Lewis Howes ON: How to Physically Release Trauma & Why You Should Focus On Discipline Over Motivation to Succeed - Transcripts

March 06, 2023

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Today, I sit down with my friend Lewis Howes to talk about finding the courage to work on ourselves a little bit more. We share ideas on the dealing with the different seasons in our life and being present in each season, the level of discipline you have for yourself determines the outcome of goals you’ve set your mind and heart into, getting unstuck of the same pattern of familiarity that hinders personal growth, and the misconception of greatness and how it always starts within you. Lewis is a lifestyle entrepreneur, high performance business coach, a New York Times best-selling author, 2x All-American athlete, and keynote speaker. He hosts The School of Greatness podcast, which was launched in 2013, where he shares inspiring interviews from the most successful people on the planet—world-renowned leaders in business, entertainment, sports, science, health, and literature.


where I was feeling this pain in my chest, kind of on and off. And I was telling you about this and other people, I was like, man, I just feel like this pain and feel like a clenching, like I can't, like, I don't know, something was holding me back. That was the fear. And I think when we can fully embrace it and say, this might happen, and I may not like it, but by stepping into the fear, I literally felt a ball of pain in my chest unlock

and like disintegrate throughout my whole body. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world, thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to become happier, healthier, and more healed. And I am so excited to be talking to you today. I can't believe it. My new book, Eight Rules of Love is out and I cannot wait to share it with you. I am so, so excited for you to read this book, for you to listen to this book. I read the audio book. If you haven't got it all ready, make sure you go to eightrulesoflove.com. It's dedicated to anyone who's trying to find, keep, or let go of love. So if you've got friends that are dating, broken up, or struggling with love, make sure you grab this book. And I'd love to invite you to come and see me for my global tour, Love Rules. Go to jshedytour.com to learn more information about tickets, VIP experiences, and more.

I can't wait to see you this year. Now today's guest is a dear, dear friend of mine and what I love about having him on the show is you love it. Whenever we do something together, we get incredible feedback. I get the most texts ever. I get so many DMs from all of you because you love seeing us connect because he's someone who's happy to be vulnerable about his own challenges and journey. He's done that plenty of times on this show. But today he's here to talk about something that he's been really thinking about and working on for the next five years. So I want all of you to show your support for this incredible human, but also this amazing book that he's written. I want everyone to go and order it right now. The link is in the notes and the captions. I'm talking about my dear friend Lewis House, who's a New York Times bestselling author, keynote speaker, and industry leading show host of the School of Greatness Podcasts, which is one of the top podcasts in the world with over 500 million downloads. Lewis was recognized by the White House and President Obama as one of the top 100 entrepreneurs in the country under 30.

And his new book is right here. It's called The Greatness Mindset. Unlock the power of your mind and live your best life today. This is the book that I want you to go and grab. Please welcome to the show my dear friend and brother Lewis House. Lewis. Good to see you brother. Good to see you brother. This is exciting man. It's like, you know, this is five years in the making like for you to, you've had a podcast now for nearly 10 years.

I saw that announcement. Lewis. Thanks Jay. Good to see you brother. Good to see you brother.

In two weeks it'll be my 10 year anniversary. That's insane. Congratulations. Thank you. What a history and legacy of service and like how many interviews now is that? Almost 1,400 episodes. That's insane, right? 1,400 episodes over 10 years, unbelievable legacy. You wrote your first book, The School of Greatness, your second book, Mask of Masculinity.

On the release of that book was when we became friends. Yes, thank you. What a history and lessons. Thank you. Yeah, the day it came out, I went on your show at NASDAQ. At NASDAQ, yeah. New York City. I just started hearing about you maybe a few months before and then you'd reached out and I saw a couple of your videos and I was like, I really like your style.

And when we met, I was like, let's just hang out all day. I know, it was amazing. I didn't expect that because I was doing, yeah. So for anyone who doesn't know, I used to have a show on NASDAQ Reads, which was called Follow the Reader and I would try and sit down with authors and talk to them and I was thankful enough. That's where I met Ryan Holiday and it's where I met a couple of other people in the space and I'd reached out to you because I'd always loved your work and usually an author would come in. You'd do the interview. You'd promote the book and then they'd leave and this was the day your book came out and you were like, well, why don't we just spend the whole day together so we're like, we're in a coffee shop together. Amazing, man. We're in a Barnes and Noble together. It's so fun. And that was the beginning of our friendship. It was amazing, man.

And now we're here on another book launch, day. And five years to write a book, like five years to be thinking about a book, five years to not... It's so easy to just put, for you, like with an amazing audience, amazing community, you could just put out a book whenever you wanted to. What were you working on?

What were you thinking about for five years? This year like, we're in a coffee shop together and now we're dead. Right, I wanted to do this after the mask of masculinity and this was the thing that I was like, this is the thing that I wish I would have had when I was, you know, 15, 21, 35, the book and the content that I wish I could have had to understand the pain that I was going through. And now having been through a lot of different healing journeys and healing a lot of different wounds that I had from my past, I finally felt like I was at a place of peace where I could create abundantly as opposed to forcing something. And when I wanted to start this five years ago, which I've been kind of researching and taking notes and having documents for a long time in my interviews about this, I had the content, but I didn't feel like I was at a place where I felt like it was a good coach to myself. I felt like I was still critical of a lot of things and still beating myself up emotionally and mentally. And I didn't feel like I would be authentic in putting the content out until I was healing at a level of authenticity internally. Wow. So after two years ago, I felt like I finally kind of had a tipping point for a portion of my life that I was struggling with my entire life. 10 years ago, I started opening up about healing sexual abuse and that type of trauma. And that set me on a journey of healing for the next five years, many different things from my childhood, from parent stuff, things like that. And it allowed me to evolve as a human, be more courageous, have more authenticity, all that stuff.

Be less triggered, less reactional, all that stuff. But I still kept repeating certain patterns in relationships. And you've seen me in three different relationships now since I've met you. And you probably were able to witness a pattern from the previous two. It's so hard to see the things until it gets really, really bad sometimes. When things are good, and when things are not so good, it's hard to see it. It's not until things get really challenging or some big breakdown when we start to wake up. And it was the last relationship where I was like, man, I keep repeating the patterns of something based on a wound. I keep choosing, I keep staying, I keep putting myself in these challenging situations that I don't feel like I need to, but I hadn't yet unlocked what that was. Whether I was afraid to face it or just not aware of it yet, I hadn't fully embraced that healing journey. And so I started down a very intensive, coaching therapy experience where I was doing five, six, seven hour days on weekends every week, working with a coach to figure out what is holding me back. Why do I have this pain in my heart?

Why do I feel like there's something like choking me on a consistent basis? Why do I feel like I can't catch my breath sometimes? When on the outside, I've got things going well for me. You know, it's like, I'm able to accomplish things, I can create my goals and make them happen. I'm building a business, you know, all these things, I'm functional in a high level, but internally, I didn't have harmony. Wow, I was kind of at the stage and we would talk about it all the time. I was like, dude, why am I struggling with this so much? Why am I going through this? And I was kind of at a stage where I was just like, I've got to figure out this part of my life in intimate relationships. Because energetically, it's holding me back from friendships, family, creating my work, my mission, my health. It's draining, it's pulling from me. And that's why I always loved being single because when I was single, I felt free.

But when I was in intimacy, I felt like I was trapped. So I had to go down the journey of really healing a lot of the different emotional wounds from childhood that put me in the programming of feeling trapped and feeling really like I had to abandon myself for someone to love me. And so I never truly loved my authentic self because I never felt like someone else would love me for who I truly was and truly accepted who I was. So that was just my personal journey where other people might struggle in trying to figure out how to get clear on their purpose or their mission or how to make money or how to get in shape. That wasn't my problem. My challenge was intimacy, trusting myself and being 100% authentic and courageous in intimacy and not changing who I was to please someone else. But the need to please others who I loved

and who loved me was a big wound, and it caused a lot of pain. Yeah. I mean, it's so powerful you're hearing you say that because I feel like it's not worth becoming someone you don't know to please someone you think you love. One person, yeah. Yeah, you just become someone you don't recognize. You become someone who you don't know, you don't understand just to hope that that person will see that person- And accept you. And accept you. Yeah. It's exhausting. It's exhausting, yeah. you're always performing, you're playing a role. You're giving in, you're abandoning yourself.

