VaynerX Presents: Marketing for the Now - TikTok Edition!

January 24, 2022

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Today's episode is the newest installment of Marketing For The Now... but there's a catch. Its fully dedicated to TikTok! During this two-hour show, a crazy talented roster of brand marketers and creators are set to join us for this and share their answer to the question, "What's your unlock for TikTok?"

Enjoy! Let me know what you thought.

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This is the Gary vee audio experience. Gary.

Hi, hi,

it's Ticktock thursday.

I am super excited for this one. This I think will bring a lot of value to a lot of people. Obviously I've been on this games since it was called musically here in the United States. And so it'll be very exciting to see what uh, what these incredible leaders in marketing have to say. And it's great to see everybody, Surely will. Ryan terry, zen, rasta morrigan here on linkedin, Liz on linkedin. Simon on Youtube. Thank you for joining us at marketing for turnout. Andrea how was your, how was your New Year's? How's your first

Month of 2022? How are you? It's been, it's been awesome. I feel really lucky. My, my family is healthy. Um, and we're launching things like crazy as you know, Gary. So it's uh, it's been, it's been a great ride. Yeah, let's get started here. Right up here. We're gonna go deep today, we've got a two hour session. We're gonna kick things off with chris Brandt. We're bringing him back again.

Chris is chief Marketing officer of Tiktok, doing some really cool at Tiktok, Chief Marketing Officer at Chipotle, doing some great stuff on Tiktok. We're so happy to have you back chris,

oh, thanks for having me back. I don't know whether that's, I did a bad job the first time. And so I'm getting a redo or no, no, no, no self deprecation here from good border chris chris get right into it. Um, for everybody listening because we've only got seven minutes here. So let's pack it in for everybody listening. How how is Chipotle such an at, under your helm has been so good at contemporary marketing truly one of the few brands that I watched from a farm like that crew over there gets it. Um, have you been thinking about it and what's kind of like on your mind? Yeah, well, thank you for saying that. I think that, um, you know, all credit to the team, we've really assembled an amazing team. And I think that, you know, we, we set out in 2018 when most of us started at chipotle to be more visible, more relevant and more loved and a big part of that was being in social and uh, you know, and I think that we just wanted to make sure we were doing the right things, um, and the right way and wherever we appear. And I think that you need to appear, You know, people call it on the channel, we used to call it 360° marketing, whatever, wherever you need, whatever you are, you have to appear there the right way. And I think that that's the big part, your creative can't be the same on Snapchat is on Tiktok as it is on TV as it is anywhere else.

And the team just does a fabulous job of figuring out the other about figuring out where the intersection of culture and Chipotle lives Because we can't jump on every trend. We shouldn't jump on every trend. Some of them don't fit us. But in the case of Tiktok, I mean, we jumped on that. We, we were talking about Tiktok as a place that our consumers are back at the end of 2018. But we didn't have a good idea to go on Tiktok in a really and real quick and real quick. I'm starting to erupt. I'm vibing with all this. This is an insight for a lot of marketers watch this show. So I want to help them and I actually want to get the insight here. Ideas are everything and then the execution is everything right? A brain And I couldn't agree with you more.

Your constituents are were on there from day one. And again, I think the accolades I gave you is because I do think you're moving faster and more native Than a Lot of Your Contemporaries and Fortune 5000 Marketing World. But one thing you just said did catch my attention, does it run through your mind or the brand's team's mind, the teammates, the agency partners that you don't necessarily, when a platform is that meaningful, need a core idea, like a campaign. You just need to actually be in the game that, you know, was there ever a debate of like, okay, yeah, we don't have our idea yet. But let's actually make content from having a day to day pulse versus a core idea or did you or do you normally or always or sometimes feel no, no, I want to go in with an idea and then we'll start figuring out the day to day after because I think it's an interesting nuance that I'm very curious what your take on that is. I think there's some of both. The one thing we don't want to be is lame. When we first go on a platform though, we don't want to go in, we don't want to go in with something that doesn't feel maybe, but you, but you agree? You agree? I think because I'm watching from afar again, you agree that doing a challenge or doing something that's campaign oriented, you could equally not be lamed by just doing an actual good Tiktok right out the gate that you guys know what the is going on. And so, but I think that when you're looking to make a bigger splash, we, for example, we, we were talking to them at the end of 2018, we didn't do anything until the beginning of 2019 because we didn't feel like we wanted to do a Tiktok challenge brands weren't doing them at the time and we felt like what is our Tiktok challenge that will really make a splash, but we didn't know. So we didn't do anything and we were waiting and waiting and then we then we had, we had one of our actually one of our team members in the restaurant had this cool way he could flip the lid up onto a bowl and we posted it on instagram first and I got a million views like that were like, hey, this could be it.

So, um, we got an influencer who love Chipotle was absolutely in love with people. I think that's the other part is used, influencers who are absolutely in love with your brand, even if they're not the biggest influencer because you'll get content that just feels so much more organic and genuine. And I think that, that we launched that and we got, you know, 250 million views, which was a lot of views, you know, back in 2019 we got that right away and so we were off to the races, but I think whether it's Tiktok or whether it's Snapchat or instagram or whatever, I think you want to take a step back to and understand what that platform is about and for the consumer and so instagram is about inspiration. Tiktok happens to be about mood lifting and awareness generator. It's almost like Tv for gen z, so kind of behave like that, but have content that looks like it's created by, it looks like it's UGC because if you don't, you just, You know, you're finished, you're gonna, you're gonna be terrible. You're gonna be the old guy at a hot club. Exactly, right. 100 chris have you, you know, you're so busy is there? And I know we're talking Tiktok, but I'm gonna get value out of you. Is there any social network that you actually consume as a human being without a marketing mind lens on or you just kind of too busy and there's too much going on. I watch a lot of Tiktok as a consumer to be honest, I think because, because the interest graph, right? Because you're seeing things, that algorithm is really good.

Uh, mine looks very different from my wife, but the number, the, the, the creativity and the humor that people have Amazes me on Tiktok and the talent. And so I, that's, that's the one it is and it is a black hole you can get on there and all of a sudden 20 minutes have gone by and you're like, whoa, what just happened? But I've, you know, I've picked up, picked up a lot of golf tips. Um, but I've also just, it's, it's funny, it's funny, I invested in, so I talked a lot about like I invested in facebook and twitter and I always mentioned that I invested in tumblr at the time and I remember the reason I invested in tumblr In 2008 or nine or 7, um, was because they were building a social, they were building an interest graph social network, not a social graph. Remember being interested in that, that people were following, not like people, but like the kind of art they liked and things of that nature and I was very fascinated and always felt that the interest graph, that's why I fell in love with early facebook, you know, algorithm because fan pages could go viral. That kind of changed over time and I think Tiktok has really grabbed onto that. Yeah, I agree. And then, and I think that the outlet for creativity is, is amazing chris, thanks for having, thanks for having me. I appreciate it by the way, real quick Andrew. I'm sorry, uh, dan Maso Gary V king of interrupting, wow, I apologize, it's only 10 minutes with these incredible individuals and I feel like when the essence of what they're trying to say is accomplished to many of you. I try to get one or two more nuggets out of you. It is not because I'm trying to be rude, I'm excited and I want to squeeze as much in and I'm making a subjective call on the fly that the point was made and I'm hoping that, uh, that, uh, lands

Used the next one. Next up, we welcome Kalen thornton, he's the CMO of Gatorade, he joined in 2021 after 10 years of doing transformational things at Nike and Jordan brand and his first sport gymnastics welcome Kalen,

I might be, I might be, uh, might be a little bit more careful with my interrupting with you, my man, you are a professional football player and a beast. I'm also, I'm also incredibly fond of you. It's been nice getting to know you. This is obviously one of the iconic brands. Obviously, so many uh, that are on Tiktok touched this brand. Love this brand, interact this brand. So let's this, I actually don't know. So let's go there. What is, uh, what is the journey Ben Katie for Gatorade? You know, obviously you're in this realm fairly recently. So there was things obviously happening before you. Now you're here.

What, what's the kind of quote unquote 411? No, absolutely. One echo the sentiment been a pleasure to get to know you and honor to be here. Some of such an illustrious panel of speakers for me, you're right. I got, I joined last March. Um, I'm coming up on a year and I'm still learning a ton, I will qualify that. But really for, for Gatorade, we've talked a lot about over the past year. Just This notion such an historic brand, 50 years of heritage backed by science, uh, a massive sports fuel company. But we need to shift more to fueling sport culture has been the conversation. And so getting into the topic today, when you think about a opportunity like Tiktok and what we leaned into it is that intersection of sports and culture. It is that intersection of creativity that there's, there's just a ton of opportunity for us to take all that D. N.

A. And heritage and the athletes we work with and the conversation um that we'd like to have and bring that into the language and experience that this next generation is seeking. So that's really the future. That's kind of what we're trying. That's what we're building towards. What what excites you about Tiktok. I love the notion you were alluding to it in the last conversation with chris going from the social graph to interest graph is a big part of it. Um, and as especially critical for us as we start to think about different sports and different ways in which consumers, athletes define themselves as defined themselves as an athlete or the sport. So we need to learn more about some of the emerging sports. So that's one piece. The other piece that's really, really exciting for me is this notion of rather than having this two way conversation that social uh, introduce now we're in a co creation mode. So now we can actually unlock and unleash some of our most loyal consumers and athletes and fans to extend themselves and really drive another voice for the brand that quite honestly we ourselves can't do on our own.

So being in being in a partnership with these creators, really understanding what are the types of conversations and creative they want to see from us and spaces we want to play in is also the unlocked for us and what's super exciting. Yeah, how would you grade the brand on Tiktok right now. You know, obviously it's a that's a tough question, grading your own homework, You have partners and internal people, but I think it's important for people to see like how leaders analyze their stuff. Like at the time of the marketing helm for this iconic brand, you're feeling good where you're at, you know, you're, you're, you are a professional athlete. You were like, I'm sure you, you have that means there's competitiveness, there's, there's holding yourself to a standard. Like, do you guys think you're, you're killing it? Do you, are you, are you worried? Do you think you're, you're focused on some macro work? So you're just not getting to it given, you know how big brands sometimes, you know, I mean, you've got to know me, I think big brands under, I think big brands underestimate the emerging and over fantasize of the past. Like what, how do you grade Gatorade on, on the talk right now? No, it's a great question. I think about it and I'll go back to the athlete analogy as an athlete.

One thing that we're always doing is working on our craft and you're at different stages um, of your development in your training at the different stages in life and, and for for us as a brand Gatorade's very much so. We're still, we're at the beginning stages. We just picked up the weights, we're just running our first few sprints out on the field. Um, and so we're trying to establish our foundation and really learn from the platform as we build and and potentially get to a place where we are setting the standard across, not only our space but across the industry. So I'd say very much so we're at the beginning, I wouldn't give us a grade because I think we're doing amazing at what our training goals are for today. So our training goals hard for today, become more familiar with the platform, understand the tools and we've learned, we've learned a ton, a lot of the conversation that we're just having and how to show up an authentic way, how to make sure that we are leveraging the creative economy and creative lens. Are you thinking a lot about that? Like, Hey, look at that dope video that got four million views with that kid that used gatorade for it. Should we team up with with kid over there? Is that some of the stuff going through your head? Absolutely. That.

