How To Get Away From Using Credit Cards (Hour 3) - Transcripts

November 23, 2022

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Dave Ramsey & Kristina Ellis discuss: Moving from credit cards to cash, Pulling from a Roth IRA to pay off student loans, Knowing what baby step you're on. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: Learn more about your ad choices. Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy


from the headquarters of Ramsey solutions broadcasting from the pods moving and storage studio it's the Ramsey show cash is king all home mortgage has taken the place of the M. W. as a status symbol of choice we help people build wealth do work that they actually love and create real amazing relationships this is a show about your life in your money Christina Alice Ramsey personality is my coach today the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five jobs in Lansing Michigan to start off this hour Hey Joe what's up

they Davis honored to speak with you

you too how can we help

so I'm a little nervous to say the stock today ram himself but I typically use credit cards for all my day to day transactions I know

I know

I'm actually wanting to switch over to cash but every time I do switch to spending with cash it seems like actually spend more even if I do stay within my budget for example if I'm like at the grocery store and I have save fifty dollars left in my budget towards the end of the month if I'm using cash and it's sitting down my envelope I'll go grab a couple steaks maybe add that you know case of beer something where the finding and using a credit card already knowing that I've racked up four hundred Bucks on this month's statement it really keeps me away from you know spending that little extra money in making that statement hurt that much more when it comes in the mail so my question is basically how can I kind of get over that mental hurdle and switched using cached on to do business with people like me is a master card


well the the principle of this whole thing the old out grandma's old envelope system if you have a grocery envelope and you have the money for your grocery budget in the envelope you can't spend that money on anything except groceries and you can't spend


you know it's all in in when it's empty you quit buying and so your problem measure ending up with money left over which means you might be over funding the envelope


you might be over it might be over funding the category but the overall idea behind the thing is and is that we figured out years ago at Ramsey that personal finances eighty percent behavior in someone we can do things like create friction they create rec mental and emotional recognition of spending then it tends to lower and control spending within a category so for instance a more sophisticated version of that is on our website if you have to click too many times in do too many hoops to bike to make the purchase people will buy along the cart

yeah I've done that played jump

because there's too much friction the opposite end of that is Amazon prime you click buy now it's on your porch and an hour to you know and so that's the ultimate in low friction the situation but

what we

what the research tells us sent a research done by MIT is that when people spend cash it activates the pain centers of the brain when you spend plastic it does not

yes I heard you say that

yeah but it's not it's not your it's not working with you for some reason I don't know what's wrong with your brain but so I don't care I don't care what I would tell you to do if you want to is switch to a debit card not a credit card and that is coming out of your checking account and that way there's no chance that you accidentally overspend a category in and up in that and then if you want to do that that's fine years ago I did that for instance with the gas pump when I started teaching this you still had to go inside the store to pay for your gas that I mean this thirty five years ago right and I'm not and then they put those things at the pump where you don't have to walk inside and you stick your card in there and you know what's interesting is the upheaval on high gas prices when you had to walk in the store and pay cash the political Spyer storm was much higher because people notice what they're paying but when you don't have to walk inside and you just put your card in there and the only aggravation is it usually a large number but that's the only thing then the political firestorm research of high gas prices isn't as high because they're restoring the president up the first time I went to five dollars we all paid cash now it's just kind of like it was one of those things and so but that's what's going on so I would use your debit card Christie got suggestions

yeah I'm curious you said that you walk into the grocery store sometimes with fifty dollars and then go get some stakes in a case of beer that sounds like more than fifty dollars have you had experience



cheap steak or you eat

have you had experience when you get to check out and it's more than the fifty dollars what kind of man

your parameters not I met one of the other not both at the same time the over fifty dollars

went up but not them

my default setting is very frugal I'm well under my needs as it is I maybe I'm just you know get internet picky about it but yeah all

no I think I think you know what we're masters you don't get are you you're you're very seldom are overspending before you met us


and so all we're doing is giving you some guidelines as a mechanical processes show

yet what baby step are you in right now

I guess technically I mean six but I'm doing more than the fifteen percent in my retirement

that's awesome

yeah very good it'll feel like I'm in section I still feel like I'm a young and

you know what you need to buy more stuff you're too cheap you need to enjoy some of your money

you really don't have any do enjoy still I mean

I know I'm thinking you know what you have let some leftover did more about steak I mean so I want you to enjoy some of your money a little bit at the grocery store that's okay and you don't have to be on beans and rice at this stage and so here's the thing a lot of people most people that we deal with spenders in our culture but occasionally run into a frugal person like you and


all have to learn all three we have to develop all three money muscles the generosity muscle that saving investing muscle and the spending months on the spending muscle means and why spending but doing something we're doing joint money we have to save and invest it we have to be generous if you're not doing and frugal people tend to leave that one off and spenders tend to not do either one of the other ones because I just spent a long shelf but but that that's what we run into

