Socialized Losses. Privatized Gains. Virtual Roulette Wheels - Transcripts

August 26, 2022

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Video: for brevity.


hey everybody, how's it going? I hope you're all doing well out there.

Good to have you back man. So you're moving away moving away from without having the Bitcoin debate you wanted to give a few examples of defi and then if you can also give an overview again because we had a lot of people joined in the last you know 2030 minutes after we define D 51 point oh versus 2.0 versus what everyone's talking about which is D 53 point oh you can also define that that would be great.

I think you guys are wasting a lot of time naming things instead of understanding the things that you're eating a lot of overhead to just assign things you're going to argue about later. So Cryptocurrency was invented to remove counter party risk, you know Satoshi in the white paper rather in the genesis block quotes that the banks are bailing being bailed out by the government again. And so you have socialized losses but privatized gains. And so Bitcoin's birth was to get rid of the counter party risk. That is somebody just printing money forever making yours worth nothing. And so these are the world's most expensive. Slowest databases. They're garbage, they have no throughput their buggy you have to check to see whether your transaction got orphaned off or forked off or didn't get put through because the block was full or you know there's all types of horror like so we put up with that horror because we have to in order to have censorship resistance. And so the only thing any Blockchain is useful for the censorship resistance period. If your project doesn't need censorship resistance go running on Aws like everyone else does amazon is 50% of all the commerce in the United States and the internet and they don't use Blockchain at all, they'll sell it to you but they don't use it and they don't need it, they don't want it because they don't have censorship problems. So you know that that idea that concept basically just eliminates like the majority of projects in crypto right there just like they're just basically virtual gambling their virtual roulette wheels but instead of having numbers on the roulette wheel you have ticker symbols for coins. So if it is the case that the only thing that block chains are good for the censorship resistance and that they only exist for one useful purpose which is to remove counter party risk, then I will list you some places where they successfully perform that function in ways that we've never seen before.

So let's take a coin base. Coin base got sued by the government because some of its employees were front running listings. They knew the listings are gonna occur about the tokens. Then the listings would happen and then they dumped the tokens and make a lot of money. Well uh you don't have that problem on unit swab because there's no central unit swap data base of what's going to be listed next. And so there's no insiders that get to front run that information. There's also no team of people at uni swap that decides whether you get to be listed or not. And I can assure you there is a team of lawyers that sit a coin base to decide whether you get to get listed or not. And that is the opposite of what Cryptocurrency was invented because that is a middleman that is someone's d who you have to suck in order to participate in the market and markets work better when there's less friction, less overhead, less middlemen, less counter party risk. And so what defi n Cryptocurrency did was gave people the miracle of being able to control their own keys, control their own finance, never have to beg someone else for your money and they threw it right in the garbage, they gave their keys to other people and then they become one of the headlines. So if you go on my twitter and you go back years ago, you know 34 years ago you're gonna see me saying you don't have to be one of the headlines, stop giving other people your coins. Stop giving your money to other people that say they're gonna give you yield.

You're gonna be one of these headlines when they get exploited or run away with all the money but people don't listen. And so they lose all their money. So let me give you some examples of things which do not have admin keys do not have counter party risk, they do have smart contract risk. So you need to make sure that the smart contract operates well as well audited, that's the best you can do. As far as software goes. You know, one of the funny things I hear in cryptocurrencies people say and it's a nice sound bite. They use it myself. What do you trust more men or Math? And that one sounds better than like what do you trust? More men are code because anyone has ever actually done software development like I don't know about that code, A little harder to trust. Math's a little bit easier to trust. Uh code is a lot harder to trust, which is why you see so many people with hacked and destroyed projects.

So here's some specific instances of miraculous, glorious, decentralized finance really killing it in the real world you may have heard of, you know, swap. I made it popular on my back, I promoted more than their founder did. So Hayden Adams versus me, I did a lot more to promote, you know, swap than he did. And my project text which is the world's first time deposit another defeat thing which also has no admin keys and had flawless operation for 1000 days. It made you popular with a majority of volume and um liquidity on that platform for a month or two in the very beginning. So

why wouldn't you just quickly about you, wouldn't you be concerned? You know, it's decentralized, there are no regulators. So while there's insider trading on coin base and other counter party risk regulators, you know, do a better job than a decentralized protocol, avoiding most scams do launch on the decks

like, okay, first of all, okay, the government sucks at everything that it does. If you look around your house right now, everyone listening, look around your house and point to things that you like and then see whether they were created by governments or companies created by companies. They're created by companies every time. I mean I agree that the government can go way out of bounds, but they do

things like, you know, pave roads, I mean the government

doesn't create the

asphalt, but somebody's

got to approve

lying down. Are you kidding

right now? Surely you're kidding? I said look around your room and point to stuff that the government made and you're like, you literally, you're like, no, I'm gonna go outside to the road like bro, what do you think before the US, like you think they didn't have roads before the government did have a

window. I looked out of it. I'm sorry, I didn't

understand the question,

but Richard if you look at, but if you go to countries that have government imperfect governments. There obviously are much worse, more powerful government.

The stuff that you guys are saying is so unbelievably stupid. It's hurting me and I'm going to prove to you how stupid what you're saying is. It's abysmally stupid. Okay.


thesis. Your thesis is that government good? Private business bad. So let's extend that.

Okay, you

go to the mall and the only thing is allowed for sale. The government says consult be allowed for sale. Are you crazy? That's a terrible idea. I mean, they tried that in Communist Russia. Richard. That's a strawman argument. The argument here by Peter, even though I think it could be conveyed by there is that there are public goods which governments can fulfill. I'm a libertarian like you and I do agree. What are you talking about? No one's talking about public goods. They're trying to put the government in control of what you can buy on the internet, in this case, magical tokens.

That's the thesis. Look, when you ask your question about what around you? It's produced by the government that you like. I think that's what Peter was answering that clarification. It was a bit of a simplification on my

part. But perhaps you can

refine your question. I heard

the question to be look

around. I forgive me for asking what I thought was a rhetorical question. I will just make the statement myself. No one needs to answer all the good stuff that you like in your life. The things that you put on your body, the cars that you drive, the food that you eat, the house that you stay in was created by a company. All of it every good thing in your life except for the street lights, I guess he's for Halloween dressing up like a like a light post or something. Every single thing in your life that's good was created by a company Period. And when you when you allow the government to decide what people are allowed to buy or not, you completely destroy capitalism 100%. And what you replace it with is called communism literally like you guys are literally arguing for communism instead of free market,

how would you like

me saying? You know what is good and remove counter party risk? And now I have to

defend capitalism. My question to you is would you trust a company based in the U. S. Or based in let's say


an african country or Russian?

You guys are screwing this up right now. Okay. You asked me good examples of decentralized finance actually making a difference in the world. I told you, you know, swap. And you started getting me into capitalism versus communism, nope, I'm not falling for it. The question is now lets you do margin trading now. Okay, you can take on leverage now and a decentralized exchange and if they decide to run away with the money, you can go write your own front end, try and get your money back out before the liquidation gets you. That's still better than what you get with these centralized exchanges. Okay If you if you decide to Jack people for their money, you still have uh what do you call it tornado cash tether decided they weren't going to seize the funds from tornado cash us Dc. Decided they weren't going to blacklist the funds from tornado cash. You still have tornado cash. I feel sorry for the hackers that hacked on the Bitcoin side because they got caught for their basically zero knowledge proofs are superior to ring signatures.

And so currently the state of the art and anonymity and privacy is still tornado cash, right? So tornado cash is awesome, decentralized finance tool. Unit swap is an awesome decentralized finance tool, they both have no admin keys. They both have decentralized front ends and I. P. F. S. They're both awesome as hell. I suggest everyone use them. Except I'm not sure about tornado cash now. Like if it's on the sanctions list, you should be very careful about that. Um and these things work awesome today and not to show my own project but my things been working perfect for 1000 days and directly lets you mint yield and it's still up to 50 experts.

Bitcoin 70 experts fear. Um I don't know what you want and 1000 experts. The dollar.

So the point I was making about UNICEF and let me know if you disagree, There are still imperfections and I'm a supporter of defi just I'm on the same side as you. But I'm trying to play Devil's Advocate isn't their flaws and defy that are still being worked on as a concept. That makes sense. But again, I don't know

what does that have to do with technology. People are people are performing scams with paper and pen and cars and electricity to like in what planet do you start removing technologies from people because criminals use them criminals speak language to let's get rid of language. It's the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. Technology is good for humanity as long as the humans are by and large, good. If the humans are by and large, bad then you can make the argument that technology is bad. But in fact the majority of humans are good people trying to do good things and therefore technology helps all of these people. And when you try and start crippling the criminals by crippling the technology, you do much greater harm preemptively to all the people. Look at it this way. What's the what's the Treasuries Department like job? Why are they censoring the North korean people? Because they're trying to get them to stop scamming hey, stop scamming. North Koreans stop robbing people.

