2 Dating Mistakes You Unknowingly Do & 5 Ways to Overcome Communication Blocks with Special Guests Rayna Greenberg and Ashley Hesseltine - Transcripts

March 10, 2023

  • Favorite
  • Share
Today, I’m speaking to Rayna Greenberg and Ashley Hesseltine who share their thoughts on dating and relationships. They take turns in talking about their best and worst dates, the general struggles most women have while dating, how to get through a difficult breakup - the do’s and don’ts - and the subtle dating red flags that are often missed. Rayna and Ashley of the "Girls Gotta Eat" podcast. The podcast was launched in 2017 and has since become a popular destination for listeners who enjoy discussions about dating, relationships, sex, and women's experiences in these areas. Each episode features the two hosts discussing their personal experiences, sharing dating and relationship advice, and answering listener questions. The podcast is known for its humorous and relatable approach to these topics, as well as its frank and honest conversations. In addition to offering advice, the hosts also interview guests who are experts in various aspects of dating, relationships, and sex, such as therapists, sex educators, and relationship coaches. Overall, "The Girls Gotta Eat" is a lively and entertaining podcast that provides a unique perspective on the ups and downs of dating and relationships for women.


blindsided broke up with out of the blue and he's like you did you do this you do that and you're like why didn't you tell me when those things were happening because feedback is important.

Hey everyone welcome back to On Purpose the number one health podcast in the world thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen learn and grow and I am so excited to be talking to you today. I can't believe it my new book Eight Rules of Love is out and I cannot wait to share it with you I am so so excited for you to read this book for you to listen to this book I read the audiobook if you haven't got it already make sure you go to eightrulesoflove.com it's dedicated to anyone who's trying to find keep or let go of love so if you've got friends that are dating broken up or struggling with love make sure you grab this book and I'd love to invite you to come and see me for my global tour love rules go to jshedytour.com to learn more information about tickets VIP experiences and more I can't wait to see you this year and so I've been loving learning from anyone who has insights tips tricks about dating about love about relationships and today's guests are going to give us a lot of that I'm talking about the incredible podcasters behind girls gotta eat a top comedy podcast about dating intimacy and relationships hosted by ashley hasseltine and reina greenberg reina and ashley candidly discuss any and all dating related topics ranging from fetishes to finances and bring in regular guests including therapists comedians doctors and authors most recently reina and ashley have launched a new company and I'm so excited to interview them right now the company's called vibes only and they're in

the studio right now ashley and reina thank you so much for being here thank you so much thank

you so much such a lovely inter intro thank you so much lovely interview lovely interview

You're so great interviewing us. You're so great interviewing us. She really gets off on what I love.

I love it.

Wait till we flip it and we get to hype for you. I'm going to be like number one. So thank you for having us.

We're so excited. No, I'm so excited. As I said, my whole team are huge fans. Anyone that I told I was going to see you today, they were like, oh, my gosh, no way. Please say hello. There was so much energy for us to be together. And we definitely felt like I've been trying to do more and more of this, and I think we'll see this when we post about it and talk about it. I've been trying to sit down with people that people don't expect me to sit down with and that people don't expect to sit down with me, and I think that's what creates this like really beautiful synergy in getting to know people, so I want to get to know you both today. I also want all your advice, because my audience is constantly looking for advice and tips and tricks. But I want to start off with just by saying, how's your day been so far?

What have you been up to today? Anything fun? We were taking a tour, no, we just moved here. I mean, I say move loosely, but we're gonna be here for a few months, maybe permanently, so. Wow, congrats. Just made a new part of LA and meeting you. And we actually have had a pretty exciting day work-wise. We booked some really fun stuff. Amazing. With interviews, we have to go back to New York

for some things, and it's been a good day. We were taking a tour. Wow, congrats.

Amazing. With day. Yeah, we're planning our next leg of our tour. Yeah. We're both London, where you're from, so we're really excited to go there. We'll announce that soon. Yeah, so we did a lot of really fun stuff because we're releasing really fun things for Valentine's Day for our intimacy company. Yes, exactly.

I love it, I love it.

We're one month one. I love it, I love it.

Yeah, it's been a great day. I'm like, feeling good.

That's awesome. Feeling good. Where are you staying right now? You said you're in a good area.

Was there specifically where you're staying? I'm in West Hollywood. Okay, yeah. And Reina, she can speak for herself,

but she's in Venice. Okay, yeah. I love Venice. When the first time me and my wife came here for work, we stayed in Burbank. And my wife was just like, oh, my gosh, there's nothing to do in LA because we thought Burbank was LA. Where's LA? And then the second time we stayed in West Hollywood, and I was like, oh, this is cool. I can go to the gym, I can get creation. Yeah. And then by the third time, she was like, okay, yeah, we can move there.

So, it took a difficult process.

Yeah. It took a difficult process. It's a hard city to know, and I came here so many times. And it's just, I feel like most cities we go to, like Charleston or Austin or Chicago, I can know it in two days. I'm like, I get it. But LA is so big, and so vast, there are so many areas. It takes a minute, but we're really loving it. We've been here for two weeks, it's just been really amazing to me. I went to the beach with sunset last night. And it's just been really nice. We're going to start dating here. So we're really excited.

Not each other, for other people. And it's just been really nice. And we're going to start dating. Not each other, for other people. Okay, got it. Alright, let's dive in the dating. Thank you!

Let's talk about that. Yeah, let's talk about that. When we said we were moving to LA, everybody was like, together? And we're like, no.

No, we're adults. No, but...

Yeah, let's talk about that. When it comes to dating,

I want to hear what's been the best date you've ever been on. Oh my God, the best. So for me, like what defines a good date is not like the activity necessarily. It's just how hard I'm laughing with somebody and that I want to go to like the next place, the next place, the next place and just like drink, dinner, whatever. I had a really crazy date that was on my first date in New York City ever 15 years ago. This guy like picked me up in a car, which is crazy you don't do that in New York. And he took me to Buddha Bar and we just had this like crazy over the top of New York. I was like, I can't believe I'm doing it. I'm in New York, this is a new experience, new place, this hot guy, it's so cool. We just laughed on it and we drank, we drank a lot. And then we took a car, we left his car, we took a car to the airport so we decided we were gonna fly to the Caribbean. On the first date?

On the first date and we went to the airport and he was like, I wasn't sober. We drove out to Newark and N03 goes 1 o'clock in the morning and they were like, no flights fly out right now.

And we were trying to go back,

he took a red flag and he did.

What, on the first date?

What were you on?

Airport was like back home. If you find yourself in an airport in New Jersey

on a first date, something has gone awry. You know me though, I like a person who's a little crazy. So I was like, is this the coolest person I ever met also, I was 21. But I just like somebody who like surprises me. It's fun, good conversation. That was like a fun date for me.

What's your best date? I mean, I had these dates when I first moved to New York that were just epic where you're in a basement dancing and then you go have like sake and sushi somewhere and you end up with late night tacos. You start on a rooftop, and like all these epic dates, like I really love dating there and going out with guys that were like showing me the city. I mean, I've been in New York a million times, but I always say it's a really great way to get to know the city is to have people take you out. So guys would take me to all these places and I would take dates there later and just act like I was this cool girl who knew my way around the city so well. But I mean, it's just, it feels like it's so obvious like the best date I've ever been almost probably with like the person I fell the most in love with. Like the first date that was like so casual it was a day date, Rayna's probably gonna roast me for this. but he loves the day day. You know, I like showed up. He was already eating because he was nervous. I was like, this is off to a terrible start. You know?

And it was like, should've been so bad, but you're sitting there with someone where you're like, Oh, this is the real deal. So it's like, yeah, as corny as it sounds, that's probably the best date where you leave it. And you're like, okay, this is it.

Probably the complexion for it though.

Yeah. All right. What's the worst date you've ever been on? Because I know you're going to have.

What's that? Thank you for asking.