I don't think that he expected such an affirming response after calling about credit cards

well there is that yeah I would chop up the credit card for sure and get a debit card that's not a question and you know we're


anti credit card here they're just all so many things that can go wrong with the use of a credit card in the the debit card will do everything the credit card it has the same fraud protections I travel all over the world my debit cards I don't have any issues with them they're in if you don't have your credit card all of us get the fraud alert you know sometimes and


you know no listen did you buy three dollars worth of gas in Canada new


so something wrong there that well get those things right but but but you know it so I carried debit cards as all I carry our company has debit cards hundreds of them with our you know our team that travels and everything else and so and they use cash as well we don't have a company credit card at Ramsey none of us do and we don't even have and I certainly don't have any at home although Christina full disclosure after thirty years of doing this I'm still trying to get Sherin to call it a debit card Chicago she still says hand me the credit card after thirty five years helping people not to use a credit card my only wife is a traitor no no she actually knows what it was she just forgets she's like give me the credit card number now don't say that while they are here you are sure to frigging Ramsey that'll you'll start a rumor the whole reddit thread over you this is the Ramsey show the personality number one bestselling author is my co host today J. W. is with us in Atlanta hi J. W. how are you

okay the Harley all

better than we deserve Sir how can we help

so I just started listening to you about a month ago I've never really known about sharing dying and I'm trying to figure out how much of a stupid but I am not I'm not what Davies but I'm more on which way I should be focusing my gives L. intensity I'm kinda lost at the moment and I don't really know which way to go

well tell us about your situation right now do you have how much debt do you have

the only debt that I have at my house I've never found a credit card and I've never bought anything on Aqib Faisal

Khan well that sounds like a good start tell you may know a stupid but Milan but you're not one of them okay so we've already got that idea right

but I am curious why why do you think you're making stupid but decision

well I mean some of what you guys sorry as you know I'm always just kind of done and also common sense or what I believe god's government saying I'm not the smartest guy in the world so I'm trying to figure out

well the only difference is how you spell it

I know that you guys normally promote in off all your debt before you start putting money into your four oh one K. or log on to your house college phones

I'm not counting your okay what's your how to get your free except your house you said right

yes Sir okay and I bought my house about five years ago about another five years and it'll be tied off

how old are you

thirty days

why did god do


want it

yeah that's nice yeah excellent so you would be in baby steps four through six right now which it sounds like you're investing right now how much you're investing into retirement

thirty percent of my paycheck in my R. A.

okay well we typically recommend fifteen percent of your income and then baby step five is paying for your kids college do you have kids

yes I am

okay so we want you saving a five twenty nine plan and then paying off your house early which it sounds like you're already really motivated in doing that you could you could just increase that a bit take some of that thirty percent take fifteen percent of that and throw that towards your house but you're doing

awesome okay

yeah the only

fine tune we might does turn down your retirement a little bit down to fifteen make sure you're doing something for your kids if you're not already and dump it all in house so the house might be done in like three years

all at a great because it stresses me out later on

and then if it was done in like three years instead of five years because you're only putting fifteen percent return instead of thirty you follow me if that happens


then you would be at what we call baby step seven and when you're there that's the last baby step that's just build wealth and given you Max out all retirement and a U. Pollock cash in your outrageously generous and you and

you know

you've lived like no one else and now you're ready to live in give like no one else

man I will say J. W. surprised me when he said stupid but decisions I was ready for something juicy


think you might be the color of the week no no you just you're just a just a smart guy I mean you're way ahead of the curve yeah the stuff we teach is common sense it's god's in grandma's ways of handling money it lines up with what the scriptures teach about money and what grandma are these days great Graham all caused some grandmas today and getting common sense but showed great Graham all of for sure used to be called common sense to live on less than you make always have some money set aside for an emergency always being you know planning for the future called retirement kids college always be avoiding debt if you can't pay for something that means you don't need to buy it capture it keeps you out of that it's a you know it's a different mentality than ninety something percent of the public as today and so on Christine and I got a big job

