How to Sell Anything on Facebook and Instagram | Throwback 4Ds from 2018 - Transcripts
Today's episode of the GaryVee Audio Experience is a throwback 4Ds episode in 2018 that covers numerous topics to help you run your business. I cover topics like how to build trust within your business, investing money back into your business, how many pieces of content you need to make a day, saving money, becoming a manager and so much more!
Overall this is a really fun episode and I want your feedback on it! Enjoy!
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This is the Gary Vee audio experience. The reason I'm a good business man is because I play outside the framework. You've got your perspective. I just want to be happy. Don't you want to be happy?
What can I answer for you, my man? Okay, do we have a limit? Yeah, there's a limit of time, right? I mean, I'm going to try to get to everybody, but. I mean, everyone's going to kind of hear
about business issues, but.
I mean, I'm going to try to get to everybody, but. Art and furniture has been sold through galleries. Yes. Most of the time. Yes. Well, I'm starting to change that trend but not just art in the sense that it's like, you know, $1,000 art. No, we're talking about things that are escalating into the hundreds of thousands. Okay. And so now I'm trying to create, okay. So I've been successful in doing that. We built a business from zero to now just a little over 2 million this year, which is awesome.
Okay. But through traditional PR, I'm finding, dude, I've been in architectural digest, fast company, all the magazines, but that's starting to reach its limit, right? So how do I increase sales for the studio
to keep growing with.
Without PR? Yeah, without PR through social media. Yeah. So we, so once I got into Gary Vee, I started, you know, we started to really go heavy on social, started creating more content, now actually have a full-time video team that's in-house that's doing, so we're creating a show and also doing a podcast, basically doing everything that you've been saying to do. The tricky part is to get these consumers, people that are buying high-end, you know, spending 60, 70, 80, $100,000 to buy directly from us and to grow that. Because a lot of people are using interior designers or architects, so I'm reaching out to them. They know us really well. But how do I go even further? Like, how do I take a 2 million to 10 million to, you know? And so that's where, and I feel like it's personal brand building. I mean, it's my name. 100% So I just have to build that part
and then see the sales. I mean, sure, 100%. I've been producing content every day for 13 years. Like, only in the last 18 months has it gotten to the critical enough scale where it feels like it's something different than what you're up to right now. Meaning, like, I had a base. You've known me for a while. Like, I had a base, but it's nowhere close to what it is now. I mean, when you're building a brand,
guys, Nike almost went out of business.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really close. You went to court? So like, I don't think, you know, I think the, you know, Fernando's super simple, man. Like, you haven't even started. Like, the answer is what you're doing. Like, content, acting like a media company and running ads and creating content. And like, it's all the same shit. Like, when TV's a good deal, like Procter and Gamble, like, you buy Tide and like, Crest toothpaste because television was a good deal. And the companies that figured it out and could afford it, and da-da-da-da-da-da, like Schlitz beer and Schafer beer and Valentine's ale and the 30, like your great-great-grandfather drank that shit because radio was a good deal in 1937. Like, the good deal right now, in my opinion, is the seven platforms that live on this. When you take it to the step two of actually becoming the media company and not just an advertiser, right?
And that's where like a CPG ice cream can do both. Whereas like, hemp and cannabis can't. And, you know, we're all stretched thin. You know, like, you know, thinking about your family business with the catering, like, when I was 28 years old, like all these kids are like, it hasn't happened yet. I'm like, I was packing boxes of wine and shipping it in styrofoam in the basement of a liquor store in Springfield, New Jersey when I was 29 years old. Like, so you're gonna, I'm gonna, you're gonna struggle to get tears out of me that you're four months into your t-shirt brand and you're not supreme yet. I think you just have to put in the work for a significant amount of time because you're absolutely right. My entire thesis is that Architectural Digest and Fast Company in 1996, those two articles would have changed your whole career. That just doesn't- Well, 2014 it did.
Great, that just doesn't- Well, 2014 it did. Great. So now it's not anymore, and so I plateaued with PR, so I'm sort of, I came here actually
to try to hire VaynerMedia to help us in the next stage. And good news, because Nick knows this, like, we're, I mean, I'm spending all my time trying to figure out how to help, like, create a business to service SMB. You know, we don't know how to take money here from Vayner unless you're paying us like two million bucks. You know, like, we have things, but we're not good at taking it, which is bad for a business, so I'm, like, spending a lot of time on it. But the reason we haven't done it yet, and the reason I'm hesitant, and why this took five years to, like, in my head before I did it is, I'm not gonna take somebody's money unless we can deliver. And at a small base, it's just better to do a lot of things internally. Like, the more I realize, I'm like, oh, it's gonna end up being consultant, or this really works. Like, you pay 10,000 bucks, I'm watching all the people that email Nick, and then he tells me, or I see in the Facebook group, like, there's been some crazy shit. What's your, what's been,
you know, keeping closer to it? The guy Joe Mullins coming in November, just, he was in the first group. Okay, and? And you confirmed kind of the personal brand. I think he invested, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars in his personal brand in year one, and he was the number one player in the space, and, you know, he couldn't be happier with the time he spent here.
