The Candace Owens Show: Bryan Callen - Transcripts
All right. All right. So I'm gonna do a soft open and then I'm gonna cut to you, introduce you and we'll get right into it. You can literally say whatever you want. Cool
this thing. Anyways.
Exactly right. All
right, Ready. Okay, ladies and gentlemen, we are rolling into another episode of the Candace. Owens show many of you who follow me know that I was definitely probably the first person who spoke out against the Me Too movement when the Me Too movement started trending on twitter, both the left and the right thought that this was a protected space and a conversation, a platform for women to come out and speak about sexual assaults in the past. Now I immediately spoke out against it. Not because I think it's a good thing when women are sexually assaulted. Not because I think it's a good thing if women are raised because I also think it is a bad thing if men are accused of crimes and forced to deal with the penalties of those crimes without due process. What I saw really trending on twitter was a bunch of women saying things happened and these women being applauded and men being castigated uh without any further exploration into the allegations against them. Now, of course, even though left and right agreed with this when it was trending, we saw the right break away from this conservatives realizing that it was in fact problematic when we got to the trial of Brett Kavanaugh, A 30 plus year old allegation. zero proof. And yet this man was virtually hung in front of the world for me as a black American. It was reminiscent of the things that I learned about the civil rights era when white women could make allegations and simply be believed on the basis of their word. My ancestors got hung here to discuss this and more with me.
I have comedian bryan callen, Welcome to the Canister on chef.
Thank you. I'm a fan.
Thanks for joining.
I'm happy to be here.
I'm always happy to have comedians on here because one of the spaces that's definitely under attack is just being able to tell a joke, right? And this used to be, we needed comedians in the world because comedians actually bring us all closer together. We make, they make fun of everyone and then you kind of realize, alright, alright, it's it's actually funny we all kind of suck a little bit. You know, we all have our good things and bad things And now we're suddenly an era where comedians they're digging up tweets from 20 years ago. Uh, he said this word and now he needs to be canceled.
Well arts always, I think good art has always been something that disturbs, you know, especially satire satire was always something that rulers were terrified of cartoonists and you know, I mean I think there's a lot of power in being able to point out the contradictions in human behavior and all of us are a walking contradiction to an extent. So um you know Bill Bird went crazy on saturday night live and you and there were plenty of people saying, you know, my whole family walked out when we heard this good, It's all good. That's the american way. You have a right to walk out, you have a right to be disturbed, you have a right to say taboo. But for the most part, what's great about being allowed to just speak your mind, It's called original self expression. And if you feel like you're gonna get in trouble, if you feel like your livelihood is going to be affected by speaking your mind by who you're making fun of. I think we're all in trouble because stand up is still alive and I really believe stand up as the last bastion of free speech.
I totally agree with
you. Yeah, so it's incredibly important. We need more of that because it just gets people to think by the way. It also it also gets you to kind of lower your guard when I, when a comedian makes fun of my positions, my political positions, my philosophical positions just who I am as a person. I listen, I listen if it's if it's really good, sometimes it's just too undeniable. You kinda go, man, I never thought about that when it comes to myself
and it's important to be able to laugh at yourself and I think that that is the magic when you look at all. I mean I can't imagine George Carlin being able to survive in the society that we have today. God, which just preaches so much political correctness when people like him or just the exact antithesis of political correctness.
But that's because every time, even when you use the word political correctness, my feeling is that people that being offended isn't an argument. It just isn't. And as soon as I see people who are professionally outraged, generally outraged and you know, get get to twitter and start to freak out. My suspicion is that they just don't have an effective argument to mount against. What they intuitively feel is offensive because most of the time we're defending not really we're defending not so much ourselves, even not even a philosophy were defending the people we love who we grew up with, who indoctrinated us into a certain philosophy. These are just ideas, man. Whenever I hear someone talking about power and everything is power and you hear these academics talking about that the world is just about, it's just power structures and I'm I'm tyrannical because obviously I'm a straight white male and I'm at the top of the pyramid and I've got all this underprivileged, I understand. But as soon as I hear those kind, when you're when you're putting the world into these neat little boxes. Well, I know where you are. I know who you read. I know, I can just see the Austrian school of Economics, I can see man cause I can see all the people that you've read and those are just ideas that were put in your brain and you've held onto why not so much? Because they make sense, but because they make you feel safe, they make you feel significant and they make you feel virtuous,
right? And people don't like having their safe spaces challenge because it can take away from yourself virtue.
