Paint or Get off the Ladder! (Hour 1) - Transcripts

March 15, 2023

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Dave Ramsey & Dr. John Delony answer your questions and discuss: "I'm running out of money to fight for custody",  "When should I pay off the house?" Financially planning for a baby, from the blog: Having a Baby? Don't Forget These Expenses Support Our Sponsor: DreamCloud  Zander Insurance NetSuite Neighborly Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Take our FREE 3 minute assessment: Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: Learn more about your ad choices. Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy


Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the pods, moving and storage studios. It's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. Open phones this hour as we talk about your life and your money. It's a free call, and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. The number is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Dr. John Deloni, number one bestselling author, Ramsey personality, and host of the Dr. John Deloni Show, a very, very popular podcast on the Ramsey Network, is my co-host today. So we're going to be talking with you again, 888-825-5225. Ben's in Salt Lake City.

Hey, Ben, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hey, Ben. Sorry. Hey, Dave and John, thank you for your time today. Sure. How can we help, sir? Okay, so I'll just try to skim over the top real quick. I am a full-time single dad, and I was on Baby Step 2 when I got sued by my ex for custody, and so I put everything on hold, been trying to cash flow through the process that started back in September, and basically starting to run out of money, and I know there's a lot more expenses coming up. I'm looking for a way to be able to do that, because I don't want to lose my son, and I'm trying to decide whether to take a loan or if I can go on anymore, you know

what I mean? So...

What's the basis of the custody suit? She just... So she was on the other side of the country, and she just wants to basically flip it. She said he's not been cheated well, and he's struggling and things like that, but he's doing very well with friends in school, and he's being taken care of. So that's her argument for her, but her attitude is basically she's going to... We tried to work it out, set a court, but nothing... I would be very surprised if she changed her mind on that.

Man, I'm sorry.

How long have you been divorced?

It's been about three and a half years.

Where did she get unlimited money? Her new partner is very wealthy. And I think that's where a lot of it stems from, is the pressure from her new partner,

because it's kind of out of character for her to really go for this, but... Okay. Well, here's the thing.

How much are you talking about borrowing? About $15,000, and I had a... What happens when that runs out?

What happens when that runs out?

Well, I've had a family member say that they would give me a loan, but like you say, Thanksgiving...

What happens when that runs out?

What happens when that runs out?

Yeah. I don't know. So we really have to address this issue, because all you're doing... It's not like you're going to win all of a sudden with $15,000 more, or if you take out another $10,000 from a relative after that. At the end of that, it's not necessarily like you're going to win. So it's not a, I'm going to lose custody if I don't take out a loan. It's I don't have a good strategy to end this. If you could tell me that you could take out a $15,000 loan and 100% beat her, and it's over, I'm not going to tell you to choose your kid over getting in debt. I don't borrow money. I find a way around it. But what's happening here is that borrowing money is allowing you to continue in a process that's not got an end to it, because the party on the other side's got unlimited funds. Right?

So if you can get some kind of assurance from an attorney that this is going to draw to a close, there's one more course of action. It's about this many hours, and we're going to be able to wrap this up. That's one discussion. I'm just going to keep fighting until I run out of loans and they never run out of money. That's not a process that's good for you or anybody, except the lawyers.

It's good for them. Have you tried to roll this into mediation, and the reason I asked you why she was suing you, because outside of some egregious abuse or something else, these things are often handled offline in mediation, which has an end point and a dollar amount attached to

it. Yeah, I talked to her about that about a month ago, and she basically told me what she would be willing to do, and it's that the custody would switch over.

Yeah, but I mean, that's the point of going through the mediation is one side says, this is all I'm going to do, and the other side says this is all I'm going to do, and the mediator's job is to bring people together. But following up with Dave said, the reason I would push for that is because there's some finality to it. There's a period of that sentence.

It just doesn't go on and on and on and on. Where is it being heard, in Utah or in her state? In my state. Okay. In my state. Mike, you're turning about bringing this to a close, and how have you been funding it so far?