Yeah, okay, and, yeah. So, like, I think the biggest thing I can tell you is that you have to make as much content as possible, and you have to spend as much. This is where people get, this is a very interesting subtle insight. People take pride in organic reach, cause they think there's something special about getting good organic reach in social when the ads are under priced. So, like, I literally would, like, if you didn't have a, I know you do, cause I know some of our limited interactions, but like, if you didn't have an Instagram account, right, and something as great as, like, Taco, and food and Jersey Shore, I'd be like, you don't even need to build one, Just run ads on Instagram. You probably, you know, it's funny. Let me rephrase. I do think having a nice little base for like, I now think people's Instagram account is PR. I feel like people search Google to find your Instagram account to get a read on what you're about. So I think organic content's value now is almost more like brand and PR. Like it's a cost, like you should spend money on it just to have like a foundation. But that should be 20% of your energy and money and 80% should be figuring out the ads that drive your business.
Sotheby's and Christie's sell million dollar items
That's what I believe, first it's doing it. So selling 60 and 80 thousand dollar items on Instagram's a cakewalk.
It's about running ads against people that live in Malibu. Yeah, but do you know that converting a customer at a 60 to 100 thousand dollar price point is a tough thing to do in a Facebook or Instagram environment?
It's tough to do, yes. Yeah, it's tough to do, yes. But not as tough as people think. Meaning, I think, so I'll explain. Give me one second because I want to get this off because I don't want to forget it. I think what we're about to roll out with volume method is really gonna be a big factor. Here's what I mean by that. I think it's easier to close a 60 thousand dollar person if you make 497 pieces of content and run micro media. Because the reason it's hard to close somebody for 60K is people go broad because they want to lower their CPM or reach as many people. The reality is to hit somebody 60K, you almost have to do a one minute rant, specifically to 15 type people in theory that are likely to buy it and overpay for 5,000 people
to see it that don't have any interest to get to the 15. I do it on Facebook. I've targeted Upper East Side
where I know most of the pieces go, or Tribeca. And then it's Upper East Side African American male who works in tech. Then it's Upper East Side, Third Generation, Trust Fund Baby
and you're making a reference to Ibiza. And add a layer with a partner, a fleet client, a watch company that's valuable, right?
Add that contextual relevance. The place where I've seen that, you know, it's funny, Nick, that one's brought me a lot of non-results because so many people are following things from an aspirational standpoint. But buying first party data of purchase and tender things of that nature or creating lookalike audiences on whatever data you already have, you know, it's been interesting. I often say that, but I'm starting to peel back a little bit. Yeah, because if you're a fan of Philippe, right? Like you think you're high, but so many people are aspirational and they're following high net worth brands, but they're not in consideration set. So you're wasting media dollars because you're not really getting to something. This is where like, this is where like really knowing your craft though, like I know a lot about wine. So somebody may say, oh, do Opus One, but I know I can do like Romani Conti Latash. Like you know enough about like comp artists or, you know, so there's like, if you can get nerdy about what you do, that's always just a very important insight. But I think it's content too. I think one of the, but it's interesting about content.
I think a lot of people that try to replicate my model aren't able to get away from the business goal. So like, if you're doing content, you need to act as if your architectural digest, not Pablo Picasso and people struggle with that. Like it's the intent behind the content. Are you actually trying to replace the B2B magazine or the B2B magazine or program? Or are you subtly still doing some version of a commercial wrapped up in content? And I think that's, for example, you know, we're about to start a wine project. So my lovely partner in crime is here. I would want us to act more like wine spectator than QVC. It's why Wine Labor TV worked. You know, when I was a store owner, but I really took, and I thought I was gonna do QVC. Like I tell people a lot, like the origin story is like, I'm about to do QVC. And as soon as the camera went on, I'm like, oh fuck, I need to do like lifestyles of the rich and famous or something.
Like I just knew that I couldn't do QVC. Like it wasn't gonna work. Like if I was just selling, like I just, I knew that there would, you know, I knew my team would pick four wines a show. I knew inevitably I would like some of them, but was really interesting. It got so clean. By episode 50, all the way to 1000, I never had a wine on the show that we had more than five cases of. I completely went content because I didn't want, it was a lose-lose situation. If I had 200 cases of it, first of all, I was so committed to show, I could pan it and then it would be very difficult to sell. Or I would say it's awesome. Some kid on the wine team quits and just tells everybody, oh, he's just peddling wine. We had 200 cases of that, Zinfandel. I didn't wanna create the exposure.
So as you get into content, wherever you are on it, I think the part that people struggle with is the intent. When I make content, I am literally in Wikipedia nonprofit mode. You guys know. Like I'm very comfortable making a piece of content of like buy my sneaker. Like I'm very comfortable to sell when I wanna sell, but I'm not disguising selling when I'm putting out content. I saw sneakers. You know, super important. You reviewing another artist's gallery in a video and giving them love because you genuinely like their work is probably the most significant thing you can do for your business. That's a brain fog. But then what you're doing is you're becoming
the artist whisperer to a community not selling your shit. Yeah, I don't wanna sell. I mean, you can't sell.
You can't sell a hundred thousand dollars.
So you need to build trust, you know? But also would like to create less friction in the purchase, right? Because everything's custom. But somebody sees a work of art, they're like, okay, I want that, but it's in some other iteration. So they have to email,
they have to set up with a team to sell this audio. Well, yeah, but end. Like what are you gonna replace that with? Augmented reality? Like there's inherent friction in one off. I actually think you lean into your friction. So I would go the other way.
