I’m Second Guessing Paying Off the House (Hour 3) - Transcripts

November 22, 2022

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Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman discuss: Paying off the house vs. saving the money, Getting out of a family business, The myth of a singular "living wage." Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy


the headquarters of the Ramsey solutions broadcasting from the pods moving and storage studio heads the Ramsey show where dad is down it all has taken the place of the BMW has a status symbol of shortage we help people build well they work for they love to create actual amazing relationship open phones a triple eight eight two five five two two five Ken Coleman Ramsey personality number one best selling author most of the Kim Coleman show is my co host thanks for joining us Sam is gonna start this hour off in Houston Texas hi Sam how are you

what are you

better than I deserve what's up

so I have a question here on one node baby so search right now and it's time to kind of pick up the house but again I have one issue it kind of does a little twist in a saga of the emergency fund set aside will have about twenty thousand dollars Deutsche I know my age bracket in furnace is extremely old and it may not have too much longer it's always wondering should I continue to pour money into the emergency fund and keep it in a money market account or should I just start putting anything over that twenty grand into into the house

are we got a bit on the H. back replacement yet

I did I thought it actually had done had gone out about a month or so ago are not somebody came and told me that both of them were over a decade old that was kind of expected when I bought the house I kind of had to do everything but it's rerun everything but just points all I've had a couple issues with the to eat you well it's I'm just not sure what to do I know based on the baby steps I should be paying directly

to mentally I track

I think it was seventeen five

the odd policy you need more than twenty in your emergency fund that you back to be basically need your emergency fund plus an H. back fund

yeah that's what I was thinking but I mean I could be wrong but I think the baby steps it's just talk but six months of expenses on the high end did not no no no no the baby steps is to read a six months of expenses for your emergency fund

this is really not an emergency this is my heating and air is going to go bad and I'm saving up to pay for it this is a separate savings account this is like I'm saving up for Christmas


this different timers are fun

okay so should I not put any money for the house and so I have another twenty kind of put aside

yeah yeah your usual down should you should be white on extra on the house until you get ready for this because otherwise we can predict what's going to happen you're going to three thousand dollars left after you take twenty out of your emergency fund to fix your heat and air because you didn't prepare for it


right we don't wanna be there

it yeah

so we might as well actually planned this and soon what do you make in a year what your household income

I make two hundred

okay so pretty quickly you're gonna have seventeen and you know what I'm just going to replace it

okay so so you would do before actually dies




because here's the other thing it probably sucks is probably not very energy efficient is probably wrong you know ancient you know it's antique stuff on there like you said ten fifteen years old which is an indication there and so you could put a more efficient higher see your unit on there and you know you're in a better situation the house a better your utility bills probably gonna go down and you don't have this thing glaring over this monster just waiting to break at exactly the wrong time and you can't get a worker out there and all that kind of stuff


save up seventeen and then fix it oh by the way get more than one bit yeah yeah I'd say two or three I I sometimes I'm not saying this is the case date but sometimes they're not as bad the report on the six side as bad as it seems you know I've I've had multiple people coming to look at stuff before and one guy said I replaces tomorrow for me then another honest guy because he goes you know what you probably easily got a year left on this and and that gives you the time to cash flow yeah get multiple opinions on this just like you would on a medical issue well and and you know multiple opinions about what to put in do we put in a Bentley order we put in a Chevrolet yeah you know there's you couldn't pay their systems I can you can put all kind I just replaced one of mine it would anywhere close to seventeen is way less than that starkly Catherine's weathers and Richmond Virginia hi Catherine how are you

hi how are you doing

better than I deserve what's up

I in any business with my family my grandmother wanted to get to me and my seven cut and a real estate business what we bought different houses and this happened about ten years ago she kept it just not in college my brother runs it he is in charge of all the finances and everything and I want ouch I don't know anything that's going on with the business I don't know why you have yeah while

why do you not mind

well because of the time I was I was twenty I didn't ask a lot of questions how old are you now looking I'm thirty

okay well that's ten years ago you had ten years to get caught up to speed why do you not know

right well actually I was I was working at a real estate right after college I was working at real estate management business and I got the owner to kind of help me communicate with my with my mother my cousins my brother about the situation and I we got in a fight about it and

what what was the fight about you asked for information on the business on the business of your own party


didn't want to tell you

I am sure he income expense statement I tried to say you know like this is a business not like a family matter but he tried to make it you know national family matter

how long ago was

that I'm not sure you don't trust

I'll go with that

that was seven years ago

so what do you do you just got low quiet mouse out there for seven years on your angst