What do you make a year?

About $40,000. Okay. And you've just been funding it out of cash flow? Yeah.

And so you're out of money, why? I mean, we're just continuing with all this pre-court stuff, and I could keep going, but I asked my lawyer about how much for the rest of it, and he said, if we go all the way through he thinks about $15,000.

Oh, he thinks that's going all the way through.

Okay. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Which we have a court date and everything's set, so. Then what I'm going to do is take six jobs and work through the $15,000, if that's it.

Because that's doable. Okay. Yeah. I've wanted to do that. The reason why I haven't done that is because I also am a student, and to just help me... Not anymore. Not anymore.

Yeah. I'll take some time off from being a student. I'm not getting much. Yeah. Right now, you're fighting a battle for one thing. So now what we're saying is we're going to borrow money so we can stay in school indirectly. Mm-hmm. And we're definitely not doing that. So... Someone is trying to take your son. Yeah. That's way more important than being a student.

And avoiding debt is more important than being a student, being a student.

Right. I also think it could. it could, I don't say will, it could serve you in court to say I had to stop doing these things because this person is dragging me and my child through the mud. And so I had to stop going to school. I had to stop doing this and take more work on to fund this, these accusations or this, this attempt to take my child from me. And I'm going to do whatever it takes to keep that from

happening. Yeah. And lean in on your lawyer and say, I'm a guy who makes 40 grand. I don't have 15 grand growing on trees. Let's figure out what we can do to clip that. That's a little rich. So, you know, just fulfilling your lawyer's dreams is not one of my dreams. So that's awful. Ben, I'm so sorry. Six, six for you. This is the Ramsey show.

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and use promo code John Deloney today. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us America. We're glad you're here. If you're a new listener and there are a bunch of you, a bunch of new viewers on YouTube and TBN and all over the place, all our numbers are up across the board. Thank you for that. A lot of you are trying to figure out some of the inside lingo like baby steps and dead snowballs and all that kind of stuff. It's a simple way to do that. Just go to, click get started and we'll start walking you through the process. Matter of fact, we will show you with a get started process exactly where you are financially and what to do next and I help you with your plan, your journey, the whole bit. Click completely free. No salesman will call.

Completely free. Chris is with us. Chris

is in Lansing, Michigan. Hey Chris, how are you? Hi Dave, thank you for having me. Sure. I am on baby step six and I have a two-part question. My job security isn't too great right now and I wanted to know should I wait until I get a new job before I pay off my house and if I didn't do that, what payments should I

get rid of to work towards paying down my house? What payments should you get

rid of? You have other debt? So like life insurance, 401k, you know, 501, like the educate 529 account, tithing. So those are all, you know, things that I pay in towards that maybe I could redirect towards my house.

Okay, maybe step six we would tell you to keep living your life and with money you find in your budget you would pay extra on your house. It sounds like this

job thing has got you rattled. How long you been working there? Well it's my

company, so for 20 years and I have a business partner. Okay, so you're not

gonna lose your job, you might lose your business is what you're saying. Yes, if one of us doesn't leave and I'm the main contributor and it's not enough to support both of us, so slowly my income has gone way down to a point where I can't really afford not to leave and he's not leaving, so I'm going to look

for something different. What do you do? It's a marketing company. Okay. Are you married to your business partner? No, no but I am divorced. Did you used to be married to your business partner? Oh I'm sorry, did you used to be married to your business partner? No, no. Okay. So how is your business partner squashing your

ability to earn a living? Because he's not contributing and we're 5050 partner.

So he's not bringing in his side of the business yet he's taking half of what you bring in and since he's not bringing any in

and the total pie has shrunk and he's taken half of it. What keeps you from closing the doors and opening a door next door

and just doing this on your own and making all the money? Our partnership agreement basically wouldn't be able to do that. You have to buy out.

In order to get out, you have to buy out.