Stop stop doing malware attacks or whatever you're doing to try and generate revenue. And so what did they do? They preemptively screwed everyone else they did worse to everyone else than the north Koreans did. They caused more harm than the north Koreans did by attacking a tool that every honest business needs to actually use every honest business needs to hide the prices that pays its suppliers from its customers. It needs to hide the values it pays its employees from its other employees. It needs to hide its customer list. You cannot do any of those things without mixing period fucking period. Sorry for cursing. So

so you

need mixing. You need mixing for capitalism. You need um you know swap for capitalism. You need people to be able to list things for sale with no counter party risk with no middlemen. You don't have to beg coin base to list you. Like it's it's such amazing innovation is working so well. I don't know how it's not obvious like this is I would say that you know swap might be a more important invention that. Bitcoin literally because one just attempted to do currency. You know, it's amazing. It's


Well okay. No it's important. It's important if more people accepted Manero then it would be a great innovation because privacy is a human right? It's a human right period. But people don't treat it like such. It's disgusting. So

My last question to you. Richard just and the D5 segment because it started about an hour and a half ago.

Okay look let me give you some more stable coins necessary for business. We have them in the five dye works. It's defy now I wish it wasn't backed by so much U. S. D. C. But hey you know it works right, you wanna get the risk, you don't have to beg coin base to let you send your coins to turn them into to their version of a stable coin which is their counter party risk us dc. Thing they show on your screen that you don't know what's actually backed by at all. But you do know that U. S. D. C.

Is backed by dollars because they are audited. So we have stable defy stable coins, time deposit hex unit swap trading dy dx margin and it's just like it does all the things you wanted, like the vast majority of commerce and the vast majority of finance is not currency, there's only five trillion in printed currency, there's seven trillion in time deposits and there's but loads more trillion in derivatives and like defi is amazing and it works great now and it's been working great for a couple of years now and I don't know how anyone can say anything against it. Look at the size of the order books and the thickness of the order books. I mean you could dump $100 million of ethereum and eat like 1% slippage. Actually I'll give you a number for that since I'm bragging about it, I'll give you a number for how much slippage you get on 100 million ethereum dump EU. 40 seconds and

While you're doing that Richard to end it with this question where do you see defy over the next 24 months or even 12

months, how it just keeps getting better?

Everything. Do you see, do you see the traditional guys start embracing

earlier, everyone was talking about Celsius paying off their loans. That's just more defi so like you could have, you could have got yield on your crypto by sticking in a V. And it kept kept working fine or you could have given it to, to the fake defy the psi phi scum who I have faced down on livestream and then like told him to his face, you know, you're the opposite of white kryptos invented and guess what? One of them went bankrupt and one of them is doing fine. It's so obvious obvious working fine hex is working fine compounds working fine di is working fine. A ton of stable coins are working fine. Unit swaps, working fine. Everything's working awesome. The only thing that sucks is that people launch scams which they do everywhere. There's no shortage of scams across legacy finance and crippling the technology won't solve that. Uh you know like what else, what more do you want? It does?

All the things defy is amazing By the way like my estimate on the 100 million dump was what would be wrong? I don't know either that or it's just not dealing. I mean so like if you dumped a million. Oh I know why I'm sorry I did it backwards, hold on. It's not, it's probably not what would be wrong at all? 100 million you would you would eat a slippage of 2.38%.


amazing by the way, what an amazing

human I am. You could

dump $100 million of ethereum and only get 2.38% slippage, go try that in any other market bro. You know what, go by coin base stock, go by ticker symbol C. O. I. N. And let me know how much slippage you get when you try and dump 100 million of it. Low

peter. Thanks

Mario. You know, I mostly agree. Richard traffic lights aside, I think we're simpatico and almost

everything here, you know,

swap is a massive innovation and it enables

self custody

and people need to learn that shouting about the primacy of centralized exchanges is not

gonna help anybody because

then it's just a whole race to get approval from our overlords. So the idea of self custody and minimally viable communities is not going away. And yeah, there's gonna be shakeouts where the scam artists and the pump and dumps like they come and they go, but eventually they'll find it harder and harder and harder to extract that capital because

people will have a language

where they can understand these things better and recognize a scam coming from a mile away rather than just following in. So defying is here to stay

and we ain't

going nowhere. And the other thing people don't understand is like you know swap token has nothing to do with the swap thing. You know swap has functioned perfectly fine without its duct taped on token because people decide to speculate on the duct taped on thing it has no effect on the underlying thing. You know, swap one worked awesome to works awesome three works awesome and and all these duct taped on tokens you don't need to participate them. They're not, they're not like these things. So the reason I say this because you're talking about like minimum viable community, you don't need a minimum viable community for as long as there's one LP that put a little bit of money and anyone wants to trade against it. That's it. That's all you need to humans or to entities an LP and anyone that wants to trade no minimum viable community needed. You know like I don't want people to confuse defy with the duct taped on tokens. There are very few tokens that actually have any relationship with actual protocol. So for instance like I forgot you know swab because I fork ethereum and our fork of uni swap when it burns the coins. You know that actually makes an economic difference in the protocol.

A lot of these like you know swap you by yourself doesn't affect you make token. It's totally 10 general it has nothing to do with

it. That's a good point. And then the last question I have for you. Richard is the cascading liquid. Actually the example you gave with Celsius having to pay off the loans. Can you explain to the audience how that means before we start with the confessions? Um segment how that technically means the fireworks and see fire doesn't work. And I made that statement. It's a statement that many people don't understand. Can you explain to them why?

Yeah. So I'm pretty much an expert at this. So yes, the right guy in normal systems that have leverage, you have a very fast frequency at which you can check whether someone's collateral is still large enough to cover their position and if the position moves against them, the collateral gets sold and it makes the lender whole so you borrow $100 to buy Bitcoin or let's say ethereum, you borrow $100 to buy ethereum. So now you owe $100 and you and you use your $100 to buy your ethereum but then the price of ethereum goes down. And and now like if your collateral sitting in ethereum now you've got less money. So and defy what you do to make up for the very high latency is you make people over provision. So like so like you can go 100 X leverage on a lot of centralized exchanges but you can only go like maybe three X leverage in a decentralized exchange. Why? Because it takes so long for the system to detect that you now need to be liquidated and it takes so long for someone to liquidate you that they need so much extra time for those things to occur so that you don't create bad debt. So decentralized finance has extremely lower margin, an extremely higher latency but extremely more censorship resistant and less counter party risk. So in a way what you do is if you if you want to like borrow you need to give them more than you're borrowing. But on a centralized platform they'll let you borrow greatly in excess of what you've deposited.

So on a normal centralized platform you could enter in one unit of a thing and borrow 3 to 100 units of the thing. But in a decentralized platform you need to enter like 1.5 X units of the thing to borrow one unit of the things you have to over collateralize. And so when when uh when Celsius was attempting to use these protocols to generate yield they would over collateralize. But then when their positions would move against them now they need to keep putting in more collateral or they get liquidated. And if you get liquidated, you you not only lose the money you have but you also lose the premium that the that exists to incentivize people to liquidate you. So it's like uh when when you liquidate someone you take their position over and so you need to buy their position to the discount to be happy to do that otherwise no one would ever get liquidated. So basically liquidation is just like you owe more money than you have. So we have to sell what you have to try and at least make the people hold that you owe. And so that's what's happening to Celsius now because they weren't over collateralized, they were under collateralized. Now they have debts they can't pay off even if they sell everything they own which is why they're in bankruptcy but their loans and didn't go bankrupt because if they had attempted to enter a state in which they didn't have enough collateral then the liquidators would have went and liquidated their underlying collateral and made everybody whole. So it's a safer system in the legacy system you get over leveraged very easily. But in defi it's extremely hard to get over leveraged because you have they only let you leverage up so little they don't even let you get one X leverage.

Like or I mean it depends on the platform but I think you get the idea I

think you've articulated it really well. So I think everyone, I hope you got some some value from the discussion. You know there wasn't much of a debate even before. Richard joint. I think most speakers that came on with pro defy and I think the last few months have proven that I

can mention one last thing, one last thing I invented this term called just in time security and it's very important to understand if the bad guys, whether they be governments that are evil people that are evil if if people start to attack nodes where they start to attack developers and they start to attack projects, we're not stupid, we just route around the damage. Oh you guys are gonna start kicking doors down for this that or another. Okay. We're just gonna have more doors and they're gonna be in different places. And so just like the government for a long time didn't like file sharing. Eventually they give up like alright file sharing. Is there whatever. That's how it is. And I look at Crypto the same way like we were, it's so insane to me that we're solving the problems that legacy finance has, its on chain, it's obvious it's immutable. The history can't be deleted. You know, you can see who's doing what and when it's 24 hours a day and it's everywhere. It's global and it's like the minimum middlemen.