Inherently, if I was making one off. Anything online, you just have to reach out
to somebody else. Yeah, like I would have Breck. Like if it's a hundred thousand, you should have like a coffee with everybody. That should be good. But all the digital stuff should be leading to the coffee. See where I'm going? Instead of like making it feel, you know where everybody goes with this shit. Oh, we'll fucking do it online. Fuck that shit. Nobody wants, first of all,
nobody's buying a $10 item. How are some of these websites doing very well? Like First Dibs is doing very well. They're selling a lot of shit online at a significant price. How much? How much are the prices? All the way up to the millions.
Are they a platform? So they're taking consignment.
Yeah, basically sold products on there. Yeah, basically sold products on there. People come from all over the globe.
They buy and then. Because they have the attention. Same reason, eBay, like they spent the money, whatever they, I don't know the platform. Whatever they did to build their brand or customer acquisition or whatever, they became a marketplace and everybody goes there. So they're doing really well because first of all, they're doing really well because marketplaces when they hit,
they hit, it really, really. We're talking about going into the future trying to sell stuff. Nobody's really gonna wanna come to a retail store.
I don't believe that. I don't believe that. I really don't. I think that nobody's gonna wanna come there if there isn't added value to go there versus what they think they can do online, right? So I think people wanna do more shit than ever because they wanna show people they're doing shit. People go to wineries and hike and yoga retreat and fucking, why do you think all these weird museums are popping up? People just wanna take the photo in the blue fucking balls or in the sprinkles or, like we are in full PR mode of ourselves and we are now living our lives for the Instagram photo. People are literally planning their Saturdays, predicated on the picture that they can put on, so I actually think if you made your gallery, like if I had a gallery, I would just make one humongous thing that everybody wanted to just come and take a picture of. That's it, like put people in jail for like 24 hours. Like they come into your gallery and they get locked up. That would work, like you see where I'm going? People will use online because it's lack of friction for something that they don't value doing physically, but if you can give them something of value physically, they'll do that.
We'll keep bouncing, go ahead.
So essentially, real quick, I apologize. I think your website should literally be a complete and utter gateway drug to have a meal with you. You'll sell a lot of $100,000 things.
Just a better use of your time. We got so good at the music production side, especially my partner, that when we start putting out our sounds and free stuff, drum kits and stuff, like literally it's a sound that sounds like this. And then they put it together with something that's like that. That's like, you know? So essentially we sold all the different sound kits and stuff and we took advantage of Facebook groups because everybody in Facebook groups is spamming, check out my SoundCloud, it's like the weirdest like. Yeah, I know what it is. But for us, we're like, hey, how about you come get some free resources? So we grew really really fast, collected emails, nobody even knew what marketing was in our space. But what happened was is that we got to like kinda like that two million year point and we're profiting 75K a month now at this point cause we really fixed our profits too. Now I'm trying to figure out what are some levers and I have some ideas for voters and levers to get to like the eight figure point or to go at least past this point
cause we've been here for a bit.
Yep. Yeah, I know what it is.
So what are you selling, kits still? Yeah, sound kits, we've added on courses and stuff and we've tried to evolve the product. So the product's gone from 47 to now, the next one we're gonna try at 497 size we've ever tried. It seems like the spike in price has always been something that's raised our revenue. Just keep raising prices and making the product better. We've had this problem to our evergreen sales. We'll sit at a little bit under 100K, but then we'll launch. It'll be like a quarter million in four days. So, and then, you know, we do,
we sell a certain amount of packs and then we take it. So I think, you know, the model that you're running is kind of like that classic internet marketing model. You know, that like kind of really got into fame in the years of like 2000, 2015. I think the thing that you can layer is more content and more brand. That's how you grow. You're in sales. And what you need to layer it with is brand. Like, you know, so like I've watched so many people find the business model where they've got a price, they've got launches, they've got that whole model down, it's funneled, it's landing page optimization, it's CAC, it's LTV, it's all that shit. It's amazing, it's fine, it's really good. It, you know, gets people to a certain level, but then they're in the sales business, not in the brand business. Like a lot of people that fall in love with that model, don't think about their logo, don't think about their content, don't think about reinvesting in swag. Don't think about putting out a pod.
You know, they don't do brand. Like this is why I'm always like watch what I do, watch what I do, watch what I do. Like, and it's because so much of what I do is predicate on brand because that is the ultimate leverage. So I think putting out content like recording sessions, like using your, you know, your growth in the space and building relationships. I mean, you're in the best place on earth. Atlanta's the best place. Like, so just tapping into younger artists and doing collaborations and then running ads against their fan base. And there's a lot you could be doing, but a lot of it needs to now be less about math
and more about art. Gotcha, so what I was kind of thinking on that because I had been hearing you talk about that and trying to go into that space. So I was thinking about letting the team still do launches once every three months so we have that revenue. And then me and my partner are good at building out the new team to like go forward with that.
Is it good to still keep that alive?
I like that. Yep, yep, I like that. And honestly, like my biggest concern is that you're making 75,000 a month. Like you need to be pouring that back into business. Like I'm desperately curious what's happening with that 75K. Because if it's going into your pockets to like into your lifestyle, that's bad. And that's what every kid does. That's why people don't business, they'll build businesses.
That's why people have moments. And so I'm having a moment that kind of reminds me of what you talked about with AdWords being five cents a click and stuff like that. Right now, Facebook Messenger for us is, I mean it's getting 87% open right now. And I have a list of 30,000. I'm like, okay, I've been doing marketing for four years. I've never seen it. That's right. And it's one click, get their email too. That's right. It's not even. It's insanely good. Yeah, and I'm trying to, is it something that, so I'm a little worried about Facebook building this huge list and then like,
oh, we don't do that anymore.