No, he'd have to buy you out if you wanted out and out. That's not how our partnership agreement is structured. Our partnership agreement is structured that if you leave, you buy your clients if you were to take them. But I'm looking to get out of this industry altogether

and start just a whole different chapter. Okay, so what are you gonna do

and what are you gonna be making? Well, I'm looking right now, but I'm hoping to manage a team of people and be in sales, and I'm looking at around 200 to 350.

Okay, so this sounds like it didn't just suddenly occur. It's crept up on you and you've put off making the decision. Correct. You've delayed, and so what you need to do is not worry about your house and not worry about your tithe. You need to get on the phone today and get a freaking job, Chris. It's time to do this. Painter, get off the ladder today. Yeah, yeah. You're a year, at least maybe six months late on someone kicking you, and I'm gonna kick you right now because I love you.

Get going. I'm probably about five years to 10 years late.

Okay, okay. Then somebody needs to break the fog up, so I'm your guy. I love you enough. Okay. Get going, girl. Okay. You're too sharp to be this dumb. Get going, get going. Let's go. I want you to have this done by the end of April. A new job and say bye-bye. April.


You got a month. I got it. I'm in the work.

I got my resume ready to walk. I'm in the work. You need to call me back on the air and tell me you did it. I'm gonna hold you accountable. Okay, okay, okay. And you need to call.

Who is your best girlfriend that's mean? Say it, say her name. Say her name. I don't really need your girlfriend.

Yes, you do. I don't have any. Okay.

What about your sister?

She mean I want somebody to call them and tell... I want somebody mean I want you to call them and tell them to call you and kick you if you don't do this. I want you to declare it to the world. It's time for you to roar again, Chris.

You're meowing. Yeah.

And you are not... And you are not a kitten.

You are a lioness, am I wrong? Understand. This thing was built-up by a woman of...

I am a Leo. No. This whole thing was built up by a woman of substance This was built by a woman of substance and yet you have for some reason you have watched this thing Deteriorate and your life with it to the point now you're going. I don't know if I need to pay for groceries No, you need to get a freakin job. I know this is what's going on. This is what's going on

Yeah, go get that and all of these other questions go away. Don't they you're a hundred percent, right?

Hey, ding ding ding. That's why I'm here and if you if you hey something I don't hear at home very often

There you go. If you if you hey Something very often you keep answering questions like this you're gonna turn this into a job Yeah, we can help we get now. Yeah, we get out right now So stuck in just the day to the day that sometimes you just take someone looking at you back. What are you doing? You can solve all of it all of it. Let's get trapped

But you do need you really need people in your life, in your community that are that love you enough to go uh I'm watching you do nothing and I'm tired of

it. There's that famous connect psychological study where they took the dogs and you couldn't do this study now but they shocked them and they didn't give him an opportunity to escape, and then had other dogs that they would shock, that they would allow to escape and over time they would take the barriers off the dogs that they were shocking, the dogs just took it. It was Just learn helplessness. This is the way this is gonna be and it just you need somebody to go Hey go go you can run and run away then they take off right just got to get somebody to look at you

Just kinda get somebody look at you. That's the fun thing. Yeah We all need that though. Cuz what the the fastest way. I mean, that's classic frog and a cattle thing I mean that's the way to boil a frog is turn up 1 degree at a time Just a little bit of time gradual gradual 5 years this has been

Curiorating and then you look up and you go wait a minute. I'm boiling over here. And this guy's doing nothing It's still collected half the Has on revenue has on revenue because I'm trapped in a really stupid partnership agreement. Hmm. Hey, I Hear this happen a lot people have an imaginary amount of money. They're gonna make when they leave their job. Mm-hmm

How how tightly do you tell somebody to hold on to that versus get something and then begin to maneuver and this one?