That's right. Which is why you should go to stand up comedy and we can take a hammer and break that little egg that you've been living in and you might evolve a little bit as a person, whether you're on the right or on the left, don't, don't be so attached to your ideas,
right? And it's funny that you say that because of course Dave chappelle came after me in a stand up. He did, he did, he did
well, congratulations by the way though,
because you're, and, and to be honest to be honest with you when I saw it, I didn't actually think the content of what he said was funny. He just was like, he sort of wanted to assault me and my lady parts. Um, but as I was trending on twitter about this and you know, everyone's coming after me waiting for me to be upset. And the first thing I said was, you know, this is Dave chappelle, he's saying my name on stage, he's one of the greatest comedians that's ever lived. Hey, it's a compliment right to me and be, I've spent my entire career defending the right for people to say what they want. I of course I'm not going to attack him for saying what he wants. I really do believe we need more of this. I'm happy to be offended if we're already to be offended and it just completely shut up the entire, they just didn't know what to do with it because it was sort of this moment where they needed me to be offended and said, I chose to say like that we need more of that. Good
for you. That's exactly right. Maybe he got you to think a little bit. It's not as though Candace Owens has arrived at the truth. You're working your way through it to your asking questions. Do you still read, are you still open to conversation? Are you still having your mind changed? My guess is probably yes. And the thing is
what we were disagreeing on was the George Floyd thing. And by the way, I got done with the skin and I still stand by everything I said about George Floyd. In fact more because then post his skit is when the full tape was released and I felt, um even more audacious and my beliefs and I knew that I was taking an angle. I tend to upset a lot of people because I don't go with the crowd on perspectives of certain things. Um, but he's a comedian. You know what I mean? What what what are you expecting from him? Like, what am I supposed to say? Turn off the tv this is a boring that he would say this. And as a feminist, uh, you know, people need to stand up and defend me.
Look, you're you're you're you might be offending a lot of people. You're also emboldening a lot of people. You also make a lot. You also give a lot of people faith because you have guts. You have everybody I know in my family, they they when they found out I was doing the show there, it's so excited. And I was too, because I think you have a great deal of courage. You know, you you speak your mind. I love watching you on these clips when you're in Congress and things like that, because you're so clear, you're so articulate and you have a point of view, a strong one and you speak your mind. That's that may be disturbing. Thank God, thank God we have dissenting opinion, because that's very important. That's kind of the point of having republicans and democrats, that's that's almost what the framers wanted, which was government to move slowly. So we had these debates.
Do you think there weren't arguments when we were when they were drafting the constitution? Do you think there weren't argument when drafting the bill of Rights? You don't think that people had a point of view and they were fighting it out and they came to a compromise. It's called idea sex. It's what it's what I talk about it and that's what I talk about my special. That's that's the idea. I have an idea. You have an idea. They may not be. There's some truth in your idea. Some of some useful um parts of that idea. And and the same with yours, but we don't have that.
We haven't figured out the whole thing. Maybe we put our ideas together and somebody gets pregnant. Do you think? I mean
I do you think comedians are losing their spine a little bit,
they're afraid? I'll tell you why. Uh huh. Unfortunately, I think everybody's really afraid. I've seen this with my own eyes. I've had very powerful people call me and tell me this because the truth is it's very easy to destroy someone's life and take everything away from them. Everything they've worked for happened to me and it's happened to a lot of people I know and it doesn't take any proof. It takes an allegation. It takes a tweet and you know, people think when you get fired for a tweet, you sent out 10 years ago, 15 years ago and you are joking around. There is no redemption online. And it's it's it's when you have a mortgage and you have Children to pay for, you're going to choose that course. You're gonna choose to protect your ability to keep that roof over your head, your car payments and your Children in school over an ideology.
So what happens is we are living in this time where you're not allowed to speak your mind, you're not allowed to get closer to the truth. You better be on one side or you better be very quiet and now you can't even be quiet now with this notion of critical race theory and stuff. Even silence is violence, right? It's just what's going on. There are some very bad ideas out there and they're not the ideas that gave us the free society that we have. The only way we move forward is through debate through the exercise of free ideas. And let's see whose idea is best. And and that's that's what's under attack.
Yeah. And you know what's really interesting is I was sort of thinking about, when did this all start? Because obviously this whole push towards political practice didn't began when I became conscious to it. It began long before it. And I was giving a speech of the night. And I was talking about even english words that had real meaning, right? We've allowed people to take those words twist the meeting and then say that we're not allowed to use those words anymore. And I'll give you a perfect example. Um, I'm reading a really old book right now called the immoral list. It's from pre World War One. Um, and the word faggot is in the book as it is meant to be a bundle of sticks, right? And at some point in society, you know, the word faggot, a bundle of sticks got taken and got a sign of something, it never meant.
