RPG Dimension X Game launches, 1st NFT Drop September 7 - Interview - Transcripts

September 01, 2022

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TCG Podcast Presented by Iskra - The Premier Destination for Web3 Gaming Website: https://iskra.world/ (https://iskra.world/) Discord: https://discord.gg/V4cFnTNeBN (https://discord.gg/V4cFnTNeBN) This Episode: Brand new blockchain game launch next week along with their free mint. Dimension X brings NFT Heroes together to fight against powerful enemies. Strategically place your heroes and sidekicks on the playing grid to deal the maximum amount of damage. A good gameplay loop that includes questing, leveling up heroes, and earning rewards. Check out my interview with the CEO this episode! I am not a financial Advisor Current episode InfoWebsite: https://www.dimensionxnft.com/ (https://www.dimensionxnft.com/) Discord: https://discord.gg/6JrT4dkZPa (https://discord.gg/6JrT4dkZPa) Twitter: https://twitter.com/DimensionX_NFT (https://twitter.com/DimensionX_NFT) Crypto Gaming Podcast InfoTwitter: https://twitter.com/TCGPodcast2 (@TCGPodcast2) Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_crypto_gaming_podcast/ (the_crypto_gaming_podcast) Discord - Support the Podcast: https://discord.gg/AWk9uXQS2r (https://discord.gg/AWk9uXQS2r) Music: Voxel Revolution by Kevin MacLeod Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/7017-voxel-revolution License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/feeling-home License code: FAWUIZSNHXQRLXDZ Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!) https://uppbeat.iotsoundrollmemories License code: IMGEAAXEIS9O33HJ Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/hartzmann/take-me-there License code: T6ZTIOPNTR83QOCI

Transcript

Welcome to the Crypto Gamer podcast presented by extra the premier destination for web three gaming. I'm your slightly knowledgeable host me. I am not a financial advisor. Just a gamer speculating in this episode we are going to be talking about crypto lulu and their upcoming game dimension X. And when I say upcoming I actually mean next week september 7th. So super soon now dimension X. Is a free to play play to earn strategic role playing game on the flow Blockchain set in the dimension X. Comic book universe. So they have a really interesting whole comic book feel to the whole game. In this game you use NFC heroes to fight villains and monsters. Level up your characters and support your faction in an ever changing world. You can build a super team and compete against other players for in game tokens that can be you these two men Nu N.

F. T heroes. They have a really great gameplay loop where you stay here. N. F. T. Heroes. To the game select quest's place your heroes on the battle grid to form a team and maximize your damage. Then you can earn experience points and use resources to level up earn faction XP, unlock sidekicks and rank up your superpowers. Then you can compete and place on the leaderboard in order to win new NFC heroes and token. So really a lot going on. They have their free drop also coming out on the same day as their game released.

September 7th. So really nice. There's no early buying in as soon as you buy your N. F. T. You can use it that exact same day, so really nice. I also have the chance to chat with the ceo of crypto lulu. So I'm really excited to share everything they have going on. And before we get into that interview we're gonna have a word from our podcast partner Iskra. Now, Israel believes the future of gaming is on the Blockchain and they offer the premier destination for players and developers to explore the thrill and opportunity of Web three gaming alongside a vibrant community. So right now actually you can explore a platform using Blockchain built for next gen, Web three games in a community system that rewards both players and developers based on their participation. You can sign up now at pioneer dot dot world and join their discord group to start exploring the future of gaming links are in the show notes as well.

Plus if you join their discord using our link, you'll be in line for some special rewards. Alright, back to dimension X. And our interview. Alright, so I'm really excited to welcome Mike to the show today, he's the Ceo of crypto lulu and they are developing the Blockchain game, dimension X. Thanks for joining me today, Mike,

Hey thanks for having me.

Yeah, absolutely, you guys have to mention next coming out super soon next week. So I'm really excited to talk about it before we get into sort of everything you guys have going on though, I'd love to hear a little bit about your background in the industry and what sort of drew you towards wanting to create projects on the Blockchain?

Yeah, it's a great question. Um so my background is from a game development standpoint. So I started making games on facebook and a million years before that there were even games on my space, if you can.

Oh yeah, All right,

So I'm old enough to remember the myspace days. Um so I've been making free to play games for the past 10 plus years. And most recently I was at a company called congregate. There were big web portal for awhile for flash games and I worked on their mobile gaming division and then I started my own company publishing games on IOS and age

would yeah,

About one year ago at a buddy reach out who would, who had made the transition from traditional gaming to Web three gaming. And he's like, you should really check this out, there's something special going on here. So I did and I agreed with them and that's how we got here.

