Is ALL DeFi Bullsh*t? with Brad Mills - Transcripts

November 21, 2022

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If you had been paying attention to the guest on today’s show, you may have gotten out of Luna or Celcius before they came crumbling down. His take on DeFi back on our April show got our attention. And with the aftershocks of FTX still rumbling through the crypto and financial world, we thought we’d invite him back to go deeper down the rabbit hole.

What is the next domino to fall and how you can avoid getting burnt? We’ll discuss with Brad Mills today on our “Is all DeFi BS?” Episode #651 of The Bad Crypto Podcast. 



00:00 - Intro
07:30 - When were you first talking about FTX and the red flags? 
11:30 - Is all DeFi a scam? 
14:30 - What does this mean for Ethereum? 
16:09 - You’re mentioning there are other risks in the market. Which of these coins have the greatest risk for you? 
25:40 - Rebasing entered the market; what the hell is this?!
30:51 - What exactly drives the market cap of cryptocurrencies? 
32:30 - Exactly. P/E ratios are often bogus in crypto. 
35:30 - How connected do you think the FTX and SBF fallout is to the US government? 
37:35 - The New York Times put out this puff piece on Sam Bankman-Fried. What are your thoughts on mainstream media journalism? 
40:15 - Sam was printing tens of billions of dollars, just like Binance, Andreseen Horrowitz, Coinbase and others. 
45:30 - CZ at Binance was public about his liquidation of FTT, earning Travis’ respect. What are your thoughts? 
47:15 - They are scheduling a hearing about FTX. Let’s look back at Sam’s Tweets. He’s now coming out and saying he wants to try again and make it all back. Even Kevin O’Leary is willing to back this guy again! 
54:00 - Do you think the government is going to come out and say these are all unregistered securities and everything will go to zero? 
58:15 - Give a warning around CBDCs to people. 
1:11:11 - Closing Remarks

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Do your own due diligence and research. Joel Comm and Travis Wright are NOT FINANCIAL ADVISORS. We are sharing our journey with you as we learn more about this crazy little thing called cryptocurrency. We make NO RECOMMENDATIONS. Don't take anything we say as gospel. Do not come to our homes with pitchforks because you lost money by listening to us.

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if you've been paying attention to the guest on today's show you may have gotten out of Luna or Celsius before they came crumbling down his take on D. five back on our April show got our attention and with the aftershocks of F. T. X. still rumbling through the crypto and financial world we thought we'd invite him back to go deeper down the rabbit hole what's the next domino to fall and how can you avoid getting burnt we'll discuss with Brad mills today on our is all D. five B. S. episode number six hundred and fifty one of the bad crypto podcast par for is there anything even real anymore it's hard to tell the primary listing this podcast to see if what you think you know as he arrived at all as all the five June is a bullshit yeah what how do we even know this guy in the past is called several other pretty correctly called Luna he said he probably will you know Celsius Hey you probably have to actually look like a bunch of bullshit and then we had yeah we had to bring it back again he's he's got a lot of content many words were excited talk about him and we've got a bonus segment that is not in the show where he's going to give his take on an F. T. is we want to give that N. F. T.

we want to give that clip to you in the form of an N. F. T. for free we'll tell you how you can get it here after the interview by the way welcome to the bad crypto podcast I'm told all I I'm starting to show up today


it's good good that you're here I'm here near here and if you don't have the nifty club right there you need to go do it you can go to bad crypto dot I'm cut dot FM and get one it's like point zero zero two he was very well because we want to just you know we don't want the box to grab a bunch because that's how they roll we're not trying to have faith remembers many things we're gonna start dropping dropping and we're gonna start dropping even more cool things in there so he got the drug three so far and and I guess we'll tell you about it now instead of after the interview but you need this back crypto nifty club membership go ahead and grab yours and you know you're gonna need to have this one let's see the this episode is dropping on I believe Sunday the twentieth so you need to have one of these in your wallet by thanksgiving day and then once you got it you're entitled to all the free drops that we give as well as other benefits so far there been three drops exclusive entities and we want to give you the Brad mills bonus N. F. T. his thoughts on N. F. T. is it's a two minute video clip and F. T. exclusive for you guys but let's find out what Brad thinks about everything but and if he is now in this exclusive interview with this is a really rare moments I think our guest today is the fastest repeat gassed we've ever had on the show Travis it was may fifteenth of this year that we had Brad mills on to talk about stable coin lunacy which would have been episode number let me consult my notes here opposite number six oh wait it but there's been so much happening in the crypto world and I'm gonna brandy personal thank you here in a moment but first I want to welcome him back to bad crypto how you doing man

I'm doing all right now it's you know got heavy bags of bit coin and I'm carrying the through the mountain in the storm but I'm doing all right otherwise expected this so I'm not surprised by sudden drops in my net worth those I was I was waiting for is never happy to see it happen but sake and all the other people that are you know not heeding warnings and we're stuck in FTX and Celsius and stuff like that but yeah thanks for bringing me back

well I let me start with the the thank you it was having you on the show I I hardly lost anything with U. S. two year loan eyes had little trace amounts in their I know a lot of people really got hurt but when you were on the show we talked about Celsius and some other defy platforms and you raise the red flag over Celsius and I was like you know what I'm gonna listen to this guy and I pulled a substantial amount of money out of stable coin that I had Celsius I think now my account has maybe twenty five thirty dollars left in it and it was two weeks before they locked it down so domo arigato

exceeded the here I'm glad I helped a couple people man is good to hear that you that you listen that was a bunch of people were just kind of then now you just a maxi just don't like anything about bitcoin you're just fighting so I mean that that's what happens with tribalism so okay kind of convinced you know that the guy that founded the project is good and that would never scam and but yeah no thanks for that that means a lot that I helped you and I got a couple texts from friends as well that you know one of my friends had a I think we should be he said he had put a million dollars into Celsius is entrepreneur entrepreneur friend of mine that it sold as business and I was like dude get that out like it's not worth the risk and he did he took it out thankfully I had another friend who's a bit coin I'm kind of like he's like a fund manager type guy it ten million dollars in Celsius and and I mean that that's that's a significant amount of money right so he was initially skeptical to take it out he was saying things like well in terror or the cold the Quebec pension funded due diligence on Celsius they would've invested institutional money if this wasn't a safe platform and I was just thinking man like you you know Bernie made off was the chairman of nasdaq for many years he ran a successful Ponzi scam institutional investors are just as dumb as the rest of us when it comes to formal they just that the greed and the the the relationship kind of clothes you want to be able to get to associate with somebody that's on fire on a rocket ship it clouds judgment and thankfully after a little bit of cajoling me a couple friends can convincing him he took his money off too so it's we've definitely heard stories of people that we've helped the the the big coin Maxie's have helped people get out so I'm I'm glad that you were able to get out you weren't hurt by that