Get something and then begin to maneuver. Yeah, but um, yeah

250 and 3 just like I've been doing this job 20 years. I'm just gonna transition. She's high. She might she might she might She might she might she might I mean in this current environment where there's such a shortage of everybody high quality white-collar people I mean, yeah, it's she might I don't know. I don't know what her skill set is but Urgency is one of them. We got to add back to it. Yeah. Yeah, there we go. This is the Ramsey show Identity theft ransomware data breaches phishing scams. The cyber world has gone crazy and you have to be Protected that's why the only plan I use and recommend is through Zander insurance They combine smart cyber protection and prevention services to reduce your risk and have a dedicated team of experts to take over the work If you do become a victim go to Zander comm or call 800 Three five six forty two eighty two doctor John Deloni Ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today in the lobby

Of Ramsey solutions on the debt free stage. Andrew is with us. Hey, Andrew. How are you? Hi Dave and John?

How you doing better than we deserve brother. Where do you live? Kia-kak, Iowa. All right, very good. And how much debt have you paid officer? 303,000 whoa, how long did this take 49 months good for you and your range of income during their four years

Thirty seven five up to eighty eight five and I was also doing a part-time job taking about 15,000 year home good for you. What was your part-time gig working at a gas station quick trip a local Chain in Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa working a lot in a lot. Yeah. Yeah every holiday Every evening every weekend Wow. Yeah Wow. And what do you do for a living day job? Well, actually I'm a quality control scientist, but right as I finished my dad, I was I was laid off

So still looking for a new job there, but in quality control, but now you're three hundred and three thousand dollars less weight to carry

Exactly. Yep. Good for you. Well done. Exactly. What kind of debt was that? 93,000 in student loans 28,000 for a home improvement 22,000 for a car 10,000 in credit card and then 150,000 for a house dude your debt-free house and everything. I sold the house but to push it off

Well done well done so you're homeless but you're dead free Okay, that's all right, that's all right, you're in a really really good place congratulations. Thank you. How's it feel?

How's it feel? It feels great. It's uh, it's it's it's amazing

Well, you got well, you got you got wired up about four years ago. What happened? What got you started on this Ramsey stuff?

What got you started on this Ramsey stuff? I was I had I just moved up to Wisconsin and Edgerton, Wisconsin just outside of Madison. I moved back to Iowa last July and just one night in November, I was sitting there looking all my debts and I was like well this is gonna take me 30 40 years and had to come up with something and Your book was on my my shelf picked it up started reading it again. I just remember always Seeing you like on Fox Business and stuff like that. So just just got the fire lit

So the world's the world's largest Coaster was on the on the coffee table. Yeah again. We're just waiting for years for you to open it and do it. Yep

So you reached kind of a moment that night didn't you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah I reached definitely reached and I had a moment and just look on I was like, you know this this isn't a good life I was just my mortgage was probably 40% of my My payment of my my income and just couldn't couldn't get there So had to had to clear it up and that's why I got the part-time job because I said I needed an extra thousand a month

So dude, I say this is all due respect. You don't you've never made a ton of money. Yep, and We hear people all the time with half or less of this amount of debt Making six figures making hundred thousand bucks to say I can't do it I can't figure out how to do it and you making thirty seven five to eighty eight It's a great. It's a great salary, but we're not talking you didn't do this making 500 grand paying off $300,000. Yep, that takes a level of courage and bravery that most of us don't have I'm looking at myself thinking if I made 50 grand I I don't know how I could pull this thing off in 48 months. What got you going?

Yeah, just just just keeping on just seeing that. Hey, there's there's light at the end of the tunnel there my dim light, yeah, my 2019 I didn't the debt didn't go down at all. I paid off the credit cards, but the way the student loans were Even though making payments, it still just didn't go down But then really got the fire going um, big cheerleader was one of my friends Bjorn we would just text each other back and forth and Keep each other accountable. He's on four or five six. So I

Would love to see that text change. I hate my life. I hate mine, too

Keep going man. Keep going. Keep going man. Keep going Yeah, actually when you guys were having a sale one time and and Bjorn and I were talking I said, you know This isn't the budget for me right now and It was all of your books and he actually sent it to me as a gift

So that was wow, that was a great motivation there Wow. Very cool. Wow Good for you, man. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. Thank you. Other than Bjorn who was your biggest cheerleader?

