Sacrifice NOW so You Can Enjoy Your Money LATER (Hour 3)

January 14, 2022

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Saving, Education, Career, Debt, Taxes, Budgeting

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live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey show where dad is done cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Rachel, Cruze Ramsey personality. Bestselling author is my co host today. As we answer your questions about your life and your money, we talk about your work, your life, your relationships, your money. All right here. Thanks for joining us. It's a free call. Triple 882552 to 5. Chris is with us in columbus Ohio hi chris, welcome to the Ramsey show. Hi Dave and Rachel. Thanks for taking my call.

I was, I was calling in to ask about saving up for my son's future. So my wife and I had currently on baby steps 45 and six and in the fall we opened up a 5 29 for our nine month old son. Well thank you. Um, and we actually found out over the holidays that my grandma wants to contribute $25,000 to my son's future. Um, she wasn't, she's not super specific with how she wants that money to be saved for him. And so you know, we have the 5 29 account and we were wondering if the best thing to do would be to just throw into the account we already have or is there another type of account that would be like a non retirement investment account or something that would give us more control and more freedom in case you know, maybe he doesn't go to college and just that we have a little bit more ability to do things with it just because we want to make, you know the wisest decision with such a big gift. Yeah. That is so cool. That's so cool. She needs to be sure she writes that in two different checks, one to you and one of your wife, so she doesn't get into gift tax. Okay, Alright, good. Now once we're doing that, yeah, you can drop it into the 5 29 if you want.

That's not a problem. Um and it would, it would probably mean that you're done with college then and you can save for other things if you want to outside the 5 29 That's assuming your particular 529 allows a contribution of that large in one year. Some of them have a $10,000 limit, some of them have a $50,000 limit so you have to check on yours and see what you're doing there now what you can do and before the 5 20 nine's and the essays were out there when Rachel was a, we taught um we were not able, we didn't have those types of college funds for our kids, they weren't available. And so the way you save for college in those days was you just opened a mutual fund in the kid's name, it's called an ultima, an utma uniform transfer to minors act, which by the way if you open a bank account for the located, it's the same thing because minors cannot conduct business, they can't do contract in any state. And so the parent is always doing it, you put the kid's name on it, but it has a custodian and you're the custodian of the account. Now, what that does is that by being in the kid's name, it won't have any income tax on it until the, until the account makes enough in one year to break through standard deductions. Okay. And so um you know, if it breaks through standard deductions, it may have a little bit of tax on it, but it'll grow largely tax free for a long time, $25,000 won't make enough for many years until it grows to probably double that to where you actually get into paying any taxes on it. So that's what we used, we just had mutual funds in the kid's names And um, you know, and you know, when they got ready to go to school that money was there, we could use it for school. Now those are controlled until the child is 21 When they're 21, it's their money and you don't have any control over that, technically speaking. Now, you know, we're, we're kind of old fashioned dinosaur parents. And so if they're doing heroin, we'll just hide the money, screw it, you know, sue me Right?

But, but that's like that's kind of like stealing their money technically, you know? But I would steal it before I'd give it to them if they're doing heroin. So um because I put it in there in the first place, right? So deal with it. But yeah, but that technically speaking, you know if they're if they're off the ranch, if they've lost their dad gum minds at 21, it's still their money. Yeah. Yeah. That that was the other concern that we had, we wanted to make sure, you know, we obviously don't plan on that kind of thing happening but we wanted to make sure that we didn't know if there's a way that there was an account that we could have that make sure that we had control over it. So it was used for a wise investment. Not just okay,

Okay. I'm thinking this out loud, so I could be totally wrong on this. So what would be the thing if they if Chris just took that 25,000 put it in a mutual fund in his name and then paid out the kid's college

would be fine. But all of the all the income on the mutual funds going to be taxed taxed when they take it out, it's always gonna be taxable. Well it depends on the if the mutual fund is a low turnover, it won't be taxed now, but if it's a high turnover, regular mutual fund, you're going to pay taxes on it. So the tax positions substantial over 20 years.


I just, you know, I started with the assumption that I was just gonna make my kids behave and so we always laughed and said, we put a bunch of money in their names so let the beatings begin. I mean like uh, you know, counseling. Yeah, there you go. This is what this is paid for your counseling bill later. But yeah, but the uh, but I mean that's what it was. It was a joke. It was a joke and you seem

so hardcore. I'm like, you're not intense parents. Everyone's like, oh my, I was like, he was way more chill at home than he is on the radio.

