible the the added feature of basically auctioning off distressed debt is good that mirrors another real world thing so that this is I don't know what I. Costa does honestly I don't I don't keep up that much but as a general five I get good vibes from Alex I think of the dove behind those things

yeah we got another question from lights out he says what do you think about the go laying why we went from cope is literacy but why pivoted from calling by rewrite for polls yup when the going rate for polls the consensus code essentially being taken out of yes the lady in South

but that that


what a good question so here's the problem with having your consensus on chain you become subject to the constraints of your virtual machine so imagine for a moment


of all use an actual example so in the in the game minecraft they introduced us on the code red stone which you can use to like

they'll push you information


yeah yeah

so ten years ago I think it was like ten years ago I saw a demonstration where somebody built a CPU in minecraft right and that CPU obviously worked at like one operation per ten seconds or something like something it just horribly slow because when they zoomed out it took up thousands of square feet to to build this like one thing and that's a lot like what the Syrian virtual machine is doing because its primary job is to output state changes like proofs I started it


and I did some stuff

and if you do that stuff you'll get B.

just like I got


that's its primary


the primary artifact the it spits out

is that

if I make the state changes I end up at B. and that's verifiable everyone else can do that too and because that computer has to run


in your computer it is it has to be less powerful by definition because it's less powerful and also subject to the rules


I have to be able to replicate exactly what you did excuse me the it constrains what you can do so it's it's open like you can look at the code you can run a decompiler and like see what it's actually doing and that's that's nice that has a nice properties the fact that hex is readable on the public blockchain like the source code is there means that we can always address questions that the people have like Hey what's this about him it's about I don't think this works right yeah it definitely does and you can see so if you if you want that transparency the cost is you have to run it in this virtual computer and that comes a certain kinds of constraints moreover the nodes that are running the software to come to a consensus have to transmit the information between them and then they become subject

to all of the


vulnerabilities like if you if you need to have two computers agree on the output and convince a third computer you have fewer tools available to you if that has to take place in the context of the virtual computer

June so

moving into golang gives you more performance because you get to use your actual computer rather than the virtual computer you're not constrained by only doing things that that the virtual computer can do because like the virtual computer has to account for every step and write produce here are the steps I took it has to basically ship its algorithm to other computers using my real computer I can you shortcuts regular engineering shortcuts and anybody else is free to write software that does the same thing use their own shortcuts used their own like optimized stuff in different programming languages so without explanation I think that's the right call I think the starting point of doing that in the in the virtual machine like in contracts was a good it was like a good faith effort Hey let's put this on the blockchain so it's all there like everybody can just interact with blockchain into their stuff and they can have confidence that it's all true because it's happening on change

but I think

as a practical concern you can't run a blockchain from within a blockchain

instead it makes sense I mean so it's a lot quicker and you can easy easier to develop and everything on right as I wouldn't put us

and you just have more tools available to you to fix things or to do large operations one thing the blockchain is not good at doing this large operations so imagine you need a contract like say the staking contract to do ten thousand things

maybe it can't

maybe I can't do that in three seconds or five seconds or whatever

hi this is more throughput effectively is that true it's

it's through put and again you just you have access to more traditional engineering tools and constructs whereas within the blockchain within solidity and the assembly language that compiles down into your just constrained it can only


the kinds of primitive operations that it can spit out evidence for whereas in a traditional programming language you don't have that constraint

that's crazy wasn't taking place actually crazy go head crop what was it taking up like almost the whole block like I'm not even sure what ratio of the block that the contents code was taking up

well so here's the other the other thing that's hard to foresee so this is something that in Hexham you're asking that the process of developing it you have to develop it assuming that people are going to interact with it in certain ways or certain numbers of people are going to interact with it

in a

in a given time because there's all this timing stuff that can happen if you try to cram everything like in the last block of the day like you try to start your steak

right at

right before the day rolls over because there's some thing you're trying to game I'm


with the consensus code all can play games with it they could try to do a bunch of things at critical timing windows to but it could cause unexpected behavior or to cause something weird to happen we saw this in practice and in fact we were a little bit in ocular to to this fact with hacks because we saw what happened with EOS EOS went through this with their launch phase where people were playing games by entering the the days


right at the last minute and and just paying high gas fees to just like ram in


they're hearing them right at the last minute are you would watch a graph throughout the day and you could see somebody just missed the cut off because we started with the next day I got

to yeah I got that and takes the two I mean did

we did so if anything that should have been that should have been enough evidence that trying to pursue consensus layer stuff or paying stickers stuff in a contract was going to be subject to those sorts of timing problems

right interesting I got another question if we want to prove it so I'm not sure how much you know about this related post dated element but I think a lot of people are also wondering there's been bugs found in both Ethereum and binance marching that were then discovered by posting developers and fixed with impulsion are you allowed to publicly talk about those or do you know that I will