It's one person can accept you. And. It's exhausting. You're giving in, you're abandoning yourself.

It's mentally, emotionally, physically draining. But what I love about all of that results in you being able to be creative, like you start removing all those blocks internally, it results in a book, and a book as we know is like a lifetime's worth of work put into pages to help people find their greatness in their own lives. And I wanted to start with, I definitely want to dive into certain elements of the book, because I think what you do in this book so well is you remove blocks for people. Like I think the way you were just describing you having blocks in intimacy and relationships, I think we know this and my community feels this and I felt this in my life, there were blocks in what I believed was true of my potential or blocks that I thought were true of what I could achieve within success or blocks around how I felt about judgment and failure. And so I want to dive into all of that.

Yeah, I remember the first year meeting you, you were like, I don't think I could make, you know, six figures a year, you know, you're kind of like, I don't even know if that's possible or if I'm worthy of that or deserving of it, or if the work I'm doing, I'm supposed to be making that, you know, that much money. And that was kind of a block of yours for, you know, probably a long time before then, but for a couple of years until you really were able to work your way through that. What was the thing inside of you that allowed you to unblock the

financial fear that you had? Yeah, it's exactly that, right? Like I had grown up in a family where the language around money and the psychology around money was we have just enough. And generally people who have money have done something bad to get money. So it's been like negative ways or like manipulative ways, or they must have done something shady in order to have wealth. Yeah. And so people who are good don't have access to that kind of wealth because they're not shady people. And so I think when I grew up with that, I remember many days having zero in my bank account, you know, just living off of the last amount of money I had to pay off a bill or whatever it may have been. And I think what it really hit me as time went on was I was having all this impact. Like at one point, I still remember this. I had 150 million views and I was four months away from being bro. It's crazy.

And I was just like, I can't make the stuff I care about anymore because I don't have money. Like I can't, videos cost money to make like this. I always say to people like this podcast, this studio costs money to have, like it costs money to have teams. And, you know, right now we have producers behind the scenes and editors and podcast leads, and there's a whole team of people that make things possible. And when you're financially scarce, and I don't mean that in terms of how much money you have, but in your mind, when there's a scarcity around money or anything scarcity around love or scarcity around energy or scarcity around health. Yes. It just limits you. And so for me, And what you just went through, I had to rewire my relationship with money, Yes. And we have a relationship with people, we have relationship with money, we have relationship with our body, we have relationship with our mind, Exactly.

And so to me. Crazy, yes. I'm curious then, what was the, I wanna tell this I want to get, I wanna tie it into bringing it back to me, I get it but, I wanna tell the story of the exact moment when the block went away for me from having fear around being trapped in intimacy after a five month journey of like intensive therapy and what it did for me. I wanna share that story in a moment. But I'm curious, what was the moment? Was there a moment where something like you're unlocked in your heart, your body, your mind, your spirit, where you're like, Oh, I'm deserving of money, I'm deserving of making more or or having abundance or whatever it might have been and being free of that feeling. Was there a moment for you?

I mean, I get it. I mean, I think I'm still getting there as well. There's a part of it where you're always still rewiring because when something's so deep rooted, it kind of like never like just leaves. But I'd say that I got more comfortable with it. That's a great question. When was that moment? If I could-

Like was there a breakthrough? Like was there a breakthrough? Was it in a negotiation for a speaking gig where you're like, oh, I'm used to only making this much but let me ask for more

or something kind of unlocking inside of you? I actually think it was, and this, I haven't talked about this before, but I think it's, you know, and I'm sharing it because I'm with you and it is the answer to your question. I think it was the first year that I could give over six figures to a charity that I loved. Wow. That's what it was. It was that feeling of, and I knew that that charity would have died if it didn't have that much money. Interesting. And they were doing really meaningful work that I cared about. And I realized that I was like, oh, wait a minute. And that's not like, oh, look how great I am. I said, that's not the point. The point was I could only do that and I could only be a part of that because I'd rewired my mindset.

So if I wanted to create meaning and impact in the work, and this is one way, there are plenty of other ways to give back through time and energy. But to me, I was like, oh, like I can trust myself that if I have more, I will give more. And I wanna trust myself that, you know, we always hear that quote. I don't know whether it's from Grant or from Jordan Belfort but the idea of like money only makes you more of who you are. Yes, exposes who, he exposes more of who you are. And that idea that you're only going to become more. It's gonna put us spotlight. We were just talking about that yesterday. Like the idea that you don't change and I felt for me, it was, that was me trusting myself. And I think when you rewire it, like you trust yourself. What you were saying earlier, Like you get a trust of like, oh yeah, I will do good with this. Because that's why I'm at the core.

That's powerful. Wow. I doubt about the way. Yes, it exposes whoever you are. It exposes more. That's powerful. But it sounds like it was a reflection process. It was you trying stuff. It was you being like consistent and practicing. And still today. Yeah, exactly. It never goes away, yeah.

So what had happened for me, I was kind of just like, I'm sick of feeling this pain, this stuckness, this breakdown pattern that I'd continue to repeat and that I was fully responsible for in choosing certain relationships out of integrity and out of alignment of values and all these different things and then staying. And I was finally like, okay, I need to find a solution to this pain. And so I found a coach that does a lot of therapy and healing work. And I just said, I'm going to invest in six months. I'm gonna pay in advance and I'm gonna commit to my intention of finding the solution. I'm gonna do the work. I think that's step one, is being clear of your intention that you want to find a solution to whatever's causing you any type of pain or stuckness in any area of your life. Then I went all in on just being as real and authentic and vulnerable as possible. And I remember there was a weekend after about three and a half, maybe four months where I went away and I was not with my partner at the time but I was with a different group of friends. And I felt free in this weekend and I felt seen and accepted for who I was. I felt celebrated for who I was. And I wasn't really feeling that in the relationship and I remember being like, man, this is the type of life I want to experience consistently where I can be myself authentically around the people I care about and I'm accepted, but I wasn't feeling accepted in this relationship.

And it's because I was willing to abandon myself over and over to try to create peace. I was trying to buy peace. you can't buy peace. You've gotta own it, you've gotta become it, and the my coach, after many many months of this, in kind of unpacking a lot of different things and doing exercises with her and reflection and all these different things, there was a moment where I was feeling this pain in my chest, kind of on and off. And I was telling you about this and other people I was like man I just feel like this pain and feel like a clenching like I can't, I don't know something was holding me back. and she'd said something that finally clicked, she was like, Louis, you're not trapped, you're free, you can walk away at any time, you're not stuck in this relationship, specifically now you're not engaged, you're not married, you've got no kids, but you're free. You can choose to walk away at any time. And I always was afraid of walking away because I didn't want to hurt one person and I didn't want that one person that I cared about to not love me, to not like me, to hate me, to whatever. That was the fear. And I think when we can fully embrace it and say, this might happen, and I may not like it, but if that's the price I need to pay to create peace in my life, by stepping into the fear, by owning the fear,

by accepting that it will happen, potentially. Hey. Yeah, exactly.

It never goes away, yeah. Something happened in that moment. I can't remember if I told you the story, but it was like, I literally felt a ball of pain in my chest kind of unlock and like disintegrate throughout my whole body. I've never felt this sensation before. And from that moment on, I was really kind of like weirded out when I was talking to the therapist, I was like, something just happened. And I was like, something just happened. It was kind of like months of practice, months of reflection, months of these exercises and working with this coaching, taking action and trying to integrate the lessons. And then finally like unlocked in a moment. It was a lifetime of practice, but a moment that unlocked. And I haven't felt that pain or fear of being trapped or being stuck or being not enough or needing to abandon myself to please anyone else since then. It doesn't mean I haven't had some challenges or stressful moments, but I haven't had that. And I'm so aware of it because I keep practicing and integrating the healing journey.