And now we're no longer allowed to say that word and it gets censored everywhere, which is interesting. Right? But what about if it's using its true context? And I'm reading this book and making that similarly for that's always bothered me, because I read old books retarded as a real word, when something is delayed, right? When something is, you know, if you said something and I say that was retarded, it was you fired off a response late. But now at some point it began to mean that you were always referring to somebody that was mentally incapacitated. But this word was a real english word that had a meeting.
Yeah, I think those sometimes don't get
Maybe I well, I think there's a larger thing. I think sometimes those words Are are hurtful to us to an inflexible minority because they've really paid a price for that, right? So, I'm old enough to remember when being gay was physically dangerous. It just was man and you and and people heard that word as they were as they were being booted into the ground. And so when you have a group of people who gay people remember it was it was really, I think it was 1993, when when the the notion of homosexuality was no longer considered a mental disorder. Right? So this is very recent. So if
you're if you're using the word not as it's meant,
but I'm just saying I just think that with with the AIDS epidemic and with with the amount of violence that gay people did experience. I I just, I'm old enough to remember this. It was dangerous. And and it was also when you said you were gay, if you were in a job in corporate America, you got fired or you got me. Just I remember it being a real
what I'm saying is that what about the word in its actual context differently. Take down a tree, different stories. You get what I'm saying. So that I just have been sort of thinking about this recently, the actual disappearance of words in their true context. I'm not talking about when you see a gay man and you use that word, right, right. I am talking about these words now have to be stripped because these words have been taken and violence has been assigned to them. These words are not being shipped out of out of just english vocabulary, which is something that I think is fascinating. Uh,
language is always changing. But words do have meaning right and now and why I find this to be dangerous and I agree with you when it's used in a harmful when you're talking about homosexual men, It's wrong. Um, but why I find this to be dangerous is now because we're seeing on the left a game where they're taking words that aren't even being used when when you're assaulting a homosexual words that you're just actually saying and they're signing meaning to it that has never existed. You didn't mean it in that way. And they're trying to use it under the same bubble of thought that you just used when you defend the disappearance of a bundle of sticks, right?
It's about it's about power and control. It's
about getting rid of your enemies, right, That people you disagree with these very effective ways to get rid of your people. You disagree with the people you think are keeping, uh, I suppose a systematically racist or whatever it might be society in in in place. You can do it with finding out what they said. And mounting, you know, enough of an opposition online where the Operation operations don't want to deal with it.
You can't say, for example, all Lives Matter.
This is exactly
right. So now saying all Lives matter. So we both agree That what used to mean a bundle of six got used during the 80s during a horrific time and gay people live through a horrible thing. And this word went away right now, they're trying to liken that to saying all lives matter. And they're firing people getting rid of people for using the expression all lives matter. These are three English words. Nobody who's saying all lives matter means I hope black people die and suffer at the hands of police officers. But they're now taking that. And this is what this is the slippery slope of allowing words that have actual meaning to be taken. Uh, and and by the political correctness gods and interpret into something that you don't actually mean.
I read a book recently by Nassim Nicholas Taleb called Skin in the Game. It's a great book. I recommend it highly. And he is a guy who who kind of had a very interesting theory about why these narratives are being taken over and enforced on the rest of us. And one of it is that there are we have experienced a takeover by people who have no skin in the game, that people who can make decisions for the rest of us and not pay a price for when they are wrong. Think about journalists who opine and predict they can say whatever they want. They can they can think about academics who come up with these these marginalized these theories that have not been tested. I mean, whether it's white privilege or whatever it might be. Um, critical race theory that goes back to these are these are narratives that used to be on the fringes of academia, But you have a you have especially in the social sciences, you've got these academics that are have been able to purify their echo chamber. They just have there isn't enough opposition. There isn't any idea sex going on. I've interviewed my I used to have a podcast I interviewed probably 500 academics, smart people, the orthodoxy and the terror.
They had a stepping outside of of of of what what was expected of their speech was palpable. It was incredible. And the vast majority of them, if not if they weren't marks as they were at least Socialists and the great God, the great word for them was was um equality, equality. But here's the problem, here's the problem. How do you learn anything? You can learn things by listening, by observing and by reading. But there are some things you can only learn by doing. Think about fighting. You can be cage side and call fights for 100 years. You can predict fights, you can know the fight game that never means. You can take what you know here and put it in your body and get in and slip punches and hit you. You can I could I could teach you all you want about stand up comedy.