Yeah. I have to go. I try to not look at any, like, so many of our listeners are like, I don't want to go on bad dates. It's like, at least you walk away with a story. So that's like the positive is that even if you're there, as long as you feel safe, if somebody's not bringing a little bit like crazy and an idiot, I'll stay. Oh, I got to see this through. The worst date I think I've been on was right when we started the podcast. I had met this guy at a bar a few nights ago and he had asked me out. So he'd met me before. This is not like an online date. We picked this dive bar to go to because they were supposed to have the best burgers. He said he'd never have them.

I was like, Oh, we've got to go there. That'll be such a fun date. He didn't confirm the date, the day of, and I was like this is already like kind of rude. I showed up, he was already there and he'd gotten himself a drink and it was pouring down rain. So I walked in, he got himself a drink and I walk up to the bar and I order a drink and it's all cash. And so I looked at him. This is a dive bar. The drinks were $6. And I looked at him because I thought maybe he would like buy me the drink and he was like, there's an ATM like down the street in the pour. to go get my own money and I was like I guess I'll just saddle up and stay

for the reins.

And you did, you went there and came back Oh, yeah, I went and got the cash

and we started the podcast Oh yeah, I went and got the cash And we started the podcast? We talked about this on the podcast we didn't have a see how to lose a girl one day

Because it's like that's for the beauty of what we did Because it's like that's for the beauty of what we do You just stay for the story Yeah I save the story I'm like I'll actually take the tap

Yeah I'll just save this But that's since the podcast started

not before the podcast But I've always done comedy I'm like it's always, like the best dates are, the worst dates are the best dates for the content.

For the stage, yeah.

So I'm like it's always cool to me and he just jumped right back into his story like no acknowledgement of like that's so neat that you're you know people are a fan of your work he just was like rude to start to finish and then he insisted that I split every single round at the bar with him and Ashley and I have mixed feelings about paying on dates when I don't want you to make it weird I don't think that anybody owes me money but I don't want you to be so rude to me especially again thanks for six dollars so yes he was rude he didn't ask questions I just didn't feel bad that's probably the worst date I've ever been on we never talked

again until yesterday they're actually back together he moved here with us am I is it probably like the voice the catfish voice I don't know okay I need to know this yeah so this I guess it just started this rule of me not going on a date it actually kind of stopped me getting on the apps probably this might have been one of the very last app dates I did I actually came back to New York from you know quarantine covid times I was at my parents house and when things felt safe enough and people were going out having like patio dates I was like on the streets like I was in like FEMA tents on the street having dates like I was like what is what are we doing out here you know that's like all you could do but I think people really wanted that connection they've been inside for so long so they were doing whatever it took I felt like it was a fun time to date it was like the people that were in New York were ready to be out there a lot of people like broken up in the pandemic. And so that, you know, late summer into the fall, and then it kind of shut down again in the winter of 2020 was like a dating time, but we were all just out on the literal streets. And so there were a few times where I was like, I can't do this anymore. I'm just like drinking sake out of a plastic cup. It's 30 degrees out. Like what is my life? I have a space heater by my feet. Like I can't in a tent. Like, you know, these little like structures that they built, but this one really set the tone for I'm not going out with strangers anymore that I haven't heard their voice. I haven't seen them walk and talk. And this guy, we had such good banter. Remember we were bantering all throughout the election, the election that lasted a week long before we got the results.

So we were texting all week and his banter was on point. He looked really cute as pictures. He was tall and had a job. And we, I was like, what's the catch here? Because if you're a woman who dates in New York City for quite some time, you know that there's going to be a catch. There just is, you know, like what's going to be wrong with this guy? And he walked up. We met on the street to walk to this bar. He looked just like his photos. I'm like, what's it going to be? When he spoke, it was the voice of Michael Jackson. It was the most soft, it was Michael Jackson.

I mean, it was the softest, most feminine, teeny tiny voice on a six six man. And I was like, there it is. So we go, we sit at this place. I've never felt so much like I was pulling teeth. Remember at one point we were talking about candles. I was like, I'm on a date talking about my favorite candle. Something has gone wrong here. He was telling me how he broke up with this girl. They had a pumpkin carving contest. I was like, this is insane. I actually went to the bathroom in the standard in the East Village and took like a sexy selfie in the mirror for myself. Like that's what the point that I was at that I needed to feel myself because I was on this terrible date and we had one drink and I insisted on splitting the bill just to let him know that he was in the friend zone and we never spoke of it.

That was it, it was just his voice. His whole energy. Oh, right, okay. I don't know that I coulda got past that voice but I can get past a not great voice but the energy was completely off. Like I was, it was not it. And that's kind of, we can talk today about whatever you want, but like when people always ask us about app dating versus meeting people in the wild and that's one of the reasons it doesn't work because you don't have a vibe for a person. You haven't seen how they interact in the world, how they walk, how they talk. If you're attracted to the way they smell or their posture, little things like that you don't know through photos on an app.

So that was a prime example. Like I can, in a tent. It's like, you know, like, in a... It was my...

I mean, it was me tiny voice on a six sandal. It was just his voice. Oh, right, okay.

Yeah, we really support online dating and not everybody has the option to be out all the time. If we do, and Ashley's in comedy clubs, she's a comedian, you know, not everybody has the option to do that, but we really encourage people to push themselves to be out into the world as much as they can and make eye contact with somebody at a bar that you think is cute. Ask questions, say yes to everything. If you're the kind of person that's like, I'm single, I don't want to be, then put yourself in situations to meet people. And I've had really good luck just meeting people in the wild. Everybody I've ever dated, it's been somebody I've met in the wild. I've gone on like two dating app dates in my life. It's just not for me. I get fatigued shopping for people. People are like, how was your day? And I'm like, oh, I don't care about this. So I just encourage people to like, just get out more.

Even if that means like, typically you work inside your home all day long, go work at a coffee shop. I worked at Intelligentsia Coffee on Sunday morning and I like met so many people. And it's just, it's not easy for everybody and you to put yourself out there. But if your pain point is I'm single and I don't want to be, then you have to put yourself in situations to not be.

You know?

The option of Seattle. Of course, of course. I don't care about this. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I haven't dated for, and I don't need to, obviously. I'm married just.

I don't, I don't, I haven't dated. I don't, you're like,

I'm taking a break right now. You're like I'm taking a break right now. You're like, I'm taking a break right now

from dating. I yeah, no that's what I was just clarifying. I haven't dated for 14 years. Wow! Because I was a monk for three years and I got married to my wife. Well no, I started dating my wife 10 years ago. There's days when I dated 10 years ago. It's 10 years ago but apps weren't a thing when I started dating. So we met through my sister who happened to be our wing person. She's like really close friends with my wife now. She was friends with her before and she's one of my best friends too. So she did the work.

But I always wonder, the closest experience I've had to it is trying to recruit during the pandemic. So when I was hiring people and doing interviews over Zoom or interviews over the phone, I was just like, wow, I'm getting no energy from this person, like I'm not understanding. It's impossible to tell. Someone could have the best energy, but through Zoom you could never tell. And so that's the closest I can relate to that. But I'm intrigued by what you're saying because you're saying go to places, everyone has that one friend who's always trying to set them up. Do you have that one friend, both of you?

I feel like all of our friends, if they knew like an awesome guy, they would date that person. But we do ask our friends, we've talked about this a lot on the podcast, like telling your friends I would like to be set up and like letting them know, I'd like you to think of me for this. Because not everybody thinks that you want that, and they, some people think it might be insulting to suggest that.

And Venus like an awesome.. Well, we did a whole episode on it because it's such an art form to setting people up. And what we hate the most is like, you're single, they're single, you guys should be together, it's an insult. It's like, what does that even mean? Like just two people existing in the world, they're gonna match. So I think that it's nice when you have friends that actually think about who you are as a person, who they have that might be a fit. But I don't know, you know, it's funny because I love that your sister set you and your wife up. My brother did kind of set me up with somebody and we went on a few dates and it was great while it was. And we're still fine, but it was, had it worked out, I would have loved that story, that someone that's so close to me set me up with his, essentially his best friend's brother-in-law, you know, it was that kind of thing. He knew where I was from, we knew the same people. So when people like that are really close to you and really get you, I think those are the best type of people to set you up. But like Reina said, I mean, there's also people that have no idea that you're looking or you'd be into it.