I think that's been the key for me is the ongoing integration of healing so that I can keep expanding, feeling happier, healthier, and healed like you talked about for this show. And I think that's what everyone wants, to feel happier, to feel healthier,

and feel like they're on the healing journey. Yeah, I mean, hearing you say that as your friend I know how much time and energy you put into working on yourself, I know that any conversation we have turns into a Q & A with both of us going back and forth. I know any conversation we have will be talking about what work you're doing and who you're working with and who's in our teams to help us do that work. I'm talking about personal life. What is the difference then? Because I want to get into the greatness mindset because you are teaching people how to unlock the power of their mind and live their best life today, which is what you've been doing professionally and now personally over the last few years. What is the difference between motivation and discipline? Because I find that a lot of the time people think like, oh, I'm so motivated by that. I'm so inspired by that. But what you just explained is far more of a dedicated discipline to the self-work, the inner work. Talk to me about the difference between those two and where do we find

them? I think motivation is for people that don't have a meaningful mission. Discipline is for people that are clear on their identity of who they want to become and the mission that they have that is meaningful for them, not only for them, but for those around them. And when I was growing up, I wanted to be successful. That was kind of the goal and the mindset is how can I become successful? How can I accomplish my goals as an athlete? How can I be a pro athlete? How can I make money? How can I get awards and all these different things? For whatever reason, that's what I thought of as I wanted to be successful. When I turn 30 and started realizing how big of an ego I actually had and how selfish I actually was in life. I was a fun loving guy, but my intentions were more for me to look good, for me to win, for me to be successful, for me, me, me.

This is one of the reasons why I love you so much because your mission is about service. I started to realize at 30 that success was selfish and greatness was really about service. Greatness was not about just me. It was about having an intention of a dream that I might have, but including others in the dream where success is more about accomplishing goals and dreams for just you and not as much thinking about others. Maybe others are included, but the intention is really like, how do I look good? How do I get this award and make this money and get this credibility? That's why 10 years ago I said, I have to completely shift my identity. It was an unwinding of 30 years of programming, so I had to shift the identity from, okay, and I love that you always talk about collaboration over competition. I was all competition. There's healthy competition in sports and things like that, but in the game of life, we've got to be collaborators. We've got to be thinking about we instead of me if we want to go far, if we want to go fast, what is the quote? If you want to go fast, go alone.

If you want to go far or go together or something like that. If you want to go fast, you can do it on your own quickly, but you won't take you far and you typically burn out Motivation, I believe, is for people that want only success, but discipline is when you shift your identity based on a meaningful mission. That's why I start the book with Meaningful Mission because all the great people that we've interviewed who have health, happiness, and are healed, I think that's greatness. They have a meaningful mission that's beyond them. They have something more, and that is an identity that has non-negotiables where they're able to be disciplined because it's something bigger than them, whereas success by itself needs constant

motivation, right? Something like that. I love that you just shifted that desire of selfish goals or like self-based goals to service because that for me was the thing that switched when I met the monk, right? So I heard that at 18, and that was just to my 18-year-old mind. I was like, what? What? Like, wow, like no one's ever said that to me before, and I would never have learned it if it wasn't for meeting the monk. And you're saying you learned it at 30, or that's when you

realized that after being successful to some degree that you'd achieve then. Externally successful. Right. And I was like, what? What? Like internally suffering. Yeah. Wow. And no one wants to suffer. No one. It's interesting. I was just interviewing a guy before this today, and I said on a scale of one to 10 of your inner peace and self-love scale, 10 being you love yourself, you have a lot of inner peace, one being you hate yourself, no love.

Where are you? He said I'm a five. Wow. And I said, and this is a guy with a massive company, extremely fit, shredded, like people around him, but internally, a five. And it goes back to what you talked about. I love the intro, which is happy, healthy, and healed. Yeah. Healing, which is, I said, why do you think you're a five? And he said, I haven't dealt with the inner stuff. I've dealt with the mental side of discipline, and structure, and organization, and working hard, and grinding. But the emotional side of healing your heart, I believe, is the game. Yeah.

It doesn't matter how shredded you are, how wealthy you are, how successful you are, how many cars you have. If your inner emotional state is suffering, you are losing. And when your inner emotional state is at peace and focused on service, it doesn't have to be changing the world, but service to the people in your life,

that's when you are successful. Yeah. Wow. Since. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people that will say, well, Lewis, I don't have anything to serve with. So shouldn't I want success first, and then I'll find service because I don't have my meaningful mission. I don't have any money. I don't have access. I don't have a platform.

Shouldn't I aim to get a platform first, and then serve through it? how would you think about that?

I mean, you served for many years before you got your platform, you know, and then you built your platform after really kind of figuring out who you were, your identity, after leaving the monk hood, right? you started to figure out, what did you want? And I think there's a period of time, a season of life where we have to try a lot of different things, and figure out what do we really love? What are our passions? Where our talents lie in with our power? And then what us the problem we're looking to solve. So it's the three P's. So three P's of passion. The passion, the power that you have. Right. And the problem you're looking to solve. Love that.

So I give a lot of prompts and questions in the book around the three P's where you kind of figure out your sweet spot of what could I be doing. So the passions are… And a lot of people say that. I've heard a lot of people say don't follow your passion. I don't agree with that. I think you should be thinking about what you're most curious about. What excites you. Whenever I ask people, what are you most excited about in your life right now? You mostly see people like look up in the sky and stood there like they take a deep breath and they get really excited and they're emotional about it, they're like joyful about it. You want to lean into that feeling and do those things and be in that playground of experiences. I think you really want to be thinking about what is the things that I am most passionate about and maybe it doesn't mean for a two to four year window of life you're gonna be able to work on it, but you can still be working towards it. So figuring out what interests you, what would you do if money was no object? What would you just love to wake up and do in general and what excites you?

Think about that. The second thing is, you know, when I was starting out, I didn't feel like I had any talents. So I can relate to a lot of people. When you left the monk hood, you were like, well, what is this transferable skill into the workforce? That's literally how I felt. And you said you got rejected by like 100 companies or something. Like 40 companies. And it's like, I didn't think I had transferable skills. You didn't think you had. A lot of people probably don't think that way. And most people, when they finish university or college, they don't use that degree five to 10 years later. They're moving on to different things eventually, right?

So even if you got a degree in something, you probably won't use it in five to 10 years, fully in that area. And so I think you got to figure out what are the, how do I describe it? Kind of like invisible assets, right? The invisible assets that you have acquired throughout your entire life that maybe you're not even aware of. For me, an invisible asset was curiosity. It's not like I have this tangible currency that I can like use to build an opportunity in my life. But it was an invisible currency, an invisible asset. I was so curious about other people. another invisible asset, I was a pretty joyful human being. And anytime I entered a room and everyone was always older than me and more talented and more successful, I just said, I'm going to bring so much joy and curiosity. That doesn't seem like a transferable skill. People would be like, they just wanted to help me.

And I was this 24 year old punk that was just like entering these networking events and these social media conferences and these rooms around all these kinds of thought leaders. And really people that I was like, wow, they're like successful mentors of mine. And they're always like, hey, Lewis, why don't you come join us for dinner? Hey, that's pretty cool you're doing this. Let me help you here. And I brought curiosity and joy. I never talked about myself. I would just ask questions that I was fascinated by. And people loved to share these stories about themselves. That was a currency. That was an invisible asset that I brought to the table. So you got to think about what are the powers that you have that maybe you don't think you have.

And also I'm a big fan of figuring out where you are most powerless and creating a list of all your fears.

I call it the fear list in the workforce. That's literally how I felt. I'm used to it. 40 companies. Yeah, 40 companies.