The only way to be good at stand up comedy is by being really bad for a long time. You have to learn through the pain of adjustment. The way you catch a ball, you can't read how to catch a ball, the way you do surgery. Can you imagine. Can you imagine you are about to go under the knife. And the surgeon goes, I've read about this. I've watched a bunch of tape. You're my first patient. Oxygen. Yeah. You know, you freak out. So there are people though who are in power, whether they're foreign policy experts talking about regime change, whether academics pushing these narratives on our schools, whether they are politicians who don't pay a price.
Economic economists who haven't we've never made a business work who live in a world of theory. They've never had to learn something at the pain of adjustment. They've actually never had to do something. They've been living in a world of theory. They have a lot of power. They're very articulate. And somehow they've gotten a position where they can push narratives on the rest of us. This is all this is all from the book. But it made so much sense. And when they're wrong, We spent $6 trillion six trillion since 2011. Who's signing those checks? What am I getting for my money?
Six trillion one trillion six is 1000 billion. The average person is alive for about 2.5 billion seconds. If you're lucky, I'm just giving you an idea of how much 6000 billionaires. That's how much money we've spent and counting. I want to know who is who is accountable and what am I getting for that money. Unfortunately, we're living in a time where I don't think our government represents us. Most of us feel powerless, most of us feel is that we don't have an ability to make a difference unless you're someone like Canada someone's, by the way. I'm not kidding because all of a sudden one of the great things about social media there's a lot of trappings but one of the great things about social media is at least there are people like you who get up there and start telling the truth. I guess what a lot of people agree with you and a lot of people listen to you. How interesting even though twitter I'm sure goes crazy on you. Most people like she's got a point.
Well yeah and that's why I speak out because I'm realizing more and more what we're seeing exactly what you're talking about particularly. I think the academia um with this push for political correctness and the perversion of actual american phrases in american words, they can make anything. I mean they are now saying the pledge of allegiance. Um the U. S. A. Chant is racist right? You know what I'm saying? Like so these things were ok now they're not okay, how many words are we gonna be left with that are okay for us to say when they can look into some deeper meaning and see some and see some oppression
but there there this is a major over region here's why human beings, a lot of us. Uh there are certain things tradition and the sanctity there in are important, their important parts of our moral palette, the important parts of our value system and when you just start tearing down statues or you just start getting rid of the pleasure lesions just willy nilly because you guys have decided it creates a visceral reaction.
God, merry christmas, I mean it's actually what we're seeing right now is an attack on the english language and I try to understand and I know that I'm awake to it now, but like what exactly did it start? Or maybe it started with something that was genuine like people realizing that words were being perverted and used to harm people and we would never want that. Like of course when if you're saying something is delayed or retarded, I would never mean to talk about somebody who has mental disabilities. Right? So there's us trying to do the right thing because we are good people and we want to say if this actually offends people, I don't want to say it. But then some powerful people realized, hey, there's power in that if we can say it, offends people, then we can, you know, gain a lot of power and say that all of these words are suddenly not okay and that's where we're at right now in society, this, this push and pull of of us want to do the right thing, but also now realizing that doesn't matter what we say because no matter what we say, we're in trouble and you're in hot water and this is the space that I see comedians
because because because again, and to your point, most of us are living our lives. I got I got bills. So I work in a restaurant. I'm not trying to run a restaurant. I'm not thinking about race. I'm really not. I need to get good food to my customers and compete with the restaurant over there, whatever that takes. I got to do. The last thing I'm thinking about is how racist we are. I I don't have most people just don't have the time. The people that are coming up with these narratives have the time to sit around and think about it. They're not actually doing the work.
They're not they don't have, I'm sorry, but they don't have real jobs. 11 of the things I thought was great about this book, Skin in the game as he says, I wonder how many Hollywood celebrities and how many academics? How many economists, many politicians preaching economic and social equality actually have friends that work with their hands. How many people at your table at your dinner table? You invited? Who are landscapers and plumbers and Carpenters? Just a question. Just a question and you know, even Sam Harris admitted and I love that. He said, I don't know anybody. I don't think anybody my phone. I know who actually even smoke cigarettes, that's a class of
know, it's very easy to surround yourself with the people, the same people that have read the same books, listen to the same ted talks and speak the same language. I think it's very important things
about one of the
beautiful things. Yes, of
course, but intelligence, a component of intelligence is experienced.