I will err on the side of not talking about the

one okay are they critical with

this there are limits to what


can copy from other successful projects when you don't operate in the same context that those projects operate so not to be too vague binance Mart chain operates in the context


it has an external controller B. N. B. chain messages BSE and tells it who the new validators are so that doesn't sound like that big a deal it's like oh so I just need something to tell me what the new validators are and then I could write that and then I'll just tell myself adult but that's actually harder than it sounds and and you then start to realize

there are some safety net things you can do when you have an external authority that you can't do from within your system similarly to the operating in the context of a virtual computer it is constrained by its rules so if you put all the rules in the virtual computer then you have a hard problem of trying to fix yourself if somebody finds something that you couldn't do anything about B. S. B. S. C. doesn't have that problem because they have a fail safe in B. and B. M. similarly has a large community and most people are kind of watching each other and they're able to adapt relatively quickly if they find somebody being exploitive with the notable exception


the that was the one pool that was doing the on coal attacks where they were like intentionally **** with the clock to to orphan off other blocks they're doing that for like two years and I think it was only recently published in the paper how you could do it and Hey we analyzed who's been producing blocks and for two years this one mining pools been doing that systematically there are things like that that you can't really go back and fix


if you have lots and lots of eyes on the problem maybe you can fix forward so that's what I'll say about that is that the ecosystems are different contexts different so there are limits to what you can practically just lift from those and re use

so it sounds like the fixes related to keeping validators honest in terms of the rotation and maybe slashing as well

in that in that in this complex yeah in that neck of the woods

okay thank you for the thirty seven I wish I could think as fast as this guy can we get this knowledge maybe once a week Hexcel coffee well yeah I mean we live I am sure that I've got you know just those coding on for fun for all state yeah got ample amount of time yeah I was just calling out like

I'm barely employable no one wants

to work for the is this like this has to be good for us there we depend on

I don't put the summers now

you know

these these worlds are separate from me

the truth okay excellent I talk about that how there's the crypto world and then a a real world that you're in and there's a balance that you got to mess with yeah yeah yeah it's

nothing malicious about it it's just frankly I don't want to be asked in a professional context about it because my initial experience with crypto was very disappointing so like twenty sixteen twenty seventeen I was looking into to basically voting integrity like why don't we have electronic voting more ubiquitously and it does a bunch of research papers on protocols for corrosion resistant voting it's technically feasible but there's all these like how do you deal with strong on governments and how do you deal with people just literally selling their private keys how do you deal with this that the other blockchain kind of comes up as a concept as in an append only database that you could just come publicly post info that got me come into this world I got super into it taught myself kind all the cryptography I needed and was sort of working on it talk to some professional colleagues about it and I had this horrible disappointing experience right got together like twenty people who said they were interested in blockchain and I said okay so here's what I know and I put together a power point presentation and like went through stuff and that took twenty minutes and then the other forty minutes were people talking about

their their day trading on what was a bit by

the facts yeah I was bitten acts at the time


all have you tried this have you tried that I'm using these charts it was just trading nobody had any technical interest at all I tried one more time and the crew could tear down from like twenty people to like five and then there was the same thing they just talk about trading and then it was just me the next time so

okay this is a hard sell

this is it I guess these worlds are separate and so that

way I mean I'm gonna sing their story in the the rat race world basically that it wasn't so much the people were just two Daejeon to care about the the blockchain itself in terms of being traitors but it was more so all getting together and trying to figure out what blockchain is and how to use it now is actually a project manager on the team that built an internal app for the company I work for that it was basically like an internal company crypto currency that you could send to other people R. as a reward for doing positive behavior in the company but what I realize is that even the developers that were in charge of this like nobody really was sticking to the principles they just wanted to flex that they knew blockchains the other clients when they came to us because yeah we know about blockchain but I mean every pitch every idea nobody could really get over the fact this is really a right only database you can edit this it's immutable it's supposed to be so all the applications that we were talking about building I really didn't need blockchain at all we just wanted to use the buzz word so disappointed by the fact that nobody seemed to understand like the crypto fundamental principles and we go ahead and we make this app is very successful everybody loves it so that everyone is asking like the main dub or me Hey can you revert my transaction I didn't mean to send it to that guy it's like we're not did you know that's not the point you're like that's great totally missing the plot so I think that they're currently being a separate world isn't just innovating so much faster than the mainstream can really catch on too so that's why I I like to keep it separate


like a good idea that's how we got we got a question for you do you know about E. I. P. one four four four and do you think it'll cause issue with the headaches in the future if I wanted

something ask me about this earlier today no so this is a client optimization to not store or vend


older than a year us about block cashes in law thanks those are things that clients care about if you want to

like look at

the guts of what happened in the block two years ago

that data is available

on the blockchain

but your

client software that has a copy of the database doesn't necessarily need to keep that data around to tell you


so let's say you have a website


I realized I need to

get higher

let's have a website and that website says Hey enter an address here I'll tell you everything it's done for the last five years so okay zero X. but up up up up and it spits it all out


it's doing is it has some software

that has a copy

of the blockchain and it's searching through all the transactions were associated with an address and then it's going to send that back


your website and you display it what yeah I pay for for for for for for for for for does