Yep, that's right, that's right. It's insanely good.
Well, that's life.
Is it still good to like go ham at it and just.
You always squeeze the fuck out of an orange that's full.
That's what I'm saying. And then when it's empty, you go find a pair, which is harder to squeeze. And then you hope a grapefruit comes along. Right? Like that's, like email used to be 90% open rates for me. It's not anymore. Google AdWords with five cents a click. It's not anymore. Like I'm on emotion, like it's amazing. It's really, I'm really glad you asked the question. People do this all the time. Like people get so emotional about it going away, they don't take advantage of it when it's there.
Crush Myspace when it's Myspace. And then make sure you're good on Twitter and Facebook when that's happening. Like Instagram, do you know how many people are gonna be vanished when Instagram starts to slide? Everybody's pot committed. The whole fucking world right now is pot committed. I'm like sitting and laughing. I'm like, oh man, I like wanted to secretly like disappear. Cause I think people would die. Like people would be like, what? And I'd be like, cool, thank God we have all these
other things, other things. So what we try to do, I didn't think you were depending on this, we try to move it around.
Yeah, yeah. Is that gonna do like? It is. But when you have something like Facebook Messenger and kudos to you for like going in on that, squeeze the shit out of it. But you can also extract those people's cells
and emails and do, yeah, yeah. It's one quick, it's like, I've never seen anything like it. It's really good. And for us, like you can send audio.
So like Amy talking real quick or. It's really good. You need to invest in your business. You need to invest in your business. The profit margin you're making needs to go back into the business on things that don't bring you short term ROI. That's how you build something from two to 10. That, that, right? I took Wine Library from three to 60 and I was paying myself $76,000 a year. 67, 82, you know, discipline. Let me keep bouncing. Do you have a question? Well, that's very sweet.
I like it already. Can I open it in front of you? How was your trip? Yeah? Oh, this is good. I will absolutely wear this. Thank you, my friend. I will wear this this Sunday. Thank you so much. Yes.
Yes. He doesn't have his hat.
It's awesome. In here, oh, in here. Thank you. Go ahead. Yes.
Give me one second. 2007, all direct consumer. Yep, yep. And this year we started off on a solid track to hit eight figures and it just kind of died off. Why? That's what we're trying to figure out. Like all of our website conversions, like what got cut in half. The conversions got cut in half?
Yeah, we're averaging 10 and add the cart. Yep, yep. Why? The conversions got cut in half? Did you, and did you change the media you were spending?
Were you getting less qualified leads? See, we were spending a lot on Facebook at the time and we were spending 150, 200K a month on Facebook. Plus, we cut a lot of that Facebook back.
Why? Because the direct ROI was under like one to one point.
You cut it back before the 6.25
or that's what made you cut it back? No, we cut it back after that. So, we're getting good conversions on the website but the ROI ad that we were spending from our Facebook ads.
How many different pieces of content were you running? We were running, we'll see that in the thing too. We were running probably 20 different ad sets, multiple.
We had 60 SKUs, as I mentioned. Just to get everybody on the same page, for this white sneaker, for his sneaker, we had certain ads that were costing us $62 to get somebody to buy and some that were 12. The thing that nobody has really talked enough about and this is really where I'm going, is the sheer amount of content. Like, here's what everybody does, it works. So, I'm yelling five fucking years because it's so good that you could be a dope and it works, right? Like, you didn't know what the fuck you were doing day one and Facebook was returning and you're like, oh shit, Gary's probably right, right? Like, that's what was happening. Then it gets more competitive, shit changes. What everybody does then is, they take their 20 pieces of content, it gets 20 there and they got 400 cohorts and what have you and they're like, oh fuck, Facebook's not as good anymore, let's stop. Instead of making 800 more pieces of content. Facebook can be better today than three years ago if you're better at content and copy and matching it against your targeting, got it? That's it, that's the answer to your question.
And then there's Instagram swipe-ups and then there's Messenger. Like, and.
When we've been working on Messenger, like, doing stuff through it, we've mostly been using it to send people to, when my wife does a lie with education content and everything else and all of a sudden, when I happened to click on something, it was like, we had like, I don't know, 301 star things, like, why are you sending me messages through Messenger? And like, we had a warning from Facebook and all that stuff. And we have like, not maybe like 17,000 or whatever Messenger was, and we'd send out like a Messenger push
and we were getting 87 to 90% opens and click-throughs.
Mostly, and we have like. Well just real quick, I've never actually sold the media on Messenger.
We want to, we're sending them to a free live training
and stuff on whatever, how to. There was so many ways that people got into Messenger that they didn't know. That's why they were, that's what they were upset about.
I don't know the details.
But is there a way to kind of. Clean it up. You could send one message to get them to unsubscribe if they don't want it. Go up front, yeah. You're better off having 4,000 people give a fuck.
For sure, yeah. Okay, yeah, that makes sense and okay. And then the other one, more around culture. Yes. So as we're going, we're right around 35 to 40 people on our team. Yes. And since we make everything shit, we do all of our stuff.
Yep, of course.