And even like one of the things that you actually actually, I'm sorry to interrupt everyone. Uh, do you recommend for a lot of people listening here who are creators that love brands to just naturally do it because I know a lot of creators tell me I love this brand, but I'm gonna make them pay. They're gonna, if they're gonna get something for me, I'm gonna wait to get paid. I'm like, no, no, make something awesome with that kit kat bar and then then kick out will come back and come like, do you think it's actually a smart strategic move for some people here that are wildly creative to just integrate big brands into their content with the knowledge that if a couple of them hit, they're gonna be getting a phone call from that brand and saying, you know, let's dance. Yeah, I mean first and foremost, even back to what chris was saying, whether you're on the brand side or the creator side, do what is most authentic to you and what you're passionate about. So if you love Gatorade, then the question around whether or not you should get paid almost shouldn't even be a question is if you represent, cause we're looking for it and ultimately at least in our case we're going to take care of it. And that was really what was at the heart of what was successful for us in Tiktok and our social squad. Um, we, we reached out to the community and basically asked who wanted to start this relationship with the brand, who felt like they could speak to the authentically. And, and, and I think it's an exact example of what you're saying, where it wasn't as much around transaction, it was setting up a relationship on how we wanted to partner with these creators, uh in order to in order to speak authentically on the, on the platform? Quick little left turn, what's your recommendation for people that are looking to pivot in their career, right? Because you surely did that um or the youngsters here who want to be, I mean there's a lot of people freaking out about your, about your hoodie, write it, you know, Gatorade is a super popular brand. You're the CMO the chief marketing officer.

What about two minutes of advice for the kids or the 45 year old kids? And what I mean by that in a good way is that youthful energy of like I can still change my, you know, I've been a lawyer but I'm gonna be the CMO Gatorade one day. What's a good way to in your opinion, get into the marketing field and get to the highest levels like you have um one I'm incredibly humbled if you would have told my younger self that I would be in this position today to be CMO of Gatorade to have an amazing career at Nike and Jordan and I'll do that after playing in a couple of years professionally for the cowboys, I would not have believed you have been like I was trying to keep the cowboys part out because I know it's salty in Dallas right now, it is salty out there, you know, I repped strong, you know, uh but to answer your question like honestly the best advice I ever got was Chase the learning Chase the experience, like figure out what it is that you that you want to have in terms of your own development and, and don't worry about the role of the title or, or the job like that that will come if you have enough intellectual curiosity. And I think as I've gotten older, one of the things that's, that's similar advice and a lot of mentors give, but I think the other thing that I've, I appreciate now, it's like, what do you actually also have to unlearn, especially when you're getting into these new spaces where um, it might challenge the status quo of what you may have picked up along the way and such a fine balance. Um, and it also requires you to be completely self aware, understand where you might have your own biases or philosophical philosophical differences. But I think that notion of being curious and electric before I let you speak out, biggest biggest thing you've learned in the last call it, months. that changed your perspective on a belief you had about marketing. Anything. I think, I don't know if it changed my perspective on market because I always knew change was a part of marketing. You always have to be up to speed. I don't think I quite fully appreciated how marketing and brands are going to fundamentally shift business driver is moving forward until I started understanding where the intersection of a company like gatorade and what we do also well with supply chain is now meeting up with this digital frontier and so we're talking a lot about marketing through the lens of Tiktok today, but I think you're gonna see a lot more platforms. I know you're an expert in all things metaverse and N.

F G. S. I think that is fundamentally going to change the way we even define ourselves, that marketers movement marketing as a profit center. Great to see you, my friend. You too. Thank you for having me.

Thank you, Caitlin Gary. Next, we're gonna welcome Jeremy paid our, he's the chief brand officer at Jazz wears, you know, squish mellows, Pokemon. It's, it's pretty crazy. All the things that I've been learning from Jeremy, what I didn't know is that Jeremy sold his company wicked cool toys and I'm hoping you're going to get into that a little bit. Um, he is now recognized as one of the biggest faces in the business of play. He's an entrepreneur, toy industry executive and a badass collector, among many things, Jeremy,

thank you so much, Jeremy. I mean, look, you know this when anybody who has a backdrop that is similar to the one I have in my office is always gonna be somebody I love. It's been a fun interacting with you through the years brother Nice to finally do something together. Um why don't you tell everybody a little bit about Jazz wears first because I think some may not know it as much, they know the brands that are associated, but when we talk about that for two seconds and then we'll go into the Tiktok question. Yeah, well first of all, thank you for having me today, I feel like I'm representing the toy industry. So Jazz wears is the sixth largest toy company and we have been blowing up. Jazz was about 25 years old this year founded by a guy named Judd Sabarsky who's a genius in our space and through acquisition, as she mentioned, wicked cool toys and a lot of organic growth focusing on brands like global uh partner for Pokemon roadblocks, Fortnite, we own swish mellows, uh my goodness, Coco melon, which is a brand that we found a few years ago when we focused on the social space. I mean Jazz wears has competed by focusing on areas that other people are not participating and frankly speaking everything in the toy industry is very much like fashion, it's trend based. So we constantly are looking at change. We're constantly looking at pivoting to make sure that we capture what's the latest opportunities in this space and look even in your world. I mean the the N. F.

T. Universe is part of that. We've been at the very forefront of that on the individual level as collectors, but also trying to identify how to extend that as a larger business opportunity, especially in the world where things are so decentralized and individual holders of N. F. T. S. Can compete with the larger brand organization. So we are dealing with all of that right now. But the biggest, I would say the thing that jazz wears does better than anyone else is that we don't just look for brands. We participate, we invest, we individually go after opportunities and just pour ourselves into it. I love it. Talk to me about Tiktok considering that you guys and gals are in the business of trends.

Uh and just obviously me spending a lot of time in that universe. You no one even for squished melon, which has been just such a monster hit. I don't think people, you know anybody that knows in the comments, if you know what's going on with squish, leave it So everybody else can see what's going on. Because if you're in it, you know, um, was Tiktok a big factor in that explosion? Was it not? Um what are you seeing in Tiktok? Well, you know, collecting and community go hand in hand and it's, it's just like you cannot break that bond if you don't have a community, you don't have a collection. It's not just about secondary market value. It's about who you have shared experiences with. And

squish mellows is quite

possibly one of the greatest examples of collecting by community. Um, squish melons originally was launched in 2017. It was a company called Kelly. Toy Guy named Jonathan Kelly. And when it was launched it was literally another one of these just toy brands that was going to try it at Walgreens to see what happened. But the special huggable phenomenally identifiable character, um, which was the original squish squad, squish mellows character of eight blew out within 24 hours with no marketing. And and immediately what was identified was, you know what, this is exactly the type of brand that if we seed it with enough youtubers and enough at the time, youtube instagrammers That something might happen and it absolutely did sent it out to about 100 youtubers sent out the entire squad. And then what happened was in 2018, 19, there was a migration from the investment in Facebook and Instagram into Tiktok by the influencers themselves identifying that that was going to be the next big medium And we've had over four billion organic integrations with Tiktok. So what we've learned is, it's been, it's been as much about learning when not to spend money on marketing. Yes. Like the community drive as it has to been to spend money on marketing, which is spending, look spending on marketing is always right when you spend good money when, when something's happening organically there's nothing better. There's nothing better than when you make a hoodie and four famous people just find it in a shop.

You haven't spent a dollar on anything. You didn't have enough money to give samples to influencers and they love because they love it and they wear it and they post on instagram and your business takes off like, like nothing, there is not a, you could spend the best penny. I mean I've been very proud of how good I am at spending money on marketing cause I'm always at the thing when it's underpriced. The best penny I ever spent on marketing for myself, for my dad is not better than organic. Yes, absolutely.

And and that has

been again, our lesson is that if we support the communities and we, and we love, we love the community, we integrate ourselves to the communities that they drive the messaging

and, and

so while we are harnessing the power of that, we're not directing it, we're allowing and, and making sure that we clearly communicate that this is, you know, this is theirs and we're simply fostering and, and ebbing and flowing with that and frankly speaking, you know the way you run your business and looking at things like the friends, it's a very similar philosophy. What did you, when did you get Tiktok personally? Just on your own journey, you're busy, you got a lot going on like when did it? Really? And what was it that made you go, okay? You know, this is not a, this isn't a 13 year old, just dancing, There's something going on here. Yeah, I, I think, I think charli, d'Amelio dancing was the original, what Tiktok is big, She's got 20 million followers now, 50 now, 100 and but you start flipping and the algorithm kind of figures you out and it says, hey, maybe you don't want to see dancing kids, Maybe what you're interested in is cooking and what you're interested in is collectibles and what you're interested in. And it figures you out. It is one of the smartest engines I've ever seen. It's brilliant because it, it knows you, it knows your interests and it delivers it to you. And it's just a day after, day after day that that information is simple, very simple. So for for me, what I recognized as a marketer is that it is the best dollar spent because if the algorithm is that smart and it knows the consumer that well that it's able to extend mentally, what's the next thing they may be interested in participating in.

And if it's collectibles goodness, we know how to deliver those. Um, what was the first collectible just for fun? Now, a couple of minutes left, first collectible that you entered your life. So my brother is 13 years older than me and I'm 11 years older than AJ. And, and so many of the questions that I've heard AJ asked about sports or collecting or business always start with. Well my brother Gary is 11 years older than me. So that was a really funny moment for me. Yeah, Well I've had that same, I went to kindergarten the same day he went to college, but he made an indelible mark on my life and when I was three years old he took me to a flea market and uh he bought me a penny That was 97 years old and we communicated about when I was six years old, this was gonna be 100 years old and I will tell you that my entire life was shaped on that moment in terms of collecting like I am a collector for life. Um I and it's not just about the item, it's, it's what goes the story, the story, it's always the story I was trying to make, I was doing props and drops where I was talking about why I thought 2014 name, coin Bitcoin and very early ethereum 17 18 19 projects How they were going to play out differently in 50 years than all the projects that are dropping now and I in real time was doing the show and went on ebay and pulled up that somebody sold yesterday a Valentine's day card. Just a Valentine's day card from 1907 for $15 for $15. And the point I was trying to make is humans will always collect and there will always always always, even if there's not a ton of demand, if you go old enough it's going to just play out as meaning something and that the fact that this whole world is coming and it will evolve and it'll be you know I talk a lot about thinking a lot of things will collapse but there's so much going on in N. F.