Nice. Yeah, and that's interesting that you say you're from sort of a free to play background in development because I've heard a lot of people sort of compare this space to sort of the early days of free to play where pretty much no one thought it would work. Um And there was a lot of animosity sort of like you see right now with gamers, do you see a lot of that similarity to

Yeah. So that's one of the things that was most appealing about the spaces that it's got the same kind of feel that early facebook days had an early mobile days had, um, you know, if I did nickel for everybody who told me on facebook like moms will never play games like grays or on mobile, like nobody's going to play their games on their phones. Like the screen's too small. Who could, who could ever do that. And then obviously those, those trends have become self evident to your point before. I'm also really used to the criticism that parcel of working free to play games. So I'm fairly comfortable with it.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And unfortunately that criticism is not going away probably for a little while

still,

but we just got to grow.

I think that's right to, you know, typically the common refrain that you hear are easily disprove mint in this space. So that, and I have a lot of friends in traditional game industry have reached out and said the same things to me about this and this and that it's a grift or scam was like, yeah, there's some of that, but there's some of that everywhere. You can see that on mobile with people stealing your information android cracks down on that fairly regularly. So they're scams there. But that doesn't mean every app or game is a scam. It's certainly not mine. And then the second point of criticism that gets brought up a lot is you're a solution in search problem, I'm sure you've heard that one.

Yeah. Yeah.

To that, when I say, if you don't think that the current state of play and mobile and Pc and console gaming is a problem, then you're you're one of the few winners, right? Two companies on mobile control, 99% of all the revenues and distribution for every game developer on the planet. Two companies, Apple Google, when Apple and Google decided to change their algorithms, massive amounts of people get washed out of that industry and you're seeing, you're starting to see some of that reporting catch up now with the changes that Google and Apple made to their ecosystems there. The current speculation is something like 25% of all app developers that were active in the last year or more on Apple and Google are going out of business. Yeah, so like when, when people say, oh, you're a solution in search of a problem, like, well maybe you're just not seeing the same problems that Yes,

yes, absolutely, totally agree. Um I'd love to uh we'll continue this conversation a little bit, but I'd love to pivot a little bit uh, to, and dimension X. Um what can you tell me about the inception of and uh why dimension X was one of the first games that they really wanted to build out.

It's a good question. So as I mentioned before, my background is in mobile free to play gaming And I worked with a number of developers, um, and had a lot of success with them on IOS and android. So when we started thinking about building out the web three teen, one of the common pitfalls that you see with startups is that it's the first time that those members of that startup or building anything together and that's something I had zero interested. So I just grabbed the best developers that I worked with on mobile and said, hey, do you want to go build games on web three? We had all had success individually and won awards like editor's choice on google play and gave me the day on IOS and then collectively we had all worked together and had a lot of success financially from an insult perspective. So we had already worked together and I was like, if you're going to start on something brand new with a lot of risk and 13 is brand new and there's a lot of risk you want to have confidence that your team can execute. So that's how we built up the team that we're working with. The crips were about 10 people with, I think five or six developers at this point. Um, so yeah, engineering heavy, but I think you've got to be in 13,

absolutely totally agree. And so like where did dimension X come out of here then?

Yeah, it's a great question. I love you might notice on my walls for those who don't know we're doing a video chat. My walls are covered in comic book art and my office is filled with complex, I love comics. Right? So I one of the first games I wanted to make was something I was passionate about because I've always felt that if you're working on stuff that you're passionate about, that passion kind of infuses the project carried over the finish line. So everything we do is really kind of an expression of stuff that we're interested in personally and professionally. So it's a game. Obviously we build games for a living but it's got these comic book themes that run throughout the entire universe. So with dimension acts in terms of the core game, the way that it works is it's a idle simulation game with RPG elements. So you're leveling up little heroes and you're putting them on a three by three grid and you're really trying to match powers to the powers on the grid. So each hero has 123 powers and then you're matching that to a grid spot to deal the most DPS possible to get rewards in the game and rewards on the Blockchain. So for us, one of the things we wanted to do from a design perspective was make a game that was very similar in terms of the activities that you usually do on a day and day out basis on in crypto.

Right? So I'm sure like you I've got a bunch of holdings in web 31 of the things that I do is look at how the projects are doing on a daily basis, right? You go in, check their twitter check, discord check, I see tools or whatever you're using for the day to see how they're performing and then see if you need to make any changes in terms of strategies or holding. We wanted a game that had that kind of mirrored that experience in terms of what you're doing on a daily basis and the type of interactions that are required. So with dimension X you can play super deep, you can go on a ton of quests, you can have a ton of heroes, you can really mid max your strategy and go as deep as you want into the game or you can just go in and kind of throw your guys out there on the grid and be like, I'll see you in 24 hours,

that's awesome. Yeah, there's a lot there. I love to unpack. Um first of all I was actually gonna ask about the comic book style because I love it, I love that story telling type and you can definitely tell through your trailer and some of the early artwork that you guys have a lot of passion for that, so that's really cool and I'd love to hear um sort of how the endgame activities of players is going to kind of impact the lore of the game.