So I don't think there's anything wrong with telling everybody you know, that I'm wanting to be set up. If you know anybody,

why not make, you know, shoot your shot or we'd be in touch? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Should we throw it out right now in the show? If anyone's watching,

what should we tell them? Yeah.

I'm trying to date Dave Batista. Okay, okay. Dave, if you listen to the show. He might! If I don't know he might, who knows. If anyone knows Dave. Okay, can I go? Yeah, this is for both of you. Wait, put whatever one first. So this is not what you need to do. What do you want? Who is it?

What do you want? What are you looking for?

And then what do you bring into the game? I don't know or you might. Who knows? If anyone knows Dave. Wait, can I go? Yeah, this is for both of you. What do you want?

So this is what I want you to do. I'm going to manifest Dave Batista. I like a big guy that's bald with a beard

and a lot of the origin stories. Basically ready to start hooking up with the security guards at our shows and that became her type.

One security guard, okay, he's really big. At your own shows. Yeah, I mean, if they can protect the stage, you know, I'm going to pay them back. And so I like guys with tattoo sleeves, something that can make me laugh. We always talk about like ranking what you want in a person. Looks are my number one. No, I'm just kidding.

Somebody maybe are big. At your own shows. I was nodding along.

I was like, yeah, bald? Back in Australia, yes. Okay, I think my number one is somebody that I'm just inspired by the way you live your life. So whatever that is, I want to be excited to hear about your day. I want to be like that is dope what you have going on. So whatever that is, that's my number one thing, I think. And I want to like laugh. I want to be, I want to be inspired by the people you surround yourself with. what you do all day long, so that, but if you're bald to the beard and tattoos lose, also if you're new to YouTube. And your name's Dave. Yeah. Yeah.

That's what I do.

Miles Teller, if you're listening. Okay. Okay. And your name's Dave. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay.

We've got a few Marv Teller fans in the office too, so. I love a Philly guy. Um, yeah. Go birds. Yeah, yeah. Um, I mean, I want somebody that the same things I always say I want to look up to someone in some way. Again, like I don't need to be inspired every day, but I wanna be able to learn something from you and be challenged and entertained because I really have such a full life. So I need someone to enhance some of life that's already very fulfilling and someone that lets me be me, you know, we do this. I do stand up comedy, we're really successful. It can be intimidating, I guess, but I just don't ever wanna feel like I need to minimize myself or be a lesser version of myself or tone down my personality or not share my successes with somebody. So that's kind of what I'm looking for. Myles is like...

Myles, are you good at it?

Also if you like were a top gun or whatever, I don't know. You're trying to date Tom. Ashley said this thing really early on in the podcast. I think you said it, I didn't say it. That, you know, you wanna find somebody that feels like home and that's like really what I want is somebody that's just like, I'm so comfortable with you. You just, being with you, I can just exactly be myself. And like you said, I don't have to like shrink myself, make myself smaller. I'm humble, but I wanna be able to hype myself and how hard I work. I don't come from anything. I don't come from money. So everything that Ashley and I have, we built ourselves. So I wanna be able to hype myself and I wanna come home until like comfort that you're there.

I want you to be my first con. I wanna know if I can like lean on you. I have a large list, but you know what? I know. It's good!

Should I get my list down to have it on the iPhone?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's good. I want you to do it. Should I get my list down to have it on the iPhone? Also, I went to my motorcycle, tattoos, all the things. But those are surface level.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But those are surface level. but I also expect and I will bring a lot to the table. I think that, you know, sometimes you hear people being like, I want this and this and this, and it's like, okay, but do you bring a lot to the table also

or in your part to your part?

That's what I was gonna question, yeah. And so, I think I do and I think that I'm like a really caring, loving person, I'm fun. Ashley and I have so many friends. Like, oh my God, to you so many friends.

And yeah, I think your life would be good. I think your life would be good. What do you bring to the table? What don't I bring to the table?

What don't I bring to the table, honestly. I don't want children and marriage, I could take it or leave it, especially because I don't want children. I think that is a big, not everybody's reason, but a reason why I think people should get married if they want to. I want someone that just wants to live a fun life that's not too dependent on me. We can support each other. There's no codependency or fixer-upper type of situation. I want someone that's kind of already fully formed that's living their own independent life that we can come together and live that life together. I have an awesome life. I think that it's really fun to talk to us, to be around us, to come see us perform if you want to, to travel the world, to do all these things. I am also a caring, nurturing person, a good listener, and I can make you laugh. I have a great family. People really just want to be around me for my family quite honestly, that's a big part of it.

It's a huge selling point. I have a new nephew named Jay. So that's my favorite name. But yeah, I think I bring a lot to the table. I think I'll be a really great partner. And I think that I have gotten to a point where I am a much better partner than I would have been five years ago. I mean, 10 years ago, of course, but just even what we've been able to learn in the podcast and about ourselves and how to be a good partner and the things that you look look back on, again, five, 10 years ago, three years ago, last year, and you were like, that's not the sign of a healthy relationship or that's not how to be a supportive partner. This is when you're feeling competitive with your partner, you're not on the same team, there's contempt, there's jealousy, all these different things. And so I feel as though I'm in such a great place to be a much better partner than I have been in the past. And that is something that I want this year. And we talked about it on our episode, the first episode of the year and what our goals are and that's really what I'm manifesting, and I haven't really said that before. It's been very, like last year, it was like I wanna have more sex actually, and then I actually did.

Like, before that it was like, I just don't feel like I have room right now in my life for somebody, everything feels pretty full. It's like at capacity and I don't really wanna be bothered and so I do feel like I'm at a place that even though we are super busy and I do feel quote unquote full, I couldn't make the space for somebody.

And enjoy my life- I love how self-aware those answers are. And it's beautiful to have that, right? I think so often we ask someone in our lives, like, oh, well, what are you bringing to the table? And it's kind of a hard question to answer for a lot of people. People struggle with that because it's not what we've been trained to believe. Like we've been trained to believe you should know what you want in someone, but not what you bring. And so I love hearing both your answers. And I hope that we've just manifested what you both want here on this show right now. So if Miles or Dave ever call, like I want the story. James Here's the question. Because I think today, we're living at a time where everyone's having varying degrees of success in their own way. You're seeing more people, experience fame.

You're seeing more people experience success. You're seeing more people experience financial stability. You just have a lot more people having a lot more variety of experiences in this way. Have you found it harder to date as you become more successful? Yeah. And yeah, exactly, and so I want to know what are the kind of troubles you've been having this time around, and is there a part of you that's like, ah, let one go away earlier

and I shouldn't have. Yeah.

I mean, I feel like a lot of people say to us, are men intimidated by my success, by the money I make, and to those people I say, what's the alternative? You know, you're gonna be less successful because maybe you'll get a partner, you're gonna make less money because perhaps somebody will end up with you. That's not the answer to this. Yes, of course, as a woman, it's the inverse. Like men make more money, they become more successful. Everybody wants you. Women, your dating opportunities do not grow

in tandem the way a man's probably would. Right, so it's more that way. It's more the fact that it's intimidating as opposed to people wanting to take advantage or use your network and connect.

I think that your dating pool just shrinks, you know? And you don't wanna put yourself in situations where you're competitive with your partner in a negative way, where your success emasculates somebody. You're constantly thinking, is my success emasculating this person? But I just, I think your pool gets smaller for sure, but that doesn't mean I would ever stop what I'm doing. You know, what's the alternative? And I have to be conscious about how I speak about my life, how I speak about money we make, success we have, but I'm not gonna pretend it doesn't exist either.

I just have to be mindful to be humble. Right. And have you seen people be turned off if they don't know who you are and then you're on a date

and then they figure it out or? I turned off someyoungasses the other day if like we would talk about what we do on a first date. I would say the name the podcast, I wouldn't be like, it's one of the number one dating. English podcast in the United States. I wouldn't stileve with that, but not turned off,

people are usually excited. Or maybe they're turned off. And that's why it doesn't work out. They don't say to your face, maybe.