Yes, yeah. I mean, I see some people, you know, we have, you know, on our team, I guess, what's the best way of creating a culture where people are like, watching your team and when I came up before,
I mean, just seeing how your team interacts and stuff. I think as as a small as 35 people, you should have dinner with every single employee and ask them what makes them happy in life because you have employees of those 35, you have some people that wanna make two bucks more an hour. Sure. You want somebody who wants more Saturdays off. You want somebody who wants to be a manager now. You want somebody, you have somebody who was happy yesterday but they fell in love and now they need more time at home, more money, title, work-life balance. Rick, you'll find out if you interview 35 people that there's something weird going on with Rick. You may have to fire Rick. You know, and so, when I hear about companies that have under 50 employees, I can't push them enough to do, you know,
the one-on-one hand-to-hand combat.
That's the answer. Yeah, we started doing like six months ago,
like how much did it go in? It's good, it's good. But the one-on-one is where you can start building, on the third meeting on the one-on-one, Susan will actually tell you about Rick because in the first one, they won't. You have to build a relationship. The smaller the company, the more often you can do it. You know? Mine are like, I text you at 11.30 at night when I'm flying back from something and be like, yo, and we're like, I'm not kidding, he'll tell you. Like, whenever I can get to it,
kind of like trying so hard, you know? Generally, don't go to a store. Yep. But I'm at a different point. Yep, yep. Just taking over, and in fact, some of the content I was really resonating with from you specifically was not just stepping in and taking control of any one thing.
So, I'm in the mode, I was talking to people.
Yep, yep, taste. Serve and taste, yep. Which, how many employees are there? Well, maybe just because we have a lot of front-and-house
people everywhere between the three. Yep, which you can't imagine how much equity that builds with the 30 to 40. And you've been around the whole time,
just like I was, but it's still gonna be amazing. Yeah, so, and to give you some context, I pay myself as little as possible. Yep.
I flip on the weekends. Yep, amazing. What do you flip? Like, literally, literally that garage, like, yard, like that stuff, what's the best, I'm sorry, I'm so obsessed. What's the best thing? It's the same thing in Oregon right now. I know, what's the best, what's the best thing
you found this last six months?
I found an antique dining set, and.
How much did you buy it for?
I bought it for just under $200. And what'd you sell it for? I love that shit so much, man. I like to live on this shit.
Keep going. Anyway, so something I deal with, we were hit super hard during the crash, 2007, 2008. Okay. We lost over 50% of our business. Yep. My mom was freaking out. Yeah, yep. She was getting divorced at the time, actually.
Yep, yep, freaking out. Yep, yep, yep. So, how the business is now structured with you taking over is everything. It's the entire conversation. Because the reality is, do you have the full autonomy or don't you? Do you to a point, but blank? These were the things that really helped it get better and better and better for me and my dad. At first, it was gray as shit. And then as things would spur up, especially when I had momentum, you don't even understand how it actually plays out yet because you'll taste it. When you start doing a couple things and it starts working, and then she tries to stop it, it's even worse than not starting at all. Once I started tasting momentum, anything that my dad would try to bring to defense felt completely inappropriate because I'm like, it's fucking working. And look, I don't want to paint a false picture.
My dad gave me outrageous levels of autonomy in hindsight. And really, unfortunately, the only issues we really had were some just hot button issues that he was, there was four things he was religious about, and I was religious the other way. I mean, the one I just keep laughing, he just did not want to sell product to our employees at cost. That was to him like, I don't know, he couldn't get over it. And I was like, so into it. Like I wanted to sell out a loss to our employees, you know, it was a real battle. And never actually probably, the reason I probably bring it up, it's the one battle that never really got settled in our careers. So I think a couple things you need to think about. One, having empathy for the fact that your mom spent so many years building this business, which I can even sense. I think you need to map what are her, so let me take a step back. Are this taking over phase,
is she looking for you to make all the decisions? Yeah, that's her goal. She really enjoys working with. Yes, yes. She just likes that touch point. Yes, everything else. Yeah, and you talk about being punched in the mouth. Yeah. So, it kind of weighs heavy on her. But coming from that, it's hard to spend money, especially on such a personal heavy business for her. Because it's, you know, there's things that have to happen
in her mind before she is okay with something. Everything else, yeah, yeah, yep, yep. And you're saying spending money as in like investing in the business,
whether in advertising or something like that? Or over hiring, you know, I already talked about this with your dad. I'm not that physical. Over hire, you were over staffed in some time
with the business. Does your mom have a sense of how much she wants, or you guys, like, to me what allowed me to over hire was me and my dad had a good sense of what we both wanted to make in salary. And then basically, after that, I could make no money at all. So, that's why I over hire. It's similar to what I'm doing here. You know, like, I'm not looking for this to be the money I need to take home, thus I'm pouring it in. So, I think the key that I'm trying to get into is what's real and what's ideology and emotion. What I was very good at in hindsight, I didn't even realize I was doing it as a kid, was I was eliminating subjectiveness and emotion because my dad lived on emotional reactions. And I got us over time to a lot of conversations that were, you know, after like crying and yelling, I got us into like, you know, it took me a while, but I just remember these feelings even right now as I'm sitting here, I'm like, okay, okay, how much money, like, do not subject me. Do not like, opinion of the month, flavor of the month. It rained yesterday or we had a snow out day and now you're overreacting to the fact that we did zero yesterday instead of 80,000 and now you're not letting me run a New York Times ad. Take me to the macro.