Yeah that's a great question. Um So when we started the project, one of the things that we were doing in Discord was for lack of a better term this kind of interactive role playing. So I grabbed five players from the community who had N. F. T. S. That's alright. Every day I'm gonna work with a comic artist. I'm going to write up a story. We're gonna have him draw a panel and then you as a community are going to vote on what happens next. Right? So you guys work together and tell me where you want the story to go.

They tell me on like a monday monday night I would go to the comic Artists like this is what the players decided, let's draw the next panel and here's what's gonna happen. So every day it was this call and response with the community where I'd worked with the Artist security panel. The community would tell us what they wanted to happen next. And at the end we have some type of culmination of the storyline right? And end in some climax. And what happened was we would change their stats and the art for their N. F. T. Heroes on the Blockchain based on the decisions that they made at the adventurer on Discord. So for instance uh one of the biggest adventures we did was on a dinosaur island and the group of heroes all chose to combine us. Um So what we did was we changed all the art on the Blockchain so that their heroes became dinosaur heroes. So when you play dimension X.

You're going to see the super rare dino heroes running around. And that's because those players chose to transform their characters through Discord event. Oh

very interesting.

Yeah. So that when we think about stuff that's fun to do on the Blockchain because that's not it's not a huge amount of work. It just requires creativity and the ability to get on Discord and have people make decisions every day. That's the type of thing we want to carry over to the game. So in Discord itself is where we want the majority of the storytelling to live. So a lot of the interactions and storytelling with the community will happen there and then you'll see those turn into limited time events in the game and things that move the storyline forward and then as players either win or lose those storylines in the game it moves back to discord where we tell more stories and rinse and repeat. So it's the cycle. I think one of the things I'm really conscious of is that most projects kind of launch pump discords really exciting and then it just kind of dies. Especially with games on Blockchain I want Discord to be active and have a role in the overall ecosystem, just like the game does and I think it's important to make sure that there's places for that and reasons for it to exist and for folks to interact with each other.

Yeah, definitely. That's a great way to keep people engaged online and on the discord. I like that a lot as far as the gameplay loop, I'd love to hear a little bit more about that because you guys have some really interesting mechanics, especially as how people level up or get rewards. I mean, I like the idea of everyone sort of fighting the same monster or what have you and then sort of having the damage dealt, sort of determining your rank and stuff. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Yeah, PVP is I think PVP is simultaneously like one of my favorite mechanics in the game and the thing I hate the most,

I totally agree with you, I have a love hate relationship.

Yeah, when things are going well, it's great and when they're not feels real bad. So we wanted like, one of the things that makes games interesting is obviously the content that the developers build out, but really like the core of any game that lasts for more than a few months is social and to get people to be social with each other, you need to put some structures in place to do that and competition is one of them. So we're thinking about the game, we're like, all right, how are we going to make sure this thing has legs and has longevity because if they're just relying on us to pump out content, I know for a fact that players are gonna mow through any content that we put out there way faster than attempting to. It's just the reality of live operations and free to play games. I've been doing it for long enough that however long you think the content is gonna last for the community and they're going to be engaged divided by five and that's how long you actually have. So a great way to kind of make people continue to be excited and engages that PVP because the content is other players, right? You. That competition is the thing that drives you to come back to every day to improve. So, we wanted that to be the cornerstone of the game. So the way it works is you come in, you're competing for the highest DPS score either for times quest, so do as much DPS as you can in this amount of time or for a boss health quest. So the boss's health is working its way down and you want to deal as much damage to that boss before he dies. So those are the two flavors of quest and if you're the best you get a pool token, which is a fungible token on flow that you can use in the game to make new heroes.

Or you can take it out of the game and trade it with other players. You can also earn XP for your heroes. So they get stronger as they level up. You can earn power tokens which can be used to upgrade a hero's power and you can earn faction experience. And so if you don't you're not competitive on the leaderboard with other players. We still wanted a way for you to be competitive in the game and make some progress by virtue of the fact that we were just showing up and playing. So that's where factional words came from and those will give you different bonuses as you level up your faction experience with the different factions. We have a game.

Very interesting. Yeah. And so you talk about sort of, some people maybe not be able to be competitive as there's always some people that race for the top rewards and everything and you guys have a free to play mode that might sort of cater to that a little bit. What sort of the difference between someone who might hint a mite mint a hero day one versus someone who goes in and tries to go full on, free to play.

Yeah, so free to play, players can get one power heroes out of the gates. So they will those heroes are not on chain. So you get you can still play the game if you're free to play player but you are not on chain with the one power heroes so they can't be traded on the Blockchain. However you can earn our in game currency still and you can use that to admit in game heroes just by playing the game, you're going to need to be competitive to do it but you can do it if you meant from our genesis run, all those heroes have three powers and there's different rarities that are associated with them too. So you can get more rare heroes which are slightly better. But we've really gone out of the way to balance the game to make sure that the most competitive skillful players can compete with each other regardless of the number of powers the hero has or the amount of rarity. Um The other thing that we're doing is we're creating and this will be after launch. We're creating a special type of quest that nukes powers level, perks and rarity. So it just creates a total skill based encounter. So if you have heroes that may not be as rare have as many powers or as high level as other players were going to bring everybody down to the same level. So it's just the most competitive players win because we want to make sure that skill, skillful play has a presence and a role in the game. You can get rewards for it to avoid a situation where somebody goes by like all the best and most rare heroes.