I know. But yeah, the point being that, you know, a lot of people are afraid of what's gonna happen with a kid when they grow up and that's a, that is a normal thing

or what's gonna happen to college. That's a big conversation. What is a four year degree look like in 18 years? Do you know what I mean? Like that that whole industry is shifting so much higher ed because of all things. But I'm like that and that's, it hasn't. I mean we have a 64 and two year old and we did, you know, we have 5 20 nine's for all of them. But I do think that in the back of my head where I'm like, man, what like, I don't know what if, because it's it's it's a, you kind of do bank when you do an essay or 5 29 it's for the education world. I mean, that's what it is. So


is there any time you would shift your advice


do it? Yeah, Yeah,

but and here's the other thing, if the whole thing completely unraveled, you just take the money out, you just gotta pay taxes on it, it's got a penalty and taxes. It's like, you don't use it for education. If you don't use it for education, you just take it out, you got it, you got taxes and a penalty cash in our retirement account early. But that's like the whole world melted down. There's no education options, which won't happen. Of course there's gonna be education options. So the other thing is, is that your brain, the

Conspiracy blog I read the other day, you wouldn't read a conspiracy blog. This world's gonna be an 18

year. You read a conspiracy blog. I can't believe that Rachel, she's queen for those of you don't know, she's queen of all conspiracy theories. This is our whole thanksgiving dinner, christmas dinner, we've had, we've had to finally just go, we can't do anymore Rachel stop because she just destroys our family dinner

or something. I

don't know actually actually sit on the board in the illuminati and so that that according to Rachel, oh my God, oh, this is the Ramsey

show, wow. Yeah,

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Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. Yes sir and I uh my wife and I had a the privilege of attending your event last night. I want to thank you for the wisdom that you provided for that. Thank you. Um but we are starting our first business together this year. Were set to open up in just a couple of short weeks here. And we wanted, we wanted to know if we should uh budget off of our savings that we already have in our bank or if we should plan to budget up of what we're going to make from the business this year. Your personal budget at home. Yes sir. Okay. There are there are income from the business.

If you don't have income. Do you have do you have other jobs other than this business? No sir. We left our W2 jobs to do this. Whoa. Okay. How much do you have in savings? We have 175,000, wow. Good for you. Okay. What's it take for you to operate your household a month? How much do you need a month?

What's your burn rate? It's 85,000 a year. Yes sir. Not a month. Okay. Alright. So it takes $7,000 a month to operate your house. Um um Well we have three kids in preschool um takes quite a bit, our mortgage is About 22% of that. Um So it basically budgeted everything on percentage based around that. Those are the two big things. Well what do you, what kind of business are you opening? We have a recreational axle in business, recreational what ax throwing ax


Yes, yes. Yeah, I'm just, I'm just kind of aghast you quit your jobs to do this until you have it open and going, oh my gosh

well have you Well, well did y'all have prior experience act like, have you guys been running this? Like what, what's a little bit of the story and where is it

is a story. Yeah, we are in franklin. We opened up a mobile acts during trailer last year and this is our stepping stone into the full time storefront. We just wanted to know like the psychology kind of behind knowing that we got money to take care of us this year or if we should really press. Yeah. Okay. So what do you, what are you projecting revenues or net profits? That you could take out of the business. The product that we could again, the projections, but they are, they range from 300 to 400 this year and then double that next year. $1000. Yes Sir. With recreational ax throwing, get there.

It's a bigger thing than I knew. I knew it existed. I knew it existed. But my gosh, I mean, this is like, should we, should we,

are we in the wrong business?

Apparently I am, I mean, yeah, I don't know. I mean,

how are you getting these numbers though? Because you, you guys obviously had, you said you did one like kind of in a trailer and you're just saying, hey, if we had this amount of people like, do you know what I mean? Like what's um,

mm hmm. Yeah, this has been in the works for a couple of years. Um, the, you know, the sport, if I can call it that is been around for a handful of years and we've, we've gone to other places, talked to other people who have been involved. The numbers work really well for where we are. And uh, there's multiple in Nashville. There's other locations. I mean, I've seen it and I knew it was, you know, sometimes a part of a, a sports bar of a thing or something like that. I mean, I've seen these things, but I just had no idea that they were doing this kind of money. That I'm just, I'm that's awesome. I'm I sure hope that's a group. You do that. That's amazing.

Okay, so if you're gonna do that, you won't need any of your savings, right? Yeah, I guess I just didn't want to take that. We're taking that risk of this first year. Um If you make $300,000, dude, why would you use any of your savings when you only need 85 to live on? I guess it was just making sure that we can, you know, those projections are just projections to a certain degree until we actually, well if you don't hit your projections, you might have to use some of your savings. But if you hit 1/3 of your projections, you won't have any issue. If you if you're if you're sick, if you're 70% off on your projections, you're still okay. That sounds good. You're not you're talking about profit, right? Not revenue. Yes, sir, that's correct. Okay.