right but the thing is it's not complicated I think part of the reason that he thought he wasn't winning with money was because he's like this is simple like I've been following these principles and it's common sense since it simple I must be doing something wrong but

it really

is simple well it's not easy

but if there is this thing out there and it's been there for the whole thirty years I've been on the air I've noticed it is that


that there's and I I actually have fallen prey to it in the past not a long time but there's this thing that if it's not complicated it must not be good


when it comes to money like if it's real simple it must be wrong because we have to be complicated if it's money has to be hard to understand if it's money if it's not sophisticated you know it it must be wrong and and the truth is is the stuff we teach and the stuff that works the best is very easy to understand but hard to do because you have to control it it your mirror and the guy my mirrors my problem if I can get that gotta behave he can be skinny and rich but he's got issues man you know that's a problem I like donuts you know it's a problem it's a problem and so you know we all have this and you know it right Alexa Amazon prime click click click click click the stuff keep showing up on our porch and I was like turn that thing off and so we all do this stuff right and if we can control our behaviors personal finances eighty percent behavior that's why it feels like it's it should be harder it should be more complicated but it but when you actually face the demons it is hard because the it's the demons that are the problem it's not the math the math



and but yeah J. W. we always say around here that are a common sense so rare if you get it it's like having a super power all right now what is with this in Chicago I know what's up

Hey thanks for taking my call just have a quick question my wife and I we have some some student loans we have a a Roth IRA we can mount that could just help pay off all the student loans would you recommend that we cash settled in and then just pay off the student loans and be done with it


okay nope

how much is in your student loans

about thirty thousand

and what your household income

six figures

what's six figures nine hundred thousand or a hundred and five thousand

under twenty thousand



good for you well how are you gosh

we are twenty five

good for you okay I would stop adding to your Roth IRA could you been aggressively investing while not paying off your student loans


if you stop adding to your IRA and stop adding to anything except attacking the student loans they become your singular mathematical focus do nothing but attack those things without freaking vengeance




and you're going to have those things paid off in about eighteen months if you do that


twenty five hundred a month you're done a year

well not feeling that you feel right now that desire to quickly get it all paid off that's a good feeling just use that to turn it into gazelle intensity to use that motivation to do the work day and day out to knock out baby step two and pay off those loans but the fact that you feel that kind of gross feeling or like I want these out of my life like lean into that and use that as motivation yeah

that that's that's exactly right you know when you have a

are you know

bottle whatever feelings you've got negative or positive and point them at these loans and that's you know it's like anything where you're feeling real positive but anyway you're pissed off for scared you know aim it at that and just and then get it get it get after it stop all the stupid no going out to eat no no vacations were cleaning this mess up these are pets their loans get rid of them

well you know make good money so you can knock this out pretty quick and the sacrifices the not going out to eat the not going on vacation it's just for a season and once these are gone you're twenty five years old you're gonna have such freedom after that in time don't really invest

I was cracking up we've got these glass boards that are like three feet by two feet that we have outside the studio when people do their debt free screams in the studio here are in the lobby they sign you know there should the how much debt they paid their name the date that kind of stuff and walk and then we every time I get full we move the glass boards and they're all over the building from all the years of the debt free scream target people get Walker I walked past one on that we just put up the other day and I got you know I paid off ninety three thousand dollars a student loans and the note was suck it Sally my house correct give all Sallie Mae the only fiction notice but the old woman in the street J. panorama she needs to go this is the Ramsey show M. C. personality is my co host today in the lobby over Ramsey solutions three stage Peter and Angelica are with us Hey guys how are you


you know to have how much debt to be paid off

forty seven thousand three hundred and seventy five and sixty eight cents I think

there you go good enough

and how long did this take twenty two months

twenty two months yes okay and your range of income during that time

about a hundred sixty

okay what I'll do for a living

home care nurse and I'm not totally goes last half of my claim to business as well

excellent excellent and I what do you guys live

about a half hour outside of Boston had some yes

okay welcome to national is a bit of a trip

yes all right

good to have you so what started this whole process to get you guys out of debt twenty two months ago