Just kind of.

Sure. Yeah, absolutely and sort of with your gameplay and sort of the battle grid I think is really interesting. Um And how sort of, that adds a lot of layers of strategy and how you sort of lay out your characters. Can you go in a little depth about how sort of the battle grid works and how you can probably have multi player um Multipliers um depending on where you put certain characters.

Yeah, sure. So the way that the grid works is it's a nine by nine grid or three by three grid, nine total grid spots. So when you place a hero in a grid spot it'll activate each adjacent grid spot next to it and pass its DPS from one spot to the other. And so you can chain DPS from one hero to another if you're activating the spots properly and if you match up the hero powers on top of that, the amount of damage that gets passed from one grid spot to another magnifies exponentially. So you start seeing huge gains and DPS as you go down the chain. So it's really about trying to change the longest chain together on that nine square grid On top of that. We also have perks. And the way that perks work is that they'll activate certain powers or they'll activate on debuffs, right? So you may have a perk that wants you to put a hero in a spot that's not necessarily good for your overall grid layout, but it'll buff all fire damage on that grid by 200%. So you're willing to take a broken grid layout in exchange for that fire damage because it's more DPS. So there's a lot of there's actually a ton of meat there when you start getting into the mid max game, trying to generate the most gps for the characters and heroes of the grid. We saw we did two beta so far with our discord users, we saw a huge differences between player scores, which is exactly what we were hoping to see.

Yeah,

and I think that's only that's super important for an RPG game, obviously progression is one of the biggest things and then also having a game that's super easy to jump in but has a lot of depth. So that if you want to become adept at it, you can really dive in, learn the meta and really excel that way.

That's right. Um We, you know, I'm a big world of Warcraft player and World of Warcraft has always kind of thrived on the notion of like easy to play, hard to master. And I think when you talk about creating games that are as accessible as possible, this type of system makes a lot of sense because average players who don't know anything about the mechanics, who don't want to know anything about the mechanics can play. And then folks who want to mid max can play too.

Yeah absolutely and it's not just sort of your main characters that you're sort of putting out there to attack these bad guys. You guys also have sidekicks which are releasing and I believe everyone might be getting some of these I'm not sure how these work.

Yeah so every player gets four sidekicks to start. So one of the things we want to make sure is that most people coming into the game are going to have close to a full grid that they can't deploy for heroes. So if you meant on Gaia and you're not a part of the allow list or any of the other um O. G. Status or anything like that you'll get three heroes on the midday plus the four sidekicks that you get in the game. And then early faction rewards will give you two more pretty quickly. So you'll have nine heroes that you can play with. Sidekicks are just one power heroes that are not on chain. Obviously you're gonna want to have some heroes that have multiple powers eventually because they just give you more utility. And where you can put heroes on the grid because some grids have multiple power nodes that you want to activate to.

Okay very cool very cool. Um And so sort of getting to some of the rewards and how that sort of works. One of the aspects that a lot of black one of the aspects that a lot of Blockchain games have had sort of a difficult time getting right is an in game economy. Um, as especially in year one, we've seen a lot of games really not focused on that very much and it's really been to their detriment. How does sort of your team go about sort of solving some of the problems that exist there and making something that works with dimension X sort of long

term. That's a great question. The common issue that you see in most free to play games and most games on the Blockchain is the same issue and its inflation. Um I think one of the, one of the challenges that you see in Blockchain that's fairly unique is some of the things that you can do free to play games to deal with inflation, you can't really do in Blockchain games because you can't just introduce like a brand new economy that sits over the game. The way it works, it free to play is if you screw up the economy and you're giving up too much currency, you just create a new currency, you're like, oh yeah, here's this new currency and you needed to get these new heroes. So we're basically like starting over again, that's like the limited time event system that you see in free to play games. That's what it's designed to do, is to replicate a time in the game when it was balanced because most games inevitably end up in a balanced state can't do that really with

kids

because people get upset and you're dealing with fungible tokens that need to have some value over time. So inevitably what you have to do from the start is really being inflation hawk. So you need to control supply and you're not controlling supply because you have some eyeball on like prices on the secondary market. Right? You get this question a lot people like oh how are you going to maintain the integrity of this? Cause the price of your N. F. T. S. You're over your token. Like that's actually the wrong question. Right?