I said I tried to yes I did

okay so what we gonna do now

my grandma balls

we don't

I don't know that I am I am calling the shots

okay so you don't know how to get out procedurally or are you trying to relational advice on this

are procedurally and how to communicate well about you know I'm a teacher I don't know anything about business really how to run a business about real estate I mean my husband I own a house Becton I don't know anything about now C. or

okay I have had you talked to your brother now other ones


for like Christmas you'll see


and you just don't say anything you just he just has bullied his way and put you in a corner

in a conversation with him about it was a year ago on a family trip also Kayla tells how's it going is there any chance that I can you know see if financials that we can have this conversation again and have it not be an emotional thing but as a business owner and act like a partner in this I'll be all together hello hello there the number you gave me he owns another business local business and he told me that

your brothers entered all right hold on a minute we'll take you through this break we'll come back and talk to you about a deal with your brother oh my gosh this is arranging get Goldman Ramsey personality is my co host today were talking with Catherine in Richmond Virginia her grandmother opened a real estate business for her and her brother and her cousins seven of them in total and they are her brother runs it and has not giving her any reports or we'll tell her anything about it for a decade and she wants out is that a fair summary what you told me so far that's correct okay you didn't put any money on this your grandmother funded all of it and handed it to you in your questions


how much is all of this worse do you guess

there's about four or five residential houses at the time they were worth one hundred or two hundred thousand that's probably where three hundred to four hundred now

okay and sorry

about all paid for

okay and so your part is a half million dollars to reject okay


charge like that are they distributing income to you gosh


she's not seen a dime out of it he runs it you know all the money comes back into his management fees and nothing goes back out to you guys at all and so all you have is this phantom thing that's happening over here and you have absolutely no control over how old is your grandmother

she is in her eighties late eighties

and she has no authority anymore she just simply gave it all seven of you and she stepped out or does she have any say in anything

I tried long balls for a one time and she they kind of just brushed her off I mean I think she's although not to the point where okay thinking callously

not you're not hyper assertive as a matter of fact you're on the other end of the assertive scale is your husband in the sort of person

you are scared of and I am yes

okay because here's what you don't you've got three options as I can see it and then you need to decide on one of these three and then quit worrying about it drop it okay okay option number one is continue what you're doing I just let your brother on it and just forget it and not not think another thing about it and someday they'll need your signature


okay and whatever just don't worry about it okay I don't like that option you don't like that option that's why you called but that is an option okay another option is our scorched earth and that is are you and your husband sit down with your brother I'm not calling for an appointment if you won't give you one then you're gonna write a certified letter and your husband can do the talking and you say here's what sounds like we have tried repeatedly to get reports from you to find out where the cash flow is going from these properties you're not doing anything and you say we don't trust you turn this into this is not any that this business is being run very poorly because the stake holders are getting no information this is an improper way to run a business and we want out and you're gonna buy us out right now and you're gonna show us the valuations and based on that you're gonna buy this out and if you do not do that we're going to hire an attorney and the circuit judge will force you to buy this out we will disband this


partnership that your grandmother put together it's a nightmare now that one sounds kind of fun the downside is that you probably lose your brother in the process


but you probably lost him anyway because he's a **** okay


yeah no yes no yes I mean there's no question about it I mean he's a complete bully he has pushed you into the corner and he's done that since you're a tiny child and he's continued to do it in your adulthood and he gets away with it he's a **** okay no question about it I mean you told me like five different ways you approach this guy and every time he just informs you and treat you with complete disrespect and you know that's true yeah

