How Much Money Will Solve All Your Problems? (Hour 3) - Transcripts

March 17, 2023

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Dr. John Delony & George Kamel answer your questions and discuss: Can money buy happiness? Transitioning from intensity to intentionality "Is it selfish if I feel stuck as a stay-at-home mom?" "Should I sell my house after moving for work?" Support Our Sponsor: Neighborly Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Take our FREE 3 minute assessment: Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: Learn more about your ad choices. Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy


What is up? We are live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the pods, moving in storage studio. It's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work they love, and have incredible relationships. I'm John Deloni, joined here by my good friend, George Camel, basically half the Beatles, John and George, and we are taking your calls on money, life, whatever you got going on, work, relationships, marriage, mental health, whatever you got going on, we got an opinion, 888-825-5225. And George, before we go to the calls, I want to talk about this article that's out. How much money does it take to be happy?

That's a hot topic. Is this a hot take on a hot topic? It is. Well, we covered something similar on Smart Money Happy Hour, saying, is there a magic salary for happiness?

Is this a hot take on a hot topic? It's a great pitch to your own show.

Thank you. Thank you. You should go check it out. But this is actually based on data instead of opinions. So one study said happiness peaks at 75,000 in income. Now economists say it's higher by a lot.

By a lot. Yes. So I remember the data. That data has been around forever, and it's kind of become like a folk tale, right?

When I look at inflation, John, like 70 grand, you're poor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the vibe.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. So let's go through this. So it's higher by a lot. Tell me how much more.

New research from a Nobel Prize winning economist and fellow researchers provide a fresh answer. Money does appear to boost happiness, at least for some people, up to earnings of $500,000. Wow. Okay. I'm going to go with a yes on that one. So if you make $501,000, you might be miserable. You make $499,000, you're crushing the game. So this feels almost silly, John, because we went from 75 grand to half a million dollars. Right. Right. Because the idea was after 75 grand, you kind of plateau happiness wise. Right.

This is saying you plateau at 500 grand.

Right. It's not really accurate. And there is, I think this is important to note, there is a smaller group of people for whom higher incomes don't make much difference. For this unhappy group, which I think George is probably in this group, it's comprised of about 15% of people. The relationship between happiness and income is different, with additional money failing to improve their sense of wellbeing once they hit about 100 grand. And so there is just Eeyores, right? People who choose, and I use that word intentionally, who choose, I'm just going to become a grump, right? It's not going to help

anything, blah, it's just going to get the way it is. And we all know those people in our lives.

Right. Well, I see there's two groups of people. There's one group that legitimately doesn't make enough money to cover their bills and survive. So if you're in survival mode, you do need more money. I'm not going to act like, well, you can make any amount of money and be happy. Sure. That's true. We can go to villages in Africa and find joy that we could not find on any street corner in America. That is true. There's another group of people who actually make good money, but they have piles of debt and they're overspending and they're keeping up with the Joneses. They're not content with who they are. And no amount of money can fix that on one hand.

Or that dollar amount has become their scorecard for their self-worth. And it keeps moving. I have to make this $200,000 or I'm a loser and my dad's never going to tell me he's proud of me. And my wife's going to leave me. And then you get 200,000 and you realize, oh, my life is exactly the same way it was before I could just, I have a nicer toaster and a cooler blender. And then it

moves on you. Well, I need to make 300 and it just keeps moving and moving and moving. Well, and there's, there's also a piece of this where you go, if you make three, $400,000, you might have a very stressful job that might kill you early.

Yeah. I'll never, I'll never forget. That was one of the most important lessons I learned young. I had a mentor who allowed me to follow it, to shadow him in some, some pretty important meetings. And I remember leaving going, Oh, he makes way more than me. And he earns that money. Like his life is hard man. Cause just all the stuff he's responsible for. And so yeah, there's, they don't hand out two or three or $400,000. You got to work for that money and it's a hard life. But even then I like working really hard. I like working really hard.