well if it well what started it was about six years ago we took F. P. you after we've been married for about a year and I brought a lot of student loans credit card loans into our marriage talk about a tiny bit not too much most mostly it was me we took F. P. you connect church in Massachusetts and that started it it took us about a year to pay that off and then we spent a couple years saving up for a down payment and then twenty two months ago is when we kind of pulled the trigger with paying the mortgage off quickly this is your house yeah you paid off your house that wasn't much of a mortgage no well we we know what a good down payment down you know we we we follow the baby steps we did three B. for for a while you know we saved up our emergency fund three B. and then got our retirements going and everything with with with our market we bought small we don't we we bought it we bought a car do we kept conservative you know we said we want to one will be able to have some margin so off the house quickly

good for you guys wow that's starting to look up twenty two months ago and said I'll let's just go knock this out

let's do it yeah yes

keep on the plan to stay on the plan to stay on the plane


while it all starts with financial peace university when you first get married

yeah about a year into it after we kind of just looking around without a plan on how to how to get rid of my loans I just love how much joy as completely radiating off you all like you can just feel it before before you guys came on the stage it's like you could just feel happiness and that's what it feels like when you pay off your house when you're completely debt free it's a whole it's a whole different world so what did this journey look like for you all oh boy do you want to I don't know was hard at first but we keep always on mine sites with now we have on the eyes on the prize and it's kind of price range we keep praying and be focused and we know the budget imparted by the wi thinking mindset and pray and be diligent as a crease so we I believe we believe that we have to be a good stored and managed a god's money well so is not ours is just temporary and in two thousand twenty one with which side paid off the house Ethan was born I sound in on was that we tough time was in March two thousand eighteen we hope he was going getting the pandemic yeah yeah installation was kind of crazy because he doesn't ours was really frightening for me to see you know I wasn't really really hard to but we trust the plan and say okay we save it some on and we had twenty thousand dollars on after he was born and we put it down right away and then we escalated it the remaining amount

what are you guys Waco


powerful you don't have a payment in the world watches house worth today this condo

a little over two hundred yeah

how much in your retirement accounts

combined close to one hundred thousand so we've replaced a we got caught I mean and

a little over a half a million

net worth yeah right yeah yeah way to go yeah

way to go

how old are you I'm thirty six thirty thirty eight now

so forty five you guys are gonna be millionaires

yeah Hey

at that

I think it

so far that is so funny

who were your biggest cheerleaders in the process I gotta say my co worker tab Issa she she she can't Dave convert in the middle of our baby step two process two and three and you know my parents and R. F. P. leaders back at connect church loves each other M. name my mind so well I'm from Brazil so it she was very excited to see this achievement I'm he almost eighteen years and I came from less than nothing I just had my education from vizio and here I am I. T. Peter was so much of that and I heard people say why are you going to get mad at him his cell you know so much that died crazy but what he wasn't worth every penny and also chime in you know not god men

say he's good looking

I think I you know I I perfect house with that you know folica describe stand that was most important to me than paying off

you know that did that to percent said they meant well you can get out of that if you have a plan


yes yeah we tell folks all the time and we would never tell someone not to get married because of that we would tell you not to get married if you're not in agreement about it and you're both in agreement about it we're gonna do this she jumped in the financial peace university knock out his student loans and then here we go not go ahead and just finish it up and


twenty two months ago to start over going to the mortgage


now our hundred percent now and you're in your mid thirties dollar in a crazy place I'm so proud of you

thanks thank you

so your mom's jumping up and down

she will as she sees that on Tuesday stifle how I accomplished well if it is sweet to the currency in Brazil I'm you know they're out there more demented everything it's great it's great

that'll work to make it

so for all the newlyweds who are just starting out maybe one spouse is coming into the marriage with a lot of debt and one's a little bit nervous about it what advice would you give them as they start their journey boy be honest obviously that's that's one thing that's very important what else Brayton get ray yep prayers that was a big the big thing throughout the whole process is even though we've got this plan that we know it's going to work because you know we've we've been watching the show for a while that you've you know times get tough and you gotta pray and and even even getting extra work that you can handle requires prayer and grace you know we make our plans and god directs our steps and you do have to be on the same page I like that little like eyebrow yeah but the good