It's like we solve so many things. Any government worth their salt, any government that was intelligent will be on our side helping us get these things done because we really are making the world a better place. You know like it crypto is here to stay and the things that we're doing one of the few things in the world that's actually making the world better rockets to land themselves, electric cars, Crypto, I can't think of

Anything else that's actually getting better, but we've seen the traditional guys agree with that theme as well. Like we're not seeing the same resistance we saw back in 2017, when it comes to applications like defy, you know, back in 2017, is more um, you know, hating on crypto in general, heading on Blockchain, heading on Bitcoin ethereum. But now we're seeing a lot of big guys embrace the concept of defi not the right way and trying to, you know, take a piece out of it and do it their way, but you're not seeing that same level of resistance as we saw a few years ago

and why should you? Because defy literally solves this Celsius problems, defy literally solves the queen based front running problem defy literally solves the MT Gox problem, like defi solves so many things, it's amazing.

I agree. I think it's well articulated man, Thanks a lot for jumping on. I think the community loves it. Discord goes crazy every time you jump on and you know, if your diamond hand the wrong project thinking it's the right project, you get fucked um, when the market corrects 95 99% but people that made most of their money including Bitcoin, you know, Richard in the early days diamond handed, correct me if I'm wrong. Richard, you diamond handed Bitcoin in the early days. Um, and you know, got pretty sexy returns there. So I would love you that since you're on the show. Richard before we continue with the mexican fashion. What's your advice to anyone? You know, looking at, should you look at selling when things are frothy or just diamond hand, find the right project and forget about timing the market.

I think I think the most successful tactic for profiting and speculation is to hold because timing is extremely hard. I mean I called the top of the day almost no one can do that and I did it two cycles and it's like nearly miraculous, like no one else can do it. So it, but, but how many people could have held from like earlier? Like look, you've got an asset, like like let's take a theory. Um, in the covid dip that went down to 88 then I went to 5000. Any idiot could have held for any period of time there and we never went back to 88 lowest we got over the last like two years is 8 80. So even a complete idiot that the bottom is up 10x. Even if they sold the next bottom right? Not not

that product market fit

product market fit. So if you have something that resembles a game, people will tend to get bored of games. That's part of the reason that I'm not bullish on FTS, you can like, there's a bunch of reasons but that's one of them is that you know things that are game like people will stop playing but things that are more financial like and and have a more boring sales pitch and aren't rube Goldberg machines tend to have more longevity. So if you if you want a couple of technical ways to predict how much longevity thing will have, there's something called the lindy effect which is the longer something has been used, the longer it is likely to continue to be used. That's one way. So something like that would tell you that Bitcoin is likely to be around for a very long time. The problem with that particular measurement is that it doesn't tell you at what price point? So you can still find cassette tapes if you want but they're not a growth industry nor R. C. D. S. Nor our records nor nor our bards coming and playing in person for you.

So the way that I like to know that what I've got is the right thing is product market fit? Are you on ramping new users? Is it a durable walled garden? Is there a first mover advantage? Is it a durable first mover advantage is how's the logo? How's the community or people getting tattoos of it? Is there something that locks them in for a very long time. So you know and hex there's a guy that's got a tattoo of my name over my logo on his chest. I tried to follow him once on twitter, he didn't like it had to follow. Um So you know when you've got people tattooing their body and locked up for 15 years, average state clinton texas seven years these people are not going to defect. So what happens is as soon as someone sells their Bitcoin, all they say is evil things about it. As soon as someone sells their bag of anything they want to buy back lower or just not feel bad ever missing gains again and they just savagely crap talk the thing Elon musk secretly bought Bitcoin pumped.

It said you could buy cars with it. Then he secretly dumped it quote testing the liquidity and then said oh this this is bad for the environment, we're not gonna let you use it for cars anymore. And so he pumped bought it pumped it, dumped it and then trash talked it and savaged it afterwards. But didn't even need to do that. You're telling me the rocket scientists didn't know use electricity. I don't believe that at all. The computer science major knows that it used electricity. He's lying. So you know and like I just bought one of his model X. Plans for like 100 50 grand so I'm still willing to buy his cars even though he's shady and crypto.

I've got a quick question you said you're against lefties. I won't give you three N. F. T. S. Tell me if the utility makes sense or not. So one of them is Jihad is doing an N. F. T. Now I know you you might say you don't need an N. F. T.

For this. You could just use a centralized system. But would you you know, doesn't harm to use an N. F. T. For something like giving you access to like business class at a discount.

This so this particular thing, I am not a tax advisor and accountant and so I'm weary of giving this type of advice but if somehow you found a mechanism by which things you may normally be taxed or taxed in a different way, then you know that's on you right? Imagine imagine a world where no longer you purchase anything you just by the N. F. T. For it. It's like, hey you know what, I was going to buy this car and pay sales tax on it. But instead I bought the car FM 80 and just let me drive it all the time and there's no tax, you know, it's

like and I think the tax tax regulations will catch on but from a utility perspective, you know, I got three exams, funny enough they're all three sponsors but like you might say you don't need a Blockchain, you don't need to decentralize it. But like this one is a is a museum, it's a it's a real museum in the metaverse now experiencing a museum without having to travel to a country. That's what's the matter versus the are in that museum could represent an N. F. T. Showing a digital representation of the real thing. Would that utility makes sense for an F. T. That's my second example.

So like when I'm on porn hub and I actually in a virtual museum because I

mean it looks pretty

good in there like what I like what I'm seeing. I mean like it's just you're just renaming you just basically you just have a website with pictures on it but now you renamed it and it's now the metaverse you're like no bro it's a website with pictures on it. You're just renaming. It's silly. So like I mean you might make money with any of these businesses but like I think the idea of like you just rename my website, it's a silly idea.

Fair point charlie. I'll give you the mic back the next confession man. Sorry we digressed a bit. We do that a lot. When Richard

we do all three. I only heard two. Wasn't there three? Yeah

the third one and I'll give you that one and then we'll go to charlie's next confession because I know you have to jump off the last one is is I think that one you I think last time you agreed I think it was you that agreed that made sense and it's one of my favorite people experiencing the metaverse. Obviously you wear you wear a lot of beautiful clothes, beautiful brands to signal a certain identity. And you've talked about it as well wearing that same thing in the metaverse, would you agree that makes sense? So

we've already seen, we've already seen that successful with gun skins and counterstrike. We've seen it successful with hats and Team

fortress two.

I mean we know that people will over pay to signify, I mean I got $1 million dollars of Bogart jury so like you know people people will do that and if you can if you can do it digitally it's there's actually less negative externalities. Although I think it reduces the durability of the walled garden because like you know so like I've gotta I've gotta Jacob and co Casino Watch, it's like 650 K. And there's only 88 of them and then they're like well we're going to release a version that's black, we're gonna release release a version with this other little change and then they like dilute the market by releasing these little special edition ones. Well it's like bro that's coming out of my pocket like every time you guys release another one of these things you're competing with me if I ever want to sell it. And so like the thing that I worry about in these digital products is that the thing that makes them have less negative externalities is also the thing that makes them so they don't have a good walled garden.

Brandon. Brandon is not that big of a world garden manufacturing easier than digital t shirt, but still it's well

You'd think that, but I paid, I paid $900 for you know, t shirts rather often and I wouldn't buy them if they were $9, which is probably what they cost to make. It's like there's something magic that goes into these brands.

Exactly. Exactly, Exactly. So richard, if you want to stay right after the confessions are going to the pictures, you got two pictures today and I think two of the projects I mentioned will be pitching. So it'll be your first time coming on, it's like a shark tank like pitch and and I think it'll be good to have you there also, I'll dm you the discord link discord is spamming us to try to get you on there. Um So if you want to peep in, I think they'll have

you guys noticed that like every time I joined runs away, it's really weird.