I like working long hours and I like making great money, but I have to know that that is not going to, when I look in the mirror, I'm not, it's not going to give me peace. Right? What's going to give me peace is really extraordinary relationships, a great marriage, good relationships with my kids, right? Healthy balance with the seasons of work. Sometimes they're wild, but sometimes I get some more family time that's going to give me a peaceful life. And the more money you make, the more money you can give away. And we don't talk about that that enough, there is some extraordinary generosity

that happens with people who make great money, right? Well, and science shows that people who give are more joyful. That's right. They have lower blood pressure. That's right. They have less stress in their lives, they're more fulfilled. And so there's a lot of components to this, but I think the main teaching that I come away with is saying, if you're in debt, get out of debt and see if that increases your happiness, regardless of your income. Number two, find a career that you actually enjoy versus trying to aim at a certain number and going, I'm willing to do whatever job it takes to make 200 grand a year. You might be miserable. Right. And some people might be better off working for 50 grand a year doing something they love with no debt hanging around them. That's right.

That person can be way happier than someone making five XSAT. And if you are miserable at 75 grand,

chances are you're gonna be miserable at 250 grand. You go with you. That's right. And so if you don't actually dig into the roots of that and like your book, Own Your Past, Change Your Future, and dig into the trauma and the shame and the baggage and the reasons you're trying to do all this, then no money will be enough. And we see this data on this. People who make 250 grand are living paycheck to paycheck. So don't ever say to yourself, well, if I just made 250 grand, my life would be better. You might have lifestyle creep. And you might then get the nicer car. That's right. And the nicer house, because now you have to keep up. That's right.

And so there's a lot of lessons to be learned here, but what I always go back to is the baby steps work, regardless of if you make 50 grand or 300 grand, living debt free and having an emergency fund in the bank will give you a happier life. And that's one component. You still have to have good relationships, good community, have a job that you enjoy that doesn't add stress to your life. So we don't want you to have a flat tire in any specific area of life.

You gotta be well-rounded. And you might then get the nicer car. That's right. Yeah, well, I love that this folklore, this myth has been busted, right? And I also love that we can have a conversation. And getting to a number and thinking that's a finish line is just not how the life works. It can help, it can help. And I think it's good that we can now be a little less dishonest, if you will. 200,000 bucks can solve a lot of problems. It can make your life easier, but it won't, your dad's not gonna call you. If he hadn't called you yet, he's not gonna call you and say, you know what, now that call's not coming, right? You're not gonna have a dysfunctional marriage and suddenly your wife's gonna go, ah, there we go.

Now it's better. It's just not how that works, right?

You know what, that call's not coming, right? Now it's better.

It's just not how that works. So let me ask you this, George. Instead, I was gonna take another call, but I'm not gonna do that. Smart man. On Smart Money Happy Hour, with this particular conversation,

what kind of feedback did you get? Well, the comment section was spirited as usual, John. One person said George's comedy is underrated. I appreciate that. But a lot of people said, you know what, that's true, because they've realized that their income is one factor, it's one piece of the equation. We say your income is your greatest wealth-building tool. We don't say it's your joy-building tool. Or it's your purpose tool. Yeah, exactly. And so it's one piece of the equation. When we get our money right, it allows us to look up and focus on relationships and sleep better at night. Which then gives us a better life.

So get your money right, and that's the foundation you can use to fix the other areas.


Or it's your purpose tool.

It's your purpose tool. Yeah, exactly. Hey, 88825-5225, this is the Ramzies show, Be right back triple eight eight two five five two two five. This is the Randy show. Let's go out to Sam I am in Little Rock. What's up, Sam? What's up guys? How are we doing? Doing very well? How are y'all outstanding outstanding? What's up? So I'm looking for wisdom on you called the wrong show my brother


So wrong that I immediately busted out laughing at the sweet. All right, sweet. Oh uh, yeah, you know, my wife and I have been paying off debt for about 14 months and Next week when our paychecks hit we're done with debt. Whoo. And the week after that when my bonus hits We're done with baby step three. Yeah. So yeah, I'm just looking for that the mindset that you know Y'all had when when you got done paying off debt, right? Like what does that look like?

Well, we say you move from intensity to intentionality once you hit baby step four And so there's not a lot that changes as far as your habits of you're still on a budget You just let your foot off the gas as far as you know Working three jobs because you had to to get to safety you made it to shore And so now the goal is how do we start building towards the future instead of paying for the past and there's a lot of things You can kind of put on autopilot like 15% into your retirement at that point that that can be an easy thing to do It can also be really hard because you now want to use that money, but it still has an allocation It still has to go somewhere and go to work for you. But now's the time to actually go Okay, what are some spending goals we have we haven't been able to do that for a while. Where do we want to go on vacation? Hey, it's time to upgrade that car Let's do that home renovation and cash flow it and so that's where you sit down with your spouse and really start to put those Goals on paper and make that a part of your daily monthly yearly routines