Yeah, I want to get into that. Yes, this is the place where you feel the most powerless. So for me at the time, I felt like my biggest fears and where I felt most powerless was standing in front of a room of peers. I could not stand up and speak in front of five people without stuttering, stumbling, sweating, and just forgetting everything that I wanted to say. So I always felt insecure when I had to stand up and present in front of people. And I always felt like, man, I'm just messing up and people are laughing at me and I'm not as smart as everyone else. I'm not as good as presenters as everyone else. So I had this incredible crippling fear. And yet I knew one day I wanted to be able to impact people in some way, whether it was a career or something else. And so I found a mentor who was a professional speaker. I found a mentor with a model that I wanted to mimic. He was a professional speaker, and he said, you gotta overcome this fear.

A way to do that is go to Toastmasters, a professional-speaking class that you can go to. And he told me exactly what to do. I want you to go every week for a whole year. It's gonna suck the first few months. You're not gonna feel good. You're not gonna like it. It's gonna be embarrassing and you're not gonna feel good about yourself. But I'm telling you, if you do this every week for a year, you will create unbelievable things in your life. And it was true. Never in my wildest dreams will I think I get paid what I get paid to speak publicly now. So what was once something that made me feel so powerless, I made it a superpower. But the only way I could do that was finding someone or some model or mentor to give me some guidance or that I could mimic.

And then taking action on the fear over and over again until I embraced it and became the Batman of public speaking. You know what I mean? It's like, whatever the fear is for you, you've gotta become Batman in that experience. You've gotta live in the dark. You've gotta wear a bat suit and embrace that fear 100% until you can sit there peacefully for me on a stage in front of an audience. And that took years. You wanna develop more superpowers in your tool belt. You want to lean into that. And I had a ton of fears and a lot of insecurities. So it took me many years to start practicing on this and overcoming it. And I still get to step in more of them. The work never ends.

So that's the second thing. You have to figure out what you're interested in, your passions, your powers and overcoming your fears to make them superpowers. And the third one is figuring out what problem do you wanna solve? This is something you talk about so much. And one of the reasons why I love your work, Jay, is because you're always asking people to think differently. You don't have to be the one who's the entrepreneur or creating the thing. There are so many great causes, teams, businesses and companies that have missions that you can be a great team player and use your passion and your power to support that problem. And I think that's what you gotta be looking for. And it may not always come to, in your 20s, early 30s, it may evolve. There are different seasons of life that you can use these passions and powers to solve problems. So you don't have to have it all figured out at 25 or 31. Just give yourself a break

and keep enjoying life along the way. It's like you've got whatever the 31. Yeah, I love the three P's and I hope that everyone, when you get the book, I want you to spend a really big chunk of time figuring out those three P's. And I think what you said is true. I've heard that rhetoric too of don't follow your passion. It's a waste of time. It's bad advice. And I think what people get confused is your passion with doing what you like all the time every day. There are lots of things I have to do every day that I don't like, but they help me do what I'm passionate about. And I think it gets confusing when people are like, well, do your passion means every day, all the time, you'll just be doing what you love. And I'm like, well, that's not true because I have to do plenty of things I don't love

in order to do what I do love. Passionate about it. Exactly, and that's why you've got to use discipline. You've got to use discipline to keep you organized and consistent on certain things that maybe aren't as fun. We'd all love to sit around and play games all day, but it takes discipline to see a meaningful mission come to fruition. And I think that's the key, when you get clear, a lot of people that aren't clear on their meaningful mission for this season of life, they're confused, they get depressed, they have stress, they have overwhelmed, they feel lost, they feel frustrated, they feel like something's off, and it's because you're not clear on the meaningful mission for this season of life. And so, that's why it's just so important to get clear on what you want and how you want to include others in this season.

You know? Yeah, and I love how you keep saying season of life because it's not like you've got to find your meaningful mission for the rest of your entire life. No, and I think that is too much pressure for people. How long is a season? How long, how much time do you think people should think of it?

I mean, there's different types of seasons and I look at it as sports. In sports, in a year... You're an athlete. In a year, there's four seasons in the year of fall, summer, spring, winter. In sports there is a pre-season, a season, a post-season, and the playoffs, right? There's kind of these four seasonal moments and there's always time to reflect on, okay, I did this thing for nine months or year, do I still want to keep doing this thing, right? Take time to reflect. You take a month off every year to reflect what works. I just came back from effort. You just came back. It was amazing. And you were relaxed.

It was amazing. Sometimes we're so in it all the time, that we don't have the moment to reflect on, Do I still, am I still excited about this? Is it still what I want to do? Do I feel like there's a new season coming for me? Like am I shedding something and stepping into something that I'm ready for now? Just like this book, it wasn't the right season five years ago. I didn't feel like I was, had figured out what I needed to figure out internally to be authentically sharing the message that I have now. And I felt like it would have been a fake if it came out years ago.

I knew the concepts but I didn't know it inside of me. So in a year, what works? And you look relaxed. How did you know, like that's a great point, right? I feel like there's a lot of people listening. They want to launch a podcast, they want to write a book. They want to build a new idea inside their company. They want to take a new idea to their boss. They wanna start something fresh or new in their area. They wanna start a charity, right? Whatever it may be. And I think there's always that period of not feeling ready and then doing it.

And I feel like that's the part where most people are stuck. Where like in their head, if you talk to them, and I'll talk to lots of people, they kinda know what the logo looks like, and they're kinda thinking about the website. Or they kinda put a bit of the presentation for their boss together, and they're thinking about it, but what's the difference? Or what is the right way to go about feeling ready or getting ready, even when you don't feel it, right? Because you didn't want to wait 10 years, but you didn't want to wait five days. Like how do you yeah? And obviously, it's a book.

So, it's a bigger thing, it takes more time. Like, I think there's this concept that we've all heard that is like face it until you... What is it? No, fake it till you make it, right? That's the concept fake it till you make it is what a lot of people hear. And I really started to think about, I don't really like that and I think it should be face it until you embrace it right or face it until you embody it. And so when we take the concept in the greatness mindset of okay writing it down, writing down a list of your fears, your fear lists. Then you face the fear until you embody and overcome that fear, until you embrace it you embody it and it doesn't have power over you anymore. And really for me it's it's about having the perception of like, it just kind of depends what you value in life. So many times for me, I think about how much I could die at any moment. You know, I think that my life could be over at any moment. Will I be proud of who I am if I didn't launch this thing that's been inside of me for a while?

I knew on this, I didn't have the fear of writing a book, right? That wasn't a fear of mine, where a lot of people, they have a book idea for 10 or 20 years, and they just never launched the thing. Yeah, that wasn't my fear. My fear was being like inauthentic. Yes to who I was. And being, I don't know, is it a liar or just not feeling like okay, something was off inside of me, I don't want to put something out there. And so I knew, okay, I know this book is going to be my best work ever. But I don't feel like I'm the right messenger yet, to put it out there. So what do I need to face until I can embrace the person I want to be to be able to put this out there. And that to me was after two and a half years of researching this book and taking tons of notes and interviewing experts. And me being me checking in with me at the end of every year being like, why am I still talking about wanting to write this book, but not having the courage. That's when the therapy and the coaching sessions and diving in deep into my wounds and the emotional traumas.

I was like, I need to face this part of me that I'm still afraid of. That was the thing on my fear list, that I had resisted for decades. And when I faced it, and felt like, wow, I'm actually able to feel healing, I'm actually able to feel calm around this situation in my life. In other areas, I felt calm, but not this situation. I'm actually been facing it consistently every week and doing the work emotionally, revealing myself and exercising and coaching and getting feedback on stuff. Then when I felt freedom internally, that's when I was able to create and launch.

Yeah, I need it. Yeah, that's a great insight. I think a lot of us are hoping that our fear will just go away. Or like you said, we just try and fake it and then it doesn't feel right, or it doesn't align with us. And really what you're saying is you have to face the fear you have, there's no other way. It's not like a different route, or there's not a different pathway.

And you can't analyze the fear. Yes, yes, yes. Understand the concept. You've got to experience it. Yeah. And that's scary. Horrifying. Yeah, it's horrifying. Yeah, it's the, you know, it's something that held me back for decades. And it's what causes us as human beings to repeat the same patterns of familiarity. We get stuck in patterns that are familiar, even when we know it's not right. Yeah, this is why you hear so many people, specifically women who say, on my wedding day, I knew it wasn't right.