job you guys I'm so proud of you all

well done

very well done thanks for making a trip all the way from Boston to celebrate with us being honored to meet you and see you in and here this great story you guys got a bright bright future ahead of you we got a copy of baby steps millionaires for you because that is the next chapter in your story in American dollars you'll be there for you know


the baby a financial peace membership for the next year you can give that to someone that's what started your whole journey and that'll get going and of course the total money makeover book as well so let's bring Peter internet order Sam our teeth and I'm sorry

in an international I'm sorry and

so how does the thing

two and a half

zero four good looking guy I'm not surprised very well good stuff good stuff all right it's Peter Angelica and Ethan Boston Massachusetts four hundred and forty seven thousand how soon everything at thirty six years old making that the twenty two months Mike and one sixty counted down let's hear a debt

free scream today's dollars it is wonderful now the main thing that's going to get you a gets me with the baby I had a pandemic baby as well to hear their journey and

your mom is

my mom is an immigrant

this Rylan right

now but as well and and to see her face and that scream in the jump off that's it

even the Spanish countdown

that's great

or was it not is Brazil's Portuguese Portuguese out okay

but the the threat does you know sounds very similar yeah well I thought okay very good very good

at the White ago you guys that's powerful stuff


I don't know what your story is out there but let me tell you this you can decide starting right now right this second I have a different story right now you're listening to them you may not be in the same situation there is maybe better maybe worse but you can decide

you have

the power you don't wait on someone else to fix your life because guess what they're not going to it's up to you I like it all depends on god you work like it all depends on you


is a range

our scripture that I first us alone in this one three we remember before our god and father your work produced by faith

your labor prompted by love and your endurance inspired by hope in our lord Jesus Christ Christopher reeve said once you choose hope anything is possible Christina Ellis Ramsay personality number one best selling author is my co host today Cameron is in Houston high camera how are you

hi de hi Christina thanks for taking my call sure what's up well we're only baby steps for five and six in particular or little stuck in neutral my wife is very concerned about using a financial adviser since you think you've heard too many horror stories of people losing everything from other people handling their money but I told her I'm I'm in need of additional guidance and and I want to maximize our sciences moves forward do you have any advice for helping assuage your concerns or anything that I could tell her or discuss with her that might help us move forward

I love that she's cautious about this okay there are two kinds of fear the fear that keeps you from playing kick ball in the middle of the interstate where there's eighteen wheelers or touching a hot stove those are good figures right and you know fears that make you wary of crooks are good figures I'm and I will tell you this truthfully the thing that scares me more than crooks are well intentioned ignoramus is that are enthusiastic

yeah I

grew up with money more often and and screw you up in life more often than actual crooks because there are more of them alright and so I love her caution in that the other kind of fear is false evidence appearing real I once heard about a family that had a car wreck and so I refused to drive a car


well that's where she is okay so how do you solve that for someone that has this fear that is on based in it that is based on a good kind of cautious wisdom but has gone too far the only way I know to solve it is with information now the way I would do that is this if it was my wife I would say okay you know what I completely understand because by the way I do I can say this truthfully I completely understand that people sometimes get completely ripped off by people in the financial world because sometimes they do but I do know there are some good people in that world that also help people and I don't know how to do this without some help and so what I'm asking of you is not that we invest money with someone not that we make the decision to use an adviser but that you agree to do three meetings with advisor with an adviser or advisors to learn about that industry because you and I don't know about it all I'm asking you to go is to listen and to learn if at the end of that you remain completely opposed to it then we'll deal with that because here's the thing there's more regulations on those guys dude then there is on banks

hello okay

I mean they are so regulated up the Ying Yang it's unbelievable I don't know how to get any work done for the stupid fads sticking in there

your whole all the time

it's nuts okay I mean they have to give you a perspective so says you're gonna lose all your money in the first seventeen pages before you can even see the actual investment analysis behind it and this is a this is an investment that's been open eighty five years and has not had but five down years but you still have to say you're going to lose all your money and they said and they make you say stupid but stuff like

all past performance is not indicative of future performance of course it is that's dumber than crap