I like number two David you haven't got a number three

yeah I'm vote number number three is walk away and caught call him and say I'm tired of this I don't want anything else to do with it I don't need the money I'm get this prepare the papers I'm gonna sign them and indeed you whatever it is and you can have it all I don't want any of it screw you

I don't like down Catherine this is this is your how much is his I don't like that one

there's there's a part of me done like it but there's a part of it that is just life goes on whatever

I don't know

her money that senator grandmother gave it to her it's not that it's not it's not but it's found money is not in the world it's just a bit you know because one where you keep your brother in the thing I'm not sure you've got much when you keep him

that's what I'm saying


I think you take the bully on the bully caves he doesn't want to fight

he's just been pushing you away and and and no I'm not going to settle for seeing the books now there were two light we've that that that ship has sailed no you cannot compromise yes you are buying me out or the judge is going to tell you to buy me up your decision you have ten days

that's a circuit court

you're not a follow suit to dis the disability to dissolve this LLC and your stakeholder in the LLC and then they will have to bring forth documents that show that you're in violation of one of those and you're not this is that you're fighting for the dissolution of a partnership

he doesn't want that fight I don't think you're losing anything with him relational either and and I

well you're not gonna be easy she talked she talk to him now he won't talk to her again at exit

well maybe so

I mean

you know you need your cut

you need your cut whatever yours is worth and you need to see the books to get your cut you can be a you can be you can no longer be on any type of wishy washy about this you need to make a decision I'm going to ignore it hold my nose and deal with it that's the decision and I'm not gonna be stressed about it anymore and then it's not anybody's fault but mine because I made this decision to let these people just run their course that's one number two I'm gonna take it on full on that front all right at you we're gonna bring the bazookas


we're gonna burn this thing to the ground number three we're just gonna walk away we're gonna hand you the keys and you can keep it secret I don't need it but make a decision the angst of twelve or ten years of you carrying all of this relational garbage around this whole deal

it is

it's been so destructive to you and your brother and your relationship with him

the whole

deal you need to get out of the deal

one way or another


can I suggest that we tell all the properties and development that way

well that that's not your option the only option you've got it they're gonna have to sell something to give you your cut they may also want to stay together except you

right you just want out

so if I keep going that's none of your business

right but you're out

I want my cut you need to soften up properties to pay me my cut and you need to show me a proper valuation as to what my one seventh is and why and if you don't give me proof of that we don't talk to the judge the judge


and it's gonna take two years and twenty thousand dollars for the legal fees

yeah okay

yeah the justice system has nothing to do with justice

or efficiency no not at all

and so I sure hope you don't get drug into that I hope your brother's not that stupid but


very well could become somebody is so in a time for meeting maybe don't have time for all ship

that's what I believe Dave

I think that's why I don't have time for a meeting at nine though his schedule had with anyone deal with her

he does not want to dealers to form he doesn't want her input he doesn't want to question how he's doing things and I think this is an easy out for the whole year not he's gotten away with it for too long yes I think this is an easy out for him what is she goes at this

he's going to go all right Jeez yeah

meeting yeah he wants to he wants to get done with this I think is going to yeah my question not whether or not he's gonna show the bookstore we get an honest evaluation I can make him do that to legally

well I that's what I would become a stakeholder


I mean

the judge is going to get involved here if he doesn't play


but this is gonna require tremendous lack a ten X. assertiveness took for her and her husband together offer what they have done so far they're kind of like

he would you please maybe it's like

he's like nope


sorry I you know good lord


and any of the other good news you get out of a family vacation which is all that's the silver lining here under the all this advice