basically tells client software sort of crawls the database the crawler it tells the crawler you gonna stop after a year

don't bother

don't walk and that's fine tonight your website doesn't work anymore because your website will stop looking after a year hex as a contract on the blockchain


definition has to have the full state of the blockchain available because if I send a transaction to a some transaction note whether I'm running one or use and Kerr or whatever alternative and I say Hey I want to execute this contract I want to end the steak



do that

to actually execute the contract requires that do these look ups in the database not for logs not for transaction history but for the actual data


on this day or in this memory slot which took place on this day what are the data associated with that now at that and go to the next memory slot at that and go to the next memory slot so it's it's

directly tied to the data

that's stored on archive notes so if you have an archive of the blockchain then


then the contract has to work

from what I read on that the E. I. P. they are on

the space which is the client optimization so you don't have to carry around

sort of ancient data for it

the more superficial use cases

like what happened two years ago

with this address


that shouldn't affect the actual operation of hacks for practical purposes it does mean that Kodak's dot com can't use off the shelf client software one if that change gets adopted by the main clans because forget to tell you about your steaks in the past it does need logs it does any transaction histories and events and things like that

you're saying so yeah let's see Zen crypto Jack Levin discuss I'm a fan I don't know man I don't not even looked into it I don't know I don't I don't even know what it was on our show he's in like you did I know that it's going out or anything else so I'll call it an interesting experiment with no sacrifice thank god and it's free for to claim for anyone so other yet interesting experiment that might also be a decent adoption tool when it exists on posting because you could tell people a conflict claims free cost free tokens I don't know if tragedy of the Commons will happen with the price that's what I'm skeptical about but that's all I've got so far like a good intentions low risk I mean he's a very nice guy to talk to yes smart said that thank you they keep yours up so what about that is the question I had one at the rear prefer steak happened why don't we just copy the proof of stake chain to make portion why wouldn't we just take that and just I mean this is Mari just of work and proof of stake this and that is Austin will be

Austin I'm there's some things that are different


about hearing prefer steak from BSE so

the pitch

for cloning BSE one billions of dollars


hundreds of projects have launched on it successfully


no large scale hacks or exploits on bridges not withstanding but the core chain seems to work just fine the validator sat is


and finite it's U. thirty thirty three

excellent at

her maybe that's what we ended up with neighbors anyone now

I don't know I had one

I think they did bump it up to more but it was small small compared to thousands or hundreds of thousands that that even if it was targeting so yes he also had faster block times kind of as one of its selling points the reason I can do that is because it has a small number of validators and the expectation can be that those validators are running beefy machines


two dozen optimized for those things


the tenets of youth to


let's maintain the property anybody with computer compartments to pay and can be a validator so it should it should not require heavy lifting on a computer where you need like a server's server grade computer each bill to do this on a personal computer we need an algorithm that can select randomly or unpredictably from a huge number of validators because we had a huge number of minors so now we need to support a huge number of validators

we want

to keep


mining rewards and

no oh oh my goodness Ragnar yesterday yes I don't know I have no idea for the reported jewelers Iraq since Friday though yeah I

said they wanted to keep mining rewards kind of married to the London hard fork yeah I P. one five five nine so the sort of flexible block size whereas BSE just increased the block size again because they can make this assertion that you're running large server grade


so yes he was the starting point because I had a lot of the key performance features that are interesting faster


smaller set of validators so this sort of fewer people you need to keep your eyes on


bigger blocks so you can have kind of more traffic

and one of the

the common complaints that I think we've all had


one point now is that building businesses are building applications that demand storage or demand being able to handle spike throughput as plots of people to do things it's just untenable it's too expensive or your transactions get rejected and the eco system was just kind of unfriendly BSE set out to be friendly to those things so that's why it seemed like a much better starting point than than Ethereum at the time and that in some sense remains true that hearing him too is trying to maximize on certain parts of the things you can do that that we don't necessarily care about

that said

there is a case for doing that because while it hasn't had the track record of success the BSE has with businesses launching on it without any problems it has had a lot of eyes on it and has had a lot


baking time on the testnet


now it's live and so if you start from there and work on it then whatever changes you need to make all of that time is spent hardening the main thing as well so I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea or a bad thought now that were in that world like a year ago that that wasn't the case but now we are it seems worth thinking about but people should also remember there was a reason that BSE was the starting point the BSE set out to address some of the complaints that people had about Ethereum it just didn't carry a Syrian state

on let's see we got was what the heck Steph curry was too smart for we mere mortals that's great so I think you are thank you yes he is is very intelligent we love having him DA cryptic offer you have any questions I'm not right now I mean so so basically what you're saying is that because we're fork of binance marching more so than each one one of the main differentiators is less validators and where is if you still want everybody to be able to plug and play or sacrificing basically centralization for performance yeah

this press

to some degree on on it I mean I'm not saying anything is centralized or decentralized people need to think about that on a spectrum right

yeah exactly it's on the blockchain


the centralization let me give an example of a different chain entirely that did have a problem with the CEOs yes in some ways was the progenitor to a lot of these things said