I try not to bring it up and you know, I keep mining people time and time again, Crypto is a trading in general is a zero sum game, you know, in some ways, life is almost like a zero sum game, it's not, but in some ways it is um so for every dollar you make someone else lost it, it's just important to keep that in mind and while everyone, you know flaunts their wins throughout every bull run and disappears in the bear run, people are losing money on the other side and confession. And that's why I want that segment, the confession segment in every show to remind everyone that while we're talking, you know, Richard talks about his successes. Peter will talk about his successes. I might mention mine and every Panelist will talk about some successes they've had for every dollar any of us made someone else lost it. Now some could afford to lose it. So

as a thought leader, I like to pride myself on things that I popularized and discovered before others. And so one trading is net negative, not not net zero because there's a lot of overhead, a lot of guys staring at screens, blowing their whole lives, destroying their health, destroying their families and enriching exchanges. And then those exchanges use those money that money that they took from the harmed people to go on ramp new people to harm. So it's, it's massively net negative. And then they also the airwaves with advertising as well. So it's not at

this point. That's a good point. Just one thing I want to ask you about, what about the positive of, you know, the efficient allocation of capital, which is what it's meant to do.

No, no, it doesn't know that you're not smart enough to make good decisions to actually perform that function well, you don't know any of the underlying things that would actually cause that more efficient thing to work out. You're you're the person that does the opposite and only by the things that you just heard about and amplifies the reflectivity of the volatility up time, which is why people buy the things near the top because that's the only time they could because that's when they heard about them. You didn't hear about them when they're at the bottom. So so the people that would help make these things less volatile and get the prices to be more accurate long term or the exact opposite and behavior of people that buy tops and bottoms, which is the majority of retail retail wants to buy tops and bottoms they prefer it. So now that's so the first lesson is that these are not zero, their net negative. The second lesson is everything's paper gains and your wins are not someone else's losses. Unless you're trading. If you're actually just speculating you can all win together. So when everyone moved to America and left europe, everyone one Europeans got more space, Europeans got more uh you know easier to pass laws because less conflict the americans won be utilized unused space. You know like everybody one. So the same thing happens when you create a new superior economic system. So when everyone switches from the totally sucks totally goes to zero, worst interest rates possible, worst counter party risk possible.

U. S. Dollar by the way, the rest of the currencies are even worse. The euro is down 33% versus the dollar over 15 years. And so if you didn't like the dollar sucking boy, you'd hate to be in the euro. So when if you saw the houses at once the price goes to zero, so the gold at once, the price goes to zero. So the stocks at once they go to zero. And since you live in a world where everything goes to zero, if everyone sells it, once the game that you're playing is what goes up the highest, the fastest and what has the least likelihood of going to zero and staying. And so you know. Bitcoin dropped 75%. The theorem dropped 85%. Tax dropped 95% when they bounce which one is gonna go up the highest.

So with this the position is, it's like insurance when you when you give money to insurance company, everyone else gives money to insurance company, you're creating a giant pool of capital that if any person has a problem, they can draw down against it. But as long as you did the measurements, right? And people in general don't have accidents at the rate that they're putting in what you end up with is a giant pool of money that gets larger and larger and larger, which helps make up through the accidents, people might have and you can kind of look at a successful Cryptocurrency in a similar manner. You've got people that are working jobs, they do savings, their savings stack gets larger over time, they save and save and save and save that stakes larger and larger and larger. The price of the thing goes up and up and up. And as long as no individual participant draws it down too hard, everyone gets to be golden forever. So, I mean I buying Bitcoin at 50 cents now. It's 22 grand. All right, well that's a 44,000 X. Okay, So who's money that I take or jack or steal or whatever, You know, And it's like it's it doesn't work that way because we're all it's all paper games. So the real estates paper games, your stocks are paper gains and your Kryptos paper games and really the game that all of us are playing is is everyone gonna sell it once. No.

Okay. And so what runs up the highest Okay, crypto and then so stocks dropped, 30 crypto drops, you know, 85 fine. But we're up. You know, that's how we went up 690 million% in Bitcoin is by being more volatile volatility is the price you pay for the world's best performing asset. So,

so in terms of the argument, the argument of net negative. So would you say trading. So I'm not a trader, I never trade and I'm a ship trader. Okay. Exactly, investing. So VC like investing obviously not all of it will be not net positive, but you know it is meant to be,

well, no,


VCS 90% of their players lose money. 10% has to do better than a 10x for them to win. So basically you're one winner as a VC has to do 100 X for you to make a 10 X. Because you've got to make up the other nine out of 10, losing. So if you have 100

X, well

if you if you get 100 X on one and you have nine out of 10 lose, then your net is that you're up 10 X total after accounting for the losers and the winners. So like it's as efficient as we found. So if we talk about mad gains, the maddest of gains is Cryptocurrency. And look, I'm not showing my back, like I'm very minimally showing my bags, my thing went up a million percent in two years, a million percent before staking that's real numbers. Real numbers. You can, if you sold a million dollars right now you need 2% slippage run numbers. So it's like I think 2.3. So but my point is you should net negative there. The thought leader thing, the thing that I discovered that no one else will tell you about is that all of the gains are paper gains, All of your yield at the bank is inflation yields. All of your yields a Bitcoin miners inflating the Bitcoin supply. All of your yield is an ethereum miners inflating the ethereum supply and you know all of your yield staking hacks is from inflating the heck supply. And so since they're all paper gains then which one runs up the most and is least likely to have everything draw down at once when you might need to sell.

And and then like the breakthrough the understanding is that we can all win together. You don't have to because we all are happy with our paper gains and because we're happy to keep adding to them like we do for our savings across our lifetime. If you're a good smart human being you're saving stack grows over your lifetime. It isn't smaller and so therefore we can all get rich together. It's possible. It's not net negative charlie

had jumping then. Yeah sorry I wasn't going to jump in. I was just going to slip off actually. I just wanted to run but thanks for having me and yeah I appreciate the rest of the conversation. We're going we're going to the pictures now I think is that I like the negative. So I've always talked about the zero sum game but I think the argument that Richard made about being negative in some cases positive and others it is an efficient allocation of capital but most trading is negative. So I agree there um is a good argument that I'm making future shows. Um Kay Kay I know we've got two pictures to go before wrapping up the show man. Let's kick it off and we do have Richard and Tony both on the panel for this time around. So I think it'll be an interesting, interesting segment. You there KK funk. He dropped off.

How are you guys? Hey, thanks for having us here today. Can you hear me okay?


so cool. So you got you got you got Richard? I'm not sure if you guys know Richard been in the space for. Okay, cool cake is here, but you guys not only Tony who is usually on the panel for pictures, but you got Richard as well. Um So I think, you know, there's a pro and a con. The pro is that you're going to get a pretty big audience. Richard's audience here as well. And one of the biggest guys in the space listening to your pitch. The con is, you know, he's pretty direct if he doesn't like something. Um but yeah, okay, I'll let you kick it off since you're back man and we'll look at the hard pitch. I'm right here.

Yeah, is gonna be part of the

Okay. All right, okay. So


uh thanks for having us here today


You pick it up. Hold on guys, prepare the time. Okay, I guess you got 90 seconds minutes and a half

Time and 90 seconds

uh Mic is all yours.


So we're headed here to talk about our hefty collection today so

that the hot air bases

the first airline to step into the space in the space of web T. With real world utility, especially in N. F. T. S. So our supply is limited at 2003 N. F. T. S. And our artwork is designed around our 787 Boeing three D. Models, you know featuring the art of Manchester City and the Formula one abu Dhabi grand prix. So we

really take pride

in sort of building utility at the core of the collection. And to emphasize more

on that when

you purchase the N. F. D. You instantly get silver status on. This means that you get access to a business class lounge, priority check in extra baggage. And to be honest you don't even need to fly at the hard to gain and spend these miles and you can do it on you know, american airlines, JetBlue, Lufthansa,

Canada and

tens of other airlines. So we're currently about 80% sold out and only 400 N. F. T. S. And the supplier remaining. And we'll be closing the sale in about a few hours. I think the host will soon pinar tweet to the mint link. So just make

Sure to grab you know, one

of the last few days


So um you know after the close of the sale we want to focus on building one of the first decentralized governance systems by a brand. So our holders are 01 FD holders get to propose extra books that they want. It could be

you know

potential limitless, it could be anywhere from first class friday boarding or

guaranteed you know

inaugural flight tickets and

it could be quite literally anything

and sort of the more N ftse purchase the more

timer is

up guys, Time is up here. K. K. Your your your alarm is not as loud as it usually is. Alright guys. So so essentially just one question before we kick it off with Tony Richard, what is this in one sentence? What is the utility of the N. F. T. Just one sentence. Yes. So it gives you the sort of digital membership past that you can trade and it gives you the parks such as you know like that.

So I I travel on an almost weekly basis. I'm an Emirates guy because I'm in Dubai. So the utility makes sense. I think I think the question that Tony Richard other than regulation will be you know why a Blockchain, but maybe that's where the hype is Tony. Do you want to kick it off? And obviously Richard, you can argue anytime with any questions.