but they might say stuff like that you know of course it is not a guarantee of future performance but it's the only way you do forecasting in investments or business you have to use past performance to do it so anyway my point is when you get in there with a good financial adviser and say just telling the truth she scared because she thinks are so many crooks in this business and tell them how to show us what the safeguards are tell us how the industry works to protect us if you're a crook and if they're offended by you saying that get out of their office because I if I was in that business I would love to have this conversation and tell right the uninitiated how regulated that world is it's it's nuts but anyway all that to say I think the other thing that'll happen as a side bar is she'll see a human being

that is that

she will sense with her spirit is a good person or as a bad person


and yeah

and you

gotta you gotta trust her when she says that

absolutely no all of our meeting so far have been over the phone but we do have some in person meeting scheduled soon yeah so I think this will be a good good way to each week's show us the safeguards might be the best way to just

tell the truth she does not want to this because she's afraid of all the crooks in the business and the stupid people in the business tell us why you're not that or that that's not me with our smart Vester pros if you can do click on smart Ramsey solutions dot com get with some of them because they will relish because they have the heart of a teacher and this is this is what you're gonna give them the opportunity to do what they love to talk about

right okay yeah we've done a lot of reading too so we're only gonna recommend people that we trust yeah

hopefully not but I mean it always scares me when we do that because some people go in there and do business with them just because we trust him I would rather you trust them you vet them you get in there but I mean we've added we feel good about it in one of the things we vetted as they're going to have the heart of a teacher and so just you know what are the types of investments I should be scared of one of the types of people I should be scared off and how does that work and I'm really scared and I don't even want to be here I would encourage her to say all of that and if they raise their hackles up and are offended get out of their office don't use them

okay okay

because I think a good one we'll say it rise to the challenge on this and go


thank you for letting me tell people how this works because I don't get to tell many people how screwed up our businesses by the few crooks that are out there because truthfully there is a lot more correction real estate business than there are in the financial business because real estate business is relatively unregulated I mean there's a little bit regulation without much and there's not many Christian real estate business either



you know

you're not taking people's money there you're just doing a transaction most the time so but I mean cal league

I think a lot it is also

I mean I mean and there's a lot more idiots in the banking world a thousand times more idiots than there are in the financial advising world because of the blood tests are so hard to get in their number one but number number it just requires a level of intellect to get in the gray matter and you don't have to do that work in a bank

right well I think a lot of people get into these situations and I feel like they're being interviewed by Saddam with an adviser or a real estate agent and they feel like oh gosh I don't know but it's like you are still hiring that person like you get to ask questions you get to dig deeper yeah you can

feel and helped because you don't now right anytime you're going to situation the expert is there you feel like a lot like


you know and I but may I tell you what the best thing around me my lips on the bow up on those people and make them prove themselves


by teaching me


I'm not you don't need to be my lawyer if you can't teach me how we're gonna win you know you don't need to be my tax guy if you can't teach me why we're doing this and what's going on you know I I don't have to be as good as you don't have to know everything you know but you got to be able to transfer the knowledge enough that I get comfort because I'm not doing it because you said so you want my Daddy


you know I said so bull crap my money you know we're not doing that so that's the thing you got to get to there and I love his wife's spirit for that reason I think it'll lead them to really good solid conservative investments that they won't get screwed on that's a wonderful thing so folks are always looking for someone with a heart of a teacher


if they're condescending or they're offended by you asking hard questions which is a form of arrogance or condescension arm if they expect you to do stuff just because they said so you got the wrong people whether its mortgage people real estate people insurance people are lawyers


financial advisors you're looking for the heart of a teacher around the financial world and I gotta tell you more people learn how to sail in the financial world and learn how to teach so there the teachers are harder to find and that's the only people I work with I'll be glad to you to work with

that's good that's good yeah be willing to look around ask those hard questions and and really explore for yourself I love her heart that she wants to see yeah that's a good place to be and it's a it's a healthy there's there's the unhealthy side of fear that make certain maybe not one adviser but being cautious and going and interviewing people that's with instead of just going to turn it all over to my man because the man lost the money no no you are the man you don't turn it over you get somebody with that you're in charge so I love yeah she said then driver saying man that's awesome good stuff good job Christina today good job the James Sanders act been often in the booth I am Dave Ramsey your host will be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace Christ Jesus have you been inspired to make a change with your money want to know where to start take her three minute money place to get a plan you can follow the Ramsey solutions stop and search for started to get a

Hey it's James producer of the Ramsey show this episode is over but check the episode notes for links to products and services you heard about during this episode thanks for listening