were the first general purpose chain that was well known and well funded that wanted to do delegated proof of stake and it it turned into a disaster because they had a bunch of levels of the direction there was huge amounts of collusion between the the block producers the way that they did delegation was goofy they had to keep writing custom tools to do things and they didn't let you just have general purpose execution on your machines you actually had to lease CPU memory and storage individually so sort of overly complicated for what it tried to do and it didn't have any good hygiene mechanisms


get yourself out of a bad situation the a concrete example you couldn't sell your last EOS token because you needed it to pay for the compute to sell it so you're just like stock with just some amount that you can never say like

to totally get rid of all that

now you can't ever get because you need that one cute to sell one

the because you all your money function and all the twenty one validated right yeah

yeah yeah so that that's what I mean by collusion and cartel


and I don't just collapsing they could vote on what the inflation should be for their term

yeah today my my code for million I've guys that own the validators twenty yeah yes it

did a bunch of just operational problems and it just ideas that may have sounded good I don't wanna get too to derisive because the person who came up with these ideas is well known in the space of having had a lot of successful projects but this sort of like ivory tower architecture kinds of ideas were all in what if like Amazon you pay only for what you use computer memory or storage you could trade offs it but yet nobody does everyone just wants a computer to compute things and store things and loads of things into memory

like insiders was also notorious for leaving as projects half baked so it is the

same guy I think


thanks and god yes

so that to me

is the example to keep in the forefront of our minds well you don't want things to be too complicated the start from a working thing is a good approach to what I said before is also true that there are limits when you change the context

right what do you think that posting is going to be taken so long like with Hey you know because it's like because Hextall that's our eight years ago and so Hey you know I'm posting just like you know we've seen it and we've seen other things already come out and they're not working Bernie Hey guys yeah

this is so the perennial conspiracy theory that the hexes like right on the verge of rug pulling everyone has been pretty funny for the last several years because actual rug polls come and go you know twice a month the


think people don't really understand that scams can be fast like this now


ruled that they just will just keep pulling just keep falling


so why is posted taken so long I'm


that context change adds a lot of


now I'm gonna answer this differently hacks had to be as robust as it was because there was no central authority there is no emergency lever to pull

it's like

figuring out how to launch a rocket that's going to get to Neptune you need to protect all the orbits all the gravitational wobbles all the positions of everything because once that rocket leaves the launch pad


can't adjust it


that did this like micro adjustments may be through thrusters but then you run out of fuel and then you can't adjust anymore and it's just going and it's just going to go into space hex was that way and I think Richard knew that and that was one of the core tenets that there is no lever there's no emergency stop that ethic also has to be brought to post change a huge number of people sacrificed an enormous amount of crypto

with the

with the expectation not of the proper work of others but the expectation that the same ethic of rigor and security and trust listeners and I'm gonna say safety but hopefully you know what I mean it's not gonna just


knocked over or exploited immediately

black in the externalities

yeah it's it's going to be a robust L. one on par with any of the other L. ones

and hopefully better

because we've seen some of the failure modes for things like salon for example

when you do things in a in a particular way now writing a blockchain is much harder than writing a product for a blockchain so hacks has some guarantees because it runs on a blockchain your your transaction will either fully work or fully not it is treated as a


transaction so if I try to end the steak and I run out of gas then it just says nope you didn't it doesn't partially and that it doesn't put it in a weird state where I can't cover a block chain but the consensus layer can get into weird states it has to communicate with other computers has to come to agreement has to resolve when two computers don't agree if the figure out what to do if one of the validators is offline and they keep missing their turn

like what do you do

it has to resolve what happens when two computers think it's their turn at the same time for whatever reason if you get one person controlling five other validators like how do you deal with that is that really a problem what could they


if they got five turns in a row you think about a much larger set of vulnerabilities are problems no that's just if you were to invented from scratch now you're taking something that is already known to work but when you press on it a little bit and you say okay but we're changing the context we don't have B. and B. we don't have a secondary chain that messages with the rotation ought to pay


there these little

like imagine

you have a scarf and there's like little bits of yarn a little bits of thread kind of dangling off of it because hand that stuff has that and that's little errors little places where you had to tie off and start again and you notice those to go out so that's weird

but that's fine

I mean we're just following the scarf pattern so we just do this car and if you look at it closely enough and you start to pull on those and say well I I kinda want to button this up and make it look sharp summoner just like put that out we start pulling it and it just starts unraveling like a section up here you


that's weird do I keep pulling on this story just cut it off what what's

what's the point in you're right

like I don't know how to


it like a police

I'm not new to under here yeah your

so it's easy for me to describe

it it's hard

because of a context change that doesn't seem like a big deal until you see why it's a big deal but the process of seeing why it's a big deal is hard work and it only comes for testing it only comes through creative ideas of how to push and pull and flex the system

tonight yeah

to make sure it does what people are expecting it to do and what we expect of ourselves and I'm speaking I'm yeah I'm not I'm saying that in terms of the community


what I know about Richard what he expects of himself and the things that he release

that's right out the for the hundred dollars unity needed this confidence thanks Kyle