It's right, it's doing, there's certain things, you know, as a car mechanic, as a farmer that I will never know. You know, it's it's and one of the beautiful things about being a stand up comic and traveling, touring is I'm around real people are performing for working people who work, you have to pay a babysitter, who deal with who are dealing with those, those essentials, where there the full time job for them is keeping a roof over their head car payments and once in a while they get to go out and see a stand up comedian, That's a big deal. That's when your feet are on the ground, man, you're you're a grounded person.
And I think that that is because of my upbringing I'm so grateful for and I always say that when I was young, I hated being poor, Oh my goodness, if I told you the amount of times, God, why me, God, you know, feeling like God had betrayed me and turns back on me because I just had this horrible circumstance my whole life and now I'm where I'm at and I go thank goodness thank God that I had to live through struggle that my parents didn't have anything that I had to fight. Uh you know my way out of debt to live a life you know? But I slept on those couches and slept in my car into all those things because it does attach me to a reality. And I will say this on both sides of the political aisle that you can see people just completely detached from it completely of course and it's lived experience that we're talking about.
That's what you get your courage. I think I can see that in you because I
always say what a sign of remarkable privilege that like my grandad had to deal with segregation and I've got to do with mean tweets like you know what I mean? Like that's a good perspective to have people like how do you do at the spot and like I am privileged. You know
you said something to a bunch of them, they were protesting something, we were talking and I remember I was on Youtube and you said you guys it was these bunch of these sort of college kids and most of them I think we're whiter and you said you guys are more emotional than the people who went through it went through it. You guys are you know U.
C. L. A. I remember saying that I couldn't believe looking if you talk to black americans today, They are so oppressed and I'm talking about you know not every black american but as a rule because this black lives matter narrative and you talk to the especially on college campuses where they have this sort of Marxist indoctrination and they genuinely are speaking like they're living in 18 89 America and their privileged here they are sitting in U. C. L. A. You know um and I just look at you, I just go what what an insult to your ancestors and because my grandfather is still breathing I'm just I'm just thinking I had all the time whenever I think I can get upset I'm trending on twitter or something. I didn't say I'm like what a privilege, you know what I mean? This is the worst part of my life. Looking at my phone and seeing Candace Owens I have to read a fake article about me, my grandfather in a fake article about me and people when people, I think it's it's important that we always have that perspective and I always call a call upon people to whatever you think whatever you think you're having a bad day, Take it two generations ago in your family.
Yeah and I think I think in a lot of ways I'm an optimist and I think that free speech may be under attack but it's also having its day look nobody is nobody is going to stop you from not only not only speaking your mind, but profiting from it. The fact that you're so popular means that people really appreciate at least your pushback. I love that debate between you and T. I and killer mike and all those other people. One of my favorite thing to do is to watch lately um debates between black conservatives and black liberals. I just like I love because this idea because what we do is we do this monolith. So you have the well the black vote or the or the asian vote, what are you talking
about? Are you saying, are
you saying black people agree with each other? Are you saying that there's so much diversity of opinion in that community, Like in every community? And so whenever I hear that I go, you don't spend any time around people like that. You don't have any real friends who are hanging out in that in that in that community. So what are you talking about? Because uh that's that's where the condescension comes in
and then that's accidental condescension. Actually, the other day someone had tweeted to me, I don't understand why Canada doesn't work with blah blah blah black conservative who believes in this, this this and that. And I just said, would you ever say that to a white conservative? Like just because a person is a black conservative, you think that we naturally all need to be working together. You don't understand that even black conservatives, we have various points, you know, various goals were different people. And we we've just gone to just think of everybody in terms of these little boxes. Um, and and it is it's it's suffocating being a black person because they have just this idea of what you're supposed to think, how you're supposed to feel who you're supposed to even work with, even if they agree with your
person. When you say they it's actually a lot of times it's one people, it's very
It's very true. Um, I really want to talk to you about because you unbelievably are probably the closest person I'm going to get to be able to speak to something reminiscent at least of the Kavanaugh situation where you as a comedian had an allegation from 21 years ago and this happened, this is happening in the present right now, 21 years ago. And A young woman, uh says something happened 21 years
ago, not was
Young, I guess 21 years ago. And then now made an allegation against you and wham, uh, you got canceled.
everything goes away overnight. An allegation,
it proved, was there? No,
No. And and the problem is that whenever something like that happens and it's 21 years old, you the only thing you can do really is go, no, I didn't. What else are you gonna do? No, I didn't. And what's interesting is that most people say, you know, you just got to, the only way to fight this. Sometimes they say is to just disappear. No, no, I won't. I won't. I know who I am, the people that know me know who I am. And so sometimes you define yourself along the lines of what you're willing, you define yourself based on what you're willing to fight for and by the way, die for sometimes on that hill, you know, I'm sorry to be dramatic, but that's who are you in in in in moments of chaos And um unfortunately sometimes you just, there's nothing you can do.