T. S. That are similar to beanie babies. People are only buying for the sake of this flip means they're not falling in love with the characters, right? The community parts, not there. The commerce part is so, you know, one of the reasons I think 90 to 99% are gonna fail is they have the beanie baby thing. They can be hot for 34 months or a year even. But

and but nonetheless,

um I totally understand the shaping of collectibility and the fun grownups, Having fun grownups, having fun with this stuff, collecting is the trend of the last five years that people are missing it. That there's a joy factor, a relationship factor of collecting cards. I think VHS tapes, why I used to watch movies like you could see the whole thing happening. No germ absolutely tickets. VHS, all of that. You could see it happening in real time. I love you buddy, Thanks for being on the show. We'll talk soon. Okay? Andrew. Thanks for having me on. I know you guys have a killer lineup.

Want to give some people the preview because I know some people occasionally bounce off when I, when I leave, but like the lineup is

insane. Oh yeah, it's it's incredible. So next up, we've got on the NFL uh and we've got Emily's okay who's gonna be joining in on that conversation. We've got the CMO from EOS, um and a creator that they've done a lot of collaborations with Carly Joy. We've got a whole bunch of creators, so, Spencer X, the floral gaze, Michael lee. Um and then we're bringing Sophie Jamison back the chief Tiktok officer from NErf. We want to hear what's up in her world as it continues to change. So don't leave anybody. All right, take it easy. So next up, we're gonna welcome banner Media's peter chun to the virtual stage. Hey, peter, how's it going? In California?

Looks like it's a little sunny out there.

Hey, Andrea, this is um yeah, very fortunate to be out here, given the weather in the circumstances on the East

Coast, so yeah, Fantastic. Well, super fired up to uh, to have our next guest join us. It is none other other than Ian Trombetta, he's S VP of social influencer and content marketing at the NFL uh, Ian has done a masterful job, if I can say in really helping to transform a more modern approach that the NFL and he's going to give us some some tips and tricks on that. Um He oversees the integration of all things social and content for not only the league, but players and all of the club handles, so lots there and has put a particular focus on gen Z and youth audiences, so I will leave it to the two of you to get started. Thanks so much for joining.

Thank you. Andrea it's been great to see you again, so excited for this man um Alright, so so one of the things we discussed and, and Gary alluded to this in some of the earlier sessions is you know, you are in a position where there's so much growth and impact that you've had, just not only in the Tiktok platform to consumers, but also to advertisers and in the spirit of trying to deliver some value. I think we're going to have really good conversations and nuggets for those that are on the brand side that are looking to lean in. Um so I actually would love to start with your origin story, so talk a little bit about your background um and I think it's really important because people will assume because you have the NFL logo that you'll just be successful on the platform and it's actually the opposite, it's probably harder and I think a lot of this comes from your background, your D N A. So I think it would be super helpful to provide people a little bit of that context. Yeah, awesome. Thanks peter and I first of all, I just want to shout out all of you at Boner, you guys do such an awesome job building this community and putting events like this on, so I just wanted to tell you how humbled I am to be a part of it and thank you guys for having me on um as a as it relates back to my origin story, I was very fortunate. I started as an unpaid intern at show today in the late nineties and early two thousand's and was fortunate to get a job there. But that was a place that was really magical at the time. I mean you had apple there with steve jobs and launching Itunes and the Mac and so on. Um, in addition to that, you had Taco Bell and the IOC. So just a very diverse slate of brands that were doing incredible world class work.

So that was a really foundational time for me to be there, uh, and learn from some of the best likely plow. I mean, he would spend time with us as young account people and, and teach us about what he was thinking about from a creative strategy perspective and so on. Um, as the years went on there, I had a great run at that shot. Um, there was a brand, this quirky Austrian brand called Red Bull that was popping up all over the city. It was very mysterious and weird. I mean it was, it was in the clubs and you see the sampling cars around, he started seeing these kind of, these grassroots events popping up and my friends and I were really taking note of it. And uh, one of my buddies from shy had actually went to go work for Red bull and he kept telling me for months that you've got to, you've got to come over here, there were rewriting the playbook for marketing and in the space and inventing a new category, this energy drink category. Um so I I declined initially, but after about six months of seeing what was going on, I took the flyer and and actually went over to work together with, with red bull and help out with their advertising and marketing. And at that time I think there was about 30 people in the North American headquarters. Just give you a sense of how, how small it was at that time. And it was just a tremendous experience. Learning about grassroots grassroots events on premise marketing, understanding really how to do athlete marketing and some of these niche sports at scale, just a tremendous opportunities.

So while we were there I had a couple of different stints um gaming became a vertical, gaming became a vertical for us. And Activision was one of the partners we were working with and uh fast forward in 2014 they are from me a role and that role was to work across titles in a variety of different ways and was fortunate to to learn all about, you know, launching titles and through our CMO tim, ellis, this idea of big entertainment marketing tied to always on engagement. That was a really big part of how we marketed those games. Uh and then when tim uh took the job at the NFL as a CMO uh, you know, he offered me a great position and I'm a huge sports fan. I mean, I'm as big of a Steelers fan as probably gary as a Jets fan and, and uh, when the opportunity came over for, for me to, to help out and really look at what we're doing from a youth perspective, what we were doing from a gender perspective across social and influencer, I had to jump at the chance. So for the last three years I've been here at the NFL overseeing social influencer and content marketing and it's just been, it's been terrific. Yeah, so, so really, I mean Red Bull in its day today, it's such a commonplace brand, but in its heyday when it was ramping up, it was an unknown brand. It was very grassroot with culture and community. Um, so really, you've been at the forefront of really being part of companies that have been disruptors in the space, obviously activation being another part of that. So it's great to hear a lot of this isn't just a logo, a lot of it isn't just kind of, the reputation of brand might have on instagram, A lot of it is really just staying close to the community, the culture you're trying to get to. So let's, let's talk a little bit about Tiktok and how Tiktok came to the NFL, right? I mean, it feels obvious, but the NFL has been cutting deals with every other major social platform for a long time.

So it feels like maybe there was a moment early on where there was a little bit of a bet that you, you, you took on yourself and the organization to say we have to invest into Tiktok, Tell us a little bit about that moment because I feel many brands are on the precipice of coming in, but I feel a little bit of risk and a little bit of concern and your experience might be able to help them over the edge. Sure, yeah. So when I started at the NFL, there were three big observations that I had. The first one was that there was an opportunity to broaden the storytelling beyond the field with players and to do that social was going to play a key role in that, right? You know, independent of platform. You, we really needed to, to leverage that and understand ways that we could supercharge that. Uh, the second one was that we needed to rebuild a structure internally that could scale uh, internally, we didn't have a structure that could take on a Tiktok effectively or take on, you know, some of these new new emerging platforms really well. And the third was building direct relationships with influencers that were more social influencers. So think phase plan versus Bradley cooper, right? And we were much more, I was much more interested in going after the phase plan and necessarily going after Bradley cooper, because we could drive always on engagement Now, where were those people spending most of their time? Uh increasingly it was, you know, platforms like Instagram platforms like Twitter and then obviously Tiktok emerged in 2019. So we wanted to be on that platform before it really reached a huge scale and we were basically losing out on that audience.

And so 2019 we launched pretty quietly, I would say we were testing some things and quickly we found out that the game highlights were not really what was driving the platform. It was all of this ancillary content off the field that the humor based content, the content that was really focused on storytelling through personality that was resonating to the top so that we really leaned into it that way and I give my team, you know, great amount of credit. We have functional experts that are on the platform every day and understand it very intimately and that's I think super, super important. Yeah, I think one of the things I've observed is is how nitty gritty you folks are in the comments and a brand like the NFL engaging with an individual that that might have no followers on the platform is what has allowed you to find those opportunities to get close to culture. Let's talk a little bit about culture. Um and how you think about creators and finding creators that allow you to speak authentically to the community. Uh yeah, let's get into that. And of course I want to bring on, bring on Emily's after that. Yeah, and it is absolutely the most for us, I mean, our influencer program and what we do on the platform is is really designed to build direct relationships and how can we benefit the creator or the influencer in a way that we're using our brand scale the league scale to help build their brands, Right. And how can we do that in ways that are created for both, right, then bringing new audiences to us and vice versa, right? We bring a ton of, of scale and opportunities with access and so on around our games or otherwise, that could be really interesting to them for great content opportunities. So as we do that, Tiktok is obviously very interesting.

I think it's, it's fantastic. We're all these amazing creators and we're going to talk to one here in a minute, uh, they're emerging and emerging very quickly. So just having your finger on the pulse of that is super important. I've got an amazing team again that, that does that and identifies who these creators are. We keep an eye on them and we see how they're posting, we want to make sure that they're staying in the lane, that's positive, that we're not going after anything negative or tearing down, you know, any teams or individuals and then once we have a level of comfort, you know, the team will come up with ideas on ways that we can engage them and and obviously Emily Emily is a great example, but but one of many that we're we've been working with over this past year, we're gonna continue to scale that up. Yeah, I mean to that end, let's actually, let's bring Emily on Hi guys, hey, how

are you? Good, How are you?

Amazing, Amazing. I'm, I'm expecting the comments to go pretty nuts right now, but why don't we just do a quick intro? Um you can give a quick 32nd intro, not that you necessarily need one, but it'd be helpful context for this crew because you're so multidimensional and then I want to jump to a sizzle reel that actually talks about the partnership you and the NFL you and Ian have effectively put together, which I think is one of the best we've seen. Um so please go,

that's crazy. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Um my name is Emily, zug. Um I make ugly logos on Tiktok, I mean beautiful, beautiful. Sorry, um I started on Tiktok last year, I'm just kind of goofing around. Um I found some success with satire content. Um my first satire video ever made made barstool sports. So I was like, oh, there's some potential here. And then um in september the logo thing blew up and now I'm on this beautiful show. So

you actually redesigned, redesigned our marketing for the Now logo, check out the linkedin page. You can see how should be blessed us with this piece of work that we may have not converted to an N. F. T. Call it again. Um, but we won't talk about that. But you folks have done in a pretty pretty incredible and very organic partnership and I think it speaks to a lot of what Ian discussed earlier around structure infrastructure and being close to culture and of course you're just doing what you do. Um, so let's play, let's play this quick video for the audience and then I think it'll set up the follow up combo. We have,

I graduated college with a degree in design and recently redesigned some logos and I thought needed help. After going through the comments, a lot of large brands reached out to me for a new logo. So I said yes, some really bad logo. This is my redesign of adobe. I really think I blew it out of the park like a waste of space to me. So this is your new logo. Mm hmm. This whole reached out to me. They do sports like football and such. So I redesigned it in a much more patriotic way. I'm pretty sure he is the president of the football in America. Mhm.