Yeah, I mean if you if you're 70% off, you're gonna make $100,000. You understand? Yes, sir. So if you don't enter projections dip into your savings, but if you don't hit your projections, you've got other stuff going on because you're going to be dramatically. I don't want to use the wrong metaphor here. You you dramatically missed the bullseye. I mean, what would you what would you say with the ax throwing? I don't know what Yeah, I mean, you, wow, that's

great, Zach. I mean,

that's amazing. I gotta go try it. It's right in the neighborhood James. Let's go,

let's go

make sure this guy, make sure this guy's business.

So here's a, just like, let's play it out the other way.

Let's say it does nothing. Exactly. So let's say you take out $85,000 in a year out of 175.

Yeah. And, and, and to the point, you know when people go, because I mean there's people are saying that it's called, they were thinking, hey, yeah, I'm wanting to do a thing and obviously I'm, I'm assuming they, they're not doing it out of the trailer anymore. I think he said are stepping stone. So if you go in and least like a storefront, that's what I think. He said something about storefront. So, I mean you're locked into like a year contract. I mean like, so so people that want to do something that acts throwing necessarily, but get into a business and want to kind of make the jump, what are a couple of things, How can they do that wisely?

Well this guy did it this extremely wisely because what he's got this big fat savings over here and if his projections are way off, He's still okay. You know, he and I don't know what they were making, what kind of W2 jobs they walked away from. But um and apparently those projections are not based on wet finger in the air there based on an upgrade from the former mobile business, right? The mobile ax throwing business um things you don't get on other shows, but um but I mean, you know, it's so if you can start your business part time Before you quit your W. two, which is what they did essentially and proof text it meaning get it moving in the market, but you're putting

your foot off, one ft on the dock, one ft in the boat, you're testing it out. And then once you feel like, okay, we're making these projections

Where we make the step and they make that step and it's not that big a step then. I mean, let's just pretend that he made 150 mobile and they figure they can double it. Right, okay. Um That's not unreasonable. And they got a lot of leeway to be wrong and still be okay. You know, they're not gonna make less than they used to make. I don't know what they used to make. We don't ask them, but I mean they're not going to that 1 75 pad there. That's a big deal. It's a big deal, wow, man, I'm coming to visit. I wanna try it. Yeah, that's cool, man, wow, this is the Ramsey show okay.

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mm hmm.

Mhm. Yeah. Rachel, Cruze. Ramsey personality is my co host today in the lobby of Ramsey solutions on the debt free stage. Jason and heather are with us. Hey guys, how are you so excited to be here more honored to have you guys welcome welcome. Where do you live?

We live in Winston Salem north Carolina.

I love Winston, Salem a great town. Thanks for visiting us guys. Good to have you. How much debt

Have you paid off? We paid off $106,000 in 3.5 years

wow. Yeah. And your range of income during that time?

We started at $30,000 and ended at $100,000.

What happened there?

Well, we actually, we started when we were not yet married about four years ago, we knew we were getting serious, we were dating and we took FP you the beginning of 2018. And um And so we had separate $30,000 incomes which doesn't really affect that. But part of it was he had a lot of credit card debt and I was really concerned about that. And I was a single mom of three teen, three teenagers and I just wanted to make sure we were moving in the right

Direction. Good. That's very wise, good for you. What kind of debt was? 206? All credit cards? We

had 35 credit card 38 was a heloc. We had 10,000 in medical and then 23 to the K. G. I. R. S.

Good for you guys. Cool. What do y'all do for a living?

I am actually I started out in the banking industry and then went back into home maintenance. I'm a handyman

actually. That's a very good job, very good career

and I was I was a residential cleaner and I actually transitioned into just staying at home.

Okay so the handyman business is good then. Yeah. Excellent. Good for you guys. Very cool. So um the whole thing of the whole thing of you look you're dating, you look up and see some credit card debt, that's what gets this whole thing started.

Yeah I mean we both, I think we're wanting something similar but we have we have quite a journey. I mean our journey didn't really get started until we got married the end of 2018 and I'll let Jason share a little bit about that we

got married um 99 18 and that's really where our story began and our walk began. Um I have a problem with alcohol and I had been drinking and not able to quit because I drink alcoholic li uh and I had lied to heather. If you were walking on this planet, I was telling you I was sober, but I could not stop 60 days into our marriage, we separated heather left the home december 2nd 2000 and 18 is my sobriety date, but the most important date besides my birthday is 12, 12 18, which is the day I gave my life to jesus christ wow,

whoa, this is a story right here, man.