So I have a question if somebody and I'm just trying to figure this out of somebody who works with a bunch of other companies. But if somebody made an allegation against me, You know, I'm 31, 20 years ago would be weird. Can't just when she was 11 years old,
she was a child,
was outrageous child.
Uh but let's say they did this allegation against me and I get something and it's 21 years ago and suddenly prayer you just the next day they hear the allegation like tennis, you're done. What is the retribution against companies with? I mean it isn't due process like a part of the american system, like is there any retribution when you get when you get dropped by sponsors dropped by your show based on allegations. I've seen this happen, forgetting, forget the me two sexual assaults up. I've seen this happen. Somebody says she was mean to me and she's a racist and I've seen people with all their sponsorships sponsorships
or that's a toxic work and he they created a toxic working. Yes. With No. Even though it's the set of Ellen you work in a real toxic environment, please, like a crab boat or in a coal mine or in a chemical factory or a slaughterhouse, would you? I mean, get a little perspective. I'm sure it wasn't that great. I'm sure there is. But my God, have we lost perspective? Lost the plot. But yeah, Yes. The truth is what happens with all your sponsors and what happens with anybody who pays your bills is it's just too risky and they just do this. They go, we know we we we we believe we're with you.
But unfortunately we just, you know, there are other we can do, we can just pivot over here. We just have to for now what happens? That's so sad. There's nothing you can say you understand it because because social media is loud and even again, it's an inflexible minorities.
Well, I have to say a credit to trigger you because they have gone through about 20 candace scandals that things that never happened and they've always held me down. They feel like this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
Like I mean you're important
it takes, but because the pressure, you has a spine. You know what I mean? They have a spine and they're not going to sit here and let the Twitterverse dictate who they work with something crazy. Candace is a white supremacist is trending. How weird if like Dennis Prager was like, hey Candace, uh we know you're not really a white person, you gotta let you go. It's just not good right now. You know,
some people are kind of untouchable and I feel that way about you.
Yeah, because I'm black,
although you still get your share of criticism, although you're still lambasted for being what you're not again because they don't have, they don't have an effective argument
doesn't land the same when they're doing it against a black woman, but you're not a black woman or do you identify as, I still didn't mean to
do, I do identify as a black woman, but I'm not one,
Not one, you're not yourself. Wait
a minute. Yeah. Now I'm confused.
So you have that going
on. You know what, that's not a good impression of a black woman. My fingers up like that's ridiculous.
Yes. My true colors. Exactly.
Um But because you're a white man sort of this allegation. They, so they just sort of say okay bye. I'm sorry. We know we know but we have to go sort of a thing.
Yeah. Yeah. I I knew right away. Something you can do about it. There's nothing you can do this just isn't and and um I think um, there's a, the only thing you can kind of do is keep moving forward, try to try to pivot, try to come up with, you just have to just keep creating and thinking and um, do do what you did to get yourself to the dance. And uh, I think Jordan Peterson said the only way out of chaos is to tell the truth. And I love that. So align yourself with the truth. You know, people know who I am and the people I care about, you know who I am and oh by the way, so too, so do any of the women in my life, in my past. You know, I without going into detail that that that was sort of made clear to me too. I said, I said to my lawyer and my publicist, I said I need to know that you believe me. I'm not interested in a hired gun, I want you to know.
And then I showed them my sort of evidence and and that was, that was very important to me. You know, I don't want I don't want to be somebody who hires someone who is defending me because I'm paying them because I'm on their team. I'm not interested in that I'm just not. So, but again, sometimes your uh, chaos comes in a form you have no defense for
right and I agree with that to me. I think when I first started speaking out against the Me Too movement and like I said, was lambasted by both sides. It was just about the truth. Um, and saying that we, there has to be due process, you cannot throw up something on twitter as an allegation and somebody should just be able to have their entire lives of race. And I think I've held firm on that because I have defended men on the right and then on the left, you know, um and sometimes it's just asking a question or saying, I don't, you know, I don't believe this or I'd like to see more information. I could not stand matt lauer at all. It's not, it was a horrible human being. There's no doubt to me that he was, you know, all powerful and omnipotent when he was on air. Um, but I did, I struggled to believe that he raped a woman, an intern or produce or whatever it was that worked for him. And then after
raping her at the allegation.