How much money do you need to make in salary? Cool, now get out of my way. I will deliver on that and if I don't, then let's have a combo. Basically is this sentence that we got to that really allowed us to explode, it's great. And did it go well? Good, great, yeah, I talked to my dad every day. Like we were like, we were like, right. We were in the store, so I would talk to him all the time and that was really what made it difficult because again, like somebody would steal a bottle of Jack Daniels and my dad would just emotionally explode and it would like tear out the next three days. You know, like all the energy and angst was like, we have to stop everything and figure out how not to get anybody to steal and I'm like, okay, cool. So we're gonna focus on $28 and like, cool, I'll do you a favor. We're probably getting $500 worth of stuff stolen a month and you want me to stop everything that's generating $4 million. That would literally be the kind of things.
Like there's many, many people that build businesses are completely predicated on emotion, ideology. Every fashion brand loses
because they care too much about subjective emotion. Something that I am doing more and more is actually hearing
meals for figures.
Of course, B to B, sure. But then when I try to go into kind of the jabbing type of content, that's a little harder for her to understand.
However, we've had those conversations, so. Over communication, which it sounds like you're leaning into and then when something's either ideology or emotion, grounding it in something so practical and gives you the framework, and then having the one thing that I did, there's something I'm very passionate about right now which is that fake environments, that kids are taking money from parents and building businesses and nobody's acknowledging it. And it got me down this interesting path where I realized, oh shit, the kids of this generation are taking money from parents and don't think they need to pay them back and the kids from our generation and definitely older than us, the game was, your parents would help you, but you had to pay them back. And something in that is just sticking with me that I haven't fully got to something, but it's kind of where I'm going right now, which is like, I said to my dad, I'm like, look, I'm willing to listen to everything you say if I'm unable to deliver on what I'm telling you I can deliver on if you give me this room. To me, there should be consequences if you're not good enough. And I think I'm seeing a lot of people want certain things from their parents in a family business, but aren't willing to deal with the ramifications because there's so much audacity coming from kids going into businesses. It sounds like you're not that, which excites the shit out of me, which makes me want you to lean in, but don't get too crazy. So you know, like I, in hindsight don't realize, I was like, fuck, you know, like I was delusional, but I like was so driven that I made it happen. But you know, I think that matters. Cool.
Dudes? Yeah, so I mean, I kind of already know
the answer to our problem. I know you do. So like what, maybe what subtlety underneath that might be a good example. Let me give you a good example. You should have an intern who DMs influencers until the account gets blocked on 40 different accounts
all day long, every day for life. Completely agree. And do that. Good.
But like, good. But like, but like, you heard the last part. You're gonna regret it. Do it. Does that make sense? Like if you don't have at least one person at minimum wage, who's just a scrappy kid, who, this kid fucking had a board on his head. No, but I mean, this is super important. This is what people understand. Three years ago, but three years ago, you got paid how much by that fucking mattress
or subway or whatever. 15 an hour and I was in like outfits.
Right. Literally goofy. Literally goofy outfits. But in him had the ability to go from zero to build $2 million revenue business. Tell me the truth. On a very serious note, on a true question. Do you have one person who fully spends 10 hours a day
DMing until he's blocked or she's blocked on 13 accounts? There's probably one person that does that like four hours a day.
Great, great. Every day. How big is your business in revenue? You should have three full-time people at minimum wage doing it. Yeah. It's the influencer version of you're gonna be upset that Facebook went away. What if they changed the DM rules? Let me rephrase.
What happens when they change the DM rules? Oh, I know. I mean, I've been thinking about that every day. I love the DM. I basically, every full-time somebody follows us, do the bot thing and send them coupons and like people give positive response because I'll go back in and then engage so it doesn't just seem like a bot. No one has engaged that conversation.
I don't know if it goes to other. But, you know what it is? How do they see it if it goes to other? How do they see that? How do they see those? People check their other.
People check their other. People check their other. Cool. Not everybody fucking does anything.
It's just math.
Yeah, you're right. You have to send out more and more and more.
The whole game is scaling the unscalable.
Like, this is what you get. Everybody's looking in this tech world to find the scalable thing. The magic's in the unscalable part. We're building part of like our wine business that if you buy the club, there's a SMS sommelier service that you get. Which is like, literally like you go to a nice, you know, restaurant in Cleveland and take a picture and be like, what wine should I drink? And we're, me included at first, me. We're gonna tell you. I'm gonna look at the fucking picture and be like, the late harvest Zinfandel with your dessert would be great. Me. I scale the unscalable. Guys, every single piece of written word on Twitter and Instagram is me. If I've ever DM'd you, if I've ever replied, if I've ever harden yours, that's me.
I scale the unscalable. I'm as busy as they get.
So I'm definitely not crying tears for anybody else. Definitely, and then, you know, from a B to B side, our main business has been selling the food to grocery stores, but now we're in this position where we have a semi-established brand name, semi-trusted name in our space. Right. And so CBD is obviously becoming a very good thing. Becoming a billion dollar industry could happen. So now everybody's trying to figure out like, hey, how do I incorporate CBD into my product? You know, popcorn or a lemonade. And so we've got into that position where everybody's asking us. And so we've kind of reversed it because what we do is, you know, we source from Native American farmers. It's very good practices. The genetics are very good. So we've kind of built this little niche.
And now we're leveraging that niche on other brands. We have some of the largest CPG companies in the world in salty snacks and ready to drink beverages, saying, hey, we want to buy your CBD because it's a semi-trusted, you know, no name in the category. Love it. Put your logo on the back of the packaging,
try to build the intel of the... Right. Oh, yeah. Love it.