so one of the things I've seen people do Sam that helps them be successful is It's so wise that you're thinking through this now. Usually what happens is people become debt-free They scream and yell and jump up and down in the living room they wake up the next morning and their lives are exactly the same there's how many bills next month and Then they kind of go bananas They go crazy and they don't maybe don't go back into debt But they kind of blow the budget and just go out to eat and go bananas and then they start to figure like oh crap What do we got to do? You got you guys are a couple months ahead of that here's where you get to do and I want you to shift from survival to fun. I would love for you and your wife to go out and have a long really really nice dinner, like an obnoxious one, and with the intention of, what do we want our lives to look like in the next two to three years and what do we want our lives to look like in fifth let's just dream and be silly about it we want a house here and we want the east wing to look like this like let's start dreaming not just surviving together. And then what you do is you sit down and say, Okay, here's what it's going to take to get there. And some of these things are silly. Some of them are real. And we're going to begin to build a path that's going to get us there. But now we're building a path looking forward, we're not just running through the night to not get eaten by a lion. You see the difference there? Yeah, I do. Here's what's really important.

You have to intentionally change your identity. Our identity was, we are a couple who will do whatever it takes to get out of debt. of debt and if you don't go through some sort of ritual, if you will, to change your identity, one of you is going to hang on to that identity and the other one's going to get really fed up and frustrated that they can't buy new shoes and then you're going to have this weird angst in the house. You're not going to know where it's coming from. It's because you got two competing identities in the same marriage, and so let's turn our identity. Who do we want to become now? Do we want to be wild generous people? Do we want to have our kids pay half of their college or a hundred percent of their college. Do we want to pay our house off. Now, we can just start dreaming about whatever comes next in. It's incredible. You guys can make that turn?

Yeah. That makes sense. When you're looking at like, you've fund money, all that, are you taking, are you making separate pots of money for that? Like I just I just haven't had it.

It just becomes a line item in your budget. It just becomes a line item in your budget. So it's Sam's fund money, there's an entertainment, there's a vacation sinking fund, we save up five grand for that trip six months from now. And so that's all it becomes and I have different areas that you can Do three things with money, give it, save it, spend it. I like to do it in that order. So set giving goals that's gonna come off the top, set some savings goals. We're gonna invest 15%. We're gonna save up for the car. We're gonna say for the vacation and then have some spending goals. And go, all right we're gonna spend some money this month. We're gonna set 500 bucks to go to eat because we just haven't been able to do that. We got to catch up on all the new restaurants in Little Rock, whatever it is for you guys.

But doing that helps me feel grounded and not like I'm leaning one way too much. Because some people go, I have to save, save, save, save, save. I can't spend a dime. Dave said, no, Dave didn't say that. He said live like no one else. So later you can live and give like no one else and it's time to start leaning into the ladder.

I think I would maybe do it for a couple of months at a time, Sam. I just said two to three years, maybe say, hey, we're gonna spend two months and we're just gonna go to some restaurants. We're gonna eat out because we haven't done that in so long and we're just gonna enjoy some of these restaurants. What you will find is it will be nice and cool And you're going to look forward to going back to eating at home. And you're gonna like somebody else doing the dishes and it's going to feel good to have somebody else clean up after you. And then you're gonna get tired of the 50 and 60 and $70 bills, just at regular old restaurants these days. And you're gonna say, I'd rather go back home, right? And so it's just, but do it, do it. Just here's the key, just make sure you budget for it. Just put it in the budget and this will be wonky. Okay. Just be, if you'll have an argument, you get frustrated.

It's like, oh, I had my eye on this guitar and she's like, well, I had my eye on you, never buying another guitar. Expect those things to happen. That's just marriage, it's just life. That's two people doing life together, but you're not broken and something's not wrong. It's just about turning the corner and changing identities together which, dude, I just think that's going to be a blast, man. It's going to be a blast. Alright, let's roll out to Holly in Davenport. What's up Holly?

How are we doing? Hey Dr. John, hey George. It's good to talk to you guys.

It's great to talk to you too.

How are we doing? Yeah. Speaking of changing identity, I am a new stay-at-home mom, and I'm just kind of lonely and isolated. Yes. You know, I worked for 20 years before my husband and I had kids, and I'm about a year into this thing, and it's just, like I said, kind of lonely, isolated, and I'm just selfish. It would be very selfish of me to spend my kids' daycare so I can, you know, go work. We don't need the money. I need to be here with my kids, but I want to find happiness in it. I want to find joy in it, and I just can't.