Thanks to Emily, we now have this beautiful new logo for the nipple and because we are the nipple, we also wanted to lend our resources to Emily just like Emily I have a passion for graphic design and I thought her profile picture could use some spicing up. So I did some digging and thought this best represents you. And also a name tag because it's not good with names. Mm hmm. Next I did Detroit's football team the lines and I don't really understand your logo. So I just cleaned it up and this will look a lot nicer on jerseys, helmets, merchandise. What a lying. That they don't even say lying, try try it. Yeah, that's

so good. So if we can like what made this partnership so valuable in my mind is how authentic it was. It was clearly, I think you're getting hit up by brands all the time. What was it about the NFL that stood out? What was it about? How Ian's team was connecting with you. Um if it was something else, what was it that made you gravitate towards it And then Ian would love your your thoughts on just giving freedom and letting Emily do her thing. You know, NFL is such a heritage brand and just being free and letting the creator do her thing here, I think is a really important takeaway.

I think it was sort of when all of this was blowing up, I wanted to sort of test the limits and see how big of a response we could get with it. So the NFL is like, everybody knows the NFL, you know what I mean? Um so I just threw them in there and I thought, hey, why not? And I think people responded in such a positive way because they met me where I was at, um, with the type of content that I make, even my like personality, the delivery was just so fantastic. I loved your video and um, I think people responded in such a positive way because we built this fantastic relationship off of like a joke. Um, I think people just responded in such a positive way and love to see the NFL just colliding with some random Tiktok er, and being able to sort of, um, you know, poke fun at their own brand.

Yeah. And I think that's a great, great point, Emily and, and peter, I think looking at at Tiktok understanding that there's a self mocking nature to it and creativity and humor at the center. So if you're gonna play on the platform, you have to be ready to embrace that. So that, that is really central to having a great team, a big shout out to Shannon and Kylie and josh and team for putting it together. And they came to me with it and we decided, hey, what's the, what's the worst, the worst that could happen here? And ultimately this was not going to kill the NFL if it didn't go well, it was, it was worth the risk if you want to call it that. And I think that's really, as a brand, you have to do that analysis for yourself. Is that something that you're going to embrace? A level of risk? Uh and, and really take the tone uh that is on Tiktok, especially humor, self mocking nature of creativity, and if you're not going to do that, I really question what you're, what you're going to do, especially with creators like Emily, because we wanted to share a bit of a sandbox for her to create and then obviously come back at her in a playful way. That was also in her style. So a couple of takeaways, let let the creator have his or her freedom.

Don't take your brand too seriously and kind of live into the culture. Um so really, really valuable. Alright, and we have about, you know, six minutes or so, and I want to spend a little bit of time talking about you, uh and some of your work. Um and one of the things that stands out is this idea of episodic content, Which we believe that the owners are such an important thing. We think 2022 is going to be a really big year of long form, not long form, short, long form etcetera, but branded content in this episodic type of way. Can you talk a little bit around your thinking? And the approach to the logo design, Was it one of many ideas? How did that go? And it start, did it immediately explode? Or did it require a lot of commitment to it? Um to really kind of build that out?

Yeah. Um so I think I experimented with episodic content really early on in my Tiktok career. Um so sort of how I mentioned before how my my satire videos would they would do pretty well because um I would play this almost dumb blonde character and people feed into it and I just thought it was the funniest thing, and um eventually though some of the comments, they were hurting my ego, so I was like, okay, there are some people who know this is a joke, some people don't think it's a joke, so how can I bring this to the next level? And eventually, um this is what really grew my my relationship with my audience to, I started to make these comment reading videos where I would choose the best comments that just the funniest. Um and I saw that people would want to come back for those and and they loved it, they wanted to see the next one. So, um the logo design was just another idea I had of maybe some graphic designers will see this and be like, what is she doing? That is not how you do it. And um it kind of blew up right away. I think just the sheer number of brands that were commenting on it, I think that was what made it crazy, you know, I think alone, the concept is pretty funny, but just the fact that so many brands were behind it and we're jumping in, you know, and wanted to kind of be in on the joke. Um the comment section was just like, no man, like it was a free for all. It was so fun though. It was, it was great.

I mean to the point around the fake accent, I don't know how many folks here know the Ellen story, but you should give, you should give everyone here a little bit of that.

Yeah, so, um, if you've ever seen my Tik Toks, you know, I don't smile, I don't laugh, I have a pretty dry sense of humor on Tiktok, but um, my whole concept behind that was to, I went to art school, so I wanted to be the person that like annoyed me and art critiques. So I tried to channel that and um, just be that person everybody kind of looks at and it's like, are they serious? So, um yeah, in real life, I, I smile, I laugh, I have a personality. And um, when I got the call for the allen show, there was an idea thrown out where they said, hey, you should you like your Tiktok persona and I didn't sleep for like three days after because I think it works very well on Tiktok, but to be in a space where I'm speaking to somebody and I can't edit it the way I want to, you know, I can't cut it. I was freaking out. Um, and eventually I got the green light that I could just smile and be myself. So that really come to my nerves.

Um, yeah, as we, you know, as we think about Tiktok and we, you know earlier, we've had, we heard some of the guests speak about the algorithm, how the algorithm is so different and speak a little bit about that challenge potentially as a creator because I know even our creators and others that we work with find that to be inconsistent, but any tips and advice around how to deal with that as a creator.

Yeah. Um, I think, you know, at the end of the day, you really, you can't get to, you can't get too married to one concept because the way that Tiktok works and society works, trends come and go. So I think you definitely should enjoy any success that you do have, but don't be afraid to branch out and try new things. Um, because why not? I, I don't know, I mean there's just so much potential on, on, on the app and there's so many things that you could do with it. So, um, also, I think branching out to different forms of social media is really important because the Tiktok algorithm can be great sometimes and then other times it can be like what's going on, you know, if you're trying to switch up your content and try a new, a new concept. Um, so I think branching out to other forms of media is really important.

You know, it's a great point because Tiktok is now everywhere. And so, you know, are there, look, are you looking at other platforms, whether it's snap or ig reels or Youtube shorts? Um, and where we, where we could potentially find you?

Yes, all the above, I'm doing my absolute best to grow, um, anywhere that I can, I'm going to start streaming on twitch soon and uploading to youtube also. Um, so that's in the future and I'm excited and I'm thankful uh, for Tiktok to give me this platform to?


Thank you, Emily, Iain and Peter, this was remarkable. It's really nice to hear the back and forth, and love the love all the work that you've done. Thanks so much for joining us today. Thank

you. Thanks

and thank you Peter. And next up we welcome Brittany Diamond from Banner. Can you believe dr thursday brit better than that? Oh my gosh! Well, it's gonna get even better in just a second because we've got the CMO of EOS products, Who's going to be joining you, can you believe it brit? How often do we talk about her and all the work that we do, Her ears must be ringing, I think they are okay, so let's bring her on, her name is so young King. Um, I have to share one, I love so young you can tell. She loves to take risks, but there's a story that she shared with us that I think is a must tell because I think it's something that she embraces in her day to day work life as well. So while so young was on a backpack trip and she was piranha fishing in the amazon river, she happened to fall into the water. So I think that says something right there about how she goes about her life. So I'm going to now depart from this conversation and let you guys take it from here. I love it.

I'm so excited for this. You have no idea. Um, Andrea already said it, but we talked about you weekly, if not many times a week. Um, we've been following you ever since the, you know, the interaction that you had with Carly, which will go over in a little. Um, but yours is just so great on Tiktok stalk them, Follow them. Um, love it all. So I can't wait for everyone to get little nuggets of wisdom from you. I'm super excited to be here. Thank you of course. So I guess we can start with um, you know, what's your overall philosophy on social as a whole? Oh yeah, I mean, well social is hugely important for us as a brand. Um, you probably already know, but most of our consumers are relatively young.

So we really, um, just sort of like live and breathe social across multiple platforms and we do consider it our superpower and we focus a lot on it, we are constantly engaging with folks, we learn a lot on it, we listen and we try to learn things that are going to drive our business and drive our brand. I love that and organizationally would just love to know what were you brought onto EOS to do and what was really your mission when you joined? Yes, so I joined EOS about 3.5 years ago, um I am the first ever chief marketing officer for this business. Um it's existed for a little over a decade um but they really brought me into um, see the brand into the next phase of growth. I mean the first like 10 years were amazing in terms of growth through largely this like super famous lip balm that the brand is known for and then um really the leadership wanted to bring someone in to kind of say, hey how do we expand? How do we stand for something more than this famous product that we, that people are obsessed with and that's really been my mandate and I think we're, you know, we're talking about Tiktok and a lot of that has happened on Tiktok. Tiktok has been very good for growing our brand and diversifying beyond what we used to stand for, I was just gonna say so um I would love for you to give a little a little overview about what you're doing on Tiktok and really how you started there. I mean, it sounds like you were, you were out to get it from the get go. Um, so once it came up, it's no, it's no surprise that you were there. Um, and yeah, yeah, so, I mean, I think it's really interesting cause I've been listening to all the sessions and I think it's interesting that everyone who's spoken so far has talked about the fact that they've been on Tiktok since pretty early on for brands. You know, we're sitting here and I'm sure there are a lot of marketers right now, we're wondering when it's time to jump in. And I say like there's no time like the present.

So we started looking at Tiktok like many other, many of the other speakers Back in 2018. And we first started to um, really market on Tiktok, build a presence, deliver organic content, build our own community in 2019 as well. I myself have been like pretty active on Tiktok, not not as a creator, but like as a user, as a consumer of Tiktok since 2018 as well. And so for us, you know, I really do think that like the brands that have taken the, that leap of faith into platforms that they believe could be really integral to their to their brand and reaching their consumer, I think just like getting in it and doing it and taking some risks and jumping in, even if you don't know exactly what you're doing yet, there's no, there's no better way to learn and then ultimately like hone your game. Um, I will say, you know, we work with a lot of brands and also, um, just overall when something new comes along, it's scary, right? Like Tiktok is scary um what was it like, were there any barriers and getting on the platform? Because it was so new and it was so different and you know, brands are acting different on Tiktok than they are on instagram facebook twitter. Um what do you go through? Well, I mean we've always been a pretty big, we've always had a big social followings. We have like millions of followers across facebook and instagram, but the thing is is, you know, every platform is different and then your approach really needs to, to, to be different and you need to tailor your content depending on like the nuances of that platform, the audience, the algorithm, all of the above, but there's really no better way to refine your strategy than to do it and to learn. And so for us um yeah, there were a lot of things that were maybe a little bit bumpy in the initial phases at the time. We were doing a lot.