My question is actually Richard, I think you're probably going to ask the exact same

question on a

tax level. How do you guys account for that? I'm gonna avoid that. It's time to crypto I want to ask a question that lame but yeah I hear you I mean like it like so I googled it like it's hot. Uh If I'm even saying it right it's lounge access is 25 to 75 bucks a visit. Apparently if you go to like the most expensive one I found like it's 200 bucks or 125 or something, it's just like if you have found a way to arbitrage lounge access, fine I'm okay with that you know but I'm feeling what's more likely is that you're just going to exit scam and not actually be able to fulfill the thing that you need to because if you're selling the N. F. T. Once but then you've got lifetime costs from the, did everyone just commuted? Where? Yeah

it looks like everybody got


I think Mario just uh you know you know I'm not pressing it glitches by yourself but from a taxation perspective, have you guys considered that Richard, we're trying to bring you up, twitter is just itching but go ahead guys.

Sorry did you say from a tax perspective? Yeah

from a tax perspective and then sticking to so Richard made another concern like I know you guys are you know it isn't officially backed by, we verified this because they tweeted it from their account, verified it with them so I'm not too worried. Richard's point about utility and being an exit scam you know they've got too much to lose reputation li when it's yeah, I mean when it comes to the

reputation, it's

not just the lounge access that

we're actually providing.

Like I know that you have the N. F. T. Account who's pitching, they didn't get to talk about

the N. F. T. T. And what I've got on the

road map. So

you know,

I know that the silver tier status is it is good utility but it might not be something that's long term and something that may be worth the money. What's really worth the money and what's worth the N. F. T. Is the N. F. T.

T. That we're making

after this and it's a decentralized government system. I think it's one of the first ones

by a brand.

And it means that everybody who holds an N. F. T. Will actually be able to propose things to Etihad that they want within the N. F. T. T. S. So say they want an extra benefit within the club, they want something extra that they want they want when flying hard, they can propose that to us. And then all the N. F. T.

Holders will use the N. F. T. As a voting right to then


collectively and say yes or

no to that benefit

overall. Use the N. F. T. As a way to vote for utility.

Can, can I say that like an N. F. T. Actually being associated to a real company is statistically improbable beyond all belief. Like extremely rare if it is the case that this is the first time I have no

with company

allowing access to stuff by using LFTs. That seems just wonderful. You know, like go ahead. You already use a digital system to allow people to access your thing or not and now you're just slapping a jpeg on it. I don't see the problem with it.

Yeah. I mean it's it's more the fact that it's, you know, it correlates to the community a lot better. So if somebody say for example, Eddie had was to make a normal loyalty system, what they would be doing is they'd be selecting a focus group of people to actually sort of decide on what the utilities will be within the separate tiers. Now, what we can actually do is we can get the people who would

actually be flying

Etihad and actually use the N. F. T. And be flying with Etihad all the time to essentially get them to vote instead of using a focus group. You know what I


Yeah, I think they actually honest. Yeah. And and look most N. F. T. Projects launch pictures and then try to build up utility on top of them. Um In this case, you know, you're you're trying to have a reason for having an N. F. T. Which is you know allowing voting rights, which is like, you know, step in the right direction and at least you're launching with the utility and maybe adding pictures afterwards. You know, I've seen projects launched with the utility with a purpose a you get the N. F.

T. To have access to X. Y. Z. To assess Softwares, whatever it is. And then the pictures are just a representation of if you want to add an identity to it. So for me, I think it's a like when I looked at just F. Y. I I'm gonna give you a bit of critical feedback and I'm gonna be honest, I think you're underrated as a project for this particular reason, your twitter, the link to the website, the website etcetera. Our team almost rejected you guys coming on just cause they're married doesn't look like it's backed by Etihad looks like a scam. So just in a from a presentation perspective, I think it's not doing you guys enough justice. Not enough press around it because you're, you know, you're above most other N.

F. T. S. That we've seen or that, you know, paying us to come on the show. So that's a, you know, it's a plus. Richard also made the point that hey, why not have an N. F. T. At least, you know, there's a reason to have it. Um And Richard is just so, you know, guys, he's generally very critical of N. F. T.

S. And he was part of the

debate. This is this is the closest you'll ever see me

like that. Yeah. To be honest, to be honest, like Richard, the the organizer of the show is like Mario, like you sure you put Richard on on the panel like you know what's gonna happen to the project? I'm not gonna be too happy, but I reply to to to Romeo, like I think it's gonna go well because I think it's gonna because we've had this discussion before, so you know, I'm playing with fire, but I think Richard, you you

probably, I mean look man, if you if you have a nightclub and you're just like yo if you have this you can come in, it seems legit, you

know, okay,

you know that if you got extra spots in your little place where people sit down on the airport and you want to, you know, you could give them to people wear pink shirts, you can give people that have the thing that you want. Like I think, I

think the thing with the with the N. F. T tear is say we propose a benefit to somebody that there's, it goes outside the normal traditional loyalty system groups. So say for example, what we think of doing in the future is actually adding sponsorship efforts of hard into the tear. So it doesn't constrain within the normal Etihad airways experience, we can actually then add on, say for example something to do with Manchester City and offer to do with them or we can go to the W grand prix and add offers to do with them as well. And it really expands the possibilities that you can do within the loyalty program. And it makes it a lot more seamless, seamless as well.

I think every I think everyone would be totally cool with all of these kind of projects if people just didn't overpay for the stuff. I think the biggest problem is not the projects. I think it's the speculators that film with them usually,

which are pretty pretty dead now, like the N. F. T. Volume collapse. And we're seeing like the when you have real utility and utility that can be quantified then prices relate to that utility. But when you have just promises and a picture which again I'm not against. It's just much harder to price. That's where speculators coming. Like it's hard to speculate with this access card because you can see the value, can see what you can go on the website, see what the price is. But it's much harder to value much harder to value a picture with grandiose promises which again I don't want to shoot on them but I just have concerns,

I agree with you 100%. And and

another thing to point out is the

fact that you know, we're not we aren't

On that sort of hype trend and really we don't believe in it either. We take 0% royalties for that exact reason. We're not wanting people to flip it and trade

it for that reason.

We want a trustworthy base of people who want to stay with the heart and believe in the community and it just seems so much better to us. Sorry I like I should introduce myself here I'm argued are keeping the company running it for Eddie

hard the collection. So yeah the only thing I might mention is I wouldn't be surprised if one day these N. F. T. S. Did lose their rights. Just like people that bought online movies. They bought movies from like play station. They just canceled all your movies. They don't even care if they're like you know the movies you buy. You can't watch them anymore. It's over.

Good point. Good point with those centralized companies. Remember when I think I can't remember which airlines it was richard they to raise money decades ago. They created a unlimited access to first class for one fee of like 203 100 K. And then I don't know if you've heard the story. I read the story and then people bought it abused the funk out of it and it's unlimited forever. But they were desperate for money and people are still using it today. And the airline



Yeah I read the story about the guy that abused it and he should have had it terminated like he was he was being unfair to the company. Truthfully. Um And the other thing I would say is like in general companies really don't care what you have to say at all and usually the customer's suggestions suck. So like I wouldn't I wouldn't put too much faith in them really carrying a like you either have this N. F. T. Or you don't, you're probably going to get treated the same as the normal comments box if they even have a comments box anymore. You know, used to be businesses with a little box, you can put suggestions. I haven't seen one of those in a long time.

I think actually to better answer your questions if we have time, sorry to say Simon should be here from

Etihad, the Head of

Marketing for global head of marketing 30 hard if

you have any more questions for

him. I don't know is he actually is he actually Simon there? Yeah, he should be requesting to speak if he's

not ready.

No, I can't see if I see. It would be good to get, I want to ask him a question like what does the board think of this? But we'll go to the next pitch. I think it's a great pitch guys are, the pitch was actually pretty mediocre, but the project is pretty cool. Um I would have actually asked you guys to give us some N. F. T. S to come on, but I'm an Emirates guy. Almost never fly because I'm in Dubai and abu Dhabi. But yeah, like good luck guys and it was a good pitch, so we've just put a poll up for everyone in the audience. This is the first of two pitches. Check the poll and vote whether you like the project or not.

Fuck 89% love it. Which is well above the threshold to be good, which is 80%. So congrats guys. Um everyone else, if you want to participate in the giveaways on discord, you have to vote because when you when you win the prize we have to see proof that you voted as well. So check the pin tweet above my profile and above to vote and the giveaways are being announced on discord. Next pitch cake a second and final pitch man, fun to drop you out again. Or I'll do the second pitch while K. K. Tries to come up. So we go um is the second pitch up yet Romy Open games, You guys open game builders.


guys, a man. So that's gonna be interesting. That's for the museum. So it's gonna be really interesting one. I'd love you to articles you've got 90 seconds. I'd love you to articulate it very clearly and very well because it's a very it's a it's a I think it's exciting but it's harder to to understand the utility of it. So I'll let you guys speak. Got 90 seconds and I'll run the timer since cake is not here. Mike is yours. Go ahead.