I wanted to pay you for this

please wait a second I don't look behind that curtain all right so I got a really big question what are you most excited for with bullshit what is it what is the most like exciting feature that you see that it's like being built on top of it or in it I mean all sex oral sex if you want

your you know it's funny what excites me is actually neither of those things


bridges bridges are what I get excited about so is it the old bridges

the only way

that you

what's Richard's term global domination the only way you get there is if you invite everyone to come play at your house

all right and the only way to do that is with bridges

but bridges sock bridges are terrible

right there

right now they are basically somebody did use their backyard carpentry skills to set up a bridge and they charge a toll and they just hope it doesn't collapse with you on it


it's sort of what it feels and they always do and they get happy

you know as always somebody at the bridge ready

waiting to take your money all amazing amazing is a troll under the bridge


it was exciting to me was


and researching how that is essentially an unsolved problem right now so for me it long term the exciting unsolved problem

that if we

could uniquely solve it may not sound very impressive to people but it's the kind of thing that if it just keeps working for years then it will put to rest all doubters and serious business can come on board because serious business has like real due diligence they have people and lawyers and things that will need to fat your your tack if they're if they're gonna use it for whatever they want these blockchains for and the more bullet proof pieces you can put together that


competitive strategic advantages the better you are positioned and bridges are one of those things that nobody has done right because it's still an active area of research and so nobody really even knows how to do them right so like it's an area that we could break new ground

or as

I like Paul Sexton pulse chain and all those things I like those just fine but that's not what excites me what excites me at the unsolved problems

yeah that's cool because I I mean we see a bridge check almost every week you know it's like doing the news like yeah in another bridge pack of a hundred million dollars gone there's a twenty million dollars there and so are they make in their own R. I know are they going to use the op I don't think they're going to use on the rich right are they doing sure

Oslo was a starting point on the bridge AMD is the it's an open source starting point

I think

that is the code base that the cuts started from there's been a couple of changes to it on on a ship in a bit out of touch for two three months or something as


anyway I've been out of touch making

like ten years and that you know the character

so as a starting point that was kind of the that's where we came to so that part of the process the deliberation early on


was made a few other people that were really actively engaged on trying to find what's the best starter bridge and I think the original thing was like ever gonna do a bridge with no admin case but maybe a few other people are like that doesn't actually exist so here's what we should do that's kind of the next best


for the short term and then medium long term we should solve that

because that is a completely unique value proposition that does not exist today

do you think that the admin keys at some point will be burned or just gone or do you think that always

bridges so the thing with bridges is that that's basically you need regulators and you need real layers to be trusted so it doesn't mean much to burn admin case because I I don't necessarily mean you have an administrator who can unlock funds I mean you have to get the data from here to there and you have to be able to trust that that data is correct otherwise somebody can basically double spend for on the native chain and on the foreign chain

are you

nobody has a solution to get around that problem yet


said that's where this kind of an active area of research of


how do I trust data from your chain

is that what's taking so long to think of for that will change the bridge now skip account so we got a question here five dollars fifty five thank you Jordan are we allowed to ask if there will be a test of version three or what we think about it is right but it is right now allowed to ask whatever you want to forget it not a lot of that no answer for you okay

cancel a person gets

you know what I ve has the version three or anything I

ISIS backed there would be just given that it's not like we're letting testnet V. to bake for the fun of it

right I mean let's see dad Kyle help heck so bring Richard from the corner you're sure of information should allow him to fast okay we can bring about for that just heard that and can I say one more thing to just for a disclaimer I'm very spoiled tax again and the cats were not planned I'm telling you right now that's a total students not let's see we got another one from peers if you could choose only one pollster pulse at I mean I'm I'm guessing that's directed at you Kyle

does that make sense because post sex exists on pulse

if you can only have one so if you got a man that I think many which coin pumps harder is what they're trying to say I thought it was like one couldn't exist without the other although it's yet another record which one would you rather own you know it's really funny



I haven't had to give this disclaimer in a while I am terrible at price goals


terrible at it I wouldn't trust me I'm not gonna give me an answer because if you take my advice you're wrong and if you don't if my eyes are wrong

I have I try I don't even try to get that one I'm like I don't know


let's see you got anything corporate coffee I got I've got a couple more but you go ahead I guess I could just make an analogy for the lay person like myself so it just sounds like you know all these consider Paul chain is not what I really like the Richard does he doesn't like to see he'll he'll like the beta tests software that's worth millions of millions of dollars he likes a president to be sat and so everything that you do see impostors and integration of good **** that works that's been working fine for months and months and years taking the best ideas from previous development and building on the shoulders of giants so it's like Steve Jobs iPhone he didn't invent the concept of a smartphone right internet connected phones been around for awhile it Motorola razr maybe even set the blackberry the first my phone he just made it way better he made what people wanted just like you know Tesla then invent a car he just made a really really good car so I think culture is the same way picking apart what we want for a specific use case which is user experience cheap fast and number go up yeah let's see Jordan L. are there plans to upgrade to either scan for block explorer