We were actually doing a lot directly with the Tiktok team, like they helped us licensed music, they helped us like discover creators. Um, so there were things that, you know, if I think back to our, our first activation versus like are more, you know, recent, um, marketing efforts on Tiktok, it has changed a lot dramatically, but we've changed a lot too and we've learned so much in the course of that. Like almost three years where we, I think have learned what works for us. We've tried a lot of things every time we, we run a campaign and we do something new, we, we basically set up something different that we can try something new that we've never done before. Whether it's like the concept, whether it's the type of creator that we work with, whether it's like even just like the mix between the organic versus the paid. So we're always mixing things up, always trying to learn new things and as a result, I feel like we've packed in like so much learning in what's actually been a relatively short period of time, always be learning. If you can't take anything away, everyone always be learning and always be testing. Um, from that. Would you say that your voice or even your content has differed on Tiktok, then it is on, let's say instagram 100%. I mean 100%. Like, so we, um, you know, we talked about, I think a lot of the folks have, who have spoken to talked about the fact that like you can't take yourself yourself too seriously on Tiktok people can sniff out inauthenticity like from a mile away and so being authentic, being real, being um, Goofy. One of one of my team members actually recently said to me as we were like hind citing our annual performance, she was like, you know, as a brand, we're not afraid to get weird and she meant that it's like the hugest compliment and I think nothing exemplifies that more than our Tiktok content strategy.

We're not afraid to get weird, we're not afraid to get real, we're not afraid to use the language like that that people use in their day to day because on Tiktok more than I would say on any other platform that we've ever engaged on were part of the community, We're not just a brand talking at people and I would say and Emily alluded to it. But the comment section is just gold, gold lurks in the comment section. So you're either going to get a lot of haters if you're inauthentic or you're gonna get a lot, a lot of love in completely. I completely agree with that. I love it. All right before we even show um, you know carly's video, I would love for you to give 3-5 traits that other companies can embody to, you know, move at the speed of culture and really do how much you've done in such a short amount of time. I think that um I think that the, the appetite for risk has to be there. So being brave and and feeling comfortable leaning in I think has to be there and I think that starts at the leadership level, but it has to really be at the working team level as well. And so so you know, bravery I think is one thing, but the only way that you can really help your team and your organization be brave is if you create a an environment where it's okay for people to learn and sometimes succeed and sometimes fail and so that level of like that learning mindset has to be there and then the last pieces, you know, in order to have that learning mindset, you really have to create a sense of trust, trust within your team, trust that if if like I said like something doesn't work that it's really a learning opportunity versus a, you know, a mark against them. So those are really the kind of the hallmarks I think of any really great team that learns a lot and learns fast and grows. I love it. Well before we bring on Carly would love to show the video um that really jump started.

One of the most amazing interactions I have seen on Tiktok. Um I I blush a little every time I watch it. So everyone watching, you might too um you're not alone. I can't wait for my

um my people

with female parts

out there. Um but the secret for how to bless your fucking coach?

You need this ship? It is an absolute blessing and you can dry shape with this. That's fucking saying something. I use the fat as venus, Gillette razors. I obviously cannot show my coach on camera, so pretend this is it, right? You're gonna take this hopefully in the shower, if you're not fucking it still works, you're gonna put that all there, Then listen to this fucking part, you're gonna go down first, then you're gonna go sideways on half of it, this way sideways on half of it this way and then you go up, I swear, I swear by it, whatever you fucking do, do not use this ship, it'll make you smell like ship after a couple of days because it throws off your ph balance, Don't fucking do it. And now you have a smooth ass hoo

ha, you're welcome.

I love it Carly. I love it so much. Every time I watch it, it literally never gets old. Every time I see it, I'm like, oh my God, I really said that it's amazing. Oh my goodness. And you know, I need to know you put out a Tiktok like that. It's the new demo, I'm calling it the modern demo, right? It's no longer boring, it's no longer a brand talking at you, but it's a, a real person, giving them their real review. Um but how surprised were you or were you surprised that this blew up as big as it did? Well, okay, so at first I wasn't as big of a content creator back then, but you know, I still had videos that like probably every like once a month of video would get a couple of million likes, but so at first I was like, oh, you know, it's normal. Like I'm cussing and being funny, whatever and then just kept going and it just kept going and going going and I was like, oh my God, like, wait, hold on. So yeah, after a little bit, I was like, I can't believe people want to listen to me talk about shaving your, you know, like that much.

But yeah, it was cool. Was surprising. That's amazing. Um, I have to say it came up on my for you page. So, um, I'm, I'm the demo, right? I love it. I need to know. Um, well for everyone here that was obviously an original video from Carly. Um, but what videos do after this? Tiktok blew up Carly? How did they respond? And were you, did that even take you to a level two of like, wow, this has gone way too far and now it's really up on a mountain.

So normally I don't do sponsorships or partnerships with brands or anything because I think that like you said, they're inauthentic and I don't like not being able to be myself on camera, but when they sent me actually everyone here, when they sent me the personalized bottles. This says, am I allowed to cuss Yeah, go get em all right, bless your fucking coach on the front. Um you need this ship, you can dry shape with it. That's fucking saying something and the back is all the original instructions. And I really wasn't even like considering the partnership until I saw that. And then I was like, oh my God, like holy God. And then yeah, that's definitely the only reason I went with it because I realized that this brand is willing to like, let me just be myself, Oh my God, I can't even tell you Brittany. Like we were desperate to get in touch with carly Joy, like desperate. So basically we did all of this within like days. Like we created all custom rebranded repackaged bottles with all her words on it. It was like the thirstiest move that a brand has ever like, like attempted and we were basically like trying to get her attention. That's literally the reason why we did it.

We do edit her video and that's when she replied to us and and reached back out to us and then we were able to collaborate together and it was so authentic on her side and that's that's what I love about it. I mean like she is so herself and that's what, that's what, that's what really resonated with people and the fact that we could then celebrate her authenticity and her amazing like actual educational advice on how to, you know, bless your coach, like that's that was something that was such a, the gold golden opportunity for us. But it was, it was totally a desperate move for us. That that's where they all originated from. Well I just love that you used her words, right? Um and also totally leaned into Carly, like you said the cursing just like the whole whole thing. Um it was so authentic on both both of your parts, right? And I think that um that the fact that you made that so quickly um products take how long to get on shelves and you were able to turn that out. Um so quick is just so so awesome and really shows how how fast your organization really moved. Um but I need to know uh what were the results from this? I I know they're, there probably is a little bit of a perception problem of like there it's only a lip balm which you alluded to a little bit earlier, but now it's being seen as this amazing uh shaving cream, what what did this do for us? And what were the results even in sales for it?

Yeah, so we literally coming out of this, this collaboration with Carly Joy, we basically doubled our our shaved business sales. Um now that it's like a blessing and a curse because we doubled our sales and then we actually ran out of product. We were sold out on shelves everywhere. Like if you, if you look at like Tiktok and twitter commentary, people are like, I'm desperate to follow to bless my couch, but I cannot find the shave cream anywhere. So there is work for unbelievable. Our business continues to be up, you know, continuing to ride that momentum. So for anybody who is doubtful about what, how weather Tiktok can influence and impact your sales. I mean, this absolutely proves that with the right partnership with the right creator with the right authenticity, it can really move the needle on your business and I, this blows me away because it didn't come from content straight from your brand. It was complete community management and like keeping your finger on the pulse, seeing what people are saying about you. Um, I like to say that community management is the most important thing that you can do, especially on Tiktok and this is obviously a case of that. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we actually, we saw Carly Joy's content like right away she actually, I don't even know if you tagged us on it Carly, just like, I think it just like came across our for you page is and then we were trying to reach out to her because we were just like, you know, like in love with with what she was doing and um, our response was really are way for her to grab her attention.

Um, you know, because we had no other way to get in touch with her. So yeah, absolutely. The insights come through, building a community, building an authentic community to always having your ear to the ground and listening to what's happening on the platform. And then if you're, if you're really fast and you lean in, you can really take advantage of it as a marketer and turn, take that moment and turn it into momentum for your business. Nice. Um, I know we only have one more minute left, but uh, one more question for you and that is beyond just Tiktok beyond the like what you're doing on that platform. Did Carlie's content help you do any other tactics in marketing for the actual shape cream. I mean, yeah, so we actually, we launched this on our website. Like we had an entire like D2C campaign that went on around this. Um, so this was like living across all of our platforms, um, not just on Tiktok and then really it opened up this dialogue because the thing that I think I really have to give Carly Joy huge credit for the way that she's taking a topic that people are curious about and they want to be educated on and like just being real about it and that's what was like beautiful about like the content is like, yeah, like I want to know how to shave my coach. Like nobody taught me that. Like, so Carly Joy is gonna teach me that on Tiktok.

Um and, and so like for us, that's, that's also enabled just for our brand to embrace a more open, real and authentic approach to education with our consumers more broadly. And so even subsequently we've had like additional content that we've launched along other in other campaigns where we're just like, it's like real talk and it's solving real problems for people, but not in like that sort of like hesitant corporate speak, but in like in real people's words. And that's what I really loved about Carly Joyce content. It's actually made an impact, an impact on our brand. Yeah, I mean, I could only imagine also google just how many people were googling blessed by coach, you know? Yes, of course. It was the number, it was the number one search term on our site for quite some time. Coach Cream on our site. Everybody was searching for coach cream. Some people were searching for couch cream, just a little bit of a typo. I love it. Well, thank you both so, so much for joining.

Um this was amazing. And I mean I'm gonna be talking about you every week so if your ears are ringing, you know why we so love this is so great. Thanks to you both for joining. Excellent. We're gonna welcome peter chun back to the virtual stage and we have a special guest Peter guess who's coming back, I cannot, I cannot wait. Jameson the Chief Tiktok officer of NErf. So if you were so excited to have you, we want to hear all about what's been going on since the last time we had a chance to talk to you. So I'm gonna let you guys dive right into it.

Amazing. Thank you. Thank you. Sophie welcome back. Um, I know you've got so much going on in every good way. So you've got to give a little bit of that tea and goes to this audience. Um, but for those that may not be familiar with you, you are the first you were and I still think you still are the only chip chief Tic tac officer that exists, which actually speaks to how slow the market is moving into kind of the space. But Tell us a little bit around your role just to do like a quick 32nd for those that are not aware and a little bit of the origin story that got you there, which is, which is, which is, which actually speaks volumes to Hasbro as an organization, nerve as a brand, believing in in, in the platform in the community.

Yeah, I'll keep it short. But I just had my own Tiktok channel just posting what I enjoyed, you know, I was excited to get 10 followers didn't really care about that was just creating content that I liked then kind of blew up nerve created this position, chief Tiktok officer. It was super unique to apply. You have to make a Tiktok video. So I applied of course and then got the job. It was supposed to be a max temporary gig for three months and we're now one month nine with no end in sight. So,

and, and it's been almost what five months since we last had you on this to kind of talk about you and, and, and some of the stuff you're working on in the world of Tiktok, that's an eternity. Um, so what's been going on? What's been keeping you busy and how things have evolved and what's changed even within the organization and how you think about the platform.