Couldn't believe in it more. Yeah, we're trying to get them to put a little excerpt,
like, hey, we trust and we go happy. I would literally, literally pay for those brands
to put my logo on it, let alone get paid. Right, that's what we've been saying. I mean, some of our investors are like, are they gonna pay you? Are you kidding me? Like, no, we want to pay them.
Couldn't agree more.
All we have to do is give them 10% discount, seriously. It's absurd.
You should spend all your time on energy on it. Yep, perfect. Yeah, we were, to your point, we're trying to hire one to two full-time people to literally just focus on that.
You need, who owns the business? I thought it was. You need to make as little money as possible
for the next 36 months. We... Good. We need to start taking, we've been doing this for six years,
we've been starting taking a salary till last year. Give it back. Moments in time. Yeah. Like, you know, obviously, like, I don't know your life, you may have, I don't know, but fucking as little, by the way, everybody, that's the advice. That's how you build a business. That's how you build a business. You gotta feed your business, not buy a new pair of Supremes. That's just what everybody does. And, you know, Supreme, or a house, or, you know, the great mistake of my career was buying an apartment six months before I could have invested in Uber and doubled down on Facebook. Like, it made me less liquid. Lost a lot of money.
Needed, you know, I was grown, I just had a child, like, it's not terrible, but like, I'm starting to wonder if I'm gonna recommend one day somebody, people, I actually am starting to get weird about ever owning a house. I think nobody should own a house. I'm starting to really believe that nobody should own a home until they're 40. Nope. I don't think anybody should spend money. If they have actual business ambition, if they wanna build a business, for real, for real, not, I wanna create a business to give me money to, then you should extract your money. Like, there's a lot of people that build businesses to get a wave runner, to buy an RV, to like, stay at the Ritz Carlton, and that's fine. That's, you're not building a business, you're trying to create a machine to kick you cash. The problem with that is it always becomes vulnerable in the end, and then dies, and then that's why people go backwards. So funny, this kid grabbed me at the airport. Were you with me? Yeah, second time telling it, I'm really fascinated by it.
This kid runs up to me, he's like, Gary V, you know, like, I'm like, I don't know, let's take a selfie. He's like, God, I really talked to you, you know, he goes, I'm so, this is like, it was really sweet. It was a nice, I just loved his vibe. I was like, this is so meant to be that we met. He's like, I'm from Ontario. I just came down here, I'm flying back home. I just got super ripped off. I'm like, what do you mean? He goes, I literally had all my bar mitzvah money and what my grandma left me, and I lost it all. Somebody just scammed all of it from me. I'm like, how much? He's like, 60,000 bucks.
So it's really interesting what happened in that moment. I looked him dead in the face and I said, that's what happens when you try to make a quick dollar. And he goes, how'd you know? And I'm like, you can't get scammed of $60,000 unless you're trying to make a quick buck. You just can't. You bought into some bullshit because you thought 60 was gonna be 600,000 in a week. And that always, always loses. That's the most extreme version, but where I get worried, and I know nothing about you, where I get worried about kids making some money early on is the less extreme version is you're taking money off the table and you're just living that lifestyle. When for 50% of those kids, if they poured it back in, they could really live that lifestyle forever. If they just ate shit for six more years
and built something for real, you know? Yes. Sorry, I just have one more question. So I know you've said focus on the Instagram DMs and as you know, we can't do the traditional advertising. That's right.
Is that really the main? Yes, that's right. I think podcast pre-roll, I think podcast pre-roll is really good. I would hit up email every single podcast like that you think maps and any shit, you know, it's be creative. I'm obsessed with influencers for you guys and then fully having your own podcast and your own vlog, being a media company.
Yep, that's where you're at now. Cool, just wanted to make sure.
Yep, yep. For us, LinkedIn video content has been a game changer. That's awesome. Yeah, because, you know,
specifically the audience is grocery buyers. That's awesome. And look, you can, I think there's a way for you to build a personal brand about being an entrepreneur and what you've learned and just letting that halo affect your business. There's plenty of people that want to, I mean, what are you guys doing here, right? Like you can halo it to your actual business. You know, you gotta be very clever, but like if you're making more about you and not the business, like no reference to even the business, people will Google. You put out a good video of like how you ate shit before six years and like it does well, people find out who you are. They'll go to Google, they'll figure out what company you work for. So there's ways to run media as, you know,
as a, you see where I'm going? Yeah, no, that's kind of what we're trying to Do. Yeah.
You know, the pay-taking story,
Do. Yeah. The pay-taking story, just be seen for free and you know, we're slowly starting to get paid for it.
I've heard of the concept. I've heard of the concept.
So just to piggyback off the build of the business, I mean, I've been at it for 18 years now, so one taco at a time, opened up like 2000, and then just kind of grew it from there, 13 shops in New Jersey. Just took it on the road, went down to Florida,
opened up down. So cliche Jersey. Yeah, right. Jersey, Florida.
Fucking makes me so happy. So I dip my toes into franchising like 12 years ago. Okay. I got one franchisee. And then I was just kind of pulled back on that. I just want to kind of build the company that way. But now I'm looking at like the next 18 years, you know, and like, how do I say relevant? How do I scale growth?
What do you want to happen?
I just want to take the brand to its potential.
The game of it.