I just haven't been able to. Man, if you were in front of me, I would ask you if it was okay to give you a hug, because this is one of the most common conversations I have across the country, and it's the opposite. I have the opposite conversation as well. I can't stay at home, and I feel like I should. I should be at work. I want to be at work, and I feel like I got to be at home. Then my kids do something crazy, and then I think mean thoughts like… I wish my kids would stop smearing crap. Then I feel guilty for having these thoughts, and so I want you to understand you've entered in… You've been in it for a long time, but you are continuing into the vortex that is modern Western world that is built on a guilt factory for mothers.

I should, you can't, you can't get judgment on either side and opinions from

the other moms. Yes. Yes. And you're going to get opinions from yourself.

That's the issue that I'm having. I can care less about the outside world. Honestly, I think maybe some of the issue too is that I don't really have community. I don't have a lot of friends. My family doesn't live here.

I think that is key. Here's two things I think are key. Number one, I think you thought it would feel different. If I make this huge sacrifice, the reward that I'm going to quote unquote feel inside is going to be worth it. And that feeling is not there, but you, but you did get a great feeling from being really good at your professional job and getting a paycheck deposit in your account and getting, getting attagirls from your, from your coworkers and your supervisors. That felt awesome. It was built in validation every day. It doesn't feel often when you make it a great meal and your kids are like, I don't like this. This is gross. Or Timmy pushed me. And you're like, how about I push you off? You know?

So number one, you have to, every time you have those feelings, just call them out. I thought this was going to feel differently. And I feel like I want to karate chop somebody. I'm not going to, but I feel it. The second thing is you nailed it. You got to get a group of women in your life. And that's the hard, weird, ugly, annoying part. It's almost like dating again, except harder. You got to make a choice to get some women in your life. Tessa Romero. Check her out on Instagram. Tessa Romero.

She's great with mom, new mom's mindset shift. She's awesome. And make it a point to get some friends. You're worth it.

This is the Ramsey show. We'll be right back. It doesn't feel every day.

It doesn't feel often. Hey, what's happening? This is the Ramsey show. I'm John Deloney joined by my good friend, George Camel. And on the debt free stage, we have Anna and Isabella and Nicholas. What is happening? Hey.

Happy to be here. How are we doing? Good. All the way,

all the way from the great state, the only country that matters. Texas. That's right. Very cool. All right. So you're here from Texas and you're doing your debt free screams.

How much did we pay off? I paid off $38,473.

$38,470. Um, making how much?

So I started with $54,000 and ended at $98,000. Whoa. Is that just you? Yeah. Just me. What do you do? So I work for say I have two sales for power distribution equipment. And the first year of my debt free snowball, I did Uber and I sold cookies and I also sold everything.

That's a lot of cooking. Is that just you? Yeah. Just me. What do you do?

That's a lot of you had a third kid and they've gone too. Yeah. It's gone. Yeah. It's gone. So how long did it take to pay this off?

21 months. Amazing.

Whoa, so you got after it, after it, after it. Whoa.

Yeah, especially the first year.

So what kind of debt was the 38,000? It was credit cards, car, AC repairs, some chairs, and- Some chairs?

Yeah, my dining chairs. Wow. Come on. Was that because of like, it's a 0% or was that you were so broke, you're like, I gotta get chairs and put them on the car? Like, how did that work?

Come on. It was a really good deal. Ah. That's such a good deal. Thank you for the honesty. It was after my divorce, so I needed chairs. Mine were falling apart and so I got them on like PayPal for payments. So it took me a few months and it took a few months for the chairs to get here too.

Thank you for the honesty.

Such a good deal. Alright, 21 months ago, you were sitting by yourself in Montgomery, Texas and you've got these two kids and they're sleeping and you've got your head in your hands and you say it's time.

Tell us about what happened. Yeah, so my debt free snowball started in 2021, but I heard about the snowball in 2017 or 2019. I was still married and we had, we were so normal. We had all the debt, all the credit cards and every time we would get a chunk of money at bonus, taxes, whatever, we would pay off a credit card and then we would start paying off the other and by the time we got paid off the other, we already racked up on the one that was just paid off. You collected some more. So it was a vicious cycle. And then I remember sitting down that year, 2017, 2018, and I just Googled how to pay off credit cards because I was raised to never use credit. And so I was raised to live on this and I make on saving money. That's insane, Anna, it's insane. And I went to college debt free too. Like I worked my part off, but somewhere along the way, we started racking off that and I wasn't taught how to like pay it off. I mean, I didn't know, you know, we had so much debt.