That's the wrong question because the price of those things are a function of a healthy thriving game. Right? Like a healthy thriving game isn't healthy and thriving because those things are priced correctly. A those things are priced correctly because the game is healthy and thriving And to keep it healthy and thriving, you have to control supply and maintain rarity. And so we for us we're giving enough tokens in the first four months to meet 1000 additional heroes. That's it. So our token supply is going to be super super tight. And the only way that you can get the tokens is playing the game, we're not selling any tokens and we never will buy or sell any tokens and neither will any of our investors at least from us. We're not like granting our investors tokens or anything like that. So the all this this token is entirely for utility in the game. It's entirely to the benefit of players. And the thing that typically happens with most of these games is the developers like, okay, we're gonna push like a huge amount of volume of the token onto the decks or some exchange where the players can gobble it up and once that happens, the price plummets, right?

The developers make a bunch of money and they're thrilled that the players usually aren't because the thing that was rare is no longer rare. So it no longer has value.

Yes. Yes. It's almost like insider trading kind of when you think about it exactly

like

they know what's happening. So they know exactly what to do and they act on it. Which, you know in the world of stocks and bonds and corporations. That's illegal.

Yeah.

Good reason. Yeah.

And the world of crypto it should be that that's why we decided never to sell any of our tokens ourselves because we have we have, you know the phrasing, there's got information that other people don't have access to and if you act on it, that's bad news, right? You did it at somebody else's detriment. So we never wanted to sell the token because we just felt like at its at its core, their inherent conflicts of interest associated with having a token and also being like being a, being a maker of the market, being active in the market and then also controlling the supply and demand. Like all of those things create huge conflicts of interest that we didn't want to deal with at all. So the only for the token if you want to earn it you can play the game. We're gonna be really tight on supply, we're really tight on supply because the only way these games continue to work is for rare things to be rare right? And if you make them not rare then nobody plays the game. So it really has nothing to do with the price of the token or the price of the N. F. T. Itself. It has to do with like making a functional game right?

If you've played World of Warcraft for instance that every item you got was a legendary item nobody would play World of Warcraft

right? Because

there's nothing to play for by the same token if you played our game and you could just get plentiful heroes nonstop and everybody has the best hero that nobody has the best here. So you have to maintain the integrity of rarity and the only way to do that is to be really stingy from the start which were focused on. Yeah.

Yeah absolutely. And one of the other aspects that I really like that your team is doing is releasing the N. F. T. Heroes the day the game is launching and that is something that has bothered me endlessly in the past year. Seeing NFC drops for things that are not only coming out months later but sometimes years later. And I mean I'm not gonna I'm not gonna say the games but people in the space and you know that there's there's some big ones out there who have sold their NFC for thousands of dollars that are not coming out for two plus years. What are your what are your thoughts sort of on that mechanic? And also thank you for not doing

that. So thank you for thanking me. But you know as as somebody that has seen the space the way that you see the space we're in total agreement and alignment. I think it's ridiculous. Um And I think it's outrageous that developers are selling items for a game that doesn't exist yet. Um two players and then having them wait for years. I think it's toxic from a community standpoint because you're asking people to take a huge risk and a leap of faith based on your skills to execute. And you know, I hate to tell you I made a career of making games and they're hard to make their complicated and they take a long time. Even if you're good at it. I mean we're fast, we started in this 10 months and we're gonna ship which is super fast. Um Most of these teams, some when you see some of the things that are being promised in the space. You know folks who are promising MMO RPgs, right?

Or like full VR virtual worlds with like none of that, those things Well, there are crafts. It took five years to build with the best of team that arguably has ever existed on planet Earth ever five years and untold amounts of money. Right? I think a lot of these teams are like, we raised 10 million bucks. It's gonna be great. We're gonna we're gonna be able to make this game like no, you need a lot more money, a lot more runway and a lot more bodies and

talent

and a lot more talent. And I also think that that's not the that's not the reason that we got into the space in the first place, Right? That's also why our drop is free. We we believe really strongly that One of the defining characteristics of the things that's most unique about Web three is that the traditional roles that are occupied by the community and by the developer had been smashed and there, I love it. Like we talked about a roadmap with the community, they give us actual feedback that we act on. We do game design in front of the community with the community and chat about where the projects going. And I feel like projects like that is the thing that's unique about Web three is totally different from game development on pc or mobile or console where the community is held at arm's distance and the inherent like the inherent relationship between the community on mobile on Pc and console is a little bit adversarial, right? Because the developer is just asking for money one direction from the community In Web three, we were like well if this is actually about making something together, let's let's not just talk the talk, let's actually do that, let's work with the community building game. And it's been probably the most unique and rewarding experience of my career up to this point.