Yeah, thank you. My dad was a good cheerleader And then but yeah, just just kept going there and he came with you today. He did he did. So where you living now?

Living at 11 Kia Kaka renting a house for my brother actually. Okay, there's no came with you today

He did he did so where you living now? Okay. All right and got to land in a new position and off we go into prosperity

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you ever go back into that charity? Yep. Absolutely. Oh, no. No never again

What do you tell people the key to getting out is?

Definitely the budget and just and just sticking to it Yeah, you know, there's gonna be days where you want to give up But where you're at that point where you gave up you wanted to keep going So just remember why you started and just keep moving forward four years a long time. Yes, it is a long time And it's really not that long in the scope of your life. In the scope of your life. No, no. You know, maybe 5% of my life, you know,

if I make it to 80, so short time, blink of an eye. What do you tell somebody staring, I just speak directly to that camera, what do you tell somebody who's staring at 250, 300, $400,000 and they're not making 350?

You know, once you get motivated, once you get started, that's when the promotions will come in, that's when the money will come in, because once you clean up one part of your life,

other parts will get cleaned up too. Yeah, amen. Well, good for you, brother. Thank you, thank you. Very, very proud of you. So we've got the Live and Give box for you, the bundle, the Baby Steps Millionaires book. That's your next chapter in your story. The total money makeover book for you to give to somebody. And maybe you'll be Bjorn for somebody in that. There we go. And Financial Peace University membership as well. So if you haven't been through the class, it's time to go through it now and make sure you finish this process out.

I'm very proud of you, brother. Thank you, thank you, Dave. Very well done. Very, very impressive. Good, good stuff. All right, it's Andrew from Iowa. 303,000 paid off in 49 months, including the sale of his house for 150 of that, making 37.5 to 88.5. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream. There we go. Thank you, thank you, Dave. Three, two, one. I'm debt-free!

Man. You know, I think we've always worked with obviously married couples and singles as well for 35, almost 40 years now, walking them through this process. In some ways, being single like him and doing this is easier because you don't have to talk somebody into it. But in other ways, you don't have anybody to kick you. There's no accountability, there's no camaraderie. It gets a little, when you fight for 48 months, I can get a little lonely. You may have Bjorn, which is backing him up by text and became his community in that process.

And you got to have that.

Yeah, and I don't care. I don't care who you are. It's hard to keep eating right for 48 months. It's hard to keep exercising every day, 48 months, it's hard to pay off debt and having somebody right there with you. I think, you're right, it's harder to stay on the tracks. But, man, it's easier when somebody's just walking there with you.

Yeah, but I mean, it's a different dynamic to go through this transformational process, to clear the debt, to stick with it for a married couple than for a single. Each one has its own advantages and difficulties. So like you're not, you haven't got it easier, but you haven't got it that much harder. You just got a different kind of hard when you're single or when you're married. And all of it's hard, but there's a process. And so sometimes it's hard, you got to talk somebody into it. You're dragging along the spouse, you're trying to get them involved. You just, you can't seem to get them, it's dead weight you're dragging. And then on the other hand, the other way, you're like, man, I wish I had some help here. I wish I had somebody to tell me to do this. So there's different kinds of hard, but it's worth it. But for me, watching someone like him, that's a particular kind of hero.


It does that. There you go. This one's hard. You just think back to the time when my wife and I owed six figures and we were living in a residence hall. And we made good money, our combined salaries, and I didn't know how we were going to do it. And to look at, to be able to say, I'm making 37.5 and I've got a $303,000 hole, I'm going after it. That's a level of strength and bravery and commitment that inspires me even to this day. Amen. Like, man, there's, I don't care how small I am, I'm going to get in the ring, I'm going to hit that dude. Right?