millions that you're saved people I guess great writing itself so we know we have T. acts as a big W. what what not aftershocks were just went on we've talked about it we saw that it happened I I don't know how deep we want to go into that right now Joel what you are is that we want to do I want to go into and talk about that yeah I think we can talk a little bit about it but you you warned about this as well right yeah it went when were you talking about F. T. acts and yeah I mean the red flag

back back in January when I started first paying attention to the the large growth in the five Ponzi schemes like home protocol Wonderland protocol terra Luna I started to realize that this massive bubble was gonna blow up the same as that as other bubbles and Ponzi is in the traditional markets have before because they basically just rebuild everything that was toxic and and over leveraged nonsense from the traditional markets in crypto and they call that innovation and they put it on a blockchain call the defy well it doesn't take like a lot of digging to start to realize it's unsustainable like to be able to get that kind of yield ten twenty percent yield when we're at like historically low interest rates in traditional markets something risky extremely risky is going on there and every time that there was a huge bit hack click a the worm hole bridge got hacked or there's a problem with the Luna the lunar you know exit door the the protocol only had a certain amount of liquidity for you to get out to to burn the UST tokens and turn it back in the lunar and then sell the loner like there's only so much liquidity and as these things grow so big they just become unsustainable and F. T. acts like Alameda three hours capital jump which is another one that still hasn't gone down yet that's at risk of it and a bunch of other big huge VC firms like paradigm in A. sixteen Z. all these like bellwether VC brands I mean they're all kind of doing all this to generate stuff and bailing out all these hacks that always happen defy and trying to provide liquidity into the system like a central bank does and we saw this at the turn of the century in the nineteen twenties when the stock market sort of when the big panic happened the stock market crash there was a lot of risky over leverage nonsense happening and JP Morgan would go around and like actually give cash to pensions and insurance funds in banks to try to keep the wheels greased so that you know you don't see liquidity lock ups because when you see the liquidity lock up that's when you run into big problems because people start to panic and they have fear and then they start to pull their money out naturally get a run on the bank so you have this like huge growth of people just thinking they're so smart and they're investing all their money they're making tons of money and then a bunch of retail get sucked in because they see their fault they see the farm all of all these returns that everybody else are making so the retail players come in they're not as sophisticated and then there's all this like reputation sort of osmosis that happens where somebody wants to invest in this superstar because they want to be associated with them and they don't necessarily do any due diligence so they don't they don't they say like oh well so once I was in so I don't need to do my due diligence you know A. sixteen Z. as in I don't need to do my due diligence they already

had it we're just gonna

we're gonna jump into this rocket ship so then you get into the situation or just grows too big and it's all unsustainable so back in January you started to see like these these guys that were really the the trying to act like the central bankers of all this defying crypto lending and yield farming and all that stuff bailing out to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars of what's like every month jump capital had to build the worm hole bridge for three three hundred million FTX Alameda three hours capital like all these guys were each kind of doing these payloads and and was hundreds of millions of dollars every time it was happening and even in the case of lunar was to the tune of I think two or three billion wasn't it that they announce they're gonna put up to your house for the elegy

yeah so I got a question around that this would you say that pretty much all defy at this point is a scam because when I first saw the files like do I just not understand this or does this kind of seem like a Ponzi there literally printing money from no where and so I was always like what the hell's the deal on that I never really got it I didn't think unless it just seems like it's maybe a scare

well I I do believe that it's built on on ethical foundation unethical foundation and like a a sort of a grift the the insider game wail wail game that most of crypto is actually where they they see the reason why jump on A. sixteen Z. and all these folks will bail defy and crypto companies and stuff


they own massive bags of tokens and they are also providing liquidity in making the markets and they can they can use this meteoric success of the the irrational idea that you can just print a token and then market make it on your exchanger on or put in a hundred two hundred million dollars of liquidity in a defy protocol and say that that's valuable I mean SPF himself described this back in April may as basically a black box Ponzi scam when he was talking to Joe weisenthal on on Aug lots and I mean they were very surprised that he acknowledged that like what they had built was basically Ponzi scams and that's B. F. at the time said something critical he said if the world decides that what we did was okay then you guys are wrong you know by saying by judging that this is not ethical is not right now it's illegal but it's a Ponzi scam but if the world decides in a coordinated way that what we did was wrong then we're gonna be in trouble so so they were cool all these guys were clearly aware that what they were doing this whole foundation of defy yield farming dowels N. F. T. like all the stuff that they used to pump coins and Scala web three it was it's no different than the last cycle that we we all saw happen which is ICO's and masternode coins giving you yield and all this stuff it's got this proven the SEC came out and said that this is not in compliance but the idea that you can just do it with smart contracts you know instead of people and companies issuing tokens it's like always smart contract is issuing the tokens but we're just gonna pre mine it with our huge billion dollars of liquidity we just pop into the defy protocol so the form of defy that got built on crypto is extremely risky mostly unethical graphs that L. just gets B. C.'s read insiders rich because they're the ones are pretty mine and they're the ones that have the massive pools of liquidity the put in to get all the tokens out

and then what does this mean then took to if they're him what do you think you know what worry or your thoughts and metallic in the theory I'm in the whole ERC twenty and all of the protocols I know what you think about NFT she told us about that last time but let's just go right to the you know the the root of it


so so tough to kind of like answer the first question I never you fully got to the end of


it it is all related and it's kind of confusing you gotta you gotta draw one of those like conspiracy maps are on the board and I put all the pins together sort of connect this narrative in this logic flaming it up U. S. like was it obvious that if the X. is going to come down and I described the the foundation that this whole thing was built on and how that enabled extreme risk taking and suspension of logic to be able to value something like an FTT token in the in in the multi billions tens of billions of of range and there's lots of examples of that's not just FTT token there's lots of tokens are just Michael sailors been common air tokens you know they just just full of hot air and and it really is kind of insidious because the VC's hold bags of it the VC's are the liquidity pool providers the and the traders work with the VC's to do market making and mark the price up and keep the prices high so they they do that and then the borough against the tokens that's the worst part they borrow against them and use them as collateral oral against them and then go pump more stuff in defying and crypto they just go

I have apologised for that is because you're you're mentioning that there is you know there's others you know let's go ahead issued the warning in your opinion as we look at defy hearing coin gecko you know which of these coins have the biggest red flag for you

so the way that I see that this contagion continuing to play out is not necessarily a specific coin right now that's going to go down I think if anybody lives through the bear market of two thousand eighteen and two thousand nineteen and maybe even participated in the saft market where people in two thousand seventeen the saft market was like super hot like telegram ICO for example was this really exclusive I see that you know they had raised a couple billion dollars from private investors and a lot of the crypto funds in crypto traders were just really wanted to get a piece of the telegram ICO