Like I knew something was off when like three, four or five years later, they got divorced. And you asked them, did you ever think something was off? They were like, on my wedding day, I had a feeling, but I was afraid. I was afraid to let people down. Everyone was already there. The invitations were sent. We had already put the down posit down. I didn't want to ruffle feathers. And I thought maybe we just try to make it work. A lot of us

have that fear of letting others down. And that's the thing that I want to just touch on them because I think that these top three fears are really well articulated. And I've experienced all of them. So I want to reflect on them myself too. So I remember when I was thinking about, like you said, so I'd been doing what I do today. I've been doing it now for 17 years, seven years online, 10 years offline. And the 10 years that it was offline, there were no followers, there was no courses, there was no business aspect to it. It was just service. And it was me learning and me sharing my passion with five to 10 people that would show up, or 50 people that would show up. And when I finally realized that I wanted it to reach more people, and that was an internal calling I had that I didn't want to live in a world where only five to 10 people had access to these ideas, because these ideas changed my life. And I felt, wait a minute, I met a monk. That's a very specific experience.

Not everyone's gonna go through something like that. So how do we speed that experience up for more people? I was scared of failure. Because I was looking at... Why were you scared of failure? Because I was looking at social media. And I was looking at content and I was looking at things people were doing, and I was scared about what my friends would say. I was scared about me uploading something and not getting views, getting criticism, or getting like people in the comments section saying, oh, this is trash, or whatever. And I was scared of failure. I was scared of, no one's gonna care, no one's gonna watch, and it doesn't and it's not gonna matter. And that probably lasted as I was researching, learning and thinking for two years, where I felt like that before I actually. You wanted to, but you didn't do it.

Exactly, I wanted to in my head. And often at those times I find that's when you start becoming critical too. So you're kind of looking at what everyone else is doing and you're finding holes in it because you think you could do it better or you get kind of like that and you realize that's not how you wanna live either. And so I find often when we're the most inactive or stagnant that's when we're the most critical. 100%. Transcendental of others who are doing something and trying their best.

I remember feeling. Three main three, three, three. Vibing yourself and a couple more peopleted. Transcendental of others do you something? Dude. No authors are writing negative reviews on other authors' books. It's just the people that have never written a book

whose like, this was the worst book ever, right? It's hard and so I remember feeling that way. Like where, you know, I was starting to notice, I remember even years ago, when my friends were really into music and we'd be like laughing at the rapper on screen or like whoever it may be, and be like, oh, like he thinks he's got rhymes and we could do better and it's like, but that guy's actually gone and done it, right? Like that person's doing it. And so, yeah, talk to me about, let's talk about that. Because I think the fear of failure, and I love the way you put it into failure and we'll talk about success and judgment. Fear of failure is the number one thing that blocks us from trying. And that's the part, right? It's not about stops us from succeeding,

it stops us from trying. We could do better and it's like. Right, and that's, it's not about. I was trying to figure out what is the thing that holds us back? What are these fears? And it became clear to me that was failure, success, and judgment. And I started, I didn't understand failure and success personally, but I started to ask people and kind of brainstorm it and workshop with people. Because for me, as an athlete growing up, I was conditioned that failure is a part of success. Yeah, that makes sense. So if I wanted success and the pathway there is failure, like every day in practice, you fail. You make a mistake, you give the wrong pass, you turn the ball over, you drop the ball, you miss the shot. So I would watch Michael Jordan fail a hundred times a game but still win the game, you know, or whatever it is, you know, it's like miss a ton of shots.

And it was never like the worst thing. It was like, I don't want to fail in my sport. I want to be perfect in every play but I know that this is the path towards success. And it's how I get feedback to get better. So failure was feedback. It was information telling me what I needed to do to improve. So I understand that concept. Success, I also did not understand why people were afraid of success. But as I started touring and speaking and asking people who hears afraid of failure, most of the room would raise their hand at some point in their life they're afraid of failure. And I'd say, how many of you are afraid of success. Thinking, everyone wants this. So almost half the room would also raise their hand for success and I go, but this is the thing people want.

So if you want something you're afraid of, why would it come to you? Why would success come to you if you're afraid of it? Why would money come to you if you're afraid of it? Why would love come to you if you're afraid of it? So I never understood that concept. But as I started to talk to people and realize, oh, actually I get it because the weight of gold can be so heavy for so many people. There's actually a documentary called Weight of Gold that is about Olympic gold medalists who go on to commit suicide afterwards, who go on to have extreme depression, mental health challenges, lose friendships, go bankrupt, all this stuff. Because the pressure, once you succeed to stay there, everyone expecting you to be a certain way, everyone expecting you to be perfect all the time, the perfect role model. And everyone expecting you now to have money to just give to your friends and family and not knowing who really cares about you for you versus your success. So, and also, it's just a weight that takes a lot of courage to be able to lean into and manage. And I think it's a skill set to understand and manage success. But that's something I always wanted.

So I was like, bring it on, you know, I'll take it. The fear for me that has been my kryptonite over the years was judgment and the need for other people to like me and specifically to matters of the heart and intimacy. And that's why I kept repeating the pattern because I wasn't afraid to enter a relationship. You know, I wasn't afraid of that. I wasn't afraid of it doing well. I wanted it to do well, but I kept abandoning myself to try to please one person to accept and love me. I was terrified of the judgment and that crippled me. It was a big kryptonite in my entire existence until a couple of years ago. And that's the thing, we've got to identify which one of these fears holds us back the most. And again, in the book, I talk about kind of the process of uncovering and unpacking that so that you can have clarity and awareness. You talk about awareness as the key. Once you are aware and clear, then you can create a game plan on how to embrace it, overcome it and make that fear and insecurity a superpower.

And I truly think we're just gonna be, have something off inside of us. We're gonna be unfulfilled. We're gonna be frustrated, you know, disconnected until we figure out what the fear is for us and figuring out how to fully accept ourselves at the center of all these fears is I'm not enough. I am not lovable enough. I'm not smart enough. I'm not good enough. I'm not talented enough. I'm not enough. And when we can finally get to a place where I say, I am enough, I can go back to all the different periods of my life that I'm not proud of, that I'm ashamed of, that I'm insecure about, that I hurt people, that other people hurt me, that I haven't forgiven. If I can go back and reconnect with those broken elements of my mindset from the past and can create healing and wholeness. then I can accept and love myself today from where I'm at.

And that's when everything changes. Yeah. And I can sort of relate to all of those as you're talking about them. Like I remember after I had my first viral video, I didn't want to make any videos. Really? Why? Because you're scared of success. Like you're scared of- But weren't you excited? You're like, oh, 50 million views. Like you know these people- You get, well, that's the point, right? Like at one point, it has to become about more than the success or failure. And that's where the meaningful mission, it comes back to that, right?

Yeah. It always comes back to that. And I was talking about this with our friend and we talked about you too. It's so funny. I was talking to Steven Bartlett recently, because I was in London and we talked about you too because of my relationships. And he was saying what he'd learned from you and the conversations you guys have had and now I'm talking about him to you. But I was talking to him about the idea of just like getting comfortable with the idea that at one point we all have to embrace insignificant and irrelevant in a public sense but that in an internal sense the meaningful mission was what was carrying you. So if you stop because people stop following or if you start only when people are following then there isn't a meaningful mission because the meaningful mission is what you were doing whether people were following or not because it's what you wanted to do and who you wanted to be And so I think it comes back to that, that if you only play when you're winning and you stop when you're losing, or you don't pivot and learn a new way to serve, then there isn't a meaningful mission at the bedrock of it. And so I love that the meaningful mission is at the heart of everything because there will always be changes. Like, the platforms will change the algorithms will change that. People will come and go, people will come and go and you see the people that have lasted the test of time. It's usually people who have a meaningful mission, as you were saying, who want to keep serving,

keep giving, they feel they have that. Really? Why? I didn't, you're like, oh, who's like, who are these people? Right, you. Right, exactly. People will come and go. Yeah, and they're not worried about how famous or relevant they are. Correct. You know, and I think I loved your conversation with Kevin Hart about how like, fame is like this ultimate drug, and if it's not used wisely or managed properly, it will ruin you. Yeah. And I think, you know, the idea of being relevant or having followers or views or something like that, if it's not managed properly, it'll probably stress you out and overwhelm you.