Yeah. Do you feel like that adds a little bit of extra pressure as opposed to the normal flow of things where communities are kind of left in the dark as opposed to them sort of working with you almost from ground zero. In a lot of

cases the pressure there is only pressure if you can't do the things that you're saying you're gonna do right and we're very careful about saying we're gonna do this where we're discussing this or we'll never do this. And I think clarity of communication with the community and also holding the community accountable is important to like this degree of access doesn't come without expectations for me and the rest of the team in the same way that when we grow our team and bring folks on, I have expectations of how they're going to behave as a team member. I have expectations of how the community is going to behave and act with the team to so folks who are this kid's doing the things that we're saying to either bloat scope or, you know, criticizing a lot without also doing the next thing, which is presenting an idea and being vulnerable, right? Like that. Those are inherent responsibilities that I expect of our community and they've been bringing those to the table and over and over again. So it's not a one way street, right? If we're working together, then then you also get that side of the equation and that side of the equation is, hey, if you criticize, I'm totally fine with it, I like criticism and that's how we grow. But you also have to do the other part, which is much less pleasant, which is like, I don't hate that idea. Here's my idea and you make yourself vulnerable to us and to the rest of the community to talk about the merits of that idea and it's very uncomfortable for folks. I've had a lot of conversations with the community where like I didn't like doing that. It's like, okay, now, you know what it's like to be a game developer?

It's

unpleasant.

Sometimes

it's great.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'd love to pivot back a little bit to dimension X. Um, and you guys being on the flow Blockchain. Um, what is it about flow that made you guys sort of want to build their, um, and have the game on that Blockchain.

Yeah. So I think this is fairly comment in the space and people just kind of chalk it up to like, oh that's web three and I refused to chalk it up to web three the first time I used meta mass was an absolute tire fire. I've been working on tech for over 10 years and I've never felt dumber or more lost in my life than what I bought ethereum for the first time.

Oh my gosh, I totally agree with you. I was so terrified. I was gonna lose all my money.

Exactly. It feels so sketchy. It felt, it felt sketchy, very uncomfortable. You're putting lots of money out there to the ether and then the thing that you paid for doesn't immediately show up, right? And then there there are all these moments where they're like, oh there's gas and you're not paying enough gas and it's like, okay, well how much is enough gas? Like it changes every second what is happening,

right?

So that whole process like getting a wallet, remembering your your secret phrase, making sure that you have your public key but not your secret phrase shared, Making like buying ethereum, having your bank reject like the ethereum transactions because like, well who's this, what are you trying to buy crypto for? My bank rejected my initial crypto transaction five times.

Yeah. Yeah.

And when I thought about that from like my, I put on my developer had thought about that from a user perspective because at the time this was in the heart of the bull market and everyone's like oh man like we're gonna on board so many people like there's so many like regular normals out there, they're just gonna love

crypto

and then I thought about like my mom right? Or like think about like a family member of yours trying to buy the theory and for the first time do you think that they're going to go through that process?

They made me do that for them. That's right.

Yeah. I mean, so when I use the dapper wallet for the first time to buy a top shot NF two that was like a light bulb going off in my head right? That when I went through it's a it's a custodial wallet right? So you're not managing, you're not managing your own key. They are, it's like it was like any transaction on amazon or ebay right? It felt very very natural. Go in, buy the thing, put in fiat currency right? And then get the thing you want right? Instead of having this weird abstraction layer where it's like alright go in by Krypto, the Krypto has variable value and then use that to buy the thing and maybe you got enough to also cover gas. Like just that whole experience just felt super weird. So using dapper wallet the first time and also just kind of seeing the breadth of the top shot community right? Um that community I think is when I think about what went three should look like in the future.

That's what I think it should look like their, their dads in the midwest who are buying moments of like 10 bucks flipping a mid 20 right? There are whales all over the world that are buying moments for 10 20 K, right? So, and there's everything in between. And I think on ethereum, what you really see is there's a handful of whales that are just pushing around their ethereum into projects that sit on top shot. There's like a thriving ecosystem of all different price points. There's a broad base and there's a really easy to use experience for onboarding and I thought with a free to play game, the whole point of doing free to play the games is to lower the barriers of entry. So like why would you stop at the game? Why would you also take that line of reasoning to the wallet to where I think it's incredibly important to have a consistent, easy to use, easy to onboard experience from the start and flow and dapper wallet where the wallet Blockchain that did that the best.

Yeah, absolutely. And that's something I hear a lot is that the ease of access is something that is just killing people entering the web three space like you said, um, what some other reasons or some other ways that sort of you guys or other game deaths could help to on board web to users because I hear that one a lot. But that's another way that you guys could possibly do something.

Yeah, I think inevitably we've got to get to mobile. Mobile is the place where all the traffic is, where all the eyeballs with the fact that Web three still predominantly lives on desktops. Pcs acts like that's, it's fine for now. But ultimately like if you want broad adoption, you need to be on mobile. Um, and that can be mobile. Web, that can be the google play store, that can be the app store and hopefully more decentralized options show up that are specific to Web three on IOS and android too. Um, the current state of play, there is still a little fuzzy, like some titles get through and get approved on the app store, some get through and approved on google play, but not all of them. And I think ultimately like you hear a lot of noise from the Apple and google team that it's about like, oh, we just want to make sure it's not a predatory experience. Right? It's like, come on you and I like you and I both know it's about your cut. It's about the revenue share. So I think that needs to get clarified specifically.