Yeah, absolutely. So personally, I've just been given so much more responsibility on the nerve team, which is fantastic. Um, I'm actually like posting the content now before I was just creating it and then sending it through. Now I'm logging in a Tiktok, posting it and I'm creating videos months in advance. Of course, there's times when you got to move at the speed of culture, so you gotta change the scheduling around and post a trend that day. But otherwise, you know, our calendar is nicely extended, still posting on my channel is keeping up with trends and I've just learned so much about so many things over the past nine months has just been incredible.

Yeah. The last time you were on, there were three things you really, really blessed the audience with one, which is 25% of Tiktok's you produced were actually successful to, you had Anywhere between 3-5 people full time working within comments. And then the third thing was that, you know, the company was still very hurt naturally, right, when there was negative commenting on the platform and that was like a little bit of tension. Are those three things still holding up? How has that evolved? Let's add to the list and provide a little bit more, more fuel for those that are, that are watching and leaning in.

Absolutely, yeah. So a couple more pieces of information that I've really seen work successfully as being the face of this brand has just been integral to getting people to watch the videos. You get one or two seconds when people are going through their for you page. So if they see me, this is not to sound hubris, but if they see me, they know nerf, so they're like, oh, it's Sophie lightning, it's a nerve video. I'm gonna watch it. So you get this immediate hook and context that you don't get. If you're having a random creator every day, you know, doing a separate video, people already have a little bit of keyed in information as to what's happening. I've also really been paying attention to average watch time. I think that that's crucial and most importantly, just not getting stuck up on follower and view count. I've really hit this point where just looking at analytics and sales and R. O. I.

It's so much more important to have 100 people who love what you're doing and watch every Tiktok and and are passionate versus a million really passive viewers who are just, you know, kind of along for the ride. So changing what we're valuing as a company when we're analyzing the channel has been so integral,

so relevancy overreach and really focusing on that. You know, it's funny, we, we talked a little bit with Emily's about episodic content and obviously part of that is her being the spokesperson. We've seen a lot of push into the mascot space. Um you know, with with a lot of different companies, um you might have a hot take on that.

Oh yeah, I got hot takes this time last time, I was a little shy. No Hot

takes family, let's go,

Noah, mascot can be great. It does like kind of key in viewers to what's happening, but there is, you know, one channel, I think we all know it that is doing phenomenal things with their mascot and I see 15 to 30 carbon copies of that, that's just not going to work when you're looking at literally anything, what matters is your channel and what your viewers want to see. So if you're just copying somebody else, it's not gonna work. So you can have a mascot, but the scandalous mascot is already kind of taken, you know, so moving away from that, having having someone be the face of the brand can be great, it can be a mascot. Somebody that viewers can connect with, you got to make sure that your mascot has its own individual personality.

So how would so what's some advice to to help brands think through that? Because it's easy to jump to a mascot. They think about it through the lens of their brand, they think about it in the lens of how it makes their brand better. They're not necessarily thinking about how the brand can connect with the community. That's always a second thought, which which I which we see as most marketers mistake coming into the platform, is they introduced what they think their brand should be versus connecting with how the community speaking with the brand. Um, but if a brand is going down the mascot row, like what are what are some, some things to avoid and perhaps a couple of things that that they should lean into,

I mean, definitely just listening to your community is so, so crucial here, reading the comments and creating a personality for this mascot that your viewers want to see and once again not copying, like I just think that that's so, so important, you know, and and just having

the company will be named, will will not be named yet.

Yeah, no, I'm not calling anybody out, but

got it, got it. Um so let's talk a little bit about some of the trends that are different today then Then even 90 days ago or when you were last on, I mean there's so much that's happening to the platform. The platform is more or less doubled. What are you seeing? Yeah,

Yeah. Alright. More hot takes. I see a lot of brands building their entire Tiktok personality around trends, although it is crucial to implement trends occasionally, you gotta really hand select them and create them only when they truly fit into your content and in your channel, if you build your whole image around trends, everybody does trends, why do I want to follow another channel that just does trends? It's the same exact thing. Why do I want to follow your channel? If you're just posting ads, if you're just re posting videos from other social media channels, you know, so it's just that type of thing of diversifying and trends can be so, so powerful if you do them correctly. So you just have to understand how your brand and how your niche fits into the trend and really think about it before you want to do it. And keeping an eye on that time, if you're late to the trend, you're late and you've just got to accept it and move on and find the next trend. If you're early, you got to take the risk if you think it's going to get big, do it before, it gets big. It's so much better to do that and flop than doing it late and flopping, you know, at least you tried.

Yeah, yeah, there's a hindsight's always 2020. But yeah, we, we talk a lot about brands that want to jump into a trend that may even be two or three weeks old. And it actually just shows you how slow and how not contemporary the brands actually are. You have to understand it. Like you're, you're in the corporate seat, right? So in the brand's my 2 to 3 weeks is speed, but at the speed of culture, it's late. And I think that's, that's something that I think a lot of brands get caught up with. Let's, let's talk a little bit about creators because you were a creator then you went brand side talk a little bit about how you work with creators today And how that conversation starts to move. But also, you know, we are at the precipice of the creator economy, right? Like Instagram is going to deploy majority their billion dollars that they committed to the creator fund this year. YouTube Tiktok snap every $100 million dollars as creators start to become more integrated with corporate as they become more integrated with creative organizations within some of these agencies and companies because of just the endemic nature of what they do and they can speak to the consumer, how how should they be thinking about that transition potentially. And any other words of advice as, as those, those creators want to make the leap,

definitely. So, you know, for me, I'm still a creator at heart and although I'm working on the corporate side, I still have my own channel, but I also still am just a creator for the brand. And Nerve had this monumental decision to make, we had people apply for this position CTO that had 10 times as many followers as me. So they had to go and choose between the authentic person who is known for nerve or the person with the following. And I think that's already been kind of covered throughout previous guests earlier today, but just picking the creator that is authentic and actually enjoys the brand. You can tell it's, it's so silly. You can tell when the creator isn't enjoying what they're doing, you have to give them trust. You gotta, you can't keep them on a short leash, you can't tell them what they should produce. Uh, I feel like creating an actual influential video on Tiktok is all about being actually passionate about what you're talking about. So if somebody came to me right now with a script for a Tiktok video and was like, I'll pay you a million dollars. I would say, no, I'm not doing that. I would hate it.

It would not represent who I am. And I think a lot of other creators agree with that as well as just overall success rate. It's just have to be a successful

Sophie thanks so much for taking time joining us again, We're going to have you on again in five months to bless us with more insight on trends.


Yes, let's do it before she gets even bigger.

Thanks guys. Fantastic. Next we will welcome Ryan Harwood to the virtual stage, Ryan, How you doing?

How's it going?

Good, I'm excited. You're going to take us home the final lap of marketing for the now where we're going to hear from a whole slew of exciting creators. So thank you for that. And first up we've got Spencer X. He's a beat boxer director and internet personality. He is one of the largest original sound creators on Tiktok with over 1000 original sounds, billions of views and over 50 million followers and I happened to say I love your life model, persistence, patience and possibility. Welcome.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you guys for having me here, I love it. Spencer. What's up my man, man, living the life of a beat boxer man. Just Los Angeles, now missing missing my home in new york city, new york city misses you as well. Thanks for joining us today. I appreciate your time. You know, before I jump into the world of Tiktok with you, you know, you've been a creator for a long time. Tell me what was the first platform that you started creating content on before I shift gears to the Tiktok space? Yeah, What a loaded question man. That, that's, yeah, I've been doing beatboxing since like 15 years now.

So the first time I created content was on YouTube. I want to say it was like in 2000 and I have actually a previous YouTube that I've had before, the YouTube that you see right now. Uh, because that one was created in 2012 when I was in an acapella group. Um, but I started like in 2008 man do that like back in like 2008, Um, and that was the first time I found out about the internet really, like it was like, not, not actually, but it was the first time I used the internet as a resource to widen my perspective about the world. Um, yeah, that's that. You just threw me back right now. And when Tiktok came on your radar, were you fast to move over to that platform or were you hesitant at first and then kind of slowly adopted and then realized it's all about music and it's perfect for someone like you. Like, how did you think about that? That's a really, that's another interesting question because I didn't see myself as much of a content creator back then. I thought I was like, hey, all right. I'm gonna, I'm gonna get into the space. I'm just gonna make some videos, someone's gonna recognize me.

I'm a beatbox. I'm very, very unique, but never did I think like, wow, this is gonna turn into something that was, you know, top 10 in America 1000 unique sounds, billions of views. Uh, no, my plan was just to put out a, a song a day, a beat a day. Um and uh man, it didn't take me a lot of convincing it took because a lot of people told me about musically, a lot of people told me about musically and I was like, musically musically has been around for a while and once they had the brand changed to Tiktok um at this point I was like, at like year three or four listening to Gary. Um and you know, he, he knows this well now, but back then, man, I was dying to tell him he was the reason for why I got on Tiktok. Um it was, you know, it just made sense that every artist, he was speaking to, every conversation he had revolved around this new platform and I was like, what's going on right now? It was february of 2019. And um I took a look at it and the first thing that I realized was, wow, this is the most direct social media has ever been, this is the most transparent that we've ever had with a screen in front of us. Um and I really, really felt like I was, you know, living the lives of these people that were dancing in their living rooms and in in in there, you know, bathrooms are in in their questions. And so it didn't, it didn't take a lot of convincing for me once I figured out it was purple. Yeah. And and how is the rise of Tiktok impacted your career trajectory and like, just goals as a content creator, wow, man, I can't think, I can't.

Thank Tiktok enough, thank you Tiktok, everybody. That's how it supports me. I love you, I love you so much. I mean, it's changed my life, you know, it's changed the way that I've I've thought about many, many things from uh you know, how to how to communicate with my interpersonal relationships team, other, how to treat other people, how to, how to be in this world, how to communicate with my fans, um how, how I think about music itself, how I think about what music does. Um you can go deeper into there. I just think it's like a frequency and light thing right now, and it's it's beautiful. It's really, really, really beautiful to see how the worlds come together uh with, with the power of Tiktok and social. Um man, I'm forever in in depth to I'm a happy camper that's all and and tell us how collaborating with other creators contributes to your creative process. You know, as someone that creates beats, your collaboration possibilities are endless. It's pretty wild. So how does that contribute to your creative process? I am very

fortunate and I've said this for a

while to it's a double edged sword to be a beat boxer because on one hand, I might be the most interesting person in the space and kind of like, you know, what is going on? Who is that, What is he doing? Like on the other hand, it's very, very easy for me to collaborate because I've been doing this for so, so, so, so long. Um back on Youtube, I've private and all those videos, but I used to have a series called the Box Series and actually not a lot of people know about this and if you do wow, because it's like 10 years old, but I used to have something called like guitar, box, piano, box, electro, box wrapped, box, like poetry box, all these things that I used to get myself into as many places as I could when I was, because I realized the potential of beatboxing was so much more than what it was online. And I've just been I've been a collaborator for for for a while, when I got on Tiktok, what I realized was everyone's collaborating with each other. I got to get in this space and I got to make the right moves with the right people. Um let me know that let me get to know the community. Um let me let me figure out what what what they're doing, How are they doing it? So everyone was in Los Angeles at the time, I was going from Ramen bowl to Ramen bowl here just to you know, figure it out and I I set a goal and I don't know what happened man, but I counted it. Um and in a month I had over 50 collaborations And I was I just ran, it was like three a day or something, and I just ran, ran uh and just figure it out. And it got me, got me to think a lot more. It got me to understand that this world, you know, everyone wants to do, you know, the best version of themselves by themselves, right?