I would also say this is that in that time there's not a lot you could do with your theory right if you have a theory of what you could do with it well you can trade it and use it to buy some things but it was mostly participate in ICL's there wasn't a whole lot of stuff you can do if you're if you're in yet do thousand seventeen eighty

well it's so so we're back and we're in that we're in that cycle where Ethereum was pumps from one of the ten dollars to fourteen hundred dollars or something like that in two thousand seventeen January two thousand eighteen was the peak and that's based on the back of the whole dapp NFT crypto kitties with the first one but daps and FT's and ICO's that was really what drove a lot of FOMO into the Ethereum token because you had to go buy Ethereum to go buy an ICO or to use you know crypto kitties and that was really what drove the demand for Ethereum along with just general crypto FOMO because one bit coin goes up you have this this like rising tides thing because the regulators hadn't given clear guidance as to what these things all are so at in two thousand seventeen there was no clear guidance that like maybe Ethereum was the security and there is risk there maybe ripples of security maybe ninety percent of the stuff the securities they shouldn't be traded on regulated exchanges there was no clear guidance yet so the thing went crazy and then what happened through two thousand eighteen and two thousand nineteen people started to reel it will the SEC start coming out with clear guidance that you couldn't do unregistered securities offerings they announced that the Dow was the security the original dial was the security and the originalist theory my CEO was a securities offering they didn't make any specific concrete statements as to whether or not you was a security currently but they clearly said that if you're doing an unregistered ICO thing you're not in compliance with securities laws and that the original sale of Ethereum's Gerrity and then bit coin was not because it wasn't sold to anybody so bit coins the only sort of real decentralized property that exist in the crypto space and so that's where you were in two thousand seventeen in two thousand eighteen and nineteen after the SEC came out with their statements it took a good year for people to realize wait a second this markets don like Ethereum's going down for a long time crypt those just going to go crater this either gonna go negative ninety five percent or zero in most cases because people that had all this fall more to try to get staffs that they had missed in the ball round there they were buying things still at the at about this time October November two thousand eighteen which is about exactly where we are in the time line of this bear market where it October or November two thousand twenty two which is very much the same as a November two thousand eighteen people started realizing wait a second maybe I shouldn't be buying staffs for these hot I see that I couldn't afford or couldn't get access to in two thousand seventeen at a at a fifty percent sixty percent discount maybe I'm actually burning my money and what I should be doing is selling everything and going and a bit coin or just taking my money back if you're not convicted enough on bit coin to hold it like just just go back into dollars and leave because everybody had the hope you in the fuel of all that excitement and all the money that they were making in the in the bubble and they never reconciled until probably


you know like early two thousand nineteen people start realizing like the SEC is not backing down from all these non compliant ICO's and all this stuff is way way over valued so all these all these people that were that used east to buy ICO's and like you know do there was taxes back then either delta was a popular decks Bancor was a popular dax people were using east there was lots of pairs you could trade against there was a kybernetwork and zero X. protocol like there's a whole bunch of defy stuff that was built back then and people were using it for it but it still didn't prevent the the absolute carnage in the markets in two thousand nineteen as people started to realize that all the stuff was not in compliance and you know it was like a liquidity squeeze and everybody just wanted liquidity that's what the story of two thousand nine was everybody just wanted liquidity so that the bid for staffs just completely disappeared there's a bunch of funds that went bankrupt and then like a bunch of staff got dumped on the market and people are just realizing wait everybody's trying to get their money back a bunch of these ICO projects were just selling their east to get back to dollars because the price of youth was cratering is down like sixty percent or seventy percent so it was a game of chicken where the ICO's that'd raise hundreds of millions of dollars realize we're we're gonna have to fund our projects and if it keeps going down we need to sell at the beginning in the in the rah rah bull market everybody was thinking like I won't sell if you won't sell because of we all hold our east it's going to go up in price and they'll all be on the moon right but as the bear market ground grinded on slowly it was just nothing but like negative negative pressures and contagion from people realizing they have to sell all that east treasury and there's really nothing you can do it with ease in the ICO markets and the SEC shut down either delta they find the founder and they made them shut it down so it was clear like they came out and stated like these decentralized exchanges are not in compliance because all they do is enable our and our registered securities trading so we like we have

we got to leave that for the for the real criminals and in the in capital

at Wall Street yes

Wall Street Capitol Hill we are we've got to there well

look part of it is that they had you know and this is not it's not bad to acknowledge this like they have a monopoly a monopoly on money laundering and crime in the traditional banking system I mean that so you think about it like they have such a stranglehold they have the law on their side they have the guns right they are not just going to sit by and allow token creators and V. season Silicon Valley and you know quant dabs over in the Bahamas to be able to just like take over the business and decentralize them and dis intermediate Wall Street and and Capitol Hill they're not going to allow that so obviously they're going to use the S. E. C. they're gonna use the the DOJ and the fat of regulations and fins and and all these regulators that they already have put in place this to sort of keep their control of everything they're gonna use it and so the way that like do you know all this was a nonsense bubble in two thousand seventeen we realize that we saw the flush of in two thousand eighteen nineteen everybody learned lessons well what happens in twenty twenty you know the federal reserve starts pumping trillions of dollars into the markets keeps interest rates that a lot lower than they've ever been in history and and and like the the regulators just stand back and think that because they made all these statements before they're not gonna have to deal with crypto anymore because all dead increase in Horowitz and all these big VC firms start just basically wash trading and pumping money into into this new thing that they called liquidity mining or yield farming they created this yield farming concept in twenty twenty and so they piled hundreds of millions of dollars and this is where the Alameda team like the F. T. X. team started to really shine because they were like first in that Ponzi and they created their own like they created the salon a blockchain with serum dax and FTT token and a whole bunch of other ICO's things that they launch which were all defy sort of like related projects to compete with Ethereum and the increase in Horowitz a paradigm Coinbase Ethereum maximalist crowd and then there is binance at the same time doing they launch binance marching they decided well we want to compete with Ethereum broken anyway the fees are a thousand dollars to unwrap your bit coin if you wanted to put big goin on rapid on Ethereum and use it for do you find then take it off you be paying a thousand dollars in fees just to get it off so so long on binance and all these other layer one started to compete and they all started to doing the same like infrastructure funds where they would basically put up a billion dollars of capital of of like honey pot capital to get dads to come fork things over from Ethereum and build on salon and build on avalanche and all you saw was really the rise of like legitimate nonsense Ponzi schemes like omen Wonderland and stuff like that which if anybody's got caught knows I'm sorry but they they grew to

multi billions as well I know a lot it's called re basing come on

yeah the re basing the relay racing

we thought we were like what the hell is this I played around is a little bit there on and I was like what

fifty thousand percent eight required total yeah you totally logical right fifty that's why so

what fifty thousand maybe one more time

some of them were millions can I remember Kim she was one that wasn't defy summer twenty twenty at one point was a million percent APY but obviously there's a whole slew of like really risky nonsense stuff but then there is some things that they actually built in D. fi that were interesting from a technology perspective like the concept of being able to do a decentralized exchange is is a worthwhile thing to try to build the idea of Eunice walk actually it was funny the founder of Eunice WAP Hayden Adams living his name is he was like pissed off that Bancor raised so much money and did an ICO and launch the Bancor token BNT he was like this kind of site for punk esque Ethereum Dev I don't think he had any perverse incentives or was a bad guy or anything like that I kind of respected him he was like pissed off that they raise a hundred million dollars and launch token he's like you don't need a token to do in a decentralized exchange so he forked the code and he just ripped out the token any just made you must walk and people started to use unify because there is no need for a token so that actually got people using it