plans are great for so we know that that the software that runs the block explorer now is bad and we knew that but it was free so is free to clone and kinda hacked to pieces to get a block explorer it has been well known that that is it's


that even the company that produces that that software knows it's bad it's what it would be a C. started with but it just doesn't


cantor question either scan as a product I bet they would charge a lot of money to support your chain

are they charge a million Bucks or something

Casso a


I think if that person has a million Bucks

that could happen that are beyond so I have a question so there's you know there's some fired around Hanks at fifteen years some of the stakes their stake for five thousand five hundred fifty five days that they're in the day it's going to fill up past the block for Ethereum so you won't even be able to on state some of the stakes because they're so big and they'll fill up the box with all the the data that it's got to do is that did did you guys do some simulations on that now we just cast obviously yes obviously well as my five year old nephew your

order did not

it was actually

to originally the Max like the fifty years

right I remember though I was the originals back

fifty years during the audit process we learned about improvement proposal eighteen eighty three


changed P. load data cost and so testing was done to determine what the route it to the limit would be calm on the number of days that could be processed it was test exam tested exhaustively


well I think it the actual upper limit is a bit higher than five five five five that was the practical kind of a fun number to use

okay so let me

give a more detailed answer

one of the

issues with area

is that they

will make changes that are retroactive so when they change the storage low cost it becomes the new cost even if you launch your application before that was true


so there was some risk that they were gonna change it again and increase the cost and then five five stakes

five five five five

stakes are would be too expensive or too much the counter balance is that the people know that they're playing with fire every time they do one of these things they never really have a plan for how to deal with existing applications and existing data but they are aware that they're doing this show


the I. PA one five five nine they introduced this idea of flexible gas limits within blocks so there may come a time


twelve years or whatever that you go to and that steak

and you'd

do fill up a block but you fill up a twenty million gas block and serve a twelve million gas block and in fact at the time the contract was launched if you recall it was eight million gas blocks so that gas limit per block was creeping up over the last few years even without the specification change the gives you flexibility between blocks so it's six it's a good question it was considered and tested for and even though the ecosystem is a bit unstable it's self correcting a little bit and you know nobody knows the future but seems like it should be okay

okay I've got a question oh god go ahead go ahead well this is related to the hikes more contracts and it just only bring it up because some guy much smarter than me brought it up maybe a year ago and I never really got a closure on the answer but I know that how to calculate the daily payouts pretty sure over everything you know I'm asked

are these continue every single

calculated every single day which basically racks of gas right so they're saying why don't you just take an array put all the daily payouts and they're due for loop I'm sure it's not that simple I'm sure there's a reasoning behind choosing do it maybe it's an accuracy thing this is

polite variation on the question as I've heard it

well so you heard

sharks are so right now the daily payouts are in an array the problem is that each slot of that array is stored as as chain storage so you have to load each one which is why it does it in a for loop

as it happens


that's why Iraq at the gas cost the version of this question that I've heard is why don't you use an accumulator and then to a subtraction from the last eight of the first day and so an accumulator would be each day you see started zero then day one you calculate what the pay out per T. share payout per share is let's say it's one point one so you add that ninety one point one the next day do the same thing but now it's it's two point one see you at that now you have three point two to one point one plus two point one is three point two

and you just do this

through all of time and your stakes reference the day you start it and the day you end so you have the accumulator state when you start that's a one point one and then now someday in the distant future it's a thousand the difference is nine hundred ninety eight point nine


that's your pay out per share accumulated over all those days times the number of days and your payout why don't you do that because that's very simple you just attracted thanks


is where accuracy and error come comes into play so the blockchain does not store decimal data so you can't store one point one you have to store up eleven divided by ten or something which you can't do that either you can't really store fraction you have to store multiple numbers you have to be represented as a fraction because it's it's fixed point math meaning that everything is a whole number

the way that

coins simulate decimals is by having many many additional zeros at the back to do precision so for example Ethereum breaks down two units that are one divided by ten with eight one with eighteen zeroes after it

so you have

one Ethereum you actually have one zero zero zero zero zero zero zero zero of the base unit and so you get eighteen decimals of precision you can have one point one one one five two nine six five five five two one one one one area does that make sense so far okay


because you can only do things in whole numbers to represent fractions you have to use whole numbers in a ratio of one point one can be represented


a Levin divided by ten or can be one hundred ten divided by a hundred

or it's cetera bright now to accumulate

between days you have to


those fractions because you can't add the missteps Moser to add fractions if anybody doesn't know this or doesn't recall the way to add fractions is you find the greatest common divisor between the denominators and then you multiply the numerators and you add those and then you use the denominator that's the greatest common divisor most of the time or I have enough of the time there will be no common divisor


between say ninety nine and ninety eight there is no number that divides us two things


actually three might


I thought my head I don't think it does


ninety nine and a hundred and one let's check if you have it as your denominators so now you're multiplying each side by the other one so whatever your numerator was over ninety nine times a hundred and one whatever your numerator is over a hundred and one is multiplied by ninety nine you at those things and then multiply ninety nine times a hundred and one