Yeah, it was rape. She came out and said rape and then after the rape she proceeded to have a consensual affair with him for two months that he took back to his apartment and all these different places and I said, okay, well, um listen, I'm not pretending to understand the psychology of rape victims, but I find this to be a bit problematic to believe that somebody who's worked um, you know, in the business, I understand women who want to climb a lot. I'd be like powerful men. This is there's a dynamic between that. Um and I just wasn't, I didn't want to leave it at face value and I and I spoke out, you know, and said this is a little bit ridiculous. He had, I mean, I have to imagine it would have been difficult for him to find a woman who wanted to sleep with him. And then the whole idea of, you know, I was raped but then decided to love my rapist and have an affair. There should have been more question marks in the condemnation is all I'm saying a little bit of due process, but didn't matter.
Yeah, I think that, I think there are a couple thoughts that I have on that one is that when something when an allegation is weaponized, um I don't think it serves the movement itself. I think what it does, it creates a reign of terror and you know, everyone including people who are whoever they might be, who are staunch me to advocates and stuff have brothers and have sons and have husbands. And I think that the that's the that's the larger, I actually think overall, and I thought about it a lot. I think the and I've seen it have a positive effect in Hollywood. The Me Too movement is is positive in many ways because and I'm saying this is an actor who is in the business for a long time. Mhm Women had to deal with powerful men in the business. And a lot of them behaved well. And a lot of them didn't and a lot of them didn't even have to think about their impact about the fact that they were uh putting pressure on. I know a woman who I who interviewed, she's a good friend of mine interviewed at a large, you know, corporation before Me Too. She's very attractive. And the guy uh interview went really well and the guy asked her out and she knew if she said no, she's not getting the job. So I like the idea of women having a whisper network.
I like the idea of women for the first time having recourse because it does put men who are problematic on notice. And there are a lot of men in power who are problematic. It's just the fact you have a lot of a holes who do what they want and if there's no consequence, you know, that power that that that sort of feeling of impunity will grow. And you have people who don't care about your feelings and who will do what they want and will take what they want. We know that. And I think so in that sense, I like, I'm a I'm a fan of fair play. That's why you want to call me a feminist, whatever. I just like the idea that if you're good for the job, I don't care what you look like and I don't care what your sexuality is. If you're good for the job and you're gonna, you're good for my bottom line, I'm hiring you, Which is why I love commerce and I'm a free market capitalist. I just love it, you know, But, but for the most part, that's, that's where it's good. Where it's like any revolution, it will eat its young if you're not careful. And if you don't have a way to navigate its abuse when the pendulum swings all the way to the side, you will have bodies on the side of the road.
And the problem with that is you might say, well that you've got some people get burned by the sun of revolution. It's all good and it's what you gotta crack a couple of eggs to make an omelet. Okay, here's the problem with that. You're next. And if you're not next someone you love is
there needs to be nuanced. You'll have, it seems to me it's, it's the pendulums either. All the way here are the pendulums all the way there. And what I'm saying is, hey, a little bit of due process, a little bit of thinking a little bit of honesty and I think that my trouble with the Me Too movement is that just, it lacked honesty and I feel the same way about, by the way, when I talk about black America, I, I land on the exact same side where I say we're no longer being honest when we can talk about the fact that it isn't that difficult to listen to police instructions. Right, Right. Let's just start there. You say that people's heads explode. Some people,
yeah, I bet you most people agree with you, including black white, maybe
quietly. But I'm saying this was sort of the whole big, who the heck is this girl saying that we need to be responsible and follow police instructions. Like these things should be like common sense, right? It doesn't need to be totally like police should be able to do whatever they want. It doesn't also need to be black people should be able to go over there on the floor by the police, but this is sort of what we're doing. And I'm sort of like, hey, so what if you want a jerk and you listen to instructions when you got pulled over, we might be able to get something done. And I find the exact same thing with the feminist movement, right? So it's like we don't want omnipotent men telling, you know, making women feel inferior, but at the same time we don't want women saying I had, you know, a three month affair, nothing is my fault. All cut me a $6 million dollar check. Um, so there's, there's something
here, you're sounding, you're sounding very reasonable and balanced, which is why they hate me. That's not very american americans have a lot of trouble being two things at once. They just do americans are very interesting that way. You can't be pro black lives matter or just like the idea that you don't want black people to be brutalized. And there is a history of that. There's a different experience for black americans historically with the police for sure than guys like me, fact, I've never thought about it. One cops pull me over. I'm like, what's up bro? Hey, you look like me. You know that you know, I feel protected. Not so with my black friend, I've just had too many conversations
for me though as a black woman and black men. Yes. Different.