some people I mean any creators okay

and then what yeah exactly then the VC's invested in them and then launch a token and made themselves a billion dollars printing these defy tokens it just clearly shows that there's like nothing but perverse incentives here and then like there is some truth when people say like oh well you can use decentralized exchange you can use of a barrel and protocols there's there's some curving yearning compound and all these different like lego blocks or whatever you wanna call them decentralized finance primitives yes the technology in some cases is interesting but that doesn't mean that it it validates the idea that you can just launch a token based on that the token has any value and we've seen that because a year and a half ago I won on Kobe's podcast up only with Kobe ledger Peter McCormick and he worked Wertheimer and I pretty much was predicting the collapse of the defy tokens they're all calling me like a boomer maxi saying you know you just don't understand it you don't think anything but bit coin is valuable I'm saying like no like funded Philly you guys are in a bubble logic you're drinking kool-aid look at the valuation of these defy tokens even even if we suspended the the the bit coin or logic and you know I'm just gonna come out this neutral right now I'm going to say okay let's say that curve has its token and we treat curve like a decentralized stock and not in a bad way not like it's a security thing yes yes yes I shut it down nothing like that just say that you value it like a stock well look a company value with something called the price to earnings ratio the P. E. ratio and you look at a lot of stocks in the in the on the public markets in their way over valued a lot of tech stocks a lot of tech stocks are like twenty thirty forty X. P. E. ratios which is just crazy but then you look at the fire and they were like a hundred ex two hundred ex four hundred X. P. E. ratios because these tokens they kind of are a like a


mechanic where if the protocol generates a million dollars a day in swapping fees then a portion of that is shared back to the curve token holders so I mean literally it's like a security but it's decentralized right so you can't you know whatever let's just forget about that argument say okay well if you value this thing based on fundamental logic then that chart you just showed me of all the coin gecko defy index everything is way overvalued even still even though we've gone through this bear market so far a year in or whatever things are still extremely overvalued because if you look at their P. E. ratios or how much how many fees they generate pay back to the token holders


insanely overvalued so I don't want to say that like curve token is a Ponzi scheme because I want to be correct in my criticism curve token is not a Ponzi scheme okay but what they did do was build a Ponzi scheme on top of curve token they build this thing called convex and convex is like a bribery mechanism that only the only goal of the convex protocol is to buy up as many curve tokens as possible and then allow protocol owners to bribe the convex token holders to allow them to get on the curve I mean it's insane it's like literally it's just a protocol for for unethical behavior on banks is just the most insane it's upon the nominal it's a Ponzi Namik mechanic on top

now makes hello yeah

it is not token onyx's Ponzi Namik yeah

so me ask you this then so you know some people are saying okay yeah the crypto market a trillion dollars already like what is it worth that much I mean I got up to honour the top top to certain trillion here we are way less than that three three and a half I want to say three and a half trillion wow okay up so I would get some of these I was like well what exactly does this is due to be worth several billion dollars right now like that was my thing with one of the tokens that I hit on I was like wait a second there's no way that economy vis vis the are where my token is worth two point six billion dollars right now I was like dude this is the top you got to sell it at least that's what I that's what I try to scream from the mountain silent and out in people you're an idiot you're you don't even know I was like well I know that they don't do two and a half billion dollars worth of business right now

right dude like it was not at the top of the bubble and this is why we get to the place where people overlook fraud like what's happening with Alameda and what's still happening in crypto markets with a lot of the people that are just trying to deflect blame and say same bank when freed was a fraud he's scam banks or fraud he's not he's not us we're not that's not the fire crypto like don't blame us but really it's they are all in this incestuous lake circle jerk of like token trading and liquidity mining like wash trading basically and pre mining and dumping on people and elevating this logic that like a JPEG monkey picture can be worth a million dollars or a curve token can have a four hundred X. P. E. ratio that makes any kind of St sense or

nonsense I agree price to earnings ratio here's the price here's the earnings seriously when you're talking about the stock market maybe it's a tenant maybe it's an attempt ten acts a price to earnings encrypt out seems like so much about being applied

yeah I mean it it in the end this is me trying to be generous and not say like these are all scams in a bit coins only thing you should pay attention to I'm trying to like take the like unbiased middle ground here as much as I possibly can because I'm very much like moral importance you know I have this moral implements when I look at all this stuff because it's just like I know that there's some person some VC taken advantage of retail people just printing all this money by selling people on the narrative that defies the future in this is web three and you're in control and blah blah blah one of them's the same people that ruined web two are actually just coming in here pre mining everything in launching it and then selling it to you saying oh this is a read write own this is web three you own it and now it's the VC's that ruin the first like the last bit version of the internet are pre mining and selling you dog **** and making you believe it's the you know you know drinking the kool-aid believing it's the future when I

see it das it is my favorite he likes to point with the question about the elephant in the living room or in this case the donkey even left leaning Axios is bringing the story out right now that millions of dollars millions went from being freed at the you is the second biggest donor to democratic campaigns and you know the mid terms just happened there are accusations out there that this was one of the biggest money laundering scandals like this is the biggest thing since Enron to happen you know I don't know where you are at politically but on its face does it appear like there's some really shady stuff going on with with crypto the Democratic Party Ukraine all of this is that all mixed together

in some ways I think it is I think that's there's there's two kind of ways to look at the the way that Sam was donating money to the Democrats there's let's assume just capitalists intent okay let's just assume he was a capitalist me got over skis you know by stealing customers money in trying to trade with it let's just say he got over his skis let's say he's not you know like you eat it okay let's just go on that logic path so he's a capitalist you try to make as much money as you can is trying to build the biggest exchanges as he possibly can and he's trying to get regulations passed for crypto so that he doesn't get regulated out of existence so that the world doesn't come together in a coordinated way to figure out this was all Ponzi scams and

send them to jail

so let's say that's the path well it would make sense because you know his his family like he has political connections and he's you know those what is it I think is is mom was at MIT or something like that like his dad's a lawyer that worked I think with the SEC or something there's there's there's definitely connections their government and and and

you know the elite

of the top universities of the United States so he has pedigree so he's seasoned and he he can he can have doors open for me easier than somebody like CZ who's you know like kind of playing fast and loose and shirking regulations cut so so Sam starts to like want to engage with U. S. regulators he sets up F. T. X. U. X. R. U. S. I mean he starts Democrat into the Democratic Party he starts to lobby lawmakers his you Caroline who is you know one of the people at Alameda which is the sister company there who wasn't in charge until the the CEO Sam for Boko stepped down back in August which is a huge red flag to me and I was tweeting about it and that he stepped down so she she kind kind of came in to lead Alameda and she has this connection in with Gary Gensler in this sort of likes two degrees of separation and that there's a relationship between her father who worked with Gary at MIT and then some other way his boss

okay just say it yes there's incestuous there is full happening here

there is but there's two ways to look at it like for sure no matter which way you look at it there's definitely like he's greasing the wheels and trying to use money to influence regulators to like favorably give him better access and put him in a stronger position so there's there's two ways to look at it one is the conspiracy way and one is the capitalist sort of way I'm like in the middle I kind of lean towards more the conspiracy one on this one because it sounds it it's a little bit too too crazy what half of that the acts

in this this adds fuel to it right here The New York Times puts out a puff piece

of any

reason we know New York times is extremely you know leftist Democrat leaning publications not even up for debate and they're getting called out on on this puppies of course by their competition at the New York you know post but then you've got Brian Armstrong saying that that Twitter's broke in just about every piece of F. T. acts New York times writing puff pieces on a critical for a criminal feels like a turning point for citizen journalism and loss of trust in MSM hello Mister Armstrong welcome to two thousand sixteen that this is not new this is more than six years old but we saw it really began to surface when trump came down that escalator and all of a sudden journalism went out the window