They don't say to your face, maybe. I mean, one person one time said to me, you're too public for me. I would never date somebody like you. And it really hurt. I remember leaving the date and like crying on the street. Like really hurt my feelings. But that's okay. That's not my person and that's fine. And you know, listen, we all bring baggage to your relationship. That's my baggage.

I think that, you know, we love this special from Ali Wong where she talks about specifically women in comedy. Like the way you're a woman on stage, you're talking about sex. Like your dating pool is shrinking. A man on stage with a microphone, his dating pool is growing as he speaks, you know? So it's really the inverse. And that special spoke to me like nothing else in my life and as a female comedian. But I also just think part of it's the bar gets higher. When your life gets more dope, you know, it's like, you got to bring more. You know, we have this friend of her, this friend of ours, she's so funny, Marie Foster, and she's a comedian. She did this just random reel or TikTok one time. She was like, if I'm single at 40, the bar is so much higher. Cause at this point I've been with myself.

And so I'm happy in my life where it is now. And that may not speak to everybody, but it does feel like Rain and I have achieved our true dream life. We feel as though we have such a purpose and we're able to help people every day. And the emails we get are such an honor and we get to tour the world and make people laugh. And it's so good as it is. So it would really be someone that is going to enhance any of that to fit in our life. And I don't say that in like, we're so picky, the bar is so high, but it just is more. I get it. So those two things together and yeah, I mean, and it's just, you know, the way the world it's just you're a woman, you're like, you get older and just as sad as it is,

that your dating pool shrinks in that way too, you know? No, no, no, no, you get it.

That's taken a crock. So I think that being in love is the best feeling in the world and I miss it and I love being in love, but also one of the best feelings in the world is like any email that somebody sends to us that says like you helped me to Make my life better. You help me to do anything. Ask or raise leave an abusive relationship Strengthen a relationship. I didn't want to lose Talk to my mother and a better like I get choked up when I think about the things people have said to us like your voices Have filled my homes with sound when like my pet died I get like so emotional like I know that we have changed people's lives You've touched people in such a deep way and I can't imagine anything feeling better than that So in the interim while I'm single why don't have anybody you just have to make your life good So maybe you don't have a giant podcast you can reach all these people But like you can go make friends go find hobbies Go find other ways to give your life meaning and joy and that's what you do when you're single And then when you find somebody like how dope is it that you're like a great person now? Yeah

Yeah, no, I loved that it's coming across very strong. I don't think Listening to both of you The reason why I've been going down this question trail is because I'm hoping that everyone who's listening and watching is going, oh yeah, I can aspire for that. That's the point. Everyone can aspire for that to feel whole, to feel complete, to feel like their life's so awesome that someone's got to bring some value to really get in on it. What a great place to be. That's the biggest achievement of all. Regardless of all the other success that you've had, which is phenomenal in and of itself, I think it's amazing to think that you're sitting here expressing confidence at a level that you don't always experience, even from people who've made it, right? So it's amazing, honestly. I'm telling you that sitting opposite you right now, I'm like, wow, it's incredible to feel, yeah, my life's dope, my life's amazing, and someone's going to add value to it. What are some of the mistakes that you think people make early on while they're dating someone, especially when it comes to that self-worth, self-esteem piece? Because I think you're coming at it from this. We've been working on ourselves.

But often we find it's the opposite where people dive into relationships when they're lonely, when they want to be dependent on someone, when they feel that they're inadequate.

That's why they're alone. So what are some of the mistakes you've seen people make early on? Just not working on the fear of being alone and loneliness. I guess those can be two different things. So you enter into a relationship with such a desperate need to have someone fill a gap or make you feel worthy or make you feel value. And so those are big things. Those just require a lot of work, but they trickle down and did the way that you act and the way that you feel so desperate if you don't get that text back or that someone doesn't like you. And one of the things that I can't stop thinking about that I was listening to you with a recent guest that you had on Humble The Poet, And I'm sure you've talked about this before, is going into situations I think then do this a little bit more of the women, but I think women do it too, just wanting them to like you and not even thinking about if you like them or if they would be a good match for you. So you've come down this road of like, you've tried so hard to feel wanted, to feel desired and not rejected that you haven't even stopped to think if the person would be a good partner or if you even like them.

So even like them. And how do you avoid that when someone is telling you stuff Like, oh, my God, you're beautiful. Like, you're so smart, you're so intelligent, like, how do you avoid kind of enjoying that? Even what we're talking about earlier. Like, when you were saying that you wanna be in a place where you feel like home and I loved that definition of like, a home love or, you know, it's, I think that's a feeling everyone wants but it's hard because when we walk into a dating scenario, most of the time, we're trying to impress each other. We dress our best, we look our best. Like, that's not really comfortable because, you know, that in the sense of you don't look like that all the time the time where you wouldn't set yourself up like that all the time, so how do you even – A, how do you deal with someone who is actually validating you and it feels good? And inversely, the other side, how do you make sure that you are actually finding out

whether you're comfortable with someone at what stage? So I think that we should be allowed to enjoy things, right? You don't have to go into every day being like, are they love bombing me? Is this too much? Is this not enough? What was the exact amount of time they spent before they texted me? I think we are allowed to just enjoy things sometimes and take it one date at a time, one moment at a time. I think that in order to sidestep putting so many eggs in this basket essentially and making this so important, we should do what I was saying before, just build out a life around yourself. So you have friends, you have hobbies, you like what you do for work so that this one person isn't so – you don't depend on them so much to be your whole world. It's not so – this date's not so important. Every day, it should just be fun. I like it.

And you should enjoy yourself and hopefully you have other stuff to fall back on. You have other plans this weekend, other things you can sink your teeth into. And it just doesn't mean so much. Every single thing is not riding on this date. And I think that we should be cautiously optimistic but also not so hard on ourselves when somebody lies to us or manipulates us because you shouldn't spend every interaction going, where's all the holes in this? We should just be able to be calm and enjoy it and we shouldn't assume every person is going to lie to us, manipulate us, ghost us, cheat on us, all these things. And if they do, that's just the kind of person they are. And isn't it nice that they went away and you know that now sooner? You know?

Do it oftentimes. Fun.

And you should enjoy yourself sooner. I like it now. So if someone's going to ghost you, why would you want someone like that in your life that can do that to somebody? But I had a friend that said to me once, this may not look like what you thought it was going to look like because we have these unrealistic views of dating and relationships in the first place. And so I think that feeling, you've talked about the spark, we've talked with the spark, we've had guests on, but the spark, the butterflies, all that stuff is actually just anxiety. And so I think an unhealthy amount of nerves, of course. I mean, I rarely ever get nervous about anything and I'll be nervous before first date, so it's not that but it's that feeling that actually is just anxiety. When the feeling of someone that is probably a good partner for you, that's like a solid, cure person is really comfortable and like kind of boring in your body. Like I would just always say you just need to listen to your body. I think we always know if we're willing to listen of like the way someone makes you feel when you're in their presence. And then when you leave their presence, like I always tap, I always really want to hone in on how I feel when I outweighs with somebody. Do I feel this like sense of anxiety?

Like what am I going to hear from the next or is this like cough like, I'm sure I absolutely will we're going to go out again and I guess it's great. It's like the when you say goodbye. What is the immediate feeling? Is it like anxiety or is it like? Chill. Yeah, you know

Yeah, you know What in your friends that are in happy healthy relationships around you like what are some of the things that you've seen in there? So you're like, oh, that's that's really special. That's great. Like what are some of the good signs?

No, I just I mean I when they have fun together I really just I we have our I'm thinking of the couple that they're big fans of yours also and I'm Sean and Anushka and just They work really well together they're a team they do all the things they have great communication yada yada But they just seem like buddies like they just really have fun Together and I think that's also the main thing of rain and ice relationship And you're just you're on the same team like we talked about this on our upcoming episode is that you don't feel like I Literally picture it like whatever sport you're into where are you playing against each other or you on the same team with a common goal?