I'm going to try and knock him down. Amen. So the point for those of you that are listening or watching is you too can do it. We don't go with excuses around here. We don't even go with the reasons. You can do it. You can do it. People just like you have done it. We've been doing this a long time. I don't care who you are. Someone like you has done their dead free scream. I really don't care.

Yes, you can. Now it's time. It's your turn. Ready, set, go. You could be a great driver, but if you never check under the hood, your car won't last very long. The same principle goes for your business. NetSuite by Oracle gives you the visibility under the hood. In business, that means knowing your numbers. NetSuite gives you access to the real-time data you need to make smart decisions. Plan for the future and move fast. Set up a free product tour today at slash Ramsey. That's slash Ramsey.

With debt payments and now with inflation stealing more and more of your paycheck, we know a lot of you feel like you're drowning and you're scared to death. I've been there myself. It's no fun. Doesn't have to be that way though. You can say just like our last dead free scream, Randrew, I've had it. Not living like this anymore. And we can show you how to do some new things with your money that you've never done before that'll cause you to be able to win. They're nothing really earth shattering. It's basically common sense, but we not only show you what to do, we help make you do it. It's called Financial Peace University. It's a nine week, nine lesson course that'll teach you how to beat debt, build wealth and be outrageously generous. It's everything you wish you'd learned about money.

Nearly 10 million people have been through Financial Peace University, FPU, and now they're in control and they got margin and you can too. So decide that you're done with money stress. Decide you're done and you're gonna take control. Start Financial Peace University at slash FPU, slash FPU. Jessica is with us. She is in, oops, that's not Jessica. Let me try again. Jessica's with us in Jeff City, Missouri. Hey, Jeff.

Jessica, what's up? Hi, thank you so much for taking my call today. I'm in a rock, in a hard place. I wanna have another baby, but I also wanna go back to school to get my income up

and we don't really know what to do.

Which one do you want more?

Both at the same time, both and?

Why can't you do them both at the same time? We have two children now and we just got out of debt on the first. So we're trying to build our emergency fund.

So our baby steps three and.

We have health insurance? Yeah. How much does it cost to have a baby? Like 10 grand. No it doesn't, not out of pocket.

It did for us the last two we did.

You have horrible insurance.

It doesn't cost but 10 grand to have a baby. Yeah, well, I was in the hospital a lot with both our kids.

So with COVID and health issues while I was pregnant. Oh, okay. So we had extended stays.

It's not just a simple labor and delivery.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

You anticipate that this time as well? Participate that. Possibly, I'm healthier but possibly. So I would prefer to anticipate it than not.

Yeah, that makes sense. Which helps it not to happen because you're not stressed.

That makes sense. Yeah, I'm not as stressed. So that's good, but. Is there, are you working right now?

Yes. Is there a way to split the difference and you and your husband really get fanatical and put three or four or 5,000 bucks in an account and just pause everything and store up some cash?

They give you some peace? Yeah, you can.

He wants 30,000 for our emergency fund. Well, I want a pony too. And sometimes, you know what I mean? I don't actually want a pony at all, actually. Not even a little bit, but weird. I mean, you can, I mean, you can wish all kinds of things, but sometimes it's going to take a minute to get there.

So he wants 30 grand, so he wants 30 grand. If you had 10 or 15,000 in your emergency fund, you'd be well on your way. If you want to keep going towards 30, that's fine. Is that necessary before you had a child? No, it's not, okay. And so, but I think you do need to, so the answer is how are we going to do all these things in order, not all at once? When you try to do them all at once, it's impossible because it's overwhelming and you just simply don't have the bandwidth of time, energy, money to do, just say, oh, by the end of April, we'll have all of this going. No, you're not. You're not going to graduate from school and have a baby by the end of April. It's not going to happen. So why don't we just say which one is going to happen later than the other one? And I don't care, it's your life.

So, I mean, like we're going to have our baby first and during the time that we're having that child, the nine month timeframe, we're going to finish up this emergency fund and get it up to 15 to $30,000 during that time. And then after the child comes home and I'm able to get back to work and then I'll start talking about going to school or I'm going to put off having a kid to get my degree finished. I don't care which one, but just decide.