I mean it's been it's been a long it's a bit it's been a long history of biased reporting that I don't think even started in two thousand sixteen I think it got worse as centralization happened more in advertising and and social media news industry got worse and censorship

they lost their minds though when yeah well for sure that was that that was like whatever whatever level of lunacy they were at whatever trust they had they're like screw it we're going all in with our bias whatever it means

yeah it's it's it in you can look at it like they the Democrats were kind of dead or Democratic Party received the most done bonuses you had Bill Clinton on stage at the F. T. X. conference there it's it's obviously like they wanted they want to kind of protect their own they don't want to make it seem like they were complicit in this thing when when they really were also they want to minimize the impact of course and it's super bias because you know they put this hit piece out on Jesse Powell from crack in because he he was like kind of debating the the idea of cancel culture and things like that and they were just like offended morally that he would question the idea of like the the cancel culture thing so they put out the scathing sort of hit piece on him and then yeah once SPF comes out as a as a massive fraud they don't want to like make it look like that's the guy that was our guy right that was that was the guy that was the number one or number two donor to the Democratic Party so you know ten million or eleven million to Biden's campaign and was planning a billion dollars you know you saying is gonna give a billion dollars to democratic politicians but it's even it's even like less than the political thing I think like on the capitalist order crypto side the way that I look at it more is that look Sam was printing tens of billions of dollars just like Andreessen Horowitz just like Coinbase ventures just like binance just like three three euros capital was like all of these firms are doing the same degenerate like nonsense in some ways it was fraud that they were just printing your own tokens and they were propping it up with this concept of web three Indy five and pumping it with billions of dollars of money and liquidity and like getting people like Kate Katie Hahn from a sixteen crypto and like bloody string of Austin is a huge VC in the space to go on huge influential podcasts like the Tim Ferriss show and show this logic to people that you should you should pay attention to defy and put your money into it and then obviously all the nonsense today but the but the NFC's tying all that into where they're literally paying celebrities to shell stuff loading free stuff in their wallets and putting them on the Jimmy Fallon show I mean there's a lot of nonsense going on and when you think about it like bit coin is competing with every single other token on the planet every other cryptocurrency token is competing with big point they're all trying to like suck away investor mindshare and dollars and store of value people are true people were treating Jay pegs like store value people are looking at all other world or whatever the hell that thing was that the that the the eight people launched as you know if big points on the other side yeah we're going to for you you know by some by some other side by some eight point and it was being pushed by Coinbase and Robinhood now these big retail exchanges so from the top down you had all these all these people trying to push confusing bad logic to investors and high net worth individuals like Mike Novogratz who was literally Schilling Ponzi scams like Luna to high net worth individuals and roll Paul from real vision whose co founder of real vision was one of the biggest lunar shills there was and had all of his net worth and Luna

there are no regrets even got a a lunar tattoo

yeah so like look top down you had all these dumb logic be pushed from from other VC's are celebrity influencers that had influence on high net worth individuals and retail traders to suck in tens of millions of people and did like just suspending their logic and and going in gambling their money and all this crazy garbage so SPF is just one pillar in that there's lots of other colors there's the whole like I said Silicon Valley you know there's the beautiful tattoo right there I'm sure you do I like column Mike Novogratz instead of my get my game over Gratz

he he of course you know has to mea culpa on it and basically say well now it's it's just a reminder you know to him yeah I think that's the story right here net Luna tattoo is a constant reminder that investing requires humility did life requires humility Hey it's just that you know a lot if you get all proud about what you're doing life will take you down a peg just that's how the world

thinks I think you I think it's more insidious than that man like he was doing something highly unethical he's either a complete jackass Morente that doesn't see a Ponzi scam one serum in the face enough that he tattooed on himself which shows me he's just a literal EDS Waikiki's Justin on a moron if he's a money manager with that much money in Luna like tens of millions or more in Luna

or if

he's a liar and he knew what he was doing any knowingly sucked in millions of people to put their money in a Ponzi scam because what he did was two or three nights before the full thing blew up he pulled hundreds of millions of dollars out of it

man that's right

criminal I don't know what I don't know exactly if it was hundreds of millions it was significant money they'll like it with the other thirty million or three hundred million whatever what what doesn't matter really all the point is that he got people into the Ponzi scam he got his money owed everybody else got wrecked and then he says oh yeah I guess it's a reminder that you gotta have you mill around like he's he's no different than the wolf of Wall Street guy like suckering people in to penny stocks and I don't remember but John

it's like a chance like that dude who's the wolf of Wall Street guy was somebody Jordan bell fell short he like people he still puts on events and people still come to him as a girl and I'm like you don't fool me once shame on you fool me twice yeah me lotus you saw this like SPF is now coming out he did this whole long thread of cryptic tweets and now this is going to back him into leaving certain tweets somebody grabbed all of his tweets and saw that for every one new one that he would create a previous one got the lead oh my gosh that's only get into that I want to say this because I want to jump in I'm C. say Novogratz he basically pulled his money out didn't say **** CZ words I'm having more and more respect for all the time because he saw go down he said here's what we're gonna do we're gonna liquidate this FTG because it looks like it's not good and we don't like how they're operating and he was very public about it so to me I was like kudos to you bro iron a little respect for you additional