Yeah, I rarely see somebody break up that I'm like what You know like I think about my brother and his wife and they've been together for like 12 years. They're just they're friends They really enjoy each other. They are really fun to be around are always joking around They're really like loving the same couple that you're talking about same thing another one of Like Ashley's other and best friend and her husband. They're just are nice of you see a friendship and I respect between them My best friend just got engaged and I her fiance really has her on this like great pedestal He really looks up to her He thinks that she is just so wonderful and she thinks he's so wonderful and I listen to how couples speak about each other a lot when they're not around the other person also and Are you proud of your partner? Are you excited to do the stuff that they want to do? So we, I think are fortunate to have a lot of really good examples around us of positive relationships. And I always encourage people when you're like, was what's going on with me normal to look at people whose relationships you admire and say like, what do I emulate from that? You know, and it's important to surround yourself with people that have good relationships with everybody, not just their romantic partner,

but friends and family as well when they're not. Yeah. I like that nuance, that's a really subtle idea of how people talk about each other when they are the person's not around and when the person is around too, like both of that. If you saw me and my wife together, you think we hate each other, because we banter so much because it's such a, I feel at least it's a very British thing because me and my friends do this too, like, we will lay into each other and the more you can lay into each other, the more in love you are. And so I deal with my guy friends, do my wife and my wife started by the way. It was not my idea, so it's not something I came up with but literally she sets the tone if you she's around me She'll find a way to to pick some flow out in the most hilarious way in a funny way. Yeah

In a funny way, yeah Between healthy banter and roasting and I love that too and nagging Trying to make someone look bad. Totally. Yeah. Yeah

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah totally totally yeah, yeah and passive-aggression So cringe to be around So cringe to be around those couple. Yeah, yeah when they're talking to each other in the third person

Yeah, yeah. Oh my god, and they bring up their therapist. I'm like how fast can I exit this room?

What what's your take on? Friends becoming lovers and lovers staying friends after they break up so both way around

Um, we get asked a lot and like can can your friend turn into your lover? And can your lover go back to be here? Yeah, I don't know which one I want to take first I mean, I feel like can you can you can you be lovers and then friends? I guess it depends on how the relationship ended I guess it depends how much time goes by what happened one of my best friends in the world him and I slept together for like Maybe six weeks when we first met and ending it was really painful for me Cuz he basically was like he was like I don't want this he was like I don't want to date anybody It feels like this is where it's heading. I'm just telling you right now. You're not gonna like what happens I don't I don't want to be in a relationship with you and it hurt a lot in the moment but the honesty and Sticking to that is actually what has allowed me to be the state friends with him because he didn't disrespect me He looked at me in the face and he said I don't want to be in a relationship And then it was probably a little weird and painful for like six months It hurt to see him with another girl. I didn't really want to hear about it. If he was dating somebody, it hurt. But with enough time, I was like, I find value in this. I really like this person. And he really, truly is one of the most important people in my life. He took our podcast photos when we first started.

He is such an acts of service, love language person. He's so wonderful. So with enough time, if you really want, and if you feel, I think, respected in the ending of it, I think you can be. But it depends on what happens in the relationship. If I'm dating somebody and they say to me, yeah, my ex and I are best friends. I don't know that I love it. It depends on the circumstances.

I know. It's one of these things if there are no hard and fast rules, and we don't really trust people that say that there are. You can't be friends with an ex. You can never date your friend. Shut up. But yes, you can. So I think it's all case by case basis, but I think of friends that end up in a relationship could be really beautiful. I think it can totally work. I think it's, again, not a hot take, it goes out saying that you could ruin the friendship, but you'd be willing to take the risk. I'm thinking of Love is Blind, Deep D and Kyle. Oh, Deep D and Kyle. That was so upsetting.

We love that show. But that I think kind of like, you know, the friendship can really get ruined, but it can really be really beautiful too. My thing with that, I always think you should think about what it would actually look like if you dated this person. I have a guy friend that, and this was not anytime recent, but where we connected so much if we were in the room, you could feel it. It was palpable. It was just like, how could they not date? You know, like everybody saw it. Everybody could feel it. I could feel it. And the chemistry and we just felt like a perfect match. But and like, I knew that too. And I found him super attractive, but I couldn't picture dating him.

I couldn't picture being like at home with him or something. You know what I'm probably vice versa. I took a realistic look at it because you get to that place where you're like, should we try and maybe or maybe not. And I think it's really, you have to be realistic with yourself of like, can I actually see them as a romantic partner? And then staying friends with X that is really also can totally work or not. And it's so much about the feelings that each person has. I have an x that I wish I could be friends with. I could absolutely be friends with him. I think he's the best person. I think he's so funny. and I don't think he could. And I have set a lot of boundaries with him because I just don't think it would be healthy for him without saying much more.

So it's like, I absolutely could. We could text, we could be buddies, have them on the podcast, but I don't think it'll be healthy for him, knowing what I know a lot about the way our relationship ended in his past and things like that. And I think it's so fun to be friends with somebody that you casually dated. A guy that I casually dated for a month, two months right before the pandemic. We text all the time. He has a girlfriend. Sure, she doesn't care. I don't know if he told her or not. But like joke around and I'll be, you know, it's, it's like a funny relationship. I find those relationships like just kind of weirdly special.

I like those. Oh, do you feel it? I can feel it.

I can't imagine.

Probably vice versa. I like those. Yeah. I want to try something. We've never done this before. So Reina, imagine if you were breaking up with Ashley. I want you to try to do the best script of what you'd like to hear if someone's breaking up with you. So you're going to be the person who's breaking up. Ashley is going to be the person who's being broken up with. Okay. And I want you to deliver what you'd like to hear if someone's breaking up with you. So you've been kind of dating for like three to six months.

Okay, three to six months. Yeah. I want to hear. Yeah. Oh my God.

I did my last break. Actually, you responded how you respond.

Okay. I have to break up with you. Oh my God. Here goes my bank account.

No, no, not as you guys. As if you're dating.

Yeah, not as you. I feel like this relationship has run its course and I feel like you already messed up because you need to start with your so- It is so you that I've already messed up. I have one sentence into this. We already know. But you break up with me.

I'll break in with myself. It is so you that I've already messed up. You need to start it, with you're the funniest, coolest, no that's the hottest,

the. Time-to-zone-less. highest girl I've ever met. But I'm breaking up with me. Thank you. Thank thank you.

Compliments first. You want to hear compliments

before someone says our relationship's right or wrong? Just like, if you just started and say, I'm like funny and hot, like it will be better.

It's just better. It will lessen the blow. I don't care if it's funnier and hotter. I wouldn't be breaking up with you. Ha ha ha. That's all I've heard, and I'm just like that sounds chill.

You know?

I don't care if it's funnier and hotter, I would. That's relatable.

Yeah, I can relate. I don't know. The last breakup I did, I tried to keep it as vague as possible. I said, I think this relationship is right as chorus. I think we want different things in life. Like I want to be successful and you don't? No, that was you. No, I said I think we want different things in life. I think we expect different things out of life. And I said I still love you and care about you. I think you're a wonderful person. You're all the things, you're smart and funny.

But I think this has run its course. I've used that line before in like a couple of backups. I recycle that line, but there's a couple of things in breakups. I don't want somebody to walk away being completely confused. Ash and I talked about that in my last breakup because I was like, what if I said this? And she was like, you don't want to like have him walk away thinking he did something he didn't. and I agree with that, but I also don't need to like burn it to the ground and be like, this is wrong and this is wrong and this is wrong you know, like, I also don't need to make you feel terrible.

Sometimes like some vagueness is okay. Wow, that's the thing that we say when people are begging for closure. It's like, do you want to hear the really bad stuff? You know and I think that's one of the best things that we've learned throughout the years, doing what we do is sometimes it's just that you're not it, you know, you're not the one. And it can boil down to some things you may not want to hear. And I think it's good to reflect on yourself too. Like how many times have you been with somebody that just wasn't the person and you couldn't necessarily put your finger on it. And then if you did, it would come across sounding pretty harsh. So I think it's always good to put yourself on the other side of it too. Like I'm not so undesirable. I have dated people that were great and then we had to end it too. So I mean, I would hate to be broken up with and totally heartbroken was somebody that I loved and then I saw a future with, but I know that I would be okay.