Yeah, it's been a journey. So it was just for my safety necessary for me to leave. Very hard to do. I mean just I think, what do people think after you've only been married two months? It's

just what people think if you are in a mess, you got to get away from the mess

and because he had deceived me so much and I had to leave under you know, to keep myself safe. I didn't see him for five months and I wanted things to work out, but I wasn't like sure said that it was, it would have to. Um but he

in the, in the meanwhile, um it was a lot of white knuckle 12 step program um and then I got involved with the men's ministry marked men for christ and to have christian men surround you to know you to speak truth over you on how the lord sees you as his child and to feel that in your heart for the first time um is transformational

is unbelievable because

jesus christ is the only one that can truly break the chains of addiction. He's the only one that can level the mountains of anxiety and fear and he's done all that and in that process because I have busy hands and the skill set being a handyman, we completely gutted. I completely go to the kitchen down to the studs and rebuild it with my own hands and that transformation of our kitchen in our home walked right along with jesus rebuilding a new marriage set on a solid foundation and we have pictures that we've uploaded to show that, wow

powerful. How old are you?

I'm 40

one and I am 48

And you so you've been dry two years

three years. Yes, it's 37, months,

three years. Yeah, I miscount way to go man, thank you so proud of you. Thank you. This is so very cool. So very cool and oh by the way we got out of that. Yeah, I mean it's like that ain't nothing compared to the rest of this right?

Yeah, we retook FP you together once we had gotten back together and um that was the first time we were able to combine our finances because before when I tried to sit down and we do budget, it would just, it would erupt and nothing could happen. So it was amazing. That was about three years ago is when we finally were able to

sit down and you all had a lot of things moving changing in this process, which is just so beautiful though because I guess you stand here today, it's like you're completely different people and most of the time, you know, it's obviously the financial is what brings people here on this stage and we hear some of the good stuff, right, whether it's like, you know our marriage is better, you know, I was, I got healthy or whatever it is, but I mean these are big buckets, you guys from a variety to finding jesus to this financial piece of all of it. I mean it's incredible. So through the journey, you guys worked together as a married couple again. Right. So what was, what was difficult about it? Did these other things come into play? Like what did it, what did it feel like? What was hard?

Um I think, I think for me, what was difficult was that um it was just a lot of work. I mean once we finally got into it and got serious about it, like Jason was just, I mean we both worked hard, but he he works harder than anybody I've ever met and um, so it's hard to stay connected in your marriage when you're rarely seeing each other and you know, then just coming home and crashing, you know?

Absolutely, Absolutely. Yeah, that is hard because it takes the hours out of the day, like, it is, there's a, there's a factor there.

So you guys heather, you're having to rebuild trust. It takes a while. It's not instantaneous if, if you're smart, normal people, it takes a little bit of time to rebuild trust after that much deception and um, and so that's it by degrees, that's by increments. Um, and yet you guys are working hand in hand on the budget during this time with money. Were you uh, were you trusting each other on that part to me? Was that helping with that? Or is that hard? I think,

you know, to your point, i that is completely my story and I think it was hard sometimes, you know, like, I still had those, like, is he still hiding something from me? You know, like, and um, and it just takes time and consistency to start and you know, and God in your life to start paving that trust again, you know? And

um yeah, well that, that's not, that's reasonable and that's not unfair. It's unfair to, for the trust not to be building, but it's, it's also unfair to expect it to be instantaneous without a track record. Absolutely. And so it's very cool. You guys are very well done. I mean it sounds like you've got some wonderful people around you in your life that are pouring into you and uh resetting a whole bunch of stuff in your, in your lives of spiritual walk is uh that you described is absolutely powerful. That's so well done. Yeah, there's some good good people there. That's good stuff guys, proud of you when we get to be a tiny little part of this big story. This is a big story here. It's a big one, man, that's so cool. That's so cool.

So um man, good, good, good. So now that you, you know you come back together after all this stuff and we say all right, we're going to lean in on the money man. That's just what

was what was the big, what was the big factor financially in this, in that part of your story that helped get out of debt? So people listening that may have have all this life

Yeah, one

on the same page, right? You have to be hand in hand, you have to be facing it together And then um also when you commit to getting out of debt and never using a get using debt again, you only have to pay off that credit card one

time one time and you're done. Alright, count it down, let's hear a debt free screen 106,000 paid off in 3.5 years heather and Jason


213333 on so many levels, it's a beautiful thing. Oh my gosh, psalm

1830. As for God his way is perfect. The Lord's word is flawless. He shields all who take refuge in him, brian Tracy said integrity is the most valuable and respected quality of leadership. Always keep your word open phones this hour at triple 882552 to 5 Rachel. Cruze. Ramsey personality is my co host Matt is in Lansing michigan. Hey Matt, welcome to the Ramsey show. Mhm. Thank you Mr Ramsey and MS Cruz, I appreciate your time today, thank you. How can we help? Uh So my wife and I are big fans were