I agree with that man I think that's true I think C. CZ I'm just more inclined to trust him even though like I'm not recommending people use binance to put their money on binance but of all of all these crypto casino operators like CZ feels at least like he has reverence for bit coin any respects bit coin and he doesn't flood bit coin like that was the thing SPF was doing that like I'm saying it I don't I don't necessarily think it was so much a political cover up thing words like that the the powers that be in the traditional markets were actually just trying to prop him up and then you know he's actually C. I. A. I. agent or something like that and he's like he's a spoke and he actually blew the whole thing up on purpose to give them an excuse to come in and heavily regulate that's one of the conspiracy narratives going around I mean it's compelling because all the **** that happened that blew up with F. T. acts will cause a huge backlash from regulators but I think more so what it was just he had this opportunity to grab a hold of a market leader against binance if the world started to regulate crypto and if he was able to get regulations passed that gave his ship coin printing abilities a little run for their money

well they are definitely coming out now and saying that they scheduled a hearing to investigate what happened with the F. T. acts and of course it's just gonna be an opportunity for them to all grandstand and show how smart they are not listen to the actual people that are that are testifying and maybe maybe your conspiracy theory is accurate but you know let let's look back here it it Sam's tweets he comes out with all these cryptic tweets and now he's promising to try again to try to recover people's money and here's the part that gets me the most when we get to the full me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me Kevin o'leary says that he is willing to give he didn't vest in Sam bank when freed again which causes like whatever respect I had for Mr wonderful go are you your Mr stupid Mr hideous what in the world are you what do you know me well enough once all that is to other people that have just lost a lot of money and you're talking that you would invest in this the phone again well he was talking about how you know he's looking for one of these big companies to crash because that could be the moment that he could then go any easier I think that's near the bottom and we're talking on the theory that that John Brennan here had said well we're kind of like we were in November two thousand eighteen two thousand eighteen was near the low of crypto right and then now but two thousand eighteen there was not a big collapse of trust in the crypto space it was rebuilding people were taking their time they were holding well actually it wasn't

it was two thousand nineteen when the real bear market happened like two thousand eighteen was like the slow on wind of the bubble and then two thousand nineteen was really the capitulation phase it was long and brutal and the price of each one from fourteen hundred to something like I think four hundred in two thousand eighteen

no I went down to eighty nine Bucks down and this in November twenty eight twenty nineteen well the twenty nineteen members look at the wrong one that's what I saw was like almost ninety Bucks the one point so maybe I was going to one twenty nineteen

maybe it was I'm just going by memory on this I'm pretty I'm pretty sure the two thousand nineteen was like the real relation where we saw the leg saft liquidity go to zero a lot of altcoins they completely got de listed so their their prices went completely to zero and Easter's kept trending down down down down to eventually got to eighty dollars or so and that will just that was a you know that's like what I think is in for the next year that's that's what I believe is going to happen over the next year maybe two years at this point because what just what just transpired in the crypto markets is just insane like the fact that nobody saw this stuff it's just going to give the regulators next used to come in and say look these people are all children and scammers they can't be left alone in a room with each other they're gonna like start cannibalizing each other and they're gonna lose everybody's money so we have to come in and regulate this that they're not responsible and you know they got they're pushing Ponzi schemes and you can't see obvious fraud in front of their faces and look at all this insane regular unregistered broker dealer stuff happening and celebrities acting like promoters of complete garbage so we have to come in and regulate and this is gonna be good actually because it'll cause a lot more people think to finally be able to wake up and see the difference between bitcoin and crypto because right now it's very confusing because they can go out there and say absolute trash like people with millions of YouTube subscribers I have no business telling people advice on how they should invest their money have the respect in the whole market as if there's some kind of smart you know financial adviser that knows the difference between big coin and a defy token or an N. F. T. lands coin or whatever and comparing them almost the same so you end up with a lot of people getting into things like Celsius because they want yield or a lot of people going into the fight and thinking that they're doing gonna be doing yield farming and getting yield so I think it's important that they recognize that it's not just SPF was a fraudster it's not like they got to have some introspection and realize that they are the ones that enabled this market to get to a place where it can be a complete fraudulent base and grow massively to a point where it's gonna be literally Ponzi scams blowing up and burning tens of billions of people's dollars is that's where it got too and they're all trying to sidestep but right now you can see if you go on Twitter spaces or listen any interviews like well you just have with Kevin o'leary or like what the New York times is doing they're all trying to sidestep it and say like oh we couldn't see this coming or he's a good guy we did our due diligence we invest again they're they're really trying to sidestep it and say things like they're either doing that or they're saying things like he was a fraud it's a centralized exchange that's the problem you gotta go into defy or you got to hold your own keys with with the theory him like that they're trying to basically sidestep the whole entire rest of the picture and dude I came on this podcast back in may talking about defy like Luna was defied

so it started with defy really

it was the centralized people that were propping up the five money printing games and then it yeah they made markets on centralized exchanges they they listed the defy coins on centralized exchanges and then that caused a whole bunch of crazy nonsense the growing bigger but this started from defy league defies the problem here though the Ethereum defied I'd I like I like the idea like I said before of decentralized lending decentralized exchange obviously money is the biggest use case that you can ever have for decentralized finance like the money is the biggest use case of decentralized finance having a money that's sound


and fixed and trustworthy in terms of its monetary policy something predictable for a hundred years in the future that's a ten X. improvement over gold and that's not going to just slowly be debased like the dollar bit coin is perfect money and it's the building block of defy you got to start with the sound money and that's a bit coin is and we're building out decentralized finance on big points so it's just not done with all these token Ponzi scams attached to it it's going to be just done like technology like BitTorrent or

do you expect do you think that that the government is going to come out and say Hey these are all unregistered securities and we're gonna see thousands of coins just go to zero is that is that look it's likely

it's likely at this point I mean it it's pretty clear what the SEC's been signaling for the last little while and then recently with the with the library case they you know that's a weird one if you're not really paying too much attention because you're like why would they go after library that's like a two thousand sixteen ICO that raised like five hundred thousand dollars it's like a peanut compared to EO sin and all this other stuff with FTT token the billions and salon on Ethereum and all these other things that raised you know either raised billions or became the pre mine bag of it was worth billions so why would they go after library well it's actually in it in a game theory sort of scenario library give them a a precedent because it's a court ruling to be able to have legal grounds that all of these things are securities and library didn't even do a traditional ICO they didn't actually like do this big thing with an ICO they actually just sold pre mined coins to people after the project launched so it's an important case it's important ruling because it went to the courts and you know obviously we've had tons of SEC settlements where they said like you know Hey Kim Kardashian you can't just go out and promote this thing here's a fine for five hundred thousand dollars or million or whatever it is


or Hey like you know can you can't just wants this illegal security you're gonna have to send all the money back to all the investors there's all kinds of things like that that happened but this this one actually sets a precedent that the courts have decided in the SEC's favor so now this spells a lot of problems for all the other crypto currencies that are most likely ever unregistered securities because the **** that blew up in the last eight months in crypto is going to cause an extreme backlash from the regulators to come and look at these markets and even with the facts sanctioning the tornado cash protocol in arresting the Dev you can see like it's clear they don't want to see decentralized finance on Ethereum six seed from multiple angles they don't want to see it be able to be used for criminal money laundering and funding Russia and all blah blah blah like all the traditional rules that they have the financial system whether you agree with that or not like it's not even a comment on that it's just they have the guns they have the regulations in place it's clear they're enforcing the regulations on defy so people are just so they're screaming in the wind saying you have what we want to be able to do it well the SEC has rules and they have the authority so you're either risking going to jail or getting a huge fine by just going against the SEC going against fact going against fat if and look the only community that is decentralized enough to withstand the government regulatory clampdown is bit coin there actually is nothing that the regulators can do to the bitcoin protocol to change the bitcoin protocol we we saw that play with the segwit two X. sort of NO two X. movement the blocksize wars in two thousand seventeen the big corners like that were running their own nodes it got it they get approved out