It just seemed impossible. So I remember sitting down in my dining table. On the dining chairs. No, no, no, this was before that, I was married, yeah.

And so, but I wanted to just pay off, right?

That's insane, Anna. On the dining chairs. No, no, no, this was before that.

I was married, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it was on me now to figure it out. And so I just Googled how to pay credit cards and it was all this, you know, debt consolidation, move your credit cards to this card and duh, duh, duh. And I was like, that makes no sense. And a few pages, you know. It took that far to get to a Ramsey link. It took like two or three pages to get to Ramsey and all I said is like, snowball. And I read it and it makes sense. And so I presented it to my ex-husband now and nothing happened. We just kept living the way we were living. And then 2020 happened. And my marriage was falling apart and I lost my job.

Oh no. And then my dad passed away. And so in the summer of 2020, I filed for divorce and I got a job,

the job that I have now, you know.

It took that far to get to a Ramsey link. On US sales, so I just knew that this kind is the limit. And I started with a base salary and then it just went up from there, but it took a while. And so I filed for divorce and three months later, it was finalized. And on paper, you know, like in my head, I could afford things. Like I could afford my house and I could afford, I changed my cars, I downsized and I was totally okay with that. But in my head, I could afford my house payments and groceries and just the basic things and even the minimum payments on my credit card. And then I couldn't. And so things in those six months between my divorce being finalized and when I started,

there were weeks where I had like $8 to my name.

That's terrifying, right? It is, yeah. So you went from an emotional crawl to a financial sprint. Yeah.

And how do you even do that? It is, yeah, yeah. I'm just, that's just the kind of person I am. I go from zero to 100 in like no time, so. You're a hero. Okay, so what does it feel like now? It's great. I love it.

Like I'm never going back, I. You're a hero. Okay, so what does it feel like now? Whenever you go home and you watch the clip of this, I want you to watch your body language because when you tell your story about, your body remembers your marriage falling apart, your dad passing away, your whole body shrinks. And then just asking you, how does it feel now? It's like somebody turned all the lights on in the lobby out there, man. Yeah, I mean.

It's amazing. Yeah, I mean, I tell everyone, like don't stop living the way that you are because everyone I know is normal. And, you know, I did like a no spend February because I was like, I'm tired of this. And I remember I had $300 and I was like, oh my gosh, this is awesome. I have $300 without even having a budget. And then I downloaded every dollar app in March and I kind of toyed around with that, going back to my bank statements like December, January, and even February. And I set my budget and April, it was on and. How did you get these two little ones to follow with you? Oh, I mean, if I did Uber Eats, they were in the car with me.

Oh, fantastic. So they got to see mom.

Hey, you have given them a legacy shifting gift because they're never going to forget that. In college, someone's going to offer me like, hey, let's just go get a credit card and you're going to be like, I remember driving around with my mom.

And I wasn't shy about talking to them about the money problems. I mean, I didn't burden them, but I did share like, no, we're not doing this because we're going to do this. We did go to birthday parties, but instead of bringing the flashy gift, I brought like a token for frozen yogurt and a handmade card and a handmade bag or whatever. And so that's how they contributed. And it was a lot of no's.

Oh, more and a handmade card and a handmade. More is caught than taught. And what they caught from watching mom be a hero is going to sit with them for the rest of their lives. I hope so. That goon on the college campus going, here's a credit card and a free pizza. He's going to stick on that guy and be like, no. Absolutely. I saw my mom fight to get over this.

But I also need you to know this. There are millions of single parents watching this right now and they can't breathe. And they got two little kids and their world's falling apart. And the mom calls and says, dad's not doing well. And you have single-handedly shined a light in a really dark moment. We can all sit up here and talk. And they're like, oh, it's real easy for you guys to say. And Anna, you've taken away the darkness in so many lives

by just saying no more, no more, no more, no more. Yeah. I hate the spotlight, but the fact that sharing my story and I know that there's a single parent out there, mom or dad. Lots of them. That are going through this and they don't see the light and I didn't see the light. You're an inspiration. And all you need is a process. And it works.

Lots of them.