Okay thank you. My name is mara and the Ceo and the founder of a company from Spain. We are making the fifth platform in the world budget for games on real asset connected with sports. And we have two mbps right now. We have one game fighter one versus one like mortal kombat for example, connected with sports and we have the second mbps. The quantum collection metaphors who are making the collection in the world. We have the most complete collection from fossils, minerals and method. It's


I think, I think like I speak spanish but it's pretty hard to understand you


I mean everyone wants to pretend that they understand what you're saying. I think people don't really understand the language barrier because you gotta, you know, strong spanish accent. It sounds like you're trying to stick companies on the Blockchain and then you go to the company, you're like, hey man, your fans like stuff what they like. Your car's all right. Let's let's stick your cars on the block chain and see if they can get them to buy token. I think, I think that's like an okay business that a lot of people do. I mean it's like merchandizing right? Like oh you like Star Wars, let's see if we can get kids to buy Star Wars lunch boxes and socks and underwear and shoes and hats and gloves and you know you just shove the logo on every imaginable thing. I guess it's an okay business model. I guess it doesn't really need to have any utility by and large. I think the metaverse sucks, doesn't really exist. You're just looking at pictures on your screen.


I'm a big fan of the metaverse. I think that we discussed that before. Like I just think we're living in the metaverse already, just not that immersive yet. Um but it was a discussion, so

I just was in virtual reality today killing my friend in the head with paris. Like I like my shoulders from shooting him in the head with arrows.

But this is it like this is just a web two version of the metaverse without the concept of ownership. And I think like open games, what you guys are doing is leveraging LFTs but Richard like you don't, do you think moving those experiences that we have in the physical world to the digital



okay. You go to elementary school and you ask kids like, hey kids what you wanna do, I wanna make video games and then you give them a computer and you're like, okay, kids go make video games and they all suck. And so you know, in the real world, it's extremely hard to make a good video game. It's extremely hard to make good art. It's extremely hard to make good music. And so any any of these appeals to like we're going to make something good by and large, they probably will not, it will probably fail. And so maybe these guys have history of already doing good stuff. I would find it highly unlikely because like if you can make good stuff, you just launch it on the same platforms that all the other multi billion dollar companies launch their stuff, so you would put it on uh whatever metas stupid headset thing is or HTC s headset thing and then that's it and you'd have a million times the audience, maybe you'd only have 100,000 times the audience, you have 100,000 times the audience, you probably have 10,000 or 100,000 times the revenue. And so like just being like you know, screw the largest possible imaginable market with devices that could actually use this stuff like let's let's cut off our legs and just launch it to the crypto nerds, you know like it's it's silly. So like I you know I was addicted to games for 10 years. I have a pretty high bar for the kind of game I prefer to play which is currently none because I kicked the habit. But you know if I hadn't kicked the habit, I don't think Blockchain game would be what I'd play.

Can I answer to? Yes yes I'm a professional e. S per player and we know are making the games by ourselves in the company. In spain, we have more than 500 people working for us in Pakistan and Dubai with game stores to your uh company like partner of us and they have a lot of win win conditions on google play for example, they have a lot of game even we have a pre alpha of one game. And I invite you if you if you play games a lot of time, I invite you to play and test the game and then we can go more deep if you don't like it. But

it is possible to make a good game. It's just hard. Most people feel, you know like if you go to uh everything is it's just everyone when they come in these short interactions says they're not wire and you're like well it's improbable, you know.

Yes, but we have to try, you know, it's like the big big companies are not entering the in the in the Blockchain because the normal gamers hate the world Blockchain or N. F. T. But if you change the mind of the people and you make a transition of these E. S. Sport professional players and the game in a scene into a platform, easy to play like a Steam for example, that that is where we are making on phantom foundation with the support of the of the net. So it's more easy to bring more people and make the transition for the future. So we are building in the worst scenario possible and thinking in the future because people have to play and people go to enter in the Blockchain. So you have to get the vision.

I'm a fan of it, like Tony had to jump off this space because he has a call that started 16 minutes.

I want to jump off because I don't want to hear people's random pitches rather than buy coins that go up 100 x than any of this

stuff. Even

If the stuff you're doing is awesome, it's like, yeah, but they could have took that same money and bought something that's going to go up 100 x. I'd rather than see them make life changing wealth.

You know, you can't say some of those projects pitching can't be the next 102 100,000 X. And you just don't know which one it is going to be. You know, Acsi was pitching to raise money back then the central and pitch to me and I said no, which I know you don't you might not believe in them till this day, but they had incredible returns. So I kind of giving props for the pitches and I think, you know, you didn't you didn't you didn't shoot on them either. I think like for you not to shoot on the pitch means that it was a pretty good job vetting them. But

yeah, I usually savage them and this is the least savagely I've ever been.

I wish you can see my WhatsApp group, you know, the internal the guys behind the scenes running the show if you could see their chats, they're gonna crucify me for forgetting on the panel. But it worked out pretty well. I think both good did man um, second pictures great. Anyone that wants to put to, to vote, you have to give away. That was the final pitch. It's pinned above.

Can we get everyone here to go play with their free coins in the test. So they don't get wrecked on the real net. Go use your free coins and test. Not guys. That's it. I don't even know what I'm talking about. Go and pulse in a calm and use your free coins. Play around with them. Hey, you wanna know a game that's on the Blockchain right now. It's the most awesome game on the Blockchain. Right now. It's free, you can't lose money.

It's called go play with your free test net coins on false chain dot com. It's a copy of all your ethereum coins and all of your weird tokens that you like from like six months ago. They're sitting there, go play with them.

Richard one final question to you man. Market conditions, We ask you this question every time you come on the show, you still, you still think Grayscale

Grayscale 33% discount. You're not getting a sustainable run until it goes away. That's it Until the Grayscale 33% discount goes away, which is a free 50% more money if it just went back to parody a free like 70% more money if it traded its normal 20% premium, you're not getting a sustained bull run until it goes away. In my opinion. I don't think anybody is so stupid in Wall Street to be just like Oh I could have a free 70% profit by buying this thing that's totally actually secured. Provably. I don't I don't think that's the case. Like I think you're going to keep getting downside. And did we do our historic 85%? Don't know we did. Are they are the N. F.

T. Guys at


bottom of the bears when the N. F. T. Guys finally give up pitching and when everyone is like yeah we give up the stuff.

I'll tell you this. So two things first. Bitcoin, how much did it correct? We didn't hit 85%. What was it, 70


75. It doesn't mean you have to hit 85.

So you think that you think that but there's actually a really big difference between 75 and 85. And so this is another one of these thought leader things where I gotta teach everyone the way to see this when I tell you that Bitcoin drops 75 ethereum dropped 85 hex drop 95. I make them look all similar but I can do the opposite of that as well and they're both true. So I'm gonna do the opposite for you when something drops 75 you've got 25 left. When something drops 85 you've only got 15 left. The difference between 15 and 25 is like an extra 50%. When something drops 95 instead of 85 you only got five left instead of 15. That's an extra three X. That you have to go to make up the difference. That's an extra 66% dump. And so while 85 95 sound quite similar. In reality you're left with five instead of 15, the 85 3 times better than the 95.

And so you have

to do you

have to invert you have what you have to do is you have to look at the inverse and then reason about the inverse. Now it's still very useful to think that they're small because usually during the dumps more if it has product market fit overcomes the three acts very easily at least, you know, in texas terms historically. So but it's it's important to show these things accurately, right? Like I could frame it in the big way or the small way you might as well just know that both exist. So you don't get caught in any cognitive traps. You know, you're aware of both.

And then there's the other argument that and I say this to a lot of people and people that bought luna when it dropped 95%. What they don't understand is if something drops 95%, it doesn't mean it can't drop another 95% and another 95%.

That was a weird one that that had a reflex of property of inflating supply on the way down that the vast majority of coins do not have. The vast majority of all just die 95 and stay at 95 until they pump again. Like

if they have

product market fit, if they're straight, they just go to zero.

Exactly. Exactly. That's the point I'm making. So so scam. So, so when you're sitting on your bags and you think I was talking to a bunch of N. F. T. Guys earlier again, I love the N. F. T. Community. I was talking to one of their investors and they're like, yeah, we're just waiting for the market to pick up and get my bags to pump.