And I can't be, knowing what I know now, I would just have to take it pretty easily because sometimes it just doesn't work out. So that's kind of the thing too when people are just, they're so obsessed with that closure conversation. And I do think you should have closure,

but to what extent. Well, some people wanna have a third breakup conversation, a fourth breakup conversation, right? You've had the breakup conversation, but they wanna keep understanding and sometimes we're that person or sometimes that person's doing it to us and you're saying actually you're not gonna achieve much from that extension of conversation.

It depends where you are and why it ended. It's just, I don't know that I need to give you a declaration of hate. It's just I don't see myself marrying you, I don't need to tell you I don't respect the way you live your life. I think it's fine to break up, take some time to marinate and then really want that closure conversation six months later or something cause you really can be a little more honest, Tensions are lower, but I'm not gonna keep unpacking the breakup. I think sometimes, so I was engaged to somebody. We broke up, and we didn't really have any other comp, we broke up the day after my engagement party, and we never spoke again for three and a half years. And three and a half years later, Ashley and I had started the podcast, so about two months after we started the podcast, through a series of things that happened, I ended up talking to him, and he asked me to go out to dinner, and we had this like, six hour long all night closure conversation. He said, you know I've thought about you every day for four years, and I've never really gotten over this, and I hate what I did to you, and I'm so sorry. It was a nice moment, it was a nice moment to have it, but I appreciate it and helped me to walk away from some anger and some things I really was still hanging on to, but I didn't need it. It was nice to have it. Sometimes that feels really good, but I, you have to learn to like go to therapy and read books and listen to podcasts, and thankfully today there is so much out there like your show, like our show and people can listen to and hopefully find some peace.


So the dream is that you're consistently doing relationship check-ins if you need them. And you know where you stand and where they stand. And so like you're a woman, for example, and you just get blindsided, broke up with out of the blue. And he's like, you did, you do this, you do that. And you're like, why didn't you tell me when those things were happening? Because feedback is important. Again, I don't think you should beat down someone's door for this closure and tell me everything that's wrong with me. But like, it is nice to know. So perhaps you can be better in the next relationship if it's something that was actually valid. So I just think there is a happy medium, unhappy medium, I guess would be the better word. But again, it's sometimes it just boils down to this, isn't it? And I think you're a lovely person and a little bit.

You're doing it, you're doing it wrong. Do you think the people, do you think being blindsided is a real thing? Sometimes when people, I'll qualify this, when people say like, he blindsided me. And I'm like, this person just woke up, walked in a room and say goodbye. Like, I don't know. And I'm sure that does happen. But do you think it happens as often

as people say that it does? That's a great question. I mean, I'd love to look at the research behind it. But from what I've experienced, I definitely can say that I think people are blindsided to the degree that people might not be saying much before they do something like that. But I'd say that if you were... and I don't mean same with you, I don't mean like interrogating and investigating and having a private investigative club or anything like that. But I think if you're reading the signs of like how close someone is, how distant someone is, like how engaged they are in conversation, like how often you're actually connecting. Like, I think you can tell. But I think often we think things are great because they look great in our heads. But we're not really looking at what am I actually feeling? What am I experiencing from this person? But I do think people do have that complete, I mean, I literally spoke to someone a couple of months ago and it was like, they'd been married for 20 years and then their partner told them that they don't think they were right for each other anymore and that they felt that way for a long time.

Now that's insanely tough, right? Like that's so difficult. And so yeah, if I was with someone for 20 years, I would feel blindsided because 20 years is a long time. But often people are quiet. I do find that a lot of people are like silent or quiet or distant before a breakup. It's not like they're telling you they love you right now and then to watch, well, maybe actually, I take that back.

That's happened to people too. Every once in a while, you'll have a conversation and then it's, couldn't you believe it? We were perfect. And then you dig a little deeper and they're like, well, actually, there's this one thing that happened in Miami and you're like, oh my God, that huge red flag. Like why didn't you, couldn't, you couldn't feel that something was off then, and when you said you might just think it's perfect or you're just trying not to, You're trying to not be honest with yourself, Like you're trying not to see the signs. Like wanting it to be so perfect

that you don't pick up on those things. And you dig and you're like why? And you're like why? Why do you think you're trying to sell? Yeah. What are some of the common red flags you think people miss? Like what are the ones that you think, people actually miss them completely. Like this is a good example of one where you think you're blindsided but you're not really because there are hidden messages there. What are some of those other ones

that you think we just don't recognize? I mean a lot of signs and narcissism. I think that the charming thing You know, just, I think you had Dr. Ramani on, maybe. Yeah, yeah. Like, that word is always in my head because it's such a positive compliment. And of course it doesn't have to be bad, but the overly charming, you feel like a connection, like you're the only woman in the room when you're talking to him. It's like, I don't know, that might not be good.

So, you know, of people. It's so hard though, isn't it? Because that's what we all want to some degree, isn't it? Like, isn't that the feeling that we want to be made to fill that? Or no, you're saying, we should never want to feel that even with the person we love. It's hard. It's hard, right.

Because she described, it's hard. Yeah, it's hard, right, it's hard. Because she described a narcissist and I was like, that's all, it's got a license. Yeah, because I was like, if they try to take you on a trip within 10 days of the meeting, when I was like, that sounds great.


Like, because I don't know, I don't know if, it's like, everyone feel like that they met. So yeah, it's, it can be tough to decipher. I mean, I think just general bad behavior. If someone doesn't do what they say they're going to do, they don't show up, they bail on you. They just immediately, someone does not show up, they don't respond to you or whatever it is and you don't pay attention. I think you can only blame yourself when that actually turns out to be the demise of a relationship because it was there at the beginning.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mine's going the other way. We used to text each other all the time and now we've been married for seven years. You don't talk anymore?

We had a guest on and we talked about different texting styles and I would say it was one of the most impactful episodes we did of 2022. It really helped reframe in my mind that not everybody is like me. When I like somebody, I want to talk to them more and it just really put into perspective that people have completely different communication styles even when it comes to text and I think it's helpful to remember. It doesn't mean someone doesn't like you, but days later they haven't returned your text, I think that's a pretty clear sign that you're not top of mind and a priority, or it could even be purposeful, which is even worse. What are you trying to say? They're trying to put you in your place. She doesn't want to be here anymore.

Yeah. Yeah. What are you trying to say? They're trying to put you in your place. She doesn't want to be here anymore. Yeah. Exactly. At the very very beginning stages it is a lot of fun. I like finding someone that really is engaging and makes me laugh. I do not pause to think that often, can this person be a good long term partner? And I think there is a good balance. There is a hard balance to strike because I don't want to interview somebody to be my husband on the first or second date either because that is not fair to another person.

But I think what you can do at least is look at somebody's lifestyle and what they do just day to day, from work, and how they travel, do they have friends and say, Is this a lifestyle I can enjoy long term? If somebody went on a date with me and they were like, I really want somebody home seven nights a week, I want somebody that's gonna have dinner with me seven nights a week, I don't want their career necessarily to be primary in their life, I want my career to be primary in our lives. I'm probably not your girl.

That's not installment. And that's not installment. I wish people were that clear though, as well. At least that would make it really clear for someone like me. Yeah, I wish everybody was more clear. Yeah, exactly. That would just be a dream if someone said that.

It makes so much sense. I wish everybody was more clear. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, what a dream. Yeah, it'd be amazing. I wish we could all just like interview perfectly on a first date, but I have leaned into situations because they feel good because I find somebody that's really nice and I feel really connected with them on like an intimate level. I sometimes stop, don't stop to think like, what does this look like in six months? Can we live the same type of life? Am I going to be proud of this person? Am I, do I like the kind of family they have, their friends? So I get caught up in the beginning stages because I said this in the podcast on our show recently, my mom didn't raise me to like find, find a husband, find somebody to pay me your bills. My mom was like, you be the person that pays the bills.

You be the person who's successful which I love and she's so empowering, but no one ever told me like when you go on a first date, you should date because you want to date these people long term. So those are some pitfalls for me. I sometimes don't pause to think, you know, what does this look like in a year?