Um, for secondary market places, I think that's, that's probably the big hiccup right now, but if you want to unlock most of the traffic that exists in the world, you're gonna have to do it on mobile and free to play is the best way to do it. You want, you don't want folks to have this weird experience. Whether logging out of the game into their, their wallet, logging back into the game that identifies the wallet, you want all that stuff to be living within an app or on mobile web. Super easy to use without a whole bunch of hiccups or, or experiences that take you out of it. You also don't want it to feel like you don't want to feel the way that it feels right now on Madam asked when you do a transaction, like every one of those steps is a potential break point in the funnel, right? Every transaction where you don't have enough gas to afford it or you're signing multiple transactions, you almost want players to understand that they have something of value when like they're done playing what was otherwise a really fun and familiar experience, like any other game. And then when they're done, they're like, what do I do with these things? Oh cool there at FTS. Like I could go trade those or sell them to somebody else or I can use them in another game, right? So you don't, you don't lead with it necessarily. But you show the utility over time when the time is right.

Yes, absolutely, totally agree. No, I kind of put it better myself honestly. Um, so with crypto lulu and dimension X, let's say sort of the next year goes just awesome, nothing ever goes perfectly but as close to perfect as it can. Um What sort of the dream scenario for you guys as to where dimension X. Goes and also crypto lulu, this sort of community keeps growing games going well, where do you guys sort of see yourself in the next year?

Yeah, that's a good question. I most I look out one month but I have a lot of folks pushing me to look out further and I certainly don't, I do a lot of catastrophe planning but I don't do rosy scenario planning. Um And I've got a lot of folks pushing me for that too. So like the game looks really good, like you've got the right partner, the right team, cool N. F. T. Strategy and the right market on the right chain things can happen that are good and I'm like don't say it. Um So yeah that like if things if things go well, I think one of the things that we believe is a team really strongly is that we're in a we're in a phase right now of Web three, that's really about experimentation, There's gonna be a time when another axes or something like that rolls around and then everybody's hair lights on fire and then everybody in the web three space is going to start copying that right and you're gonna see all the acsi clones by the way, hitting probably a year from now. Right? Because everyone that fund raised six months ago when Axl was still blowing up or at the start of the year they fund raised off building an ACSi clone. And all those games have about a year and a half cycle. So you'll see all those clones coming out.

Um but I think no, there's no clear winners in the space or models to follow the way it is a mobile where folks are like copy, clash of plants over and over again or clash real. So for me, a win scenarios, we keep making experimental things in the Blockchain that explore the unique aspects of the Blockchain, specifically, the stuff that I'm really passionate about is interoperability both within our games. Right? So finding a way for N F T s double utility across multiple titles, but also across other projects in the Blockchain too. I think that that's the defiant. You know, the royalties obviously are a huge game changer for developers and it's something that we're leaning into really hard. But interoperability is the thing that's the most unique aspect of the Blockchain and the most exciting, like the notion that other things that you've done that are unrelated to my game have benefited my game. Right. That that concept is something that has been noticeably and painfully absent from from games for as long as I've played every game is an island, right? And the things that I've done in Zelda have no impact on halo things I've done in halo have been packed up with Warcraft. I don't know why that needs to be the case. And I think people play a lot of games and it's important to honor and respect the things that people do play.

It's a great way to onboard communities and create excitement, create utility. I think that for me like when we look a year out, if we've had a lot of success that's the white whale for me. Which is figuring out a way to crack that in a scalable Respectful way. Because the other thing is like we start looking at interoperability on Web three the and you start reading other projects terms of service. That's where it breaks down

because

a lot of projects like oh yeah you totally own that N. F. T. Which don't on the I. P. Don't try and use

it were

the same way we're building a valuable I. P. And I don't want people building derivative works on top of it. But I think there's ways to do interoperability which doesn't doesn't take somebody else's intellectual property but honors the fact that they're really heavily invested in other projects that we think are cool too.

Yeah. Absolutely and I think that's something that's been missing in this space. I think a lot of people talked about was the interoperability and it's there's kind of a distinct lack of collaborations between different games Even though you know that's something that especially last year people talking about N. F. T. Is being used in multiple games but each individual projects like I don't know about that. Um So yeah, I think it would be nice that there's a lot more collaboration going on and people sort of working together to make that a possibility.

Yeah. I actually think that the solution there is not people working together because there's inherently the interests aren't alive. Right? So for instance like we play a lot of raid party. I think it's super cool game and they have some economy issues. I think they're obviously but raid party is a cool game. But if I told everybody that had a raid party N. F. T. That they could play dimension X. And dual token and use that fuel token to advance in the game. Then all of a sudden we've taken a 10-K.

Drop and made it into like a 30 K. Drop because there's like 20,000.

Yeah, that's true.

So that's where the disinterest comes. But I think what's interesting is being able on a on like a black chain level to say All right, what's your madam? Ask wallet? Like sign a transaction from your meta mask wallet connected to your flow wallet. So we know that you say who you are. So it's verified that you've signed it. So we know that that's your wallet and it's connected to this identity on flow. And then we can say, hey we've noticed that you have 100 N. F. T. S. From raid party and we'll give you like a unique raid party N.