I'm just telling them like a small percentage of projects will do extremely well in the next bull run again. My product market fit, but the ones that don't have product market fit or shitty team or city founder, if they dropped 95% doesn't mean they'll pump in the bull market will drop another 95 another 95 until zero. So just a reminder,

holding a scam longer just gets you wrecked more.


I cannot express. It's like look at the metrics right, Are you on ramping new users is the sales pitch remaining the same during do you have a durable moat or walled garden? You know, it is are the fundamentals getting better. And I think for a lot of these things like, so for instance, okay, what was the first M FT project? Crypto Kitties? Okay, Well if I truthfully, I don't know how well they did and I don't know how wrecked they are now. And I think it would be very useful to know that if you're trying to predict how wrecked the stuff is now versus how it could be and and then how likely it would be to maybe get back again in the future. You know, I think that it would be useful to know that I I also think that you have opportunity costs like even if you, even if you buy some thing that goes up, is it the thing that is going to go up the most, You know, I'm about the mad gains, not the medium gains, the mad gains.

Yeah, But the more you're aiming for those big gains, the risky it is because you, you know, you can just buy blue chips and be happy with a few excess. But if you're looking for the next 1000 X, it's gonna be a bunch of them going to zero before you land 1000 X. So it's, you know, it is a maybe

maybe the recipe is to go with founders that have a history of doing 1000 X and 10,000 stuff maybe. I don't know, But I am biased because I did it 10,000 x. So

congratulations for that Gary. And I have a hand up man and good to have you. Yeah love love the show, love when you have Richard on. Really appreciate that. Richard, you know, thank you very much for hacks. Really excited about pulse, all that good jazz. Just want to go up on stage real quick and slight correction. The first N F T project out there. Pre pre crypto, N F T is E N S U N S ethereum name service which I know Richard's not the biggest fan of but

uh yeah

but but is uh you know the smart contract for the e th names is uh completely without admin keys on the Blockchain. And if you you know the only thing you gotta worry about is your name expiring and the only attack vectors if you know the dow was attacked and the prices did increase. But yeah just you know get get your web three user name app dot ns dot domains. You could you know, learn more about your DNS. We did it we did a segment Gary. We did a segment on the N estimates a few weeks ago. I actually bought a three digit estimate live but I don't like Richard. What's the what's the other side?

Sure. Okay so you have smart contract risk when you just have someone sent to an address. You don't have any smart contract risk. You generated the address you have your own entropy. You're not worried about some centralized entity jacking it now. Okay what if I go to the people that the country of Ethiopia and I negotiate with them to take over the domain and now the dum dums that go and type your dot right like metallic dot if they go type it into the RL now they're gonna go to website. I control is that a good idea? Should we be training our users that they should be typing in dot the things in the browser. There's a totally different mechanism by which it operates than any other actual top layer domain name because Ethiopia owns E T H and ethereum and nothing associated with a dozen. Which is why you don't go and type a hashtag on twitter and see an ethereum logo. You see in Ethiopia lego for a year now I think it expired, they didn't renew it. You're not going to see an ethereum one because Ethiopia owns it.

So I don't like the counter party risk. I don't like someone else getting rich selling something that I own. Okay, so let's let's say I own richard hart dot com and now someone registers richard hart dot oh now they're squatting my name that I built the brand for? That I invented. They're violating my rights. I have to beg some company to assign me my U. R. L. I don't like any of that. I don't like someone else getting rich on my name. And what happens now if I at one time did control the stupid thing which doesn't even work when you paste in the browser and has smart contract risk. But let's say magically that I did on it for a little while and I lose my keys or I get hacked now what do I do now?

The hackers get paid on that forever because instead of doing the smart thing the intelligent thing. The thing that we all invented from the first place which is you know people's name and number by social consensus. And then you send to it sometimes with the test transaction and then a verification to make sure that there was no man in the middle attacks. Uh Sometimes not but like Cryptocurrency was invented to get rid of counter parties and this is an entity that's getting rich as a counter party. Cryptocurrency was invented to remove mental men. This is a middleman and it trains people to do the wrong thing and I hate everything about it. And in addition to that one of the founders about that villainize and demonize me for reasons I don't really understand. So I don't like anything about it and you don't like it just it seems terrible to me why why is why is someone else getting rich on squatting this new fake T. L. D. Which is a utility discussed. It makes no sense.

Yeah. Richard you bring up you bring up a lot of good points and a lot of those same points that you're reading about this. You could say about twitter, you can say about web two protocols. What it comes down to is that you know you bring up a lot of like really you know really valid concerns. Some of those valid concerns have been addressed. Some of those valid concerns in the process of being addressed and if people do things incorrectly then there's no helping you know helping them. Because if somebody does get their wallet hacked then yeah maybe they lose their N. F. T. S. Maybe they lose their black chain identity, their DNS name. They also lose you know all the coins in that wallet and a lot of other situations like that.

What what it comes down to is that the human readable Blockchain based naming layer uh you know E. N. S. Protocol is out there in a way that has um you know, no there is a token but there's no vcs, it's built on builders. It's out there. That is the most decentralized human readable naming system that's allowing people to create identities and to add on a human uh you know readable layer. And it does add it's true, it does add a layer of of you know like uh um a layer, a layer of things to know a layer of risk in the middle if if things you know it can be seen as being safer is just using you know that you know someone's I. P. Address as opposed to you know using their domain name. But you know I mean with some some of the problems like the dot E T H E N. S believes in responsible naming space. So the only decentralized naming uh is a dot E C H.

Is you know taken out of the DNS space and at the same time it's forward compatible with Icann, which means that other people can play. But in terms of the Blockchain based people web three people, you know, and I'm also not a big fan, you mentioned a lot of points in the richard. I'm also not a fan of the squatters, squatters aren't fun and it's it's not cool and squatting on the names and once you your name, once you do this, once you do secure your name and you secure your crypto and your N. F. T. S properly, then that name is yours. And then you have an identity. And then you know, if you if you follow best practices, it just gives you a layer of opportunity. And even though there are legitimate risks that Richard

because well I gotta tell you for a guy representing something I hate I like you you seem great like you know you seem you don't you took every concern I had and addressed it and realized it was there and maybe agreed with some and like look I understand security, convenience tradeoffs. I think people should be allowed to make them. Um and I try to like there's so many things that we build and people realize you know all these things out there like you know you have to authorize it the contract to spend your funds, you have to authorize the contract to spend your funds and God forbid you authorize a fake one approx seed one and then they change it and now you just lose all your funds. And so that that design mechanism of having people authorized contracts to do things is actually a terrible thing to train your users to do. And so what we do in our system is there is no authorizing a contract to do anything ever at all. And so if you go to remove all the permissions imaginable, it doesn't harm your experience with sex at all because we use message sender every single time as the verification method and we never use a contract to do things on your behalf and empty you. And so training users with superior design parameters and superior behaviors is like the best we can do to help stupid people make good decisions. So let

me give you 11 cool security feature that the DNS names have is that the DNS names have to sort of uh ethereum address records. One of those records is the owner of the address. And then the second record is the controller of the address. So the name that owns the N F T is not the same address that has the ability to to make updates that record. So the address that you're using to update the records and connect to things if that gets hacked just because they theoretically could change the fields and, you know, the data fields and the DNS name, they would not be able to change control. So there's a lot

of, can I ask you a question? Yeah, of course. What happens with pulse chain?

What what happens with paul, Shane or fast forward?

So, you know, so, you know, paul strain dot com is a full of the ethereum system state

exactly duplicate of all the DNS tokens. There's gonna be a duplicate copy of all the DNS Blockchain domain names and just like everything else, like, you know, it's gonna be interesting to see.

So is it gonna break or is it gonna work? Do you, do you have a decentralized i. PFS front end or?

No? Is

it all kind of fake defy centralized or?

No, everyone, everyone's gonna choose which contract that people look to is the ultimate source of truth, you know, for things. And they may bridge. Some things like E r c 20 tokens are gonna bridge over and they're all gonna become ubiquitous and other things like the board apes and 50 projects and DNS names, you know, you know, E N S is more of a protocol that it is an N. F T project? It's the protocol, it's, you know, top of the stack development layer of like, you know, Blockchain naming and identity. I don't wanna get into that. But yeah, people are gonna have to choose, you know?