Hey grandma's out there we don't build stuff like this

yes seven cousins it's crappy

dumb but idea Graham all you're trying to be a blessing your group this up

it's like the walls real estate fund

good night Jim Bob Mary Ellen no Maryland you can see the books a

huge swath of our audience has no idea what we're even talking about right

it's a classic room or our this is the rams you show gentleman Ramsey personality is my co host today in the lobby of Ramsey solutions on the debt free stage dog is with the side Doug are you

good David can thank you for having me

absolutely where do you live

I live in Raritan New Jersey it's about twenty twenty five minutes north of Princeton


good to have you

welcome to Nashville and here to know debt free scream how much did you pay off

pay off a little over eighty eight thousand dollars

good for you and how long does this take you

thirty one months

good for you and your range of income during that year and a half

sister about two and a half years twenty five to fifty thousand with the full time ends just a side hustles

what what do you do for a living

also currently I work two jobs I work as a delivery driver for GrubHub and then I do Amazon during like late nights

okay so your boss that but just to get it done

okay what kind of debt was the eighty eight thousand all student loans

whoa exactly my outs anime is

there John John will Sally what was the degree for I went for a music performance okay I didn't necessarily use the degree during my debt free journey but I just I got sick and tired of just you know being in den just

kicked it

now welcome

good for you what your long term career goal

my long term is definitely pursuing some kind of teaching in music I know that during this journey I got into accounting so that's something I'm definitely looking forward to go towards the but music is that they're going to be my number one passion

gotcha okay good for you so what started you on this idea you want to be out of debt thirty one months ago

twenty twenty coated well that was definitely my wake up call and even my way before back in twenty fifteen my stepfather at the time he introduced me to your material on it was pretty much like you to format and then in twenty twenty I started realizing that you had a a format through a Spotify so I just you know went to your show and listen to like all the the episodes in the devry screams that's like when I got connected to can call man John Gentiloni George Campbell and all the other personalities as well so I'm just going through the journey it's been like you know going through all the the podcast and just you know being in current street that and yeah and it was actually the summer of twenty twenty I really started to you know stay focused in terms of paying off the debt and grub pub that was the the food delivery I'm service that I worked for and still do and so that was just working that like forty you know fifty hours a week and on top of like my other job for Amazon that was really but that the two jobs that really were like with lucrative time

are forgotten all stupid phrases we had what was it shelter in place right

yeah as I called the aso GrubHub is like a lifesaver because

people were told not to leave their homes because they were going to die

yeah right right but a lot of hungry people

yeah that's the guy was a great service to be on very good

how many hours were you pull there were several weeks I was like fifty to like sixty hours so for about a little over a year and a half asleep you know yeah

should just touch on ground knock it out

of some grand

that animal

my parents were very gracious for me you know living with them I am the stereo type living with my mom like under my mom's basement so you got caught up in that ran out awhile ago you know it's not you at all number yeah you're you're not stereo type yeah I was working at your site all the time

that's right

so yeah there's no shame in that man's ocean when you're getting out of debt there's no shame in that well it's a temporary thing is let's write some

method to what it's a method yeah that's good

yeah you're

you're not over a minute remaining of people who are working if I recall

that's funny though

you were sitting there we did all that

all right so

what is the secret to paying off eighty eight thousand dollars and thirty one months

know that there are you he can't put hope in the wrong things and I know especially with the student loan crisis and like what's going on with that you just you cannot depend on the government urges other people in general to take care of your problems I know there are many but there are many nights I had to look in the mirror and say that you know I am the problem and the past mistakes I made I mean I've you know come out from abusive relationship I came out of it an addiction I struggle with for half my life like thirteen years



how you phrase how long you been dry

I've been dry for well over a month and a half now good for you very recent died good for you that's awesome product

good work

thank you and so yeah it that is just I know my mom and I we got really connected during that time of just me getting out of debt we watch a lot of sermons like Billy Graham sermons yes listen to all kinds of like wires and everything and just know that you know people like me who are single and just know who think that they just can't get who can't make it know that there is hope in especially in Jesus Christ because him as my lord and savior he's just done so much for me and my family that I just I cannot thank him enough for getting me I just cannot do it without him