You're an inspiration. Isabella and Nicholas, your mom's a gangster. You know, never to mess with her, correct? Oh, yeah. Excellent.

That's awesome.

Oh, yeah. Excellent. That's awesome. We've got the live and give box for you that includes the Total Money Makeover of course, Baby Steps millionaires. Your next chapter in your story and a year of Financial Peace University so that you can kickstart someone else's journey.

Thank you.

Thank you. You can give it away. All right, so we've got 38,470 bucks paid off in 21 months making $54,000 to $98,000 from the ashes, the Phoenix Rose. And here she is standing before us, paid us all off. It's time to do your debt free screen.

Let's let it rip. Ready? Ready? One, oh no, three, two, one.

We're debt free.

Awesome. I wish my mom was that cool back then. You know?

What a hero. I love, my favorite part of the show is debt free screams, especially the excuse busters. Yeah, but I have, yeah, but I have,

yeah, but I know Anna. Nothing's stopping her now. I know Anna. Not with her finances, not with her career,

not with nothing. If you know Anna. If you are listening to this, no one can stop you either if you just say today's the day. This is the Ramsey Show. Today's scripture for today is Matthew 5, 14 through 15. You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead, they put it on its stand and get, and it gives light to everyone in the house. Brene Brown says, numb the dark and you numb the light. Numb the dark and you numb the light. I love that, love that, love that.

All right, let's go out to Richard in Jacksonville, Florida.

What's up, Richard? Hey, how's it going?

Outstanding, how are you? Doing great. So basically, so I've been kind of following Dave Ramsey since 2013, where I actually read his book. I'm in the Coast Guard, and actually that's when I got introduced to it. Very cool. My dad got me the book, and I've been kind of following those baby steps as best as possible. My question to you all is, we're about to PCS over to Puerto Rico, and we live near Jacksonville, Florida, and we're not sure if we should be selling our house or renting it. We do owe a little bit on it, but it is mostly paid off. We know that we could sell it for 300,000 or about 300,000 and or rent it out for about $2,000 a month. We owe 76 on it at a 2.87% conventional loan, and we bought it for 215.

So basically in three years, we get it down to 76. Way to go.

So how long are you gonna be in Puerto Rico? It's gonna be for three years, and our housing and utilities are gonna be included because we're gonna be government housing. So we don't have to worry about any payment. So basically I can get straight to step six because I won't have no house if I were to sell. However, it could be an income stream, especially with the low interest rate, and I'm totally against that. I don't have any other debt.

So this is pretty much what I'm working with. So I'm gonna answer you what I would do if this is just my family, and George can give you a more numbers-driven answer. I would not want to be a landlord on the other side of the world, and I know other side of the world is relative here, but I would wanna be a landlord one state over when dealing with a company that's gonna come in and manage the property, or when the air conditioner goes out, or the dishwasher leaks and causes sub-Florida, I just wanna deal with that. I'd much rather have cash in a, just a regular money market account if you will. Let it sit there, throw it in a Vanguard account for a few years and just let it sit so that when we come back to the states and quite honestly, Puerto Rico's incredible, if you come back to the states, then you can buy a place when you come back. Would you for sure be stationed

back in Jacksonville when you came back? No, so it will actually likely not be back in Jacksonville. I'd for sure so, I'm actually from Puerto Rico. That's home for me but it'll probably be, who knows, likely probably Washington DC is my guess.

Okay, buy for sure. Yeah, then I'm selling and here's another option for you, Richard, if you do sell it, let's say you net 200 grand. Is that fair to say after fees? If you just park that 200 grand in a high yield savings account, which right now we're tracking at about 4%, you would make eight grand a year, guaranteed. And so when you look at renting this place out, even for two grand, you still have expenses, property management, you've got to pay the mortgage, you may not even net the eight grand in a year. And so I'm taking the hassle factor out of here, knowing you're not going to come back, I'm going to sell it. And I know your word because the interest rate is so good, but you're going to be in a different place when you come back financially, emotionally, mentally, physically where you're located. So I'm selling this thing if I'm in your shoes.

Absolutely, does this sound good?

Let's see, sounds like a very straightforward answer.

There you go, that's all you get. I know it sounds so cool to be like, I'm a landowner and I've got a rental property back it, it's free money but man, it feels really good

of a couple hundred thousand dollars in a bank account too. I mean, especially with the interest rates right now and savings accounts. Yeah, they're doing all right. You can do better there than you can dealing with a renter

when you've got a mortgage on the place. They're doing, they're doing.