Great question. You be the person who's successful, which I love. Yeah, yeah, that's a great shot. Thank you for that. I want to dive into a couple of more personal things before we wrap up. Actually, you were saying that for you, you decided you didn't want to have children. How have you tackled explaining that to potential partners, to your own family? How has the reaction been? Because I always feel like when we make things that break a traditional pattern, it's a big thing to say, I don't want to do this. And it shouldn't be a big thing, but it is seen as a big thing. Even for us, we've been together for seven years and in our community, it's like, that's a long time to be together and not have kids yet. And so it's even that, even if the conversation's still open, so I guess I'm interested in that because I think there are so many people who are listening and watching who are changing the way relationships look, who are changing the love looks, who are changing the way what matters to them looks.

I want to hear from you. How did you come to that conclusion yourself, whatever your comfortable sharing and then how did you share that with the people in your life that matter?

It's been, I've never just just, I've never wanted children. We did a whole episode on this. It took me months to feel comfortable even doing it because I wanted to approach it very sensitively to women who are struggling to have children or that are struggling with the decision and I don't wanna be flippant about it. Like, oh, it's no big deal. Like, I just don't want them and that's what it is. Because I actually feel, I see so many women, especially as they get older into their 30s, 40s that like don't know, I don't really have to think about it. And so I've always felt that way in my adult life, maybe when I was a kid or in college, I was like, of course I'll get married and have kids. You just don't know any better. And then I slowly started to realize as I became an adult, it's something I don't want. I can't picture it on any level, any part of it. And like, oh, my family, again, it's just one of those, I'm lucky that they just support me and don't expect me to live a traditional life they never have. So glad that my brother is chosen to have children.

I have a brand new baby nephew named Jay and more to come hopefully. So they're gonna get their grandkids, but I've never felt an ounce of pressure from them to do anything besides be myself. And luckily I have achieved success and I can show them letting me fly was not for nothing. So that's never been an issue. I think I just am a confident person and I am steadfast in my decisions. No one ever really throws me shade or makes me feel uncomfortable about it. And maybe I just don't pay attention because I don't care, you know, like those little slights of like, well, you might change your mind. It's like, oh my God, shut up. You know, when people put those things on you, that's because it's they're feeling some sort of way that you've chosen to make a decision that they haven't. So I don't let those things bother me. I just know it's a decision that's right for me and I don't feel like it's a big deal, you know? So it's like, that just makes it me easier to flow through the world with this decision.

But I feel for people that are struggling with it whatever it may be. And those are just conversations that you have to open communication and conversations you have to have. We're so lucky to have so many different resources today with podcasts, internet books, how to even the language to use when it comes to this type of thing. You can sit and rehearse it if you need to. Potential partners, again, it's just something that I feel comfortable sharing. I wouldn't want to get down a road with somebody where I felt like things were getting serious and hadn't come up because I wouldn't even probably start to date somebody if I knew they really wanted a family. So that's been, it was like a fear of mine that I would find somebody that I really fell for that really wanted a family and it hasn't happened yet. And I've dated guys that either didn't want children as well or could go either way. And it wasn't really something that was so important to them. So I am fine if it comes up date one, it comes out sometimes if it's in a conversation. It's part of my, someone tried to insult me once saying it was part of my personality at this point. Yeah, it is.

So it's like, it comes up and if I'm asked, I'm open about it. So I think these things, you just have to own them. You know, like that's just what it is.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

We're seeing so many more women chair that they don't want kids as well, it's nice to, it's just more out there. Absolutely, I always think it's funny when people say, like you'll change your mind. It's like, when you tell me you want kids, I don't tell you to change your mind. It's so funny to me. And we did this episode and it was really so beautiful and we tried really hard to not judge anybody's decisions because we don't care. you want to be a mom, that's amazing. If you don't, then don't be a mom. But the amount of people that wrote us and said, I grew up never knowing I had a choice. I thought this was a foregone conclusion. I'm one of those people as well, just always thought, of course I'll have kids, everybody has kids. So many mothers wrote us and said, I love my kids but I don't know that I would have chosen this if I knew that I had other options.

One kid does well.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

It's more absolute. Yeah, right?

It's so funny. It was news that I could have had another option. The emails we got were heartbreaking for mothers that were like, I don't think I should have had kids. You know, and like Raina said, I love my kids, but we were like, whoa, like thanks for sharing.

Yeah. For mother. Yeah, thanks for sharing with us.

That requires some honesty. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

People felt like it was a safe space to share that type of guilt that they feel. It's not a big community that exists that you can tell your other mom friends, like I hate this, you know. And I can't really, because I'm not a mother, I'm not in these mom forums. But I know that there's a lot of judgment. You know, I'm sure it's not a very popular thing to say, like I made a mistake. You know, it's a huge decision to make and teach their own. It's not necessarily a decision I'm going to make. But yeah, it was hard to see a lot of people say, you know, I just didn't know. I didn't know that I could make another decision. And there's been so much writing, especially since COVID, that so many women are forgoing having children. And I love that we can talk about this now. And it's not so taboo.

And I remember when I told my mom I didn't think I wanted to have kids. I'm not 100% like Ashley is, but I know that there's a lot of judgment. I'm aging out of being an active kid, so. You're not freezing your eggs. I'm not freezing any eggs. I told my mom I didn't think I wanted to have kids and it was a really bad situation. And I don't think, I think I approached it really flippantly. And I insulted her choice to have children. And I think I said something like, well, I don't need to have kids to make my life mean something. And she was like, you think my life didn't write anything without you? Like, you know, so I think that I was kind of hurtful in my words and I didn't think about it. And I was just like, what's the difference?

My life means a lot to a lot of people. And she was like, so I think that you do have to, you know, tread lightly with, with family.

And anything with — Thank you for sharing that.

No, yeah.

No, yeah, yeah. Ultimately.

It's important to approach it with compassion. Passion. Yeah. I did not choose my words well. It was a really bad fight because I insulted her choices in life. And my mom accepts anything. Our parents, we're really lucky. Our parents just accept whatever we do. But I think that you just tread a little bit lightly. And you know, my mom wasn't mad that I said I didn't want kids.

She was mad at my delivery about all the kids. Yeah. Whatever we do. Yeah. That's such a great point. I mean, I think so often you could be making a really good decision for yourself. But it's what you just said, it's reflected and projected in a way onto our insecurity about them or a flow we see in them or a challenge in them. And I love that you brought that point up because I think it's so important to communicate it and say it because it's for us, right? It's about you. It's about you as the individual. And even the way you were saying, Ashley, I think there's so much strength and courage when you're like, this is my decision. I'm owning it and I'm dealing with it in how it reflects on me.

But thank you for opening up and sharing that with the kids. Oh, yeah.

People love this topic. Oh yeah. People love this topic with us. And it really was actually the approach to the topic originally, but my mom, it was, she was just sort of like, oh, you think you're so successful. You don't need kids, but I needed them. You know, it came off not very nice.

Yeah. But I will say having a new nephew, I get it. It doesn't make me want kids, but I feel different on the inside. Like the love that I have for this baby is like, I can't, I could like cry right now. Just as I miss them so actively every day. Like it did not make me want to have children. I want to be very clear. It's still no part of it I'm interested in, but it's like made me understand it more or something where I'm like, yeah, I really did. I get it y'all. And those I feel for you even more that are kind of struggling with this in the first place. Cause it's really beautiful.

It doesn't make me like, I feel for you even more special. It made me want them and not want them. I'll tell you why. He's the cutest. He just brings so much love to the room and everyone. It just brings everyone together. And such a beautiful wife, but your sister-in-law, like I, it's around the clock. I see how hard she works to just, you know, be a great mother and cook dinner. And she cooked this great Christmas dinner and then she had to go upstairs and feed him. She couldn't eat with us. She missed dinner. And I was like, I don't want that.

I was like, this is a nightmare. Last to eat. And I cooked it and paid for it, no thanks. So she is such a good mom. And I think sometimes good parenting is looking at that and going, I wouldn't be good at that. And I'm not gonna do that. I don't wanna be bothered, okay? I'm eating first.