I meant

this strange that he's given me is just they were nice I just I I feel like I couldn't going to make it anymore and just put my hope in him it's just really it really they really helped me

you've done a lot of work in the last thirty one March not just delivering groceries and a lot of personal work well done

yeah it was a financial journey for sure but a lot it was like character development and just you know going in

and turns into a spiritual journey

spiritual journey as well during that time actually I did create a playlist as such it just call that that free play list it's just a playlist you know get people motivated and just you know that that that there's hope during this journey so

good for you man well done very well done Hey we got a copy of total money makeover for you in the living give bundle as well as the baby steps millionaires that's next chapter in your story

thank you

I got a feeling you've laid a foundation here during this thirty one months it's gonna allow you to do a whole lot of wonderful things in your life Churchill foundation a financial foundation and emotional foundation


your drive for a month and a half is good it's good work thanks very good work and of course also we've got a one year subscription or one year membership to financial peace university go through the details are you not to watch the cheap YouTube you can watch the real


and yeah what will line you up on all of that and you use it or give it away and whatever whatever you need to do very very well done and where to go mom churning on and give them some support along the way that's good work that's not that's not a bad type of support that's not enabling that's that's lifting their share of the

how about a shout out to to Billy Graham

you know a lot of young people wouldn't

it wouldn't hurt you to watch the Billy Graham on you TV you might be surprised

that's our our support heard people either

love that well that to you telling you that's awesome stuff proud of you

good stuff though thank you very very cool very proud of your hero man good work how's it feel to be free

if he was awesome omen

on or not but now

it isn't worth all that struggled when you stand right there right now it was it is and I just right yeah I mean I'm just speechless yeah yeah good for you

good for you

all right Doug from Newark New Jersey area eighty eight thousand paid off in thirty one months

did it delivering twenty five to fifty thousand dollar income sixty to eighty hours a week counted down mature a dead preschool

three two one ladies and gentleman P. A. W. done I love it well folks financial peace university is on sale right now

we got the Black Friday special going on that the cheapest the lowest price we've ever done fifty nine ninety nine you can sign up for financial peace university

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is the Ramsey show

how are you I'm sure that I did run a four nine only be careful and watch yourselves closely so that you do not forget the things your eyes have seen

or let them fade from your heart as long as you live teach them your children and to their children after them I got the Christie said one does not doesn't recognize the really important moments in life of one's life until it's too late this is true

blinds dot com question of the day

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today's question comes from Thomas in Missouri as a Christian I feel like I have a duty to take care of my employees I have a small business with nine employees they currently make minimum wage if I were to raise their wages to a living wage than my profit margin would decrease this is a business I worked really hard at for so many years the governor want me to benefit from my hard work now what should I do okay this is an onion here Dave number one businesses deal with this all the time and when they when they raise wages of they have a decision to make do you want your profit margin to stay the same and so if so then you have to raise your costs and you have to weigh that with the market place and what your customers will or will not pay and this is the this is the dance a lot of small business people have to deal with and have had to deal in framing her from it so I don't think it's a choice here between god wants you to benefit from your hard work now and it you know not doing what you want to do which pay your employees more they could do both but you're going to have to square raising some prices or cutting costs in other areas if that's even an option this is hard to answer I want to say that everything I just said it's very difficult to answer that via a static question where we can answer a lot of questions excuse me ask more questions yeah

the buzz word that's the problem and this is a living


and who determines that



I can tell you who determines me

that's my point not what I'm

saying no I'm the employer hears nothing okay if I pay twelve dollars an hour our five pay whatever you want to whatever minimum wages in your area okay and a guy comes in and you do a budget on the guy and he has five kids and I he needs ninety thousand dollars a year to pay his bills and feed his kids I can't as a Christian hire him for that job because I can't pay him ninety thousand dollars to do that job and ninety thousand dollars for him is a living wage because that's what it takes to feed his five kids okay if I have a nineteen year old who lives with her parents parents comes in and is looking for part time work and any money he makes is going in his pocket because he has basically no personal overhead and twelve dollars an hour is what I can afford as the employer then that is his living wage so this idea that there is a a universal living wage is absolute horse crap there is no such thing because it takes some families it takes families in different situations in different locales a different amount to live it takes a family of four more to live in Manhattan than it does in Nashville so the living wage would be different for a family of four or a family of one our family of fourteen the living wage changes on that and so what we do at Ramsey as Christians we have a responsibility to take care of our employees and one of the responsibilities is not hiring someone who can't afford to live on what we are paying