Yeah. And make you go a little crazy, unless there's some foundation of, hey, yes, I want to impact more people, and yes, I want this to do well, but the mission is to serve. And I remember when I wrote my last book, specifically about, you know, masculine vulnerability, I remember thinking to myself, this may not do that well. No, it's gonna be, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not hard. At that time in 2018 or 2017, whenever that was, I was like, I don't know if men are ready to start talking about being vulnerable. It was kind of just like barely happening, right? And now everyone is talking about that, not everyone, but you see that a lot. Yeah. But I remember being like, I really don't care if this sells a million copies or one. If it sells one and that man is impacted and he has a deeper relationship with himself where he heals, he has a deeper relationship with his wife or his partner and his family. He heals and mend some relationships and he finds more happiness, health, and he heals. Then I was like, it's worth it.

It's worth the two years of research. It's worth all the pain that I went through. It's worth the fear of opening up about sexual abuse that I was afraid of years before that because I want another guy to feel the same way. And so I think when we go into it with, yes, we want things to do well. When we put effort and energy into launching a project, a business, a company, a book, a podcast, of course you want things to go well. But if you have the meaningful mission as the bedrock where you're just like, it's about we, it's about us, it's about service. It's not about me getting more famous or building something of more followers.

That's when I think it's more sustainable energetically. Correct. You know what I think I like? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no, no, no. When people are sitting with that, and we kinda skipped, not skipped over it, but we used it and move forward, I think when I use the word purpose or when you're using the word meaningful mission, it can feel quite heavy for certain people because they're like, I don't care about it. Like, there's nothing that I even care about that much. I don't know, or I want to. I wish I cared about humanity or animals

or whatever it may be that you care about. I don't care if I say it. There's nothing that I even care about. You got to know your season. When I was broke on my sister's coach, I couldn't think beyond getting off the couch. So I was like, my meaningful mission is to make enough money to live on my own. Yeah I remember, yeah I remember that.

That's odd. Yea I remember that. Paying rent and paying groceries like... Right. Was... ... where I started...

If that's your season of life, you got to focus on that and you got to focus on getting to a baseline where you can start thinking beyond yourself.

But you're doing that with the hidden feeling of like I want to do service right now I just need to focus on this that's it's kinda like I love that you said that because that's what I found to it's like. I never stopped wanting to do service there were just moments in trying to do service with the immediate need it's kind of like saying you have an apartment. there's a fire in the apartment but you're trying to do your interior design, right? Or you wanna have your friends over, you're like no, but my apartment staff, my friend's over, and it's like no, no, no. It's like burning. Like, I wanna serve you with, someone had my friends over, and it's like, no, no, no, just solve the fire,

and then use it for that, right? You're like, my friend's over, and it's like, no, no, no, no, yes, but like, someone had my friends over, and it's like no, no, no, just solve the fire, Yeah, I think it's it's it's understanding where you're at and that's why I said like listen when I You've got to have a season of overcoming your fears as well like for a few years I was just like I'm so crippled by insecurity and fear that all my energy is going towards public speaking class I'm doing salsa lessons because this was a fear of mine and I want to you're such a good dancer And I was like and I was in research mode, I know you love to read and research and teach I was in just research mode for hours every day. I was researching I was learning online I was building relationships and I was overcoming fears That was the season while I was on my sister's couch for a year and a half trying to figure out who am I? In this world. What is the point of all this? What is my identity now that I've lost my dream and my athletic dreams? What am I gonna do the rest of my life? I was in a season of researching of building relationships and overcoming fears and But still, I was being in service to the people I was working with. I was bringing curiosity, I was bringing joy, I was bringing moments of fun. And that's just as much service as it is feeding the homeless or changing the world or sharing cancer. That's a great answer, yeah. Greatness is not about changing the world.

It's about changing the world around you and changing the world within you. and being in that evolution of growth and transformation and saying, how can I continue to level up myself and the people around me? That might be three people. But if you're doing that, it's making a ripple

on so many more. Like, one of you. Oh, you're such a good dancer. Thanks, buddy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was like, there's so many, or sharing cancer. That's a great answer, yeah. You know what, and you lived that, and that's what I love about it. There's a couple of things that I wanna point out, and I wanna ask you how you've done these things sometimes. I was talking to, I remember I went to lunch with Matthew Hussey, who's a dear friend of ours, and you know, you've been friends with him a lot longer, but you always told me I'd get along with him, and we do. And I went for lunch with him, and you guys had just all been on Red Table Talk for an episode, and it was you and Stefan- So, Devon Franklin. And Devon Franklin, and Matthew.

And Matthew was saying that the whole time, because there were so many of you- It was like eight of us around the table, it was more people. There were lots of questions, and it was like everyone obviously had so much value to add. Everyone on that table has beautiful insights, but you were kinda like doing layups for everyone else. So it's like everyone was sharing their insights, but you were the guy who was like passing it to everyone on the thing, and you have loads of great insights, too, but you were happy to play. And I just wanna say that you practiced what you preach, and that you do that even when you have an opportunity to shine. You're happy to pass the ball. Like, you are happy to pass the ball go, no, you slam dunk. You take the three pointer. You take that. And people notice that, right? The right people who are aware, they notice that. And they recognize that, oh, this person actually is meaning what they're saying.

And that was just a private lunch I was having with a mutual friend of ours. It wasn't like a show or anything. And I wanted to share that. But the other part of what I see in you, you're so good. And you talk about this in the book, about enlisting support. You're so good at finding a coach, going to a class, getting a teacher, doing a course. I give that advice all the time. And I think we give that advice all the time. We're like, just start doing a course. Like, do this, do that. And because it's real, because we've experienced it in our own lives. Like, by the way, I'm only a public speaker because my parents forced me to go to public speaking classes.

So I've been to seven years of nine hours a week with exams of public speaking training from age 11 to age 18. That's great. It's courses, right? I would say anything in the world is trained, is learned, is built. And I think we live in a world now where we think, that's a God-given talent, or you don't have it. When you actually start to realize that, oh, the person you think that can dance, yeah, they might have had some cool skills. I could not dance a lot. You could not dance at all. But now, when I see you, when I've seen video and stuff, I'm like, you're a great dancer, right? And I think people could say the same for speaking, business. You've talked about dyslexia. Yeah, like so many things.

So let's talk a bit about that, because I do think that education and training are the pathway to transformation and growth. Reading a book is that crossing the line. Like, I was saying to someone yesterday that I have this habit where I look at what my block is every season almost using your language. And I will go and find books, interviews, and podcasts on that problem. Yes. And so I was in so many bookstores over Christmas because I love booksharts. And I was just walking around. And I would walk around just as like, I was given this example yesterday. I was like, if you're out of milk at home, you go to buy milk. You don't just go, oh, I'll just use washing up liquid instead. But if you're out of discipline, what we do is you go, yeah, go buy some discipline. What we do is we go, oh, I'll just watch Netflix then.

And it doesn't solve the gap. Like, if you're out of cereal at home, you don't just go, oh, I'll just eat chips for breakfast. You go and buy cereal. And so I look at my life in that way, like a grocery store, and I go, what is it that I need in my life? OK, maybe right now I need to become a better leader. OK, maybe right now I need to become a better husband. Right now I need to become a better interviewer, or whatever it may be. And then I'll go and look for that. And it sounds like you do the same. How have you found the ability to, a couple of things. The first thing is find good classes and coaches and mentors. Because I think a lot of people struggle with knowing like, do I trust this?