Hey, when's the last time you were excited about a Monday? Can't remember.

Oh, that was rhetorical. That was rhetorical. What if instead of waking up exhausted, you felt exhilarated. You can't wait to get to work because it's another day to fulfill your passion. In a world where there's bare minimum Monday and there's quiet quitting, it's clear people are craving meaningful work but finding the career you were born to do can be difficult when you don't have the right tools. That's why career expert in Ramsey personality, Ken Coleman created the Get Clear Career Assessment to help you discover your top talents, passions and a clear mission statement that'll help you find the work the world needs you to do. After taking the quick assessment, you'll get a custom report with everything you need to take that first step towards a meaningful career. Go to slash get clear to start your journey and take the Get Clear Assessment today. That's slash get clear. All right, let's go out to Salt Lake City, Utah and talk to Carlos.

What's up, Carlos? Hey, not Carlos. That's you, man. I'm John. What's up, dude? I never thought I would be on the show. So I'm big fans of you guys. I have a question. So me and my brothers, we own a plumbing and HVAC business

and we're having a little issue with pay.

So we're able to pay ourselves and our company like during our busiest years between May all the way to probably around November. And we did 1.1 million, but the slow season December, January, February and March we're like, we're barely swinging by. We lost one employee cause we couldn't keep them that busy. So my question is, is should we just take out like a line of credit to pay ourselves and can we still gotta pay our mass performer and we have to pay accountants and we still gotta pay truck payments. We have, I think one or two truck payments.

Carlos, hold on, hold on. Do you have enough work? Are y'all making enough money?

You have enough business cashflow to pay your bills.


Do you have any debt on the business currently? The only thing that we have is two trucks on there.

We have a loan for two trucks.

What's that amount to?

That amounts to 18,000. Okay. I don't think the solution here is to go into debt to keep the business afloat and that problem is gonna continue compounding. The better solution is to figure out either how do we have enough revenue to cover those months that were down or even better, how do we find even a different line of work where we can make this sustainable December through March to bring in some revenue?

But I would not take a line of credit to pay yourselves. If you do that, brother, you are digging a hole that one slow month will bury you, man. You end up having to sell a truck to make the line of credit payment

and you're gonna find yourself in a mess. It will eventually tank your business to go this route. So I'd actually go to the root of the problem and fix that which is we gotta figure out how do other businesses create revenue

December through March? Is that you?

Are those the months that you're struggling?

Is that you? Yes, so December through March, the end of April is when we start getting a little bit busy. It starts getting a little warmer. So yeah, that's usually our busiest season.

So here's what I would recommend I do, Carlos, I would recommend you take two or three guys in Salt Lake City who are plumbers that you trust that have been doing this for a while, Take them out for coffee, just business owner to business owner, and say, hey, what do you guys do between December and April? Just asking you straight. Like we're running slow and the annoying word here is vulnerability. It's getting a couple people you trust and just saying, hey, times are rough these four months and we're starting to think about other ideas for revenue streams during these months. What does that look like for y'all? And some of them will laugh at you at some moments. So you just take out a line of credit. All right, cool, great. Those are off the table for me. What's another idea? And then you're gonna get to some really ingenious ideas. Small business owners are some of the most creative people

in the world because they have to be, right? I know landscaping companies that hang up Christmas lights

during the wintertime because they can't mow lawns. And they rake leaves and they pick up sticks. And they'll make great money doing that. Exactly, but it's a way to just keep the thing going over time. So Carlos, the bottom line here is, don't put your small business in further jeopardy by tying its success to a bank. You don't need any more voices in there, man. Sit down with some folks, get some ideas, sit down with your team and get some ideas and let's roll forward. Hey, that's it for the Ramsey Show today. I wanna thank James and Ben and Eboo and the crew out in the booth. And I wanna thank you, America, for listening to the show. George, great show. Good times, man.

You're getting better at this. Appreciate that. Appreciate you. And everybody listen and take care of each other. Be kind and let that person on the highway next to you, let him over. The whole world will be better for it.

We'll see you soon.

And they'll make great money doing them. Hey, it's Dr. John Delmilani. If you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey baby steps, go to and click on the Get Started button. We'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation.

That's and click Get Started. Hey, it's James, producer of the Ramsey Show. This episode is over, but check the episode notes for links to products and services you heard about during this episode. Thanks for listening.