F. T. In our game. Just because you have this 150 or like you get this stuff right, you get the main party buff for your heroes and so all your heroes get plus 25 fire damage or something like that. 25% fire damage as a result of having this great party N. F. T. S. That's the stuff where like I don't think we need to ask permission from other projects to do that. I do think that it's great for other communities to get bonuses based on what they've done in other projects at Web three. And that's how you start building out brick by brick. Interoperability across projects without really getting deep into the collaboration space.

Yeah. Yeah absolutely. I'm sort of moving away from that little bit getting into your roadmap before we sort of call it quits here. And some of the other stuff that you guys have going on in your platform, other games sort of in the pipeline with fantasy, fantasy baseball, steak, snake and idle pet babbler. Um What are some of the timelines here um or are they sort of a little bit further off as you guys sort of focused on dimension X.

Yeah so dimension X. Is out on the seventh and I think we probably the first month is always really intense after game launch and that will get into a rhythm from the live operation standpoint. So all those games are they've gotten a lot of progress and then all the resources kind of drew into dimension X for the first launch and then they'll disperse out and we'll get a live operations team on dimension X. But there's a lot of like one time cost, getting the game out right, getting flow Blockchain, working, dapper wallet, a whole bunch of other pieces getting their backend, server side infrastructure setup. Like all those are one time big costs that require a lot of resources in terms of the features that we're gonna work on out of the gate for dimension X. The two big ones that we've chatted about is infusion. So the idea that you take one hero and destroy them and pump it into another hero to buff that hero up. You think that there's a lot of interest in that and it can allow us to do some really interesting combinatorial stuff there too. And then the other idea is crafting, right? So you have like four or five heroes and there'd be like a crafting recipe for a specific type of hero in the game that would be like wildly powerful or useful and some other portion of the game. So you could potentially put those heroes together to craft something new. So those are the two features we're talking about.

We're probably gonna do Infusion first and crafting still needs a lot more work. Baseball is currently being worked on right now. We're probably gonna start there with we're going to roll that out sections, so we'll have like parts of that game that come out first and then we'll just keep building with feedback from the community all along. I think if there's one big takeaway from dimension X is that it took too long and nine months for us is too long. I want titles that are shipping in 4 to 6 months. And then at that point, I want to do what I'm doing with the community for big parts of the game, right? With dimension X. Really, we're getting feedback on stuff. We've already decided to build and had built once it's out. So we're like, here's the grid, here's how it works. I think in a perfect world, we would have said here's two nodes for a grid. How many more grid spots do you think there should be?

Here's how many we think we should there should be, but we want you to play with it and then give us feedback. Right? So that we have way more interaction with the community as we're building. So I think the next tier of projects, you're gonna see a lot more active development with the community and it's fun. We're doing that with a game called risky rangers right now. We're playing it today on discord. We have It's a Perma. Death push your luck RPG where we play live. So it's five players. It's a high score mechanic. Um and you're rolling die to get attack damage on the bus and the first player to 200 wins. But if you lose your N.

F. T. Is destroyed.

Very interesting.

If you win you get prizes from other projects. So we typically give away like $300 worth of that. FTS for every play test for risky ventures. We've had sessions where half the mice have died. All devices have died have died. So today I think we'll probably see like 25, of ice die in our session. But that's like over the next year and our our focus in the in the interim is doing that type of development with the community which is as close to real time as we can get it. And extremely interactive. I want the community's fingerprints all over the game. I think that's the coolest part about Web three and it's also the most fun.

Yeah absolutely. No I'm super excited. Um so yeah full game are the games releasing September seven along with the freemen same day. Really excited to get in there. I'll definitely be minting my character's really looking forward to it, Mike,

awesome man. Well listen I I'm looking forward to the game, watch to looking forward to playing it and I really appreciate the opportunity to talk about the

yes absolutely. We'll be dropping all of your socials so people can get connected, especially on the discord. Um So thanks again and you have a great rest of your

day.

So a big thanks to Mike for joining me today. I'm really looking forward to diving into this game once it fully releases next week it looks like it has a really good gameplay loop and I like the idea of everyone sort of attacking the same enemy at once and rewards being given out based on who did the most damage. They have some really good strategy based on your hero layouts on this grid system that could really drive people towards flipping N. F. T. S to find the best possible combinations each round. Hopefully I can give you some updates in a few weeks after I've gotten into some of the gameplay and you can check out all their social information in the show notes so that you can stay up to date on the latest updates. Alright, that's all for today. Thanks for listening. And if you enjoyed what you heard, please subscribe and follow me on twitter or instagram for one future episodes come out and if you want to support the podcast, feel free to join our discord where you get access to exclusive NFC giveaways, chat with me about upcoming projects and find out what I'm investing in details are in the show notes. Thanks again and happy NFC hunting.

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