Do I not? Good question for people to ask. And second part is, how do you commit and stay on top of it when naturally like it's easier to just sit at home and watch TV?

Two things. Devon Franklin. There's like eight of us around the table, there's more people. You take others. It wasn't. Please do that. Wow, that's great. It's courses, right? You say business, you've talked about dyslexia. Yes, me too. What we do is we go... Yeah, and it doesn't do so much.

How do I commit and stay on top of it?

I pay in advance. Right, that's a great way. I pay in advance.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I pay my nutrition and fitness coach in advance. I pay my therapist and emotional coach, a year in advance. And we schedule it every two weeks for the year. So I've got money invested.

I've got time and calendar organized committed in advance. I pay my year yeah, yeah, so it's not like I'll pay you every week when I come. No leaving the meeting gets set up

It's not one time. No, even the meeting gets set up. It's not one class at a time It's a block of time in advance. It takes time. It was discipline. Yeah for discipline when you're invested in it You pay more attention to it as our friend did graphs He says he says You pay attention to what you pay for Right and you'll pay more attention when you pay more money typically I'm not saying you need to spend tons of money a lot of things that I've gotten from Free mentorship whether it be people just giving me time me learning from podcasts books videos courses things like that that were free And available online, but I've always seen Accelerated results when I invest in something yeah when I invest in someone something and I know I've got to do a period of time To complete it. That's number one number two. And how do I find them? I have you know who to trust How do you how I know to trust I I typically ask people that I respect so I'll ask you Hey, hey do you know someone who can help me on this? So I trust and respect you if you have a referral then Then I'll probably trust that person or at least I'll jump on a call But otherwise it's you know You can find a lot of people online and see what they're creating how their energy is their vibe and things like that that you can consume some of their information. You can see testimonials, you can check in with those testimonials or referrals. So I just kind of follow that process.

And I'll always do like an intro session with someone if it's a coaching to see like, do we really connect before I commit a year in advance or three months in advance. So it's making sure that they've got results that I respect. And they've worked with people and help them overcome challenges that I respect as well. Then it becomes more, more of a thing that I trust jiving into. And to go back to what you were saying just before that, about kind of giving people layups and stuff. I wasn't like that until 10 years ago. I mean, in some ways I was, but it wasn't until 10 years ago when I had this kind of initial transformation of letting go of big parts of my ego, where I said that I have to be extreme in a sense the other way. Because I was so competitive, I wanted to be right. I wanted to win. I wanted

to be number one at everything. I can't imagine you like that as full as discipline. Yeah. People layups and stuff thing, I can't imagine you like that. I can imagine. I know you're competitive in sport and obviously, but like, as an energy, that's, yeah, I didn't know

you then. Maybe people didn't feel it, but internally that was driving me. Right? In a lot of ways. And it was all based on a wound that I hadn't healed yet. Once I started to heel I was like oh wow I've had this all wrong everything was win-lose to me as opposed to win-win so ten years ago I actually learned the concept of win-win for the first time or at least I understood it for the first time maybe I'd heard it as a kid but I didn't embody it until I was able to face that and wake up to it and that's why I was like okay I'm gonna start this show it's not gonna be about me it's gonna shine the light on everyone else I want to practice this I want to overcome this consistently and I was really inspired by Oprah where she just always shined the light on others right for 20 something years and she's talked about it before it's like when you shine the light there's always a reflection of light back on you and the more you do that for more people over time you become brighter in return and it's not the goal to become brighter necessarily for selfish reasons but it's true it naturally happens you're reflected the light back on you and I think that's a beautiful thing you know something that you do so well by lifting others up it's something that I try to do really well by lifting my friends up like we did on Red TableTalk when you know Jada is asking a question I'm like gosh I know Stephon has the perfect answer for this because I've heard him say this three times yeah so I go Stephon you know what to say here you know I don't wear it when Mathew had a different perspective on something else was like Matthew man and you said this amazing thing about this before, can you share what this is? Devon, I've heard you say this. So, you know, I learned this early on because I didn't feel like I had the answers or I was smart in my early 20s. So I wouldn't speak a lot from my perspective. I would just ask curious questions. And after a couple hours of meeting with someone, I never really spoke about me. I would just ask about them.

At the end of the conversation, they were like, man, you're the most interesting person I've ever met. And I was like, I didn't share anything about my life, I just ask you questions. But people wanna feel that you're curious and interested in them,

and then they'll think you're extremely interesting. But I'll just ask you questions. Yeah, and I feel like it's also just something that you also naturally listen. And I think a lot of these things are often used as techniques. And they don't come across as genuine because if you ask a question, you actually have to listen and then you actually have to remember and then you'd ask a follow up question and I think sometimes you can tell when it's disingenuous or- Yes, you can feel when it's off.

You can feed it from my laugh, like. Yes, yes. Feel when its off, like. Maybe it is something.

Yeah, when you feel like it's a technique where someone's coming at like, you know, whenever people used to give the advice of like, I'll reach out and do something for free for someone and then someone will do that for you But then they come back with like this and then you're like, oh, wait a minute. I thought you were doing this for free. Yeah, I was doing it for free. And you start realizing just like it has to be done so genuinely. And people will respond to that. I had a, you know, I had a rule that, and I still have it too, like, I never took pictures with celebrities unless they were on the show or in a meaningful connection. There was never a clout grab. Like it wasn't like, I'm in this place, I've seen this person, let's get a picture just to like, show off who you're hanging around with. It was like, no, if I have a relationship with that person or they're on a podcast and there's a meaningful interaction or we're doing something together, because it's just like when, when people feel used and you're using people in that way, and there's no genuineness, it kind of just, like, it feels really cheap and, it comes across that way too. And it actually blocks you having a real relationship. And so when you're asking interesting questions and I know you do that all the time, but I also know you're listening because then we'll bring it up again in another conversation, and so I think there's a real truth to that. I also my own personal coaching practice.

I said a new rule, and this was something that took me a while to understand, but it really helped me, so anyoneIs that I privately coach, we have a fee of my time, but the entire fee goes to the charity of their choice. That's cool. I have a fee. We count up the hours like I would any coaching practice, but the amount goes to a charity of their choice. That's cool. came a way of that I could feel I was serving and I could give myself. And I wanted the person to also feel like they were getting the feeling of giving back rather than always paying for stuff. Because I found that a lot of people always felt that they could pay for anything and they could buy anything. And I wanted them to feel the opposite, where it's like they weren't buying anything, they were getting to give away. And yeah, so I've never talked about that before, but I wanna share it with you. Because it was just something that I was thinking about, like, I wanted to find a method where I could give my heart to someone and they could give their heart to me and I found, sometimes, that money got in the way of the heart. Interesting.

And so, like, in friendship, there's no money exchange, hence there's a heart space and so, in coaching, I had to find a way... That's cool. Yeah, and that was my way and it's, like, been a beautiful commitment... And it's great unless, I thought you were doing

this for free, we're goin' to post it yet. Yeah, if we hang it, there's no yet there choice. Yeah. That's cool. Rather than shooting. That's cool, yeah, that's cool. It's amazing. Yeah. Interesting, that's cool. It's great unless it gets like overwhelming with coaching clients and you have no time.