The game of it. I mean. It looks pretty good. Yeah, so then I think franchisee at this point, you being this grounded and mature is a good debate. It's a good debate if you want the game of it. And to me, when I hear the game of it after somebody who's anybody who's been in business for 18 years is a successful entrepreneur, you know, like the amount of people who like make a lot and then lose it like, like being a entrepreneur, saying you're an entrepreneur versus being a successful one is completely predicated on life cycle. To me, one man's point of view the game of it gets into the vanity of it. I watched my dad do it. I've watched, with my fame or local fame or internet fame, it's been interesting to see my dad go from caring less about money and caring more about the game. Actually, that's actually not fair. My dad always cared more about the power and influence in his industry than being bigger than other stores. It was like being the king of big fish in a small pond was his passion.
The ultimate game of it is becoming fucking McDonald's.
I struggle with just the customer though. I'm only as good as the last taco and if I have a franchisee
that's serving a bad product, that's all I'm made. Here's the good news, you're an operator. You don't have fucking 14 stores and not being an operator. You just change your agenda of operation to making sure that Nick Dio, when he opens up his shop in Little Lake Harbor or Delaware or the fuck, fucking stays on point. Your operations change. It's like becoming a manager, right? You know this, you were the guy fucking serving with tacos in store one. You don't do that as much. You managed over time, right? Well, now you're just managing something else. You could have a six month fucking course to get through to, you could spend a year picking franchisees. Franchisees fail because they want the money.
It's your baby and the way you built it, I already know that you, I think franchisees is the right conversation for you. I'll tell you why. I just think you're gonna be outrageously thoughtful with your first 10. How many employees do you have that have worked for you for longer than five years? Can I give you a huge piece of advice? Any way that you can put some of them on, you can't imagine what that can do for you. And I don't know what you've spent your money on, how successful you've been. Even if you can afford to put one guy or gal up or you can go to characters like me, successful Jersey businessmen and be like, yo, I'm making shit up, this is just being creative. I'm starting a sponsorship program for my franchisee. If you actually came and we have had some lightweight interact on social and things like that, if you came to me and said, yo, weird, but you just seem like, you know, I've heard you're this kind of guy, would you go into business 50-50 with an employee of mine who has no money but has been with me for six years and you could own 50% but you have to put up all the money, I gotta tell you, I'd probably do one. It just feels, it's a version of business charity. We need to have new things.
Like, why do I just have business? And then sometimes I just write big checks on things that I'm emotional about. How many people do you think that work for you right now? You could elevate and actually own their own version of a store. For real, for real. You need to do it, brother. That's what you should do. Because that shit will work and you know it. It's why I love all these little fuckers. It's context. You can show me somebody who's better on paper but we know each other, right? You can show you somebody who's run 13 successful Burger Kings but you know exactly who Susan is and then you don't have to worry about the taco not being good.
You both win.
I know, I know.
It'll work. The best thing that, the reason I'm a good businessman is because I play outside the framework. That's what being a bad student is so comping to being good entrepreneurs. It was easy for me to come up, I've never thought of that concept. But it was so easy for me after I even listened to six seconds because I got enough context to ideate on an idea that is specific. That's why this stuff has been so fun for me. Because I can put out content that's evergreen all day long but it's in the nuances. It's so, I'm so, I want you to dig into the thing that's not scalable, you know? Because you're not gonna be able to change the inherent nature of a one-off product. There's no scalability in a one-off. What's scalable is you can meet seven people a day for a coffee and if your content and web does that, you're probably, you know, you're gonna close two. You get them to dinner, well guess what?
You take them to dinner, you'll close even more. Is it relevant?
You're like 20 years out, fast-casual. Food is always gonna be okay. You know, QSR and fast-casual, whatever the trend of the moment is, make a good fucking taco
for the right price, you'll be all right.
Especially, especially, you know, yeah. I think that's right. And by the way, Acai may, like a lot of people have said that about things that did stick, right? And other things didn't, right, to that point. But if you just look at the basic Latino, you know, influence on America, your grandkids are gonna be fine on that specific food. Tacos are gonna be just fine. And Acai may become the new taco thing,
or may not, but you're exactly right. I have a question about, so, you know, building a brand with content stuff, what do you think about using, like, so I've been doing this thing, where I'm just getting, I'm hitting up like hundreds of YouTubers, getting them to use my stuff, I'm like, dude, just do whatever you do, just use our stuff while you're doing it, and we can get it away for free. Of course, product placement. Yeah, so what do you think about using like all of them
to then run ads from their Facebook? Of course, product placement, yes. To put in the audience to work, of course. Yes, but you should probably be up front with them. Because your one blog post, the way of like, you fucking used me, like somebody did that with me, that came to four D's, and that was not a good situation for that person. If you're, remember intent? Yo, what's great about why that's worked? Yo, dog, I'll give you something and you just use it. I want that exposure, you want the shit for free. Bet, I then run ads against fans and fans are hitting me up and saying, yo, did you, like what?
Then the person feels like you got them. I actually think they like it though, because they get thousands of dollars
pumped into their content. So now going, I don't disagree with you, but 50% of them will like it.
So you say it up front and you're in a much better place. And you think it's a vulnerability relying on like a mass contest strategy
where a lot of people doing it- No, no, no, I do not. It worked out for Nike.
Because me and my partner, we're not in the music like doing that every single day now, we're at the points where we gonna,
I got it, I got it, I got it, I got it. Of course I think you're fine with that, I think you're fine with that. I think you're siphoning attention
and then you become the thing. Thank you so much for listening to that entire episode. We want to remind you to give Gary feedback. So make sure you tweet him at Gary Vee. But if you're listening on Spotify, you can drop your comments, questions, and anything in between in the Spotify Q&A section down below. See you in the next episode.