those numbers grow


very quickly


you and

you would end up in a very unpredictable situation so imagine this were before launch we have no idea what what adoption is going to be with no idea what the claims are gonna be like we have no idea what's taking behavior is going to be like with simulated lots of that but we don't know what any of that's going to be like to do this in the dark is to basically say I don't know how large of numbers on the end up with is fractions from from one day to the next I don't know how fast it will grow and there may come a time when that rolls over it basically becomes too big to to store and if I want this contract to just basically work in perpetuity for fifteen years at a time thirty years at a time or whatever I took a risk I can't take so storing those numbers precisely is a gamble a huge gamble that you're going to basically lose data did you just lose it entirely so maybe you cap precision to maybe instead you basically reduce the total size of the fraction if it gets too big or you cap how precise a fraction you're gonna get well now you have kind of an uncertain and variable amount of error from day to day the original pitch of this was that you can lock up your money and you can get a return to your transmitted by a contract there's no caviar maybe you'll be off by ten percent you know because of precision maybe you lose six percent

or something like you could add a holiday right look into more later ours and hire the precision to be off

yeah exactly and that exact


by reducing each time to keep it within your precision bound you can hit that error condition every day and now you have an accumulation of error so both of those approaches have huge downsides for the promise the commitment of the the product that want to do that and remind the audience gas was will literally a thousand times cheaper to to use at the time of the contract launch to the following summer defy summer

thanks for the answer not now I can finally go to bed easily and I was hi how are you already asked me that I didn't want art Richard heart wanting to acquire an exchange with this delay the launch you have any I'm

I've not I've not heard that floated I know while ago he was saying publicly he wanted to start an exchange and it's probably easier to buy somebody with a license than to start your own I'm I can't imagine that he would delay launch for that I can't imagine it would be very high priority to integrate with but polls chain an existing exchange but I I just kind of unanswerable

let's see we have has there been any discussion about forking unity V. three for Paul six one license expires in a few months

I'm an interesting question but it's an interesting question and interesting I. D. R. because unity three does have some features that unity to does not give ME two is more battle tested and I I think you would want

thanks palm harder with the metric liquidity yeah do I like for you to this

is basically public domain was unique reason not I know the license expires for for copying and stuff and I think somebody else who would want to clone it should definitely do that but

I it's a legit business idea yeah

that's not something I would do that's not something I would do as I would want to build the targeted features that I want I wouldn't necessarily want to just adopt unity three because you get the downsides as well

so so Carl do you think after all this you'll be focusing on it sounds like you want to go towards ramps and bridges that's true

I mean that's what I care about that I think are the better long term bets



okay go ahead I'll get one guy earlier in the chat to give a five dollar superjet one to know about what is the critical issue found in mid may fixed but I want to know what is it one issue it's fun and then there was a just more of the head developer saying Hey we need more more time

yes as I mentioned you pulling threads and you can find some very odd patterns to emerge from that so it's complicated

got you go Jordan is like given we're in the age of outrage marketing I don't know if it's so I don't know how much time you've got guys I wanted to ask you before before we ended if you've gotta go or anything we've been gone for about an hour twenty but doubt when is your what is your prediction that Hey upholstery nor will want trio that everybody wants to know

thank I don't know if it's fair for me to answer legitimate


the last time I was asked I just said tomorrow so also

so you guys you guys heard it here first let's okay live it I you know everybody's gonna be like why did you ask of the post paid what I was gonna ask you know you have to

I have no answer if I if I knew what I tell you

right yeah yeah you're kidding so to answer

your cardboard cutout would jump to the camera strangle secrets

so we want to know do the dems feel neglected from alleged lack of communication but I want to say right now yes Richard only talking to the dentist he's communicating with them

more than

it's also feel neglected so they probably have zero privacy is by watching the twenty fourth of

got a little brother protection issues I just wanna know like does feel bad that look which is returned our calls and the people that happened to and I it feels really bad man looked at the feel bad about that

I feel bad I think that that should feel bad to

yeah just on TV


doesn't know he has not been very publicly communicative but he's always got irons in the fire you know who he is

yeah yeah all right so what it what with there is a question earlier about tornado to cash with you I'm sure you've heard about what's going on there what are your thoughts on all of that being a developer and something you know somebody going to jail for developing code



that's some that's a big problem I think that was the wrong way to go it is so how to answer this


you teach people through your actions as an authority figure how to deal with you so let's say you're a parent and you are particularly abusive one are your kids will learn how to work around you because you've shown what you do and then make you mad and I think the tornado cash thing and with software in general follows that pattern that by coming down hard on expectedly and showing your kind of wall tile because the tornado people actually made all the best efforts to maintain audit ability within the limits of of what they could do with a certain on this blockchain the fact that they could export oops and kind of receipts so to speak to give investigators tools for example like they made some good faith efforts and if you tell everybody that you can come in post hoc despite good faith efforts and come down hard anyway we've shown is that you are not worth working with it's not worth trying to took to guess what your future intentions are it's not worth it it's better to keep yourself safe and keeping yourself safe means being more clandestine being less helpful not building in tools to do it like you know Hey this is my best faith effort I'm not trying to offend anybody you kind of push people are maybe in the short term you can stifle that sort of innovation but in fact you just tip your hand medium to long term it to help people should build stuff in the future to invade you