the the bitcoin network and the consensus of bit coin is not controlled by corporations is not controlled by miners is controlled by users that run nodes so doesn't matter what the government says to the mining companies or to the big coin developers it's the it's the it's the hundred thousand users that run their own nodes and actually enforce the rules a bit coin and just like how and bit torrent it's illegal to download movies but people still do it anyways because there's like too many people just to enforce the rule they can't stop it going they can't change bit coin

but while Karen on Capitol Hill has called and asked to speak to the manager of bit coin and when I I talked to the manager who's in charge here nobody that is true so as we as we wrap this thing up here you know give a warning to people maybe around your thoughts around CBBC's because as I'm looking at this thing as we talk John I've talked about this it seems that F. T. acts was a Ponzi set up with the intention to eventually try to crash crypto they're laundering money that they're given the Ukraine is going back to the politicians not only on the Democrat side Mitch McConnell got two and a half million dollars they were showing it and then right after that boom Hey we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna test a twelve week C. B. DC pilot program he has nothing to do with the empty acts or any of that so I mean this is like the worst sort of dystopian kind of thing we could possibly have is this

yeah I'm not I'm not super worried about CBD sees because I just don't think that we have a culture here where people would want to use them and even if they did want to use them let's say it's like a real sort of brainwashing scenario like what happened with the coveted situation where people just politically aligned to to an opinion because of their faith they're force fed opinions from top down from celebrities and and government officials in it

and you just want granny to die that's yeah yeah Brad mills used for granted

so so if they can figure out a way to like get you to adopt the CDC based on that sort of like manipulation like maybe they introduce a U. B. I. four hundred dollars a month the only way you can get it is if you use the C. B. T. C. wallet or something like that what if what if

what if they just say what the government says we are extinct in the dollar and dollar for dollar that's why I'm saying like

they won't be able to just do something like that and United States is not China like you guys have a much more all right yeah but but you guys have a much more like anti authoritarian freedom culture than China or even Canada where I live so I don't think that they can actually force a changeover to CBC's I think they'll have to entice people to do it through creative things like a U. B. I. you know if you don't use it you don't get the U. B. I. here five hundred dollars a month for everybody who uses our wallet and if they do that I mean that's actually just kind of good for bitcoin I believe because it will it will you know doesn't matter if it's a dollar or C. B. T. C.


gives people more thinking digitally and it will show the need for bit coin adults further separate bit coin for everything else because bitcoin will be then even more will be the only decentralized censorship resistant money that we have in the world so I think it's good for big coin and the coin holders should definitely be wary of CVD sees but I actually think that the crypto thing is a more insidious threat to bit coin success because it's propped up by influencers that

are not

trying to like surveil you necessarily they're trying to get rich and they're you know they were effectively using celebrity influence to brainwash tens of millions of people into buying garbage and not paying attention a bit coin and you know CZ was out there

are a

Sam was SPF was out there lobbying against bit coin saying things like lightning network is too slow you know you can't use that for money for the world so long as the solution and his lobbying that he was doing was basically trying to put bitcoin and Ethereum and Solana in the same category legally so clearly there's objectives here from the Ethereum crowd like coin centers funded by consensus and they benefited greatly at least ten million or maybe it may maybe four million dollars or something off the get coin scam that got ran in twenty twenty one consensus air dropped like tons of get coin cook tokens to continue to act coin center and then point center goes in lobbies and tries to convince the government that Ethereum is not a security so you have like

all these

point foundations and lobby groups fighting against big coin trying to lump bit coin in with all the ponds and nonsense that happen in crypto and honestly it's like that's what I think is more at play here I don't necessarily think it's so much like political conspiracies it's just incentives like


is literally funding green peas defied bit coin and say proof of work as evil and is gonna boil the tions Ethereum consensus are out there trying to flood bit coin single now we're proof of stake we're green point Sam was doing the same thing so literally this is a battle for money and while there is some political component to it we got to realize that like if we don't have big coin separated from crypto we will get into a world of CBD season surveillance because they can coops along or they can call up the theorem everything else is centralized and if we really do want to have a a sovereign form of money that we can use that censorship free you gotta choose bit coin and you got a certain learning more about bit coin and think a little longer term instead of like how do I get the next hundred percent APY on my on my my my stable coins are like what's the next and if the thing was going on ten X.

we will forever live in a Gordon Gekko greed is good world unfortunately it seems like stories are coming up every day so I got one last question before we let you go brand thank you for for your time and your opinions today now genesis global is halting withdrawals the question is this do you feel like we've seen the majority of the cascading effect of this or do you feel like we're still at the tip of the iceberg and the the more you know the markets are still really gonna tumble including big coin because you know the big coin is tied to crypto whether they like it or not

so I do think like in the analogy I set up at the beginning that we're at like the end of two thousand eighteen and if you look at the chart market or the coin markets and the charts for two thousand nineteen I think that's where we're going in two thousand twenty three it's not gonna be good it's gonna be a long brutal painful capitulation and there's so many over valued coins like look at go through coin geckos top one hundred and just like try to rationalize the the valuation of these coins for their market caps and just look at the chart at like let's say the feds didn't print ten trillion dollars and reignite everything right look at the trend of where most altcoins were going they were going to zero but because twenty twenty twenty twenty one


the end of twenty twenty and you know beginning of twenty twenty one bubble happen like just click on the click on like not even Selanne because that was an ICO let's just let's just look at one of the Ron for instance like stronger point I'm not trying to pick on any specific Cardano is another perfect one

L. six let's look at tron here here we go ahead you soon forget forget the ICO but in its peak and twenty twenty one it got up to what sixteen cents and now it's sitting there not what nine eleven billion dollars

nine and a half billion market cap but look at the price say January twenty twenty well the price of tron in January twenty twenty

that would have been about a penny and a half you know like going to bill your

yes so so a penny and a half for tron is still over valued in my opinion because we were we were kind of reconciling we were going through a two year bear market where people realizing that this stuff doesn't have a lot of value honestly it's Nick not really that valuable they're more like if you want to be if you want to be a generous you can say that that if big coins a commodity and so are some of these altcoins you could say that like big coin is gold and tron is like bronze or something like that like maybe because a lot of people use tron for stable coins overseas maybe it has some utility value like