So it's not, no, it's not now. Yeah, I just want to, I feel like I'm not contributing if I'm not working and if we have another baby, daycare costs are expensive too, so then.

So what, here's what I don't want you to do, Jess, I don't want you to circumvent that concern because that idea that I'm not contributing is something, it's in the air we breathe when it comes to making women feel guilty on, if they choose to go to work, if they choose to stay at home, there's all of this contribution nonsense that is just pumped at you 24 seven, 365, you have to make peace with that because no degree, no other kid and another kid, another kid, no emergency fund amount is going to let you sleep at night because those aren't the issues. The issue is you're looking in the mirror and thinking, I'm not participating in this household and that's simply not true, you got to address that.

What's your husband make?

80 to 90.

Does he say you have to be a financial contributor to you?

No. Okay, so this is you saying this to you

or our toxic culture saying this to you?

Me saying it to me. Yeah, so let me give you an example, okay? 38 years ago, my wife, 36 years ago, I mean, my wife went home when she had our first child as a full-time mom and has never worked outside the home since and one of the reasons that I am a national brand and a highly successful business person is because I don't have to deal with drama at home. She's the opposite of a drama queen. She maintains the fort and the fortress. She fights off all the enemies and when I get home, it's a place of peace, not a place that I have to add yet another level of stress. That has given me a foundation to come to the office and fight the dragons every day for 30 years. I would submit to you, Jessica, that Sharon Ramsey is a contributor to our wealth. You see how that works? She really is. I mean, that's legitimate. That's not me just philosophically discussing something.

There's an actual factual piece of data here that says that one of the reasons we have the money we have is because I've been able to focus at work instead of having to deal with a bunch of crap with some princess at home and so I call that contributing and so did she go out and make $10 million during that time? No, she didn't make a dime during that time except for consignment cell clothing, which I still can't get her to quit doing, but like we're still broke. I mean, come on. She still sells our clothes. Give them away. But anyway, yeah, because she wants to contribute. But yeah, oh my God. But yeah, that's the thing. So there's mom guilt if you work and there's mom guilt if you don't work, right? And so that's what John's doing.

And it's coming from the outside in, it's coming from the inside out, right?

Exactly, exactly, because it gets planted in you early on and Sharon's dealt with that. Rachel, who's a very, very busy career woman, Ramsey personality deals with it and talks about it openly. Okay, I feel bad if I'm leaving to go, but also this is what I'm called to do and I'm gonna go do it. And if I didn't go do it, I feel bad for not going to do it. And so it's like, yeah, damn it if I do, damn if I don't. And so some point you gotta work through that and make peace with it. And then that allows you to decide

why I'm going back to school. My what deals with that? That's exactly right. And that order you're talking about, it tends to line that order up pretty easily. Sometimes, if you're trapped in a story that you're telling yourself, I'm only worth this, or my only value is this, or I'm not contributing, there's something really powerful about writing that down and reading that to your spouse, especially in this situation where there's not a spouse, like, man, you need to get off your butt and get a job. And there's, you know, two kids and a third on the way, that, that idiot, that doesn't sound like her husband at all. No. It sounds like she's telling herself a story and... And he doesn't make a bad income. You know, he's doing fine. Yeah, he's doing fine. Especially you're gonna have, you're gonna have a mad house with three young kids running around, and no one's gonna have a lot of money with all that.

That's life. But he's not, he's doing well. But I think sit down and tell him that. Hey, I don't feel like I'm contributing. Let him respond like you did. And sometimes there is a sense of peace

that we didn't even know was there. You know, when we were doing it, I'm not sure I really grasped it. I didn't care. I didn't. I didn't care. But when I look back on it now, I'm 100% sure I'm Dave Ramsey that everybody knows because of what she took care of at home. It would not have happened otherwise. If I had to deal with what some of my buddies have had to deal with, oh my Lord. Yeah. No question in my house.

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