But you know, it's really about the people around you. It really is about how you connect with people too and how you every time that you connect like this right here, this connection right here, we're we're exploring so many different mediums that we wouldn't have if we wouldn't have this conversation. So this is a collaboration right here. It's a beautiful collaboration right here. And I I think collaboration is the way that, you know, the world goes around. We wouldn't we'd just be stuck on one ideas all the time. If it wasn't. So this always ends way faster than I wanted to and we're almost the time my whole entire comment section is asking they want to hear a beat. So you gotta throw us a beat live. I'm putting you on the spot. Give us a 32nd beat. Go for it just for you now now marketing, marketing for not you.

That is sick. That is incredible. Now, I know why they're putting you in netflix movies left and right. I love it. I'm thinking man, I'm thankful. I'm grateful. And I'm looking forward to what, what's coming? Awesome. I'm

looking forward to hanging in person. Thanks Spencer. That was amazing. I am dying over here. I am dying. Oh my God, but we have to get that in there. Can we use that in our opening video? Spencer will send you that check for a billion dollars. I'm going to get very right on that. I want

to see Gary. I

know Gary can do everything. Alright, okay, that's right. That's right. Thank you so much for joining us. You guys

have an amazing day.

Alright. You too. Alright, Ryan, we got another one for you, Michael lee. Hello, dancer, choreographer and social media personality. With how many followers? 51 million.

What's up, Michael. How you doing? I'm good. I'm good. Just woke up in like a few hours ago, um planning out my day, getting into the tons of meetings. A lot of back end stuff. Honestly good. Good, good. I love you on the west coast. Yeah, awesome. Well listen, let's jump right into it. You know, I love origin stories.

Tell me, tell me in a nutshell, how you became a, creator. Was it purposeful or was it by accident? Oh man, it was crazy. Yeah, so I started off in 2012 as a dancer um going to Shawn's Dance factory, um Hip hop studio in florida. Um And basically my whole life, I was kind of like always addicted to social media Youtube specifically and I was always in love with like the main creators, like when Youtube started, it was like Ryan Higa kept Jamba smashed, like all of those ogi Youtubers and it kind of showed me like, yo these people are like making livings doing, having fun, making videos and inspiring people and there it was so inspiring to me. So in 2015, specifically, that's when I was kind of like a little bit more into you know, dancing, I was starting to become a little more professional um posting their own videos and 2015, that's when I like decided I was like, all right, it's not a matter of how, it's a matter of when um I just gotta go for it, you know, like I learned that the main thing that differentiated I guess the top creators from like people who wanted to do it was like just how much grind they really put into it and um from there, I was like, all right, I mean like, you know, no one's perfect in this, everyone has their own thing and I think if I just keep going and I'm gonna figure it out and um That's pretty much pretty much what I did. I became the first uh social media, like one of the first social media dancers in the dance culture. Um, you know, kind of pushed through that and then I gained in that four years, about like 250,000 followers on like all socials. And then once Tiktok came back um, Uh, in 2019, that's when they really, really pushed marketing. Um, I had about 600,000 on on musically at the time. So when I hopped back on that first week, it was crazy. My friends were on it and they told me to hop on it like, yo, like this is, you know, it's doing well.

And I was like, all right, let me check it out. First week I hit a million followers and that was my first million any social. And I was like, whoa! And every week consistently after that I was just like literally all of my focus on every platform was erased and I just focused on the Tiktok and every week I was gaining consistently another million followers and I was like, this is crazy. I started telling you all my collaborations, all of my dance people, everyone that was around and I was like, yo this is the next vine because vine was like, I missed out on the vine opportunity. So I was like, I can't, I can't miss on this, this is like super important and just being on time with something like having this chance to be I guess, you know bigger than what you want to be. It's it's a it's a mix of like consistency, consistency and skill and and and you know hard work but the other part is also like timing and chance as well, you know, it was chance that this just kind of worked And and and I pushed through and months later I moved to L. A. With like 15, 20 mil and then like a few months later I moved my family out with me and then I just started the whole family brand thing and I haven't stopped ever since and now moving into the whole N. F. T. Space and getting into the whole web three point oh gaming space and and yeah, that's that's my whole nutshell, I love it, I love it.

So what Tiktok taught you was be early, go fast and you're doing it again with web three point oh right now with N. F. T. Fantastic. Tell me how do you think about mhm. When you create content for instagram versus Tiktok, what's the mentality there, is there a shift in mentality? How do you think about the two platforms differently? Yeah, I mean for instagram I'm honestly still figuring out how I can really manage my time with what makes the most sense. Um I mean instagram it kind of just looks like your portfolio, I'm like a little like more picky with how I want to create and like show and how I represent myself on instagram. So I'm honestly kind of figuring out, okay, like what, what works for me because everything works for different creators. Um for me it's more of like a specific style of dance videos and then um pictures, you know, if I were to post Tiktok's on it, which I do sometimes, um it doesn't do as well as I would expect, so, so it's kind of like a shift in and like, alright, what works because it's a different audience and from there, you just have to kind of tend to that specific audience based on the platform totally, you know, when you work with with brands, how do you prefer that they engage with you process wise? Do you prefer they lead the creative direction or not at all.

I prefer, I mean for me, I'm super creative, so I kind of know like, alright, this is gonna work for me, this is not gonna work for me, you know, like I can give you, and I, and I'll always try to advise and try to like put in my two cents of like, you know, like, you know, this is a good idea, but I also think like if we did it this way and we tweaked certain things, this could I feel more, I guess um natural to the viewer on Tiktok because a lot of companies that come into Tiktok, they just think, oh, we put in high production and do like this crazy, you know, things that should look like it's on tv is going to do amazing, which, you know, and then it doesn't really resonate because they're not really speaking to their target audience, they're speaking to kids, they're speaking the, these, you know, teenagers or kids that are watching and swiping through and then obviously they see something that's completely sticking sticking out like a sore thumb. It's kind of like, what, what is this, you know? So I try to kind of find the balance of like professional and natural. Um, and yeah, makes sense. And you know, obviously you, you do a lot of dance videos that, that was kind of the rise of how you following to begin. Do you ever test new styles or formats of content and if you do, how do you determine if it's a direction you should continue to go in knowing that, you know, you gained your audience from a very specific style of video to think about that. I definitely experimented a lot in the beginning, uh, in the beginning it was like the most experimental. I just, I did whatever I could and, and, you know, sometimes, and usually it worked out and mainly because I was just like thinking of ideas that other people didn't think of, I guess if that made sense. It was a lot easier also because the competition back then it was like, you know, way less. So that was another factor. But other than dance videos, you know, in my room or in my house, I started like, okay, what can I do to elevate this? Like, what do I love to watch?

Like, what's balls and what's crazy? I started going to walmart dancing on counters, dancing and escalators, you know, like in, in the mall, like that's that was the stuff that really started popping me off and I started making more skit, like vibes with the dancers. So not only was the the talent was was in the video, it was also the skit and the story behind it, like, oh, this guy started dancing, but not only that he jumped in the car. Oh my gosh, the guy out in the front of the car, he ran out and tackled him, you know, like, so it was like this whole skit idea of like making content with just dancing content to basically just bring it together. Yeah. Is that your son in the videos with you sometime? Oh no, that's my little brother. Yeah, I have, I have two little brothers and the and the little sister, you know, he can dance as well. Yeah, I mean, he actually, he actually took a pretty long hiatus. He started just, you know, playing a whole bunch of video games and you know, it was hard for me because I didn't have time to teach him anymore. So recently I actually put him now. He's in four times a week dance classes.

He has five times a week tumbling classes, like, like I'm really just kind of putting him into a whole bunch of stuff to keep them active and, and constantly growing and um, and yeah, that's pretty cool. I love it. We're gonna do a quick speed round of questions to get to know Michael. Alright, on rap, Disney plus or Netflix. Oh, testing first summer or winter, summer 80s or 90s music, nineties beach or mountains Beach Friends or Seinfeld friends, red wine or white wine. Hmm, Neither. I don't like mine, Kanye. Oh, drake and last one. Who is your favorite person to follow on Tiktok. Oh, hard one. Right for me. I think it would be its King Chris.

All right. All right, Michael, thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciate your time.

Of course, appreciate you guys. Michael,

let's talk N F T soon.

Yeah, that's right sneaking it in. Alright, Ryan, we've got Ellie Zieler up next. Ellie is a 17 year old content creator with 10.5 million followers on Tiktok. Nearly two million on instagram and a growing Youtube channel. I love L. A. That you combine all your passions, fashion, beauty and lifestyle to be able to create your content. You've done it with some pretty cool brands like Land com, Levi's amazon and a whole lot more. Welcome, welcome, thank you so much. I love those introductions. It shocks me every time when people say those things, how

you doing, Ellie,

I'm doing well. How are you?

Good. Thank you for joining us today. We appreciate it.

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.

Yeah. So you know, similar to when I was just talking to Michael, I, I really do love origin stories and I want to know in a nutshell, like how did you become a creator? Was it purposeful or was it by accident?

It was a little mix of both. So I grew up always loving film. I was always in film camps and in film classes and I loved Youtube and I would film and edit videos in my free time whenever I had free time and I would never post them because I also was in a very competitive school environment. And so I was an athlete and a straight a student and I had a nonprofit organization. And so I really did not have time to sit down and get to be creative. But when quarantine hit like for most people, we all had so much time. And I finally got to really dig in and find that creative side of myself. But it didn't initially start like that. So I started really how I feel like a lot of people know to talk to be in the past and in quarantine, which were these trending dance videos. And so I really started on there and I grew from that pretty rapidly. And then from there I really wanted to show people who I was and what I stood for and what I was interested in. And so I really knew that my followers loved me for me.