Well, that's hard work. Just eat with us. She missed dinner and I was like,

I don't want that. Well, that's what it is, right? When you're looking at the baby for two hours a day,

it's very different than being with the baby for 20. I will say, I wanna tell you this. I just feel like you'll appreciate it. Is that we talked about this on the episode of like, there's this tiny thing in the back of your head that you just don't wanna die alone. You know, like you may not be with your spouse if you ever got married or your friends could be dead or you won't have your parents anymore. Like your family, your immediate family is gone. And so there's that little thing in the back of your head that for me, it's like, I watched my mom tend to my grandmother when she was dying and we all had a very close relationship. And it's like, what happens when I'm in my grandmother's place or when I'm dying or I'm in hospice or I'm sick or whatever. And so it doesn't make me wanna do it. But there is that thing, at least in my head and I think in other people's too. And we did this episode and we got this... Maybe I shouldn't have brought this up.

We got this email from this hospice nurse and she was like, your fears are so valid, but I just want to tell you too that you will have people with you at the end and you've built this life for yourselves and you'll be surrounded by people that you love, and it took me out, like I was like, what a beautiful message to ease those fears and that you will have people around you and you will be surrounded by love in your final days, this morbid, as that sounds. But it was really nice to hear from someone

who witnesses those things happen every day, is that. Yeah, and really the greatest gift of this podcast is it has given me better friends, given Ashley and I a reason to travel and tour and reconnect with friends from college and high school. And it's made my relationship with my parents better, my brother, it just, it's made me a better person. And I think a better daughter, sister, friend, all of that, so that's such a gift. And now, yes, I know I'll be surrounded by people because I've used this podcast as therapy for myself. And we get to interview people like you.

Our listeners will put that there at the end. I'll do a live stream.

Yeah, I'm going to stream my death. Okay, people can call in. Well, I'll be on a feed like in the zoo where you watch the penguins, but it'll be me at the hospital.

Yeah, anyway, call in. Well, no, thank you for taking it there. I mean, honestly, I can tell why people are addicted listening to you both. I mean, you're chill. It's very addictive. It's contagious. It's amazing energy. I fully agree that whoever you decide to choose to be with and who chooses to be with both of you are going to have such a great relationship. They are going to have such a great time. Just love spending this time with you. And even to hear how reflective and thoughtful and how deep, and just the amount of self work that you've both done is unbelievable and to see it in display, in this way, is really inspiring. And I hope that everyone who is listening or watching can see that you can have fun.

And think deeply at the same time between, which is important, because I think there's this belief that like, you can just be silly and stupid, or you can be really thoughtful and reflective.

I think you both walk that path really wonderfully. You, too. That really means the world, you know. It really does, because it's like, people are dynamic, and you can go on stage and do all the stuff. And at the end of the day, still be like an intelligent person with depth, and you can have conversations like this. So I really appreciate that.

I need it. I need it.

It really does. We really appreciate that. It really means a lot. We try to make our show like that. That's what we call it, a comedy show about dating and relationships. We've done really wild episodes with porn stars, but we've talked about sexual assault and abortion and really heavy stuff. So we're really proud of that. We hope that came across.

So thank you for signing up. Yeah, definitely. No, definitely. I'm hoping this will be the first of many, so today's a good intro for anyone who doesn't already love you and follow you, but we end every episode with a final five. And so I'm going to have to ask you, but you can decide who goes first. I don't mind. But you have to answer the same questions. OK, so question number one, what is the best relationship advice you've ever heard, received

or given? So I think the best relationship advice we've heard, I can give it up one sentence. Yeah. This is going to sound counterintuitive, but the thing that's going to make you the best partner is building life for yourself that you are proud of. That is our whole show's mantra.

You can't say our. It's yours. It's yours right now. Own it. That's what we found actually. We've not driven that.

We're just calling it journeythrathered one.' So you have to come up with your own one now. Just go first.' See, actually, I watch that clip. Just go first.' I watch that clip.

Make a list of the person you want and be that person. No, I mean, I watched- No. But that's what I think will make you the perfect partner and the best version of yourself.

You build life. You've already won. You've already won. No, it's actually our share.

No, no. Second place is fine. I mean, listen. I mean, listen, again, it might sound counterintuitive to like manifesting and visualizing, but I really do stand by it might not look like what you thought it was gonna look like. I love that, that's great. And with anything. You know, your life, but your relationship. That's awesome.

And just real. I love that, that's great. Anything.

And just real.

Chill, and nothing's so heavy, just relax. All right, second question. What's the worst relationship advice

you've ever heard, received, or given? Change yourself to fit into somebody else's life.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah.

answer. Just stupid stuff like don't sleep with someone up to like 14 dates.

Any rules. We just really we try to hammer that on.

I think sex rules I think it's crazy and we have like I'm not saying you should always sleep with them in the first I mean I just think those things like bog

you down. Question number three what's something you used to value in

relationships that you don't anymore? I mean I guess you don't need to play a

D1 or pro sport. I only used to want to be with athletes. You don't have to be an athlete.

Okay got it. I don't know I feel like I just keep adding to like because I the bar started so low it was just like do you have a pulse? Because I was never one of those girls that was like

gotta do the guy with money and finance like I wasn't one of those people like it's really it's gone backwards yeah it's just you don't have to be a pro athlete. Yeah I just the bar was so low before so nothing I should keep adding.

So nothing yeah I should keep adding. That's a good answer. Question number four what's one episode on your

podcast that you'd love everyone to listen to? It's just what are you looking for? For this community for this for my audience. I like this episode we did called You're Not The One because I feel like it goes in tandem with this today and it's just about breaking up with those people that are not the one.

Yeah we did do an episode with Lane Moore in the new year about what do we

call it? It's not how to be alone how to be alone how to be alone

along that line last year 2022 last year and we were gonna talk to you about that on our show okay but yeah I mean so much of this is just checking with yourself being a good version of yourself. We did do a relationship with Lori Gottlieb who's a psychotherapist about yeah we love her she's been on twice. Both the episodes with her were great but we did one in the fall about about strengthening your relationship, mother-daughter relationships. It's applicable to any parent relationship, but it really, I think, helped a lot of people. And so if you're looking for anything like that, I think it's really special. And everything's on our website. Every episode we've ever done,

you can go to girlscotty8.com as well. Yes, she's been on, I love Laura. Fifth and final question, what's your biggest piece of relationship advice

for each other this year, 2023? I feel like my piece of advice for Reina has always been about the same, and it's just don't go down the road with people that are not emotionally available and wouldn't be a good match. And I feel like I can sometimes see it in them answer more than one sentence, but I can kind of sometimes see that when she can't because she's in it. And so I just would continue on that road

if like pick partners that make sense. I think for you because you just, in the past you've just said, I don't care about being in relationship this year, just to prioritize it this year and to just give yourself some grace that you don't need to work seven days a week and you don't need to work at 10 p.m. And like you're allowed to take days off and you're allowed to prioritize yourself and just be in the moment and be happy. and you don't need to just be working all the time, you're allowed to- Rainin gets me permission to stop working and make me emotional.

I love it, I love it. Rainin gets me permission to stop working and make me emotional. I love it, I love it. This year, she told me,

Ashley, you run the company, you don't work today, and I was like, what? Try to remind me as we own this company, and she was like, I just feel really stressed for you, really bogged down, and I was like, we own the company, you can take the day off. But I think that she has a really full life, but just talking about her, she has a really full life, and all these friends, She works really hard, and so it can be easy to be like, I don't have anything left in the tank today. So you, your intention is to date, so I think you should do it.

I'm trying to energetically make space. Beautiful, I love that. Reina, Ashley, this has been so fun to talk to you. Everyone who's been listening and watching wherever you are, make sure you tag Reina, Ashley, and me with your biggest insights, takeaways, tips, moments that made you laugh out loud, whatever worked for you, and stuff that you're practicing, trying out this year as well, and make sure that you go and listen to and subscribe to Girls Gotta Eat as well if you want more of Reina and Ashley in your life. Reina, Ashley, thank you so much for the opportunity, the joy, so grateful to both of you, and thanks for joining On Purpose. Thank you so much. Thank you. If you love this episode, you're going to love my conversation with Matthew Hussey on how to get over your ex

and find true love in your relationship.