for that position

show you are disqualified if you can't make it on what we are paying for that position regardless of if you want the job or you're qualified for the job we will run a budget

with you

because we care about you


it is our responsibility once you are here

to make sure you are cared for

then we do take care of our team beyond measure we take care of our team

that's correct way

beyond measure we take care of our team but we do not hire people who cannot afford to live on


we pay for that position


and that is our responsibility that your responsibility so you know

well in a way I wanna go won't you know based on your inappropriate requests for my personal budget information I'm going to withdraw my name from future future employment considerations

which which we said people that talk like that don't even work

so we're not doing that you know that's great

C. yet goodbye you know don't let the door hit you in the **** you know it's good you know we don't need you and but you know but the reason for the inappropriate request of the into the personal information is to protect you

from you

because some people take a job that they can't afford to live on the income those are so desperate for a job


and dont show but this idea that there's some kind of generic living wage out there floating around that you have a moral obligation to that's a single singular numbers absolute or scrap


you're paying minimum wage for non employees are any of them trying to actually live on that with a family if so why did they take that job or why did you hire them into something they can't afford to live on and that's a bigger question then do you raise your wages to make this

right and here's the other thing you have to have to look at your business model and the market go based on whatever product or service I am selling because it's one of the two this is what the market will allow me to do and I may not ever be able to truly have all nine of them on what would be called a full living wage you might be in the hourly space and that's what you have it does you've got ternary of younger people working for it that's

part of your business I think I come in the days to come he offered an eighty thousand dollars more to do the exact same thing you're doing with it with us so we should

fantastic help you pack your desk yeah it's a no brainer we cannot

we cannot make a return on paying you eighty thousand dollars more than you're being paid now show you you will be working at the new place my friend will help you go because

it is

this you know we have to make a return on investment here or or the rest of the team doesn't eat right because their checks don't clear there's a responsibility all around show yes god would want you to take care of your team and he would want you to benefit from your hard work now these are not incompatible correct yes are not incompatible

that's correct

that's the point of it and don't fall into this socialistic living wage crap that was Karl Marx that was not Jesus okay there's a difference open phones at triple eight

eight two five five two two five Julia is with us in Sacramento hi Julia how are you

hi how are you pleasure

same here how can we help


my mom recently purchased a time share in Mexico and she paid cash for a grocery reached he reached out to me and asked me to give her my ID and my birth certificate read she wants to modify her travel

I don't want a time share

legalized fraud you're gonna get this is not a blessing this is a curse

why would a loving mother do this to her daughter

because she still thinks it's a good deal she got screwed no we don't need to pass this on this is not an heirloom

yeah I think it's a good deal but it's not a good deal it's a horrible deal

there are no good time shares the stock one hundred percent of the it is one of the worst product ever put out by man

but what

yeah you are very clear

I thought so as well in my ear he was cleared only keep saying no a third time Julia

yeah just lovingly kindly mom I I'm not interested in the time sure thank you


I don't I don't I I I think they're really bad deal and I'm really sorry about one mile and I think you're gonna regret it and I'd never ever ever ever wanted in my name no thank you thank you thank you know I also don't want your dog to bite me

yeah this is like the server

let me tell you there's a ninety seven percent dissatisfaction right with time share owners there's no other product out there in the world as a ninety seven percent dissatisfaction right all the buy them hate them they're complete screw job your Porsche precious mother got screwed over and hasn't realized it yet and she's trying to pass that on as an heirloom

no please no no no no no no no no no no no no

the lower the volume for the Dodgers for you can leave me we all appreciate it just really do that's the gift that keeps on giving

good sure okay thanks for having me Hey Laura all the phones today

Zach Hamberg James everybody in the booth good work you guys very well very good job of both people puts a sour in the books will be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily or the prison project was with the rams the network on your smartphone it's the only place to listen to the entire back catalogue

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Hey it's James producer of the Ramsey show this episode is over the check the episode notes for links to products and services you heard about during this episode thanks for listening