I think you can look at Ross Albright and Silk Road is another example of that how many more dark web networks websites are there afterwards


that are you that you've never heard of the developers of the founders of those

yeah yes it's it's maybe it's because it was young like it was one of the sort of from pioneers in in the space that it's like I've got to come down hard because there's the name recognition but doing that without new wants it sends a message to future developers and people are not going to stop developing privacy technology people will now just be much more defensive about developing privacy technology

forget just Kenya for I mean isn't there hate hex NATO and Mike and I think it's hilarious that the I think it's hilarious that the day of or the day after that they locked him up you know everybody that was celebrity and had D. N. S. name got dropped for tornado cat is just a Ethereum or whatever inside yeah one is very skilled consequences

yeah and like from the country although there are real world wants consequences not just a meme but it is an entry it's kind of an obvious demonstration like it just doesn't work that way there's no A. C. H. trail or whatever right and I can just send money to anyone

I want to


yeah would you ever consider leaving the United States well as a developer I

thought that's a good question I'm I'm not good at planning


just you know big life changes like that yes so even if I considered it that's not the same as making a plan

yeah are we got we got a good question right here can we get some real info going very boring this guy wants law it's gonna really want to talk about the Dallas Cowboys real quick well this is this is Louis is Charles

this is

not a or if you've ever seen chat it's a wild well thank god never did not you guys lose it I it was just the the staff at the very bottom line what happens if this market contracts on it okay we have we probably nothing yeah we read this we already did this we are in the

office of the contracts themselves as the client optimization that you may not be able to use common websites to search historical data things like either scanned because it is their business model


not adopt that change because it won't it won't work why would you pay anyone a million dollars to support your chain if they can't look back in the past

right yeah well I think that's it I'm not conquer to copy any more questions or I want to give too much and I know you got lots of stuff to do your posting you know we're taking away from posting right now god yeah yeah where the where the blame for the delay apologize sorry for the delay everybody I told my daughter I would show this I'm sorry she keeps making stuff


hex who was your so it is so you are you're you're excited you're excited for Paul Shane Paul thanks bridges are hex butyrate is a word that is built in Brasil hi yeah

sorry I didn't hear the question

are you just excited for hexis future can be continuing feature you know the the the further in on

such a hard question because again like at the time


was to put it down for years at a time


right but the best that we have a community that the

this is products so

sad a little bit to be honest with their people feel kind of compelled to hustle right like this is supposed to be freeing in a radius of people's time in people's attention and at least for some subset of people it didn't do that it may have even pulled the man to a world where you're always looking

for an angle

how did you hear this well

I think a lot of piano I want to know you know how can they help the cause and how can they


beat up the progress or whatever which is in good faith but often executive not not ideally sometimes

I am looking forward to it I think everyone is learning and growing kind of together because if you're new to the space you have a lot to learn and unfortunately a lot of disappointment they're gonna run into but yeah I would say the the arc of the universe is long but bands in the right direction

that's like the kiss to all these extra points just different games to play keep it keep me around


but sure

what do you think about all the good ones

what do you think they actually points like you know that our everybody's bill then you come into the office you're not on Twitter and stuff right you're not

that's right yeah I deleted all that

yeah you're you're not right I once for a while

and answering questions and stuff but it's just an attention sock I I'm particularly susceptible to getting my attention sucked in such as Twitter all that stuff the fundamentally I think that people even acting in good faith are targeting the wrong group of people like it's all preaching to the choir kinds of stuff and that's just the wrong move yeah I I think you may trick yourself into thinking you're that's what it is one you're hitting the same people that already agree with you two you can create the illusion of success because the people who already agree with you already know about your thing and it can you know do something about it I'm three it's just it's much better to grow a broad base of awareness and support them to go deep on a very small slice that already supports you


so again I'm sure a lot of them are in good faith right I just think they're they're kind of aiming in the wrong direction

yeah interesting I said that about some whether they think that they're gonna hot pump Holstein by just dropping air dropping hex agains the coin and it's like you would want to air drop all that the area instead of just the hexagon mash yeah maximum so well thank you Kyle for comment thank you Sir coming next your your your genius yeah we have to watch this I just come for the compliments no one

if you because

as I made yeah I got company in Denver Colorado and the beautiful Hexcel all the same day Ali you're not like you just said you're not on Twitter anything so nobody can find DO and less you know because usually I tell people work and people find you but it looks like you know we had a

Jasen proto tripe on telegram

yeah they're young scrapper prototype on that telegram if you guys are asking some questions thank you guys everybody for coming in thank you for all the US subs and donations so that's it we'll see you guys here tomorrow and others for coming creek a copy as well so for sure yes to

see how it