So what it sounds like, what it sounds like to me is that it's gonna work fine. So let me, let me take, let me take a stab at it because I'm literally, I usually have everything figured out, I do not have this figured out, I'm figuring this out with you right now because you know more about this than I do. It sounds like, or my gut feeling is that the majority of places people actually use the N. S. Is in meta mask and if Madam asked didn't handle the dot suffix the way that you wanted them to and point to the contract you wanted them to, it wouldn't work at all. And so in actuality, the centralization part of making the N. S. Work is begging meta mask to say, hey, when someone types dot at the end, can you please point to this contract, which we consider to be authoritative, pretty pleased back

On that a little bit because what's going to happen is that there's going to be a standard with ethereum called the IP 4361, which is going to be the signing of the ethereum standard And then everyone, when they, when they come to black chain instead of all their debs figuring out. Oh man how do I do this thing where I connect with a mask and I like connect with the wallet. There's gonna be a standard which is the 4361.

But I'm not I'm not I'm not trying to dog you on this one. No no no this is this is like minimal,

this is the

minimum abstraction. Like everyone's using meta mask, you have to beg betamax to do stuff like that. It's ok. So my point is like if that is the case that really the only reason this works is because madame Masque lets it work with the setting and the code that says

no but

but it is now like before that ap rolls out it is now right? But that's good. Listen that's this current system state makes pulse chain run better. Is what I'm saying because I think what will happen is if you just change the network, you're on metal masts still thinks that pulse chain is actually ethereum it's just another fork of it and therefore I think that people's dot domains on pulse chain will still point to that contract which is also deployed on pulse chain. So I think it will just work. I don't think it's going to break I think will work on pulse chain.


default right

now. You can

test it right now. I think it works.

Yeah sure that it not only works, but like, well

that's nice.

That's what I'm saying is that

you understand a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff will not work on pulse chain if it's fake defy and requires you to beg somebody to change something somewhere right? Like, like compound and like their liquidation bots, they need to be told, hey, go liquidate on this chain and like their front ends need to be told, hey, go, go look at this chain too. And so the fake defy stuff or at least, you know, not totally. I like this stuff that just works right? Like you just works extra works. It seems like this is just gonna work. I like stuff that when you do an honest work that it just works.

So when you say, when you say it just works, there's two different things that it just

works. One

thing where the smart contracts are going to continue to run on the pulse, like four of the system, but at the same time that the fork obviously creates a fork, not just, you know, into a new pulse chain chain, but also then the

users decide. Users decide what network

like your

Yeah, so it's like

there's two different

universes and the users decide which one's authoritative

and users and two different decisions that gets to say

and meta meta basket break either of these that will

uh Yeah, well, I mean there's, I mean there's the ethereum standards and the I PS. And how that goes because then it breaks everybody, meta mask breaking would then break everybody who wants to play with a mask. So the mask himself

meta mask band one of my Urs once. So literally anyone that had a metal mask installed when they would go to one of my euros, I think it was paul sax or paul's channel. Remember which they just, they just like they banned it and you're like, hey guys, uh why'd you do that? Oops. And then they unbanned it but you're like, oh the ugly head of centralization has popped up here, unfortunate, you know. Yeah,

they attack once they did that, they showed everybody that they could do that. And I think a lot of like pseudo defy is being shown as you know, as we're seeing with tornado cash and things like that. And some people are

like what is the difference between

a back end smart contract on the front and interface? I digress when polls change launches.

I like you dude, who are you, what do you do again? You seem smart, you're going to talk to.

Uh well I have a marketing technology business with my wife A. D. A. R. E. T. H. Uh unfolded life. We we just launched web three domains dot com. We're really into uh theory. Um, and web three and pulse chain and we're like old school hackers like they they 31 and two wasn't very smart, but they

told everybody

they well


listened to you because I was just like when everyone says one thing and I, you know, I just like validating things, I couldn't find proof of what people were saying. And then so yeah, I took a risk and that risk paid off

people. People don't realize how many smart hex comes around. There's geniuses up in our joint. Like I love mexican. I had no idea You were Yeah,

neither neither. Me. So Gary you were you were in the next section as well a few weeks ago. So I appreciate coming back. I don't know. You're the guy behind web three domains and I didn't know your hex as a mexican. Mexican. Mexican. So that's a I'm everything. I am everything. I love a theory and I love I love I love I love you should have been uh Gary should have been on the should have been on the show. No, no, not that one.

They should have been on the show with Richard and Bitcoin is debate. It's probably the biggest show we've had. You know, 75,000. Yeah. I wish, I wish you went up. I wish you went up and spoke man because you're pretty well spoken. Um but yeah, I'll let you I'll let you hit up Richard privately and I just want to give you Richard and I have together on telegram if he if he checks his telegram for Gary palmer Jr Jr oh

ship Yeah, I recognize that name. You have like a yeah,

some people dig it and uh and I dig it and listen I again, I have have been nothing but health by Richard and Richard's free book and Richard's community, which is partly my community and on the ethereum side of things, my hope is that everybody looks into DNS domains and secures their decentralized uh you know, Dottie th name because although uh you know like if you if you want more privacy, maybe you have an address with no DNS name, but if you do want a public identity, once you secure your public identity with your Dottie th name then you can add your, I can I don't have it set up this way right now. But once polls chain comes out I'll be able to receive pulse tokens with my DNS name, I'll be able to receive Bitcoin. So Gary quick question, quick question man, can you what do you think about the three? I need to end this discussion but I'm curious the three digit flex three digit dot which is the one I bought on the show a few a few weeks ago. Um Some people might think it's stupid but scarcity is really cool and people like scarcity and there's a huge network effect on both the number of people purchasing DNS names and the number of apps and apps that are integrating logging dot x Y z and the web three protocol. And so as DNS becomes more popular and you know, we just had two million names and in eight days we just added on point 100,000 new names and a lot of names. A lot of apps adapts adding on signing with ethereum so that's creating this network effect and the numbers are only going to increase with the decentralized, you know, version, there's only 1000 of those names. And then what's more is that everyone needs to realize It doesn't matter if it's an emoji a number or a word every every every word, every letter put together into a word is a symbol. You know, it's all every symbolism. M and every meme has value and so therefore every number has value. There's only 1000 of them and there's only 10,004 digits and there's only 100,000, you know, they're not you know 90,005 digits, you know what I mean? So forth.

So scarcity is cool. And E N s names are N F T s with real utility. It's not just an N F. T. It's a protocol you want to speak man. Yeah, I was going to say I got some emoji three emoji domains and yeah that's crazy. Yeah, I love them. I just love them. I don't know, I keep stacking them and stacking these these emoji domains and or

maybe also

I got some three letters domains and I just keep them. I will see maybe something happens. You know these are really rare inside the collection. You know it's a collection inside the collection. So it's very cool that people make special website

where you

can track these domains

because on open C.

It's really impossible. And yeah that's a huge huge movement. And if you're on your brave browser, if you're brave browser you can go to Gary palmer Jr dot E th and then I'll ask you if it's okay to use insurer and then it will redirect you to my I. P. F. S. Website. You want to know something funny. Richard that we talked about jewelry. And the last discussion about N. F. T.

S. Um And you talked about your diamond, did you hear about the Tiffany pendant they made just for people that own a punk. And then like your punk

only made a

100. So Tiffany made pendants purely for punk owners only did like a couple of 100 of them was like 30 or 50 K. Pop. So that's the first time I personally ever buy jewelry because just Because I felt like you know kind of Web 3-related and it was a good flex. But

maybe if you if

you gotta. No I'm

Looking at a picture of one right now and it looks really not good.

Let me let me try to pitch Mr Richard. This is what you get. First of all, somebody owns the crypto punk and it's a it's a unique design and then they get not only get um they get a a real physical limited edition of 250. You know gold jewelry diamond pendant physical thing. And they get the N. F. T. And now Richard they have a set so when they can now sell the Tiffany's jewelry and someone will be like not only do I want dependent but I want the original punk that goes with it and it now adds value. Like all three things together create like a new level of value for that collection.

Let me let me let me do some verbal combat ary here real quick. Hey people are stupid enough to Oprah pay for bad art now they're stupid enough to pay for the same thing digitally even more. We fucking

reloaded them twice



If the dam art were cooler it would be more legit.

I'll tell you I'll tell you I didn't add this. So they start with the pendant but they're building and they're going to add more utilities to be represented by an N. F. T. So could give

every one of these things from my N. F. T. Comes out. I'm going to do all of these silly things too and then I'll be more friendly towards them. You

should I should do like try to do exclusive drops for like a punk or an ape community. Um And then you start adding utility to it. Like you do you do an event, they get exclusive access to it and they get exclusive access to a drop that you're doing whatever it is. So that's what Tiffany's doing, adding more utilities to it and uh welcome to the dark.

How do you feel about exclusive access to a 95% dump,



five Richard. Pleasure to have you bro man, as a good segment. I hope you enjoyed it as well.

Thank you guys. It's been awesome. Really? Thank