Yeah, of course, I don't. I don't. I have like six, seven people that I work with. So it's not something that I'm looking to grow

in a business sense. Six, seven people that I work with. Where are you looking to grow in your life right now? After a month of reflection of this end of year season of last year of being your, honestly your biggest year ever, and in so many ways from the business to success to speaking, to the podcast growth, to YouTube, to video, celebrity clients, all the talk shows you've been on, all these things that have happened, what was the big reflection for you

and where do you see yourself moving in this next year? So obviously this year, the new book is out, A Rules of Love, so my heart's in love. The tour is happening for the first time. I'm really excited to like hug people and hold their hands and look into their eyes. I think I'm like, I've always been a hugger. We just hugged for like-

And by the way- And everyone watching right now are listening, when you hug Jay in person, just whisper in his ear and hug him long and say, this was from Louis. Cause that's what I do with Jay, I hold him so long and I whisper to him,

I'm like, I love you. That's what I do with Jay, I hold him so long and I whisper to him, I'm like- But there's a joy in that like, I love physical connection. I love the idea that I'm actually gonna, Like, you know, I feel so grateful that for six, seven years I've been doing this. I haven't met 99% of people, you probably feel the same way. And I just like, I feel so grateful and I want to kind of like out pour all of downstage to everyone who's going to be there because there's so much gratitude built up in me that I haven't been able to, me saying it in a microphone doesn't do it justice and traveling around and doing a hectic schedule and doing all this craziness is really an output. It's totally from a gratitude point of view, because there's, there's nothing else to it of why you'd go on tour. So I'm excited for that. And then if I'm completely honest, I'm excited for rest study and creativity. I'm really looking forward into the next half of the year where my plan is to go more internal and learn and study again and research and read more. I do that all the time, but I mean do it even in a more obsessive, constructive way and, and spend more time just being creative and being present because I feel like I've been really going all out for like the last six, seven years now. And it's been so meaningful and powerful and beautiful, but at the same time, I'm conscious that to have the next seven years be even better than it's been, it's going to require this pit stop. And my monk teacher would always say, if you want to go three steps forward, you have to go three steps deep.

And so this is the time to go three steps deep in order to go three steps forward again. And so I feel after going all this forward that I've done, it's time to go deep again and and I feel that internally.

And forward, and that's great.

and I'm ready for that, at hard and forward and that's great and I'm ready for that after this month off but after that I'm already planning

I'm curious. I know this interview is about me but I can never not ask you questions no matter when we're doing this stuff. I'm curious, if you could fast-forward in your heart and your mind one year and just imagine everything that has happened. You're pouring your energy into everyone. The gratitude you're gonna give to all this community, you know, tens of thousands of people that are going to be in person over the next few months supporting you, seeing you, and make sure you guys, if you haven't bought the book, get his book right now as well. What do you think is going to be the lesson you're going to learn at the end of this year? If you could be in the future, what do you think your soul is going to tell you that it's going to be the lesson and the thing for you to step into or let go of into the next year?

I think the lesson will be to, and everyone needs to do this, and it comes back to your point of season is to live in the season that you have reached. And what I mean by that is that there was a different energy that it took to get here and it will be a different energy to move forward and I think it's really interesting because I think we often stay in the same energy state multiple years of our life because we got used to it or we got familiar with it and then years go by before you realize you needed an energy shift. And I think when you see people who are burnt out, lost or confused or feel like they wasted time, it's because they never realized that they stayed in the same energy state that they were in when they started. And you have to accept that time has changed and life has moved on and you've learned new things and you've gained new clarity and so I think that that will be the lesson and letting go I think will be I want to do I feel like to get to this point I had to do a lot of what I didn't love and I think that that should always get less and less and less so I think a healthy life isn't one where you only do what you love but it's a life where you do less and less of what you don't love and so I feel like my life's always moving in that direction and I think in a year from now I have all the clarity and all the opportunity to start afresh as opposed to continuing to just exist in the world of repeating what's been done. Yeah. If that makes sense. It's good insight. Your future self is wise. Yeah, yeah, hopefully, hopefully. I now have got to live up to it. Well, this is a beautiful question. It's could you make me make me vocalize and I hope everyone's getting to see how good Lewis is at what he does and what he does for himself too.

No, the question like that's great because it gives me something to live up to that I aspire for, right? And it reminds me of that Matthew McConaughey speech. Yeah, 10 years out. I love that speech. Chase up my hero 10 years away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's just like, it's the Oscar speech if anyone doesn't know, Dallas Buyers Club. He won the Oscar for best actor and he gives one of the best features of all time in my opinion. And yeah, it's that idea of just, yeah, it gives you something to chase, which is yours. It's you, it's not chasing, and I love that. And I think the question you just asked is the question you're asking yourself, which is why your life is going in the right direction, because the question isn't, where do you want to be in a year? What do you want to achieve?

Because that starts to, there's usefulness in that, I'm not saying it's not useful, but

the internal question is far more gratifying so you've given me something to do. Your future yourself is wise. Yeah, no, it's good you- 10 years out. I love, I love that. Chase up my hero 10 years away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've given me something to chase and pursue. It's awesome to have goals and dreams, but I think what's more important is focusing on the person you become on a consistent basis to create those dreams. And also being so proud and at peace of who you've become, even if the dreams don't come true. And there's been a lot of things that I've chased after where the dreams didn't come true, but the life was a dream come true. Who I got to meet, what I got to experience, what I overcame, the lessons I learned, the memories I created, who I got to meet. Certain dreams didn't come true, but it was a dream come true.

Totally, totally and oh, I love that. I love that so much, that's such a like- That's such a powerful statement and it's So true. I have so many projects that haven't worked out. It didn't work out. So many pitches, even we went to some pitches together that you set up for me that didn't work out. But the network I built through that relationship building, The connections I put. Who you became. Who it became, the skills I had to learn.

It didn't work out and you had to pay him. So you setup of it. Who it became, like skills. There's so many, you know, there was a lot of things I'll give an example. There's a lot of goals that I accomplished as an athlete that I was extremely proud of. And I was like, Man, set an intention for this goal 10 years prior, and I made it happen. But there are certain goals, like I wanted to be an Olympic athlete, right? And for eight and a half years, I play with the USA national team. And I never made the Olympics, right? And I haven't played with the team for about three years since right before the pandemic. And I can look back and say I spent eight and a half years of my life sacrificing, committing, dedicated, disciplined, traveling the world, spending time, money and energy, money and energy, playing a game to represent the USA to try to make the Olympics. And I failed and I failed it and I fell short.

Or I can look at it as man, what a life journey and experience I got to have for eight and a half years. I have so many great friends, memories, I traveled the world, wearing USA across my chest, getting to play against Olympians as a you know, 3567 year old, I was like, I didn't accomplish the dream, but it was still a dream come true. And I think when we look back on things that didn't work out, but find the meaning and the memory and the magic in those experiences, it's still an

incredibly beautiful life, the meaning, the memory and the magic. I love that. I love that. Because often we look for meaning. But you're so right, the memory and the magic. Lewis How's everyone? Lewis, that was that was special, man. That was really beautiful. I want everyone who's listening and watching right now to go and grab a copy of this book, The Greatness Mindset, unlock the power of your mind and live your best life today. It's available right now. If you're listening to this episode, make sure you go grab it. Where would you like them to get it from?

Apart from obviously Barnes and Noble

Amazon. It's really beautiful. I want to hear it. Yeah, Amazon

Barnes and Noble, wherever. Yeah, perfect. Yeah, make sure you go grab a copy. The audiobook as well is in Lewis's voice. Yes, Lewis reads the audio. So make sure you go and grab the audio. If you like listening to books as well, because I know so many of you are audio listeners. And followed Lewis on YouTube, subscribe to his podcast, The School of Greatness and follow him on Instagram on TikTok on Twitter on every single social media platform that you use. As you saw today, Lewis practices what he preaches and also what he shares is highly life changing. So make sure you go

and grab it. I appreciate it. Is in Lewis's voice. Yes, Lewis reads the audio. I appreciate it, man. And real quick, before you finish it, I appreciate you talking about the book. And I want to give a call to action of people. Yeah, please. If you're going to buy my book, which I'm deeply grateful for, I want to see if you haven't bought Jay's book yet. Make sure to buy both of us at the same time. Take a screenshot. I love that.

And tag both of us on Instagram, letting us know that you got both books at the same time. That'd be so cool. That'll be awesome. I love that. I'm sure we'll I'm sure we'll reshare some of those on Instagram. So buy it on Amazon. Take a screenshot or if you got them both in your hands, do that, put it on Instagram for us to see and we'll, we'll share

both of those out. That'll be so cool. That'll be awesome. That'll be I love it. Lewis, thank you so much brother. Bracere If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with Kobe Bryant on how to be strategic and obsessive to find your purpose.

Thanks, bro. Appreciate you, man. Thank you.