aluminum has

massive utility value in the world and I'll tell the story and then we'll we'll we can end it but like this is the framework of thinking that I like to have even if this Ethereum is successful because back in like I think was the eighteen hundreds when they this first discovered like aluminum it was a lighter stronger metal metals and gold it was like shinier so they found aluminum people had this crazy FOMO bubble over aluminum they started buying it up and it went up like in the value of aluminum went crazy it got so bad it got so bad this bubble that Napoleon had a set of gold silverware and aluminum silverware and when the the esteemed guests would come over for dinner they would be served on the aluminum silverware and then the big the children would get the gold silver ready with and people were just like buying stakes in aluminum minds and all this stuff then what happened was the industrial revolution they realize that the like aluminum could be manufactured in mind and like you know purified and stuff at a much cheaper cost and risk tons of it they started being able to dig lower and they found more of it so the price of aluminum cratered against gold because eventually people got back into the same reality that like gold has certain properties as a commodity whatever property of metal that you can't replicate with other things and even if the Lumentum which ended up in the war in World War two became the most used metal in World War two like it was used for tanks and weapons and buildings and everything aluminum became extremely important as a useful thing it had utility value but that didn't mean that the price of a looming skyrocketed it was like the most used thing in terms of like a metal in history and during World War two but you don't invest in aluminum so I like to think about bit coin as digital gold and even if Ethereum gets to like the the promises of all defy you know defy becomes the number one way to settle in the world and all the derivatives markets move from Wall Street and they go on and there's quadrillion of dollars of a volume happening on Ethereum defy that doesn't mean that the east token is a better version of bit coin that means it's digital Lumina

so they can have

massive use and still be like going down in price

you can learn more about aluminum on Twitter at aluminum can but you can learn more about Brad mills Brad mills can on Twitter house there is a camp has a camera I want my bronze mug here so how you know I'm I'm rich I'm at this one clip that was that's all time highs and everything like was that like a hundred and thirty different projects were worth a billion dollars or more it was sorry I don't remember how many now it's forty four of them are and I remember I got was gauging that you know I'm in the other markets like all right is a come back look at sea I guess because it got down to I think what it did in the in the barest of the bears were there was only like maybe six that were a billion dollar company two thousand eighteen or something nineteen the mall you think like who pop who prop those markets up to pump those coins up that high it's it was it was trump trump everything trusted extra well just sent a missile into Poland that was him and so he did everything did trump ask entry exit crash course trumpet apple jacks yeah blame for everything so

this is going to think though that like the people that pumped all these coins to the billion market cap third losing all their money right now


and they're gonna make the decision very soon if not now to polo and to pull the liquidity and stop pumping all the real money into all this fake money Michael Saylor calls an air tokens been doing that lately and I it's kind of a fun analogy because literally they're just built on air and all these crypto traders investors are often the risk cliff you know it's not a risk curve it's a risk cliff because you get off of lake Wylie Kyla coyote you're you're running off off the wrist cliff and you're sitting on air grabbing all these tokens and thinking their investments you look down and there's nothing there

and just somehow get a member dies he plummets he barely is wounded and comes back and does it again and again and again right right well done it again on the bad crypto podcast the bread go ahead in in pimp yourself for a moment and tell people what your what you're into where they can find you share websites whatever honestly do

you know like I think the more number one thing for your listeners I would really like if anybody


got saved from Celsius or whatever from the last episode or or or whatever like I would just really appreciate people take a serious look at like learning more about bit coin and the best resource for that is actually Preston patients podcast

he runs the

apology he runs the investor network it's it's it's started off as a macro podcast talking about the the stock markets in value investing things like that and then he started getting into bit coin he created the mayor multiple and he's been my favorite bit coin commentator since so don't you know don't follow me or pay attention to me just like start learning more about bit coin and follow the Preston pitches podcast follow him on Twitter and that would that would make me feel good

there it is right there that's very humble of you Sir the investors podcast dot com for those of you watching and Travis I think that the irony would dictate that we should commemorate this episode with an N. F. T. don't you Hey don't don't be a pest prior to that so what we'll talk about that here and Brad there were there is the the the dollar what about it no leader my aunt to reserve the nodes of bit coin that's nice you might direct

these are big coin and if these there the physics

of art they're not really at ease I love the really cool part excellent man physical art we we appreciate you and I'm sure that we will have you back again thanks again guys that's actually bad every time we talked you should be in here so we don't ever want to talk to you again

so Travis you know you just reminded me that Jimmy song who was a recent guest on the show we had a lot of negative things to say about entities he went on a epic rant do you remember that yeah I was it was it it was a legendary ram and it was funny because right yeah we can debate them and I debated on lots of stuff and he's is he just steamrolled on it using full motion full bullshit after bullshit so it's going to cause trouble shooter they also

we're going to

right around it it was actually it was right around the time we interviewed Brad this year so it was and if cheese or a scam it was April tenth of twenty twenty two so if you want to go back and looks like we do have a video of it as well on Friday okay one hour that could make a great little N. F. T. as well of him ranting on and if these are your house phone he went to town all right all the time I saw him there Jimmy song ran a train Hollis also

you know brand has a lot to say hopefully you guys follow him on Twitter at Brad mills can by the way this report the line is starting to release the people who have been suspended and it's it's a variety is like looking at them and deciding case by case but Jordan Peterson is back the Babylon bee is back and although I'm not a fan of her I don't think that she should be banned Kathy Griffin is back and so

this is crazy but he's he's like go ninety nine point six percent of the work force has left basically fifty of the top because you don't need that many invoices got the best of the best I read this thread about how he's going through him and then basically what people self identify as you were once you kick **** and who are the ones you talk **** and who were the ones who don't do **** and the ones that don't do **** and talk **** where the loudest in the ones that do **** he saw that he kept all of them so I think we're gonna see is

those people are gonna be all on them then he's gonna start hiring good people really we have a really good productive people who know the hell they're doing these other people really slow them down right it's so let them be part of the hiring in the Greek people later on because I don't think you don't need eight thousand people around Twitter you need eight thousand people if you're talking every government and wheeling and dealing with every politician but from what I've seen I heard even retweet if you said ninety nine it was a tentpole tweeted it said ninety nine point six percent of Twitter people are gone he's out of the fifty very best employees and I was going to build up from there can you imagine all of them were just so shitty

I tried to say declines were yet

no more funny actually yes so and somebody said bring back Alex Jones in in the line responded no which look I understand why you know he might now want to bring them back for free speech is free speech and if you don't let people come back regardless of whether or not you like what they say is all really free speech also I even

cancel the house jobs now what's interesting is I've I've paid attention to Alex Jones and it you know I was chosen wrong about a few things well my god how many things of the new York times been wrong about how many times M. S. N. B. C. they're wrong about some the very first time I've ever seen somebody be wrong about something and soon for a billion dollars if every time a mass in B. C. or fox news or CNN or some of these guys were wrong about summer

they got sued for a billion dollars right and they got canceled I think the thing is they go off on him about the things that happen in Connecticut right and the shooting and that is he was wonderful he basically said was yeah there so it's not exactly the story they're telling is not the correct one I don't think he ever said people have died but he said the FBI was going on with them and that and now he owes a trillion dollars or some ridiculous and so crazy wow whatever it is a crazy times we live in thank you for joining us and letting us be a your a sharp us or at least being along side you on this journey because that's what the show has always been from from the very first episode it's Travis Mitchell's exciting crypto adventure which is the land of the venture five and a half years into it what we are the spelunkers of what's a good S. word for

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