What I'm saying is that that, that there is there is you are allowed to be pro police and pro law and order and pro police behaving you know, with accountability and properly I'm allowed to do both. But you know, it's funny with America. It's
got to be a dichotomy at all times and I do this. Why is it a dichotomy?
We do this with nutrition. Look what happens, nutrition's our religion, right? So all of a sudden they come up with a study that omega three fatty acids are good for your heart and good for everything else. Well now we've got to put it in bread and everything else. An entire industry is spawned and people are, you know, you're either a vegan or your carnival. We
just like, you know, skinny, skinny skinny models. They're anorexic. And now we've got clinical obesity on full display. It's like maybe something in the middle. I don't know. Maybe I don't want to see it clinically obese person. And I also don't want to see it. Anorexia going with her ribs pop. Maybe actually both are unhealthy like, so I'm here in the middle and it's, it's just not fun because people hate people hate when someone just says, hey, maybe a little of both of this is at fault and there's something in the middle that we could carve out. That would make a little more sense.
We need you
american society. We need you. I say everything. I'm thinking I'm a prisoner. You right. I mean, they just let me do this.
Well, you're, you're undeniable. Uran cancel. Your husband has that fantastic. There's always, there's always that sort of wonderful. He always sounds correct. Of course. It sounds like an aristocratic always said it's something fantastic about having that kind of
party lovely. You know,
blonde tall and his hands. I want to be. I want to be an aristocrat that would have an accent.
Always wonder like what can temper me And that's it's his little english accent. And I'm like, all right, He's got a
good job with that accent. He could walk in and go, I'm sorry, I don't have a gun, but give me all your money. Please
please put the money in the bag. Yeah.
Put the older
could hear him talk all
day. I know, I know, I gotta do another episode with him. Have you done episode with him? I have, I've done one.
I'm gonna go to sleep every, every, every, every woman was like, oh, I get why she's married to this guy. I
don't know if he said anything profound. I think he just was like, hey,
yeah, I didn't know he was, your husband walked in and he was very quiet and standing there and I was like, let's put the blonde hair in the accent. I feel bad about myself. I mean
that's, that's exactly why
I married him. I want to hear that. I can, I can sit in my eyes getting old even with makeup,
you can pay for that fortunately brian, this has been such a fun episode. Honestly you are so great, so much to offer. I hope people really listen to this and just get a lot out of it. We wrap every episode by allowing you to leave a face message with the world. Um, the world might answer back. So don't check your voice messages. Um, so you've got two minutes on the clock going to look into the camera, you're going to say whatever is on your heart and in your mind that you want to fall upon the ears of all seven billion people who watch the Candace Owens show, Are you ready on your mark? Get set world. I give you Ryan Callen,
I would say at 53 years old. The thing I've learned is don't be afraid of ideas and don't be too attached to your ideas. And I'll quote uh the Israeli author Amos Oz, who said the way to beat a bad idea is with a better idea. Don't be afraid to be bested by a better idea but be open to it. And that's why conversation and dialogue is so crucial. And when you are afraid to hear someone else's voice, you know, even Barack Obama said, I don't know why I said even but Barack Obama said that when I disagree with someone, I listened to them twice as hard and I thought that was a really good thing to do. And I think that's very important because sometimes you don't have all the answers don't be so attached your ideas. And the last thing that I'll say, I love that quote by almost has and I love a quote by Michelangelo which was criticized by creating if you have a problem with someone's point of view instead of taking to twitter and calling them all kinds of names. How about coming up with a better idea a better solution? An argument that they can't deny, that's how you change the world because we keep forgetting it's not about destruction, it might also be about persuasion and changing the hearts and minds of the people you disagree with. That's how we evolve. Take your ideas and pit them against somebody else's ideas and stand back and watch and keep reading and keep talking and keep listening and keep an open mind.
And that's how you make the world a better place in my opinion. And have faith. Faith is important to be attached to mythology, be attached to things you can't measure, don't be married only to rational rationality and to mathematical truths. There are certain things you can't measure. There are certain things that inspire us to laugh and to cry and forget. We're human sometimes that's what great arts about. You. Forget your biological creatures, you have to go to the bathroom, you have to have sex, you have to eat. Sometimes you get in this arrested state of higher being and that's also very important to so make space for faith and great art. It will feed your soul.
God, that was so good. And it was exactly two minutes. There's no way that was not rehearsed. That was just so good. Thank you guys for watching the latest episode of the Candace Owens show. I hope you guys enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. As many of you guys already know. Prager U is a five oh one C three nonprofit organization, which means we need your help to keep all of our content free to the public. Please consider making a tax deductible donation today. I would really appreciate your support