And so for example, instead of just doing a dense video in my sweats, like a lot of us were doing in quarantine, I would switch in some fashion and some makeup content and as well as being funny and serious and editing all things together. So people really got to know who I was, which is hopefully now

awesome, awesome. You know, you have a lot of engagement on your channel, you have a real community, which is amazing. How do you determine how many comments you're going to respond to on any given post any given day? How do you how do you make sure that you're walking that thin line between like engaging with the community and not wasting all your entire day responding to

comments? It's not only like wasting my entire day, but I could be scrolling and then I'll see a hate comment and it will just ruin the day as well. And so I really like to when I first initially post, I'll go through and I really like to respond to comments that have clearly watched the video and are asking me a question or telling me something about me something like that and I love responding to those. Um, I really have not really tried not to respond to hate comments. In fact, I really never respond to hate comments because I've really noticed that, um, it's really this attention kind of search for a lot of people. And so honestly, something that I've seen in a little life hack, if you're getting hate comments is when people do post something or comment something nice and you respond to those, a lot of people just want a response out of you. And so usually they go into the next videos and start commenting some love, but it's really easy to respond to people that you can tell, put thought into these comments and who really care and it's really, it's much easier to imagine a person behind the screen. So yeah,

I love it. And how has the rise of Tiktok impacted your career trajectory and goals as a content creator, obviously you said quarantine, you kind of had more time on your hands, you started creating. So this wasn't necessarily something that like

not in the plan. Yeah, right. No, this was not in the plan. Again, so happy that it turned out to be like this. But as I said before, I really grew up in this super competitive environment in California. And so I went to a really competitive high school and they taught us that if you didn't have A 4.5 and if you weren't the best athlete on your team and had businesses and nonprofits that you wouldn't get into college and ultimately, if you go to college you get a job, you become successful. And that was just the trajectory that I was put on to and that I feel like a lot of teenagers and kids in high school are put onto and with that I really suppressed my love of media and film and editing and there's just another whole creative side that no one ever got to see. And so um with quarantining with everything opening up, I really got to discover that creative side and this is really, I think social media and doing things by yourself instead of this trajectory trajectory, long term plan that people put you on Have really sped up the process for me, like I really felt like I was meant to do these things, but instead I'm getting to achieve all of these incredible things at 17 and 18 soon instead of maybe 25 or in my thirties when everyone told me I was going to

Yeah, it's funny. I I also, you know, I came out of school and it's a very similar way where people tried to tell you the right way to have success in life and the right path And finance was kind of where I was brainwashed where you had to go and I spent probably 5-7 years of my career in finance before, before pivoting to a completely different industry and you kind of just need to know in your gut when you need to go with it, when life puts you on a different path.

So it's really 100%. And I even, I had the idea where I was like, okay, I'm gonna grind it out and do these like specific jobs that I've only been taught and then maybe later in life when I'm older, I can get to do things that I'm actually passionate about. And so I'm so grateful that every day I get to do something that I genuinely, really enjoy and that people have taught me maybe in the past that you couldn't be successful with. But now everyone really has seen that there is a way,

there's a couple of people in the comments saying you hit a mean golf ball, is that true?

I do try to hit a mean golf ball. I mean that was the sport that a lot of people or that I tried on and so I was on varsity golf and I grew up playing golf. My brothers and dads dad are really into playing the sport. And so that was just another example of like me starting on Tiktok with trending dances and then like a few months later showing people what I really liked and enjoyed, which at the time was golf too, Thank you to whoever said that.

And when you think of instagram versus Tiktok, how do you think about creating content differently for these two platforms?

It's very interesting because I think that Tiktok and Youtube, you really get to show a different side of yourself and you really get to have people engage and have a real connection with you. Um instagram, I think it's more of this stage kind of platform that a lot of people have seen it as, and so I like to kind of show people that sensitive side of myself and show people how to get and achieve maybe a look or a makeup look or a fashion something and then get to um put that on the instagram platform,

yep. And do you try to collaborate with other large creators, is that something that you enjoy doing? That's part of your strategy in general of creating content, is it's not something you think about. How does it contribute to your creative process learning from other creators, all of that?

I think it's interesting because I do definitely, and I think a lot of people on Tiktok do learn from other creators, obviously Tiktok is really a trending platform. And so if you see other people doing a trend that I'm sure you're, you will want to participate in that trend. It's very interesting because I really have gotten to the point where I am um doing all of this from my parents house and I really have not collaborated with a lot of people again, I would love to and I think that, you know, I'm moving to L. A. In a couple of weeks. And so I'm excited to kind of start that journey. But also it gives me kind of this sense of all of these people that I've gathered up and that are following me are really following me for myself and not for anyone else. And so I think it goes one of two ways, but also super open to it and excited for that next stage two.

Is there one creator that you'd love to collab with? That someone that you're just like, I love their style. I'd love to collaborate with them. I'm putting you on the spot. They're

a little bit, Oh, that is putting me on the spot. I love, it's so interesting because I feel like with doing so many different things versus whether it's like cooking videos, golf videos, fashion, all of these different things. I have a favorite creator. I think in each category, the first one that comes to mind are like the fashion influencers that I love and so like Brittany Xavier and this girl who's like the rich mom where you go and I think it would just be cool to like read their closets and make some content and some videos.

Alright, speed round of questions, let's get alright, okay, Disney plus or netflix.


almond milk or oat milk,

almond milk,

vanilla or chocolate,


twitter or instagram


What was your first cell phone? Oh my gosh,

like the stage? I had an iphone, Yeah, like an iphone, I had like an ipod actually, I don't know. Anyway, an apple product.

Last one, Burger, Pizza, pizza, it's all the way. All right, Ali, thank you so much for joining us

today. We really appreciate it. So great. Thank you Ellie, thank you guys so much. We'll see you soon. Alright, We got the last one, Ryan last but not least we're gonna welcome the old days. We've got Robert and Mick and bill and just say, all right, they're all four


We love that. They're, they're navigating their golden years together. They've got 5.4 million followers on social media. Seven million views. We're already setting it straight. I'm gonna let them introduce themselves and we're taking

away Welcome guys, Welcome, Thank you for joining us today. Glad to be here. Thank

you. Hi,

I was very, very excited for this interview. So I'm glad you're here. And and the first thing I need to know is every obviously Tiktok everyone always labeled it the past couple of years is very much a gen Z platform. It was a platform. That was for younger folks. How did you guys start on Tiktok who told you about the platform. Why did you get on? I need to know the origin story. Well, it, it actually started with Ryan, our producer and last december. He had robert do just some silly things with the santa hat and coming into the door

and all that kind of



that's how it started. And then it just from there, it absolutely went through the roof. How do you guys know each other? What's the relationship over the years? We're neighbors. Really? Yes, yes. I lived catty corner to Mick and robert and we called bill down the hill bill, but I'm just like a, a minute's throw from each other. I love it. Were you on social media platforms together before Tiktok or was Tiktok the first time you came together first time? Okay, great. Yeah, I don't know.

Well We were on YouTube before we have about 50 videos on YouTube where we had about 55 million likes. I love it. All

right. And how do you guys

think about authentically engaging your audience on a platform? Like Tiktok, Are you guys mining the comments in order to see what the audience wants? Are you trying to play to like the different age groups on a platform? Like Tiktok? How do you think about authentically engaging them? We can't hear you Mick and robert for some reason. The, the audio, I have to tell you, we don't do any of that. Ryan does all that. And what makes us really authentic on Tiktok is the fact that when we go into a situation, we don't know what we're going into all of a sudden Ryan throws it at us and we answer and our and authenticity is really what makes us really, I think great. So you guys are real performers and entertainers that the truest form. I love it. And, and you know, how has the rise of Tiktok impacted your career trajectory?

How has it affected your lives? Just in general, It's given us a lot of love, tons of hugs and it's just been a good, we've stretched from it. These guys have stretched me so much into being myself and not worrying about what the world. I mean, not the world, but, but what people think because we're okay and we're loved and they realized that old gays aren't dead gaze. Absolutely have you had your moment yet where you've walked in public and people were like, oh, it's the old days from Tiktok. We were on our way to the Drew Barrymore show last year. We went through six different airports and we were recognized at every single airport and at Dallas fort Worth, they were lining up to take selfies with us and that, that was over the top. I mean, I've never had that kind of feeling before in my life. It was absolutely incredible. And even walking down the street also, it's just, it's just so fun to, to see people, even when you've got your mask on and they still know who you are. Yeah. I walked into trader joe's the other day went to the checkout counter uh, to buy my stuff?

I had my mask on and this checker said to me, she said, oh, how was your day? And I said, oh, I said, it's going good. She looked recent Tiktok. She just recognized me by my voice. She said, you're my favorites. I love it. I love it. Mick robert is the volume working this time or is it, I don't know. Can you hear us now? Yeah. Okay, Welcome guys.

Thank you.

So, so tell me is there, you know, as you've now started to work with different brands and brand partnerships, has there been a brand partnership that stands out in your mind that just works very seamlessly because they gave you certain creative freedom and it just, you enjoyed it a great deal. Is there one that stands out for you guys? Well, paul Roth, I can't remember um, working with that. They're, they're very gracious and sending us some wonderful stuff. I love it. I love it. And you know, do you prefer brands to engage with you. Bye bye. You guys leading the creative direction or do you like them to kind of give you explicit direction on what they think is going to work? How do you guys like to work with brands from that perspective? Well, I would say it kind of depends, sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't and we have to be creative. I really, you know, we defer to Ryan when it comes to that because he may say they say he may look at, you know, material that's coming in from what the uh the client wants and instead uh you know, let's say we say, well let's try something different.

You know, we're always looking for something that has a little bit of an edge here. And also that engages with, you know, our primary mark, which are the Tiktok viewers who are quite frankly, several generations younger than us. Yeah, I was gonna say you probably spans the gamut, you guys are probably one of the most from a diversity perspective, age groups, different demographics. I'm sure you have such a diverse demographic based that is following you, is that right? Yes, yes. And brian Graden that's working

with us says

that our appeal is we cut across all demographics, yep, that makes a lot of sense. Um All right, let me jump into a speed round of questions here guys. I wanna I wanna get to know the old gaze a little bit better. So, I'm gonna first go with the question, if you could travel back to blockbuster, what movie and snack would you choose right now? The snack would be popcorn, caramel popcorn. My snack would be milk duds, but and nick red vines. A lot of different choices there. Um Summer or winter, what do you guys prefer? Summer, Winter? Alright, 50s, 60s or 70s music, sixties,


seventies, seventies vanilla or chocolate chocolate, chocolate job, like friends or Seinfeld friends. Friends. Neither do I want to know from each of you who is the best music artist of all time. From your point of view. Patti Labelle is my love, Whitney Houston. I wouldn't know, I would say frank Sinatra and Bill Tina Turner. I love that guys, thank you so much for joining us today on marking phone now. We really appreciate your time.

That was incorrect. Oh, that was so fun. Ryan, I wanted to keep asking questions so you could have gone a lot. I think you could have kept that one

going All right,

We hope to see you in February. All of you. Please join us. We've got our next episode on 17 February from 12 to 1 pm. We're going to focus on the hot takes for 2020 to a mix of business speakers, as well as a couple of uh pretty famous inspirational authors. Um and we can't wait to continue the conversation. Hashtag marketing for the now. Let us know what you think. We should have on some of our future shows and check out any past episodes on MF tiene dot Vanner X dot com. We'd love to hear from you. See you soon