HIBT Lab! Google: Sundar Pichai - Transcripts
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So to call google powerful. Well that's an understatement. Its products and services touch billions of humans on the planet, email systems. We use our cloud storage servers, even the platform I'm typing this introduction on right now. It's a google doc, a part of me and I hope a part of you is kind of terrified about that and I believe that a part of google is also terrified about that because what started as a project famously in a Palo alto garage is now one of the most dominant corporate forces in the world and yet it is led by an unlikely leader, Sundar Pichai, the company's Ceo had never left India until age 21. In fact he'd never flown on an airplane until 1993 the year he made the long journey from his home in Chennai India to the Silicon Valley to attend Stanford on a full scholarship And even after a successful run as a product manager overseeing everything from google chrome to google drive. Sundar never saw himself as a future ceo of the company. He was happy digging into the hard technical problems he faced, but in 2015 he was appointed Ceo and today it's not just technical challenges he faces, but the challenges of trying to lead one of the biggest most visible brands on earth at a time of culture wars employee revolts and greater scrutiny of tech companies. A few weeks ago, google held its annual I. O. Conference where it unveils, new products and technology and one of the main topics this year, artificial intelligence. It is according to Sundar Pichai, one of the single most important areas of focus for google and its future.
Sundar is here to talk about ai the future of work, how to encourage innovation by allowing for failure and how he's learning to lead at a very fraught moment in our history. Welcome to the show. Thanks so much. So center, let's start with your life before google before you came to the U. S. Um you grew up in in mainly in what is now Chennai in India And I know you were a student at the Indian Institute of Technology. Um and this was in the sort of the early days of what we now call web 1.0 right. In sort of the late 80s early 90's um you were a promising engineering student and I read that that already as a student you were you were sort of focused on microchips and on on how computers work.
That's right, that's right. And literally fascinated by it and you know I was fascinated by the pC revolution. You know I was studying material science but I was interested in semiconductors as a material. So it was definitely interested in computers and how semiconductors make computers happen, chip technology, chip fabrication and so those were my areas of interest but I definitely didn't see working on consumer internet as where I would end up. You know, I had envisioned, you know, you could think of something like intel as more along the lines of what I was thinking about.
There was any part of you thinking my next step is coming to the United States. Was it even on your radar?
It was by the time I was in college given my where my interests were shaping up to be in my junior and senior year had started doing some research on semiconductors. And and so literally being in Silicon Valley working on Silicon wanting to come to Silicon Valley was something naturally I was fascinated about. And so it was definitely in my radar by that time.
Had you ever been to the United States before, 1993?
Uh No, I mean in fact my first flight ever in my life was to come to the U. S. So no, I have never been on a plane before. The first journey which took me to the U. S. I went to Pittsburgh first where my uncle was and you know, he was faculty at Carnegie Mellon, he was the first person in my family to kind of make it there. And so that played a part in me thinking about coming to the US and hearing from him about the opportunities, how world class the universities were. But I first came to Pittsburgh and I stayed there for 2-3 weeks before I headed down to California,
right to California to stanford, where you, where you got a scholarship to study. That's right, I know that you didn't have access to a computer growing up. So really your first exposure to a personal computer was not until you got to Stanford in 1993.
Uh in the Indonesia of technology, I 80 as we call it, there was definitely a lab, you know, I didn't have full access to it, but I may be used it, I would say I can count the number of hours maybe in one or two hands. So that that's how much I had seen it, I'd used it for a few hours, but only when it came to stanford, there were these labs in which I could go and work and have unlimited access and program and so it was like an entire new world opened up for me, I was so enamored with it. I didn't quite realize at the time the internet was fully underway. I was just fascinated by just having access to so many computers.
What was that? I mean 1993 is like God just seems like, you know, it's just such a long time ago, remember Being overseas in the mid 90s and it was different, you know, calling my parents in Los Angeles for example was a big deal. You know, you quickly get on the phone, have a quick chat and maybe they would pick up and you know, that was you read letters um this was your first time in United States, you were away from your family in India. What do you remember about being in the United States of stanford at the time? Was it, was it lonely? Were you homesick?
Yeah, I was definitely lonely. You know, my, my girlfriend was back in India and you mentioned you know what it is to communicate and It was about in Stanford from MIT in campus at that time to call back to India was around $2.50 approximately a minute, you know? And so within about a week of every month I probably was broke mostly calling my girlfriend at the time now my wife and a lot of letters etc. But definitely it was tough to communicate what we take for granted what's probably impossible to explain to the current generation, but communication was really hard and so I definitely felt lonely, but it was an extraordinary place and I made a lot of friends and soon I settled in but it was definite transition coming in and settling down into the country.
You would stay on for an M. B. A. Program at the University of Pennsylvania warden by the time you got here and started studying here, was it clear to you that you were going to make your future in the United States that this was where you were going to establish your life or did you think maybe you'd go back to India?
I think for me, academically coming to a place like stanford and seeing the access and I wanted to be cutting edge in terms of the research I wanted to pursue. So for me there was naturally a part of me which is like this was my dream and I wanted to continue doing it here, but I wasn't fully sure as to where things would end up. So, you know, I didn't think too far ahead
When you started at Google, it's just 2004, Google was a completely different company. I mean it was a fraction of what it is now, obviously growing and becoming more influential, but still tiny compared to what it is now, you mean, you were involved in some of the biggest product rollouts and I mean google chrome, right, google drive things that are now almost indispensable for so many people? How did you kind of see your place in the company? You know, at that time? I mean, did it feel like you were part of something really big? Was it hard to have that kind of perspective? What do you remember about that time?
Definitely Google felt like a special place. I got exposure to the founders early on and very clearly talking to them. You had a sense they were very, I would call unique thinkers as a pair of them. They would always come at problems at a very, very different viewpoint. And so it felt unique. They were very ambitious in everything they set out to do and, you know, at google at any given time, there were a lot of projects, some of them were crazy. And so you had a sense that this was different, but at the same time I always sensed the power of the internet. That's why I came to google. And so I realized for the first time, you're going to have a technology which is really going to touch billions of people and over time, can I really be accessible to more people than prior versions of computing and technology. So, you know, you had the sense that this was going to be something really big and you were part of, I'm talking about the internet now and you're part of a bigger movement too. So a combination of all that made it feel pretty unique.
Did you see yourself at that time as a leader or did you, did you have ambitions to be a leader or were you more focused on being a product guy and focusing on the technical side and just sort of being a good employee
more the latter for sure. You know, I I definitely was focused on rolling up my sleeves, building products and shipping them and just a thrill of trying to build something and put it out and see how users respond to it and they adopt it and and and so for me a lot of it was about that craft if you will and so that's what I was focused on love the company. People were incredibly optimistic and so definitely nothing beyond that.
We're going to take a quick break. But when we come back, Sundar shares how he eventually did start thinking about leadership and what he's focused on as the ceo of google today. Stay tuned, You're listening to how I built this lab. If you've recently bought anything, you've probably noticed that prices have gone up on almost everything, especially on essentials. That's why it's a great time to use good R. X to at least save on your prescription costs and how well with good Rx you can instantly compare prescription prices at pharmacies in your neighborhood and find discounts that could save you up to 80% good Rx is free and easy to use and works whether you do or do not have insurance and I know tons of people use good Rx every day and save tons of money doing it. So for simple smart savings on your prescriptions. Check good Rx, go to good Rx dot com slash built, that's good Rx dot com slash built good Rx dot com slash built. Good Rx is not insurance but can be used in place of insurance, Medicare and Medicaid in 2021 good Rx users saved 81% on retail prescription prices. Hear that sound? That is the sound of another sale on Shopify the all in one commerce platform to start run and grow your business. Shopify is more than a store.
It helps you connect with your customers drive sales and manage your day today. Shopify powers millions of businesses from first sale to full scale. In fact, many of the companies you've heard on this show power their businesses through Shopify and many of the people who listen to this show do the same thing. Shopify unlocks the opportunity of your business to more people every day. In fact, every 28 seconds, an entrepreneur like you makes their first sale on Shopify go to Shopify dot com slash built, that's all lower case for a free 14 day trial and get full access to Shopify, entire suite of features, grow your business with Shopify today. Go to Shopify dot com slash built right now. Shopify dot com slash built. Hey welcome back to how I built this lab, I'm guy raz and I'm talking with Sundar Pichai, ceo of google and alphabet Sundar. At what point did you start to see yourself as somebody who could be the ceo of google and alphabet? I mean based on your description of your early days, that would never have crossed your mind. But at some point you must have at least mentally had to become prepared to do that. Do you remember what enabled you to prepare to actually see yourself in that role?
I think uh you know, there was some point at which Larry page who was the Ceo at a time when one of our co founders asked me to manage our entire product portfolio. So to be the head of products in a technology company, in a product focused company like google, it is the essence of the job. And so in some ways when I started working on it, I naturally felt that accountability for the company if you will. So not that I thought of myself as a Ceo, but the natural role demanded you end to and think about everything. And so I actually started working that way. So that's where it began. But I never thought much about being a Ceo as much as given, I love building products, the chance to do it at scale and to build products for the entire company was more than what I wanted and would have been happy doing that part but I think that's probably was the beginning of the transition and when both Larry and I started thinking about it
when you joined google in 2000 and four, it was just a few years after Jack Welch retired from G. E. And he was like the sort of iconic Ceo who um sort of represented in the minds of people what a ceo should be sort of fist pounding the table and that's been reassessed now and it's definitely not a model I think a lot of C. E. O. S would adopt but you had and have a reputation for being a quiet leader before I get to that I want to understand how you kind of learned to become a leader because you are running a company is much bigger than G. E. Ever was today and much bigger than what Jack Welch had to do and you had to become that person over time. So tell me why when you started to think of yourself as a leader,
you know one of my mentors was someone called Bill Campbell, he was a football coach at Columbia and later you know mentored a lot of Ceos, he was the Ceo himself and he had this famous saying he called it wrongly now but it's basically you know you don't become a leader of people, it's your people who make your leader, I think for me that always resonated. So I didn't focus much on how I'm going to be a leader as much as whatever I was doing. You know, I was fully committed to making it successful, including the people who work for me. So always approach it as trying to help make what we are working on. The more successful, including particularly the people I worked with, so being really vested in there, success and their outcomes and going the distance to do that. And so I guess that's the process by which it unfolded. And so maybe somewhere along the line I realized I was making this transition, but it was more natural for me. And the second thing was I realized being a leader also allowed you to scale and work on more than one problem at a time. And so that appealed a lot to me as well. So it's probably a combination of both of those things.
I want to focus on what was kind of your North star, I guess really a central focus of your ambitions for google. And that's artificial intelligence. Um we've been hearing about artificial intelligence for a long time. It goes back to alan turing in World War Two and before and even over the past 10 years, anybody who's seen ted talks or you know, you hear about toast, AI is going to change medicine, ai is going to change the way we consume energy and AI is going to solve climate change is going to make government smarter more efficient. That hasn't happened quite yet, none of those things have happened. And I'm talking about things I heard 89 years ago. Um tell me where you see now, glimmers of light coming through that are within grasp because I know google is investing so much money into this technology and it encompasses so many different things. So Give me sort of the 35,000 ft view of what Ai will do, what's it going to mean to us?
Okay. Um I always thought that the company should be and that's how the founders started to be, should be focused on deep computer science and technology to help solve problems and AI just happens to be one of the most important technological advances. So hence the focus on Ai. You know, when I look at the journey, one of the great things about AI is in some ways it's an abstract concept and the more Ai starts doing things, we kind of take it for granted. Right? And so it kind of bakes into the system and the expectations keep shifting and you know, we recently had an event called Google Io where as a company, we talked about all the things we do leading up to the event, I was reflecting on how AI is impacting all our products right countless ways and if you're in Gmail and you're typing something and we give all these suggestions for you to complete or to send quick replies back that actually works on machine learning and ai we now translate across many, many languages and it is seamless and in fact now we are going deep and adding some of the rarer languages in the world, but very, very important for the people who speak it. And the fact now you can seamlessly translate into hundreds of languages is an example of progress. If you use Youtube automatically generate chapters now based on a creator's video and also show transcripts of the video to people. So that's how Ai kind of working and it's automatic and it just works if you're a small medium business and you come to google and say, look, I want to grow my business, but I only have Few $100 to spend. You can go through the process and custom design and create everything or you can give your budget and our Ai systems can optimize and run a campaign for you. We are mapping buildings in africa and these are hard to do. And we're using ai to really scale up the number of buildings.
We are mapping, we are sharing the data with the World Bank and the United Nations to use for non profit purposes. You mentioned areas like health care, you know, it's obviously very regulated industry rightfully so and things take time. But just the fact that AI system will help triage Images for radiologists to scan and maybe re prioritize them in the right order. I see companies beginning to do that and something we will take for granted 10 years from now is how it'll all work. And so you see the progress and it's baked into our products. So if you talk to google and ask a question and we give you an answer back, there's a lot of AI underneath all those layers and I think you'll see it more in the fabric of what we do every day in countless things
in the future. Do you see a I being a greater source of revenue for a company? Like google over say advertising,
you know, as I became Ceo, I you know, I wanted the company to think of its technology approaches AI first is because I see that long term opportunity and so when you look at our business, for example, like google cloud through which we are offering technology to other companies, we will give them A I capabilities as well. So I think that'll be a big business opportunity. But above all, I think AI is a foundational technology which equally will make search better to maybe one day make you know, self driving cars work safer and much better. And so it kind of cuts across everything we do. And so I think these are two different dimensions, how we make money over time will be different than the fact that AI will power a lot of what we do as a company. But it will help us both diversify and create new businesses and that's part of our long term view on it, which is why I'm excited about both the amount of work we do there, but also the fact that we lead the way in many of the foundational areas there,
You know, I wonder about the ethical side of this because the question is if you could take Mark Zuckerberg or Jack Dorsey 15 years ago and this is one of the things gonna happen with this amazing thing that you're about to put into the world. What do you want to do now to prevent those things from happening now, google the most powerful company in the world or one of two or three has that opportunity to ask those questions, knowing what we know about the promise and peril of technology that we use today. So help me understand how you think about that and how you can preempt and anticipate the downsides the sort of the darker parts of Ai because it is also potentially an inevitable result.
That's a great question. And obviously technology always as dual use and a lot of journey is all about harnessing technology to benefit society. What gives me great comfort is if anything, I think for a i from very early days or at least for the past many years, people rightfully have worried about consequences. And so compared to many things you mentioned the internet earlier. I genuinely don't recall much conversations in the early days of the internet about some of the negative externalities that could come with it, right? And it was much more of a positive view and I think internet has been extraordinary force for good, but as you mentioned, you know, we've all had to learn process and work through some of the issues it creates as well. Ai on the other hand, I think from its earliest days, I think people have recognized both how profound it can be as well as the fact that you have to work extra hard to harness it. And coming back to us, this is why very early, I think compared to other areas of technology we have worked on, we both have articulated a clear set of AI principles publicly. We do a lot of AI research if you look at it compared to other foundational technologies, there is a lot of research which also goes into looking at ethical pillars of AI and how to make progress there. And more importantly, not just at google, but I think there are many, many places around the world uh universities, nonprofits over time and there needs to be laws and regulations. So this is an area where I think we are, I'm optimistic that we're thinking about it earlier than we have typically done with other areas. And so, you know, I see that we are approaching it better overall, but there's a lot of work left ahead
and also for better or worse, because google is such a powerful company, right? Such a powerful global force. You can't help but not understand why people would hold you accountable to be responsible around this, Right?
Absolutely. It makes a lot of sense to me. I think we feel a deep sense of responsibility here and I think it is perfectly correct and right that there is a lot of accountability and and you know, we need to be accountable to society as well as we pursue this work. Yes, that makes sense to me.
We're going to take a quick break. We're going to be back in a moment with more from Sundar Pichai of google and alphabet. Stay with us. You're listening to how I built this lab time and place is everything, especially in marketing, but in today's age of a million messages per minute and not enough hours in a day. How do you really catch your target audience's attention? Well, fortunately there's a simple way linkedin can help you speak to the right people at the right time Lincoln's targeting tools allow you to reach your precise audience, which means your ads are being seen by those who matter. So it's no wonder companies of all sizes and sectors are using it. In fact, we hear it built Productions used linkedin to market the how I built this book and it was incredible how helpful that was for book sales, scale your marketing and grow your business with linkedin advertising as a thank you to their customers for helping them grow three times faster than the competition linkedin is offering a $100 credit on your next campaign. Go to linkedin dot com slash built this to claim your credit. That's linkedin dot com slash built this with my crazy schedule. I am always on the go and I don't have a ton of time to do the things that I want to do like reading novels, which is why I love audible audible offers an incredible selection of audiobooks across every genre, from bestsellers and new releases to memoirs, mysteries and more. And as an audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from their entire catalog.
All audible members get access to a growing selection of audiobooks, audible originals and podcasts that are included with membership. I love listening to audible when I'm working out or I'm cooking dinner for my family which I do every night. Let audible help you discover new ways to laugh, be inspired or be entertained. New members can try it for free for 30 days, visit audible dot com slash built or text built to 505 100 that's audible dot com slash built or text built to 505 100 to try audible free for 30 days audible dot com slash built. Hey, welcome back to how I built this lab. I'm guy raz. My guest today is Sundar Pichai ceo of google and alphabet Sundar. I can only begin to imagine how complex your world is. I mean in part because you have to be obviously careful about what you say because it can move a stock and you can upset shareholders and I mean you've got to do quarterly calls, all these parts of your job in addition to overseeing all the technologies and so on. Um, but you know, google is seen as a leader and people look at google for lots of different things. So let's let me ask you about one important one, which is the future of work. Tell me about how you're kind of thinking about that because this is complicated.
There are a lot of different views on what the future of work should look like that. You know, there are people who believe that you can only do innovative work in person, that people have to exchange ideas and be around each other. Others say no, you can do it all remotely, but at the same time, the remote work environment over the past two years has also created a lot of strife because people are not around each other and There's been a lot of miscommunication and challenges and so I wonder what you think in 10 years time, will people be coming into the office every day or do you think that it's work now permanently in a new kind of work environment at least with with technology work and the work that you guys do.
I think the future of work will definitely be way more flexible than what it's been in the past And I think that's here to stay and 10 years out from now, you will definitely see employees having a lot more flexibility shortly speaking for technology companies and companies like ours, we as a company have internalized that, right? And I think, you know, and we are embracing it as an opportunity to think about how that future looks to be very clear. We see a lot of value in people coming together, fostering that community, a sense of a place where a creative environment so that people come together and can solve problems and build on each other. So the way I think about the future is we will have purpose built times and spaces where people will be able to come together and do all that, but people have a lot more agency and flexibility in their lives And just like 20 years ago, you know, I think Google challenged a lot of notions of what a workplace, could be the fact that you could mix fun and work together in the same space, the fact that you could have childcare close to campus and that would actually make everyone happier. You know, you could have slides in the middle of the office that wouldn't make people any less productive and so we challenged a lot of the notions and it worked out well similarly, I feel the same sense of excitement now and so challenging some of the past notions now allows us to think about how do we improve representation in the tech industry? Well we can now go to where people are and hire them then still we don't need to be as sensitive to location as before. So that to me is an opportunity if you're a working mother and the transition back, which is an important time, if you have a newborn adding that flexibility I think is a powerful tool to have. So everywhere I look at, I see opportunities and when I look at how painful commuters become for many, many people and in fact a lot of our people were spending two hours each way sometimes, you know, so it gives us a chance to rethink all that.
But but what do you do with all of that infrastructure? I mean the slides and the, you know, the the huge spaces and I've been to the google campus, amazing public areas like, I mean there's a risk that parts of it become like an abandoned amusement park, you know, like a haunted amusement park that just shuttered right? Because there's all of this infrastructure, but when it's not full of people don't, you have to kind of reevaluate how you think about real estate
If I think about through this pandemic to particularly over the last 12 months when the conditions have improved In our urban offices like New York or London very quickly we get back to 65, occupancy right away. So it's a strong sense of people wanting to come in. So it depends on the space and place I think and you are right, we'll have to adapt and re thing today, everything is designed around people being there all five days a week and so in the future flexible world where people spend part of the time working from office, part of the time working from home, we need to reconfigure spaces, We need to evolve technology too because today it's very hard to participate in this hybrid setups. So all that our problems to be solved. You know, obviously if we create vast empty buildings, then we are not achieving our goal of creating that sense of community and collaboration. Right? So I think thinking about the future of work, both in the context of reimagining all the physical spaces as well as the imagining the technology that allows people to connect and collaborate is going to be an integral part of what we need to do. And I'm excited because when we do it and solve it for us, we also provide these products to other companies as well. So it's actually makes a lot of business sense for us, not just to solve for us, but for others as well. So I'm excited about it,
you know, google like other big companies Disney and others are at the center of, you know, culture wars over corporate policies around issues that employees care about employees are demanding that companies take a stand on things, roe versus wade, abortion rights, transgender rights, racial justice, foreign policies. It's it's a lot. And I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong, I just think it's so complicated to be a corporate leader today when your employees are saying, look, you've got to come out and speak about these things. I mean, I know you have in the past and you've addressed some of these things, but how do you know when to weigh in and when to say nothing?
It's a good question. I think you're right in the sense that the job of a ceo today I think has gotten more complex and and I think one of the reasons as you think about leadership, empathy and being able to lead with empathy, I think it's an increasingly important skill. I think people want to know you care and you know, I think, you know, companies need to be values driven, but I think you need to be focused and you need to have a set of values you passionately care about and you're very clear in what those values are and you build a track record over time. So if you've done the hard work, I think no single moment becomes as magnified. But if you haven't done that, I think a single moment can play out in a much bigger way. So there's no easy answer as much as I think, you know, as a company, we deeply care about our employees, there are certain things we we deeply care about as a company as well, be it making technology more accessible, uh you know, or sustainability, making sure we have a diverse and representative workforce. So you know, you have a set of values which you are very clear about and I think I think you know, supporting free speech around the world, so you know, you choose the issues which are more core to who you are as a company and what matters to your employees and and with that framework, I think if you're purposeful, I think I think that's probably one way by which you can navigate through this,
how do you manage stress?
Uh you know, look
the most basic level, you know, I feel, you know, I genuinely feel it's a privilege to be doing what I do. I feel incredibly lucky and I get a chance to work on, I've always wanted to work on cutting edge technology, so the fact that I can go talk to our quantum team in santa Barbara and there are 100 people working on literally some of the most state of the art technology that humanity has ever worked on, you know, I I feel is a rare privilege and and so so that gives me a lot of perspective. The second thing is I'm very optimistic about the benefits that technology will bring. I feel it when I travel around the world and I meet people who, who are not yet part of the train and you know, they are hungry for that opportunity and you know, recalls back to my younger days and you know, I realize how powerful that is and so, you know, that that gives me a lot of excitement at what I do. So a combination of all that gives me a perspective and the third I would say is a lot of stress comes from, you know, feeling every decision you have to make a lot of decisions as a leader, but over time you realize, you know, most of those decisions are not consequential and there are a few consequential decisions, but most of the times it's more important to make a decision. You have really good people you're working with and and so having faith in the system, the people and the processes around you, I think, I think it's actually a lot less stressful once you internalize it that way,
final question for you, how do you in a big, I mean, google was started in a garage, right? We know the story. Um and and this famously has been a famously innovative company, but it's massive. You've got, I don't know tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, maybe employees around the world. How do you compete again? I mean, you've got a lot of money right to finance projects and research, but how do you make sure that people are doing radical things and really pushing the limits without being afraid to screw it up? You
know, one of the counter intuitive things is organizations typically tend to become more conservative when they get larger, which is ironic because they're more resources than when they were a smaller company. And so, you know, you have to fight that. And the great thing about technology is there's constantly new things coming around. So, you know, I constantly wake up and there's a whole new app which I see people around me using, which they weren't using last year. Right? And that's true every year. And so, you know, things can come out of nowhere. And so honestly, if you sat in in my leadership meetings on monday, you won't feel that we have a large company or you know, you see us thinking hard about newer problems are worried about areas where we are and doing well or thinking hard about how we can innovate more in a new area. And so I think you have to have that and also to innovate well, it has to be a priority as a company and it's easier said than done. And to me, a key point I would say is you have to reward efforts, not always outcomes. I think most companies only reward successful outcomes, which means everyone becomes more conservative in their attempts and so google, we've always had this feeling of setting ambitious goals and we do fail in our goals, but you reward people for taking that Moonshot if you will and aiming and you reward the effort and how they approach their work regardless of outcome. And I personally have long held that belief and so I think that's an important process to make sure people feel supported to innovate and so you have to work hard at creating that
culture. Sundar thanks so much for coming on the show. Thanks
so much. It was a real pleasure
that Sundar Pichai ceo of google and its parent company, alphabet Hey, thanks so much for listening to how I built this lab. Please do follow us on your podcast app. So you always have the latest episode downloaded if you want to follow us on twitter. Our account is at how I built this in mind is at Guy raz and on instagram, I'm at Guy dot raz, if you want to contact the team, our email address is H I B T at I D 0.1 dot com. This episode was produced by Carlos estevez with editing by john Isabella. Our music was composed by Rammstein Arab louis, our audio engineer was NEal Rauch, our production team at how I built this includes Alex chung chris Mancini Elaine coats, J. C Howard Liz Metzger, josh lash sam Paulson Catherine cipher and Carrie Thompson never Grant is our supervising editor. Beth Donovan is our executive producer. I'm guy raz and you've been listening to how I built this. Mhm. Hey everyone, so I wanna make sure you know all of the different ways you can listen to how I built this. As you probably know, you can follow the show on amazon music, apple podcasts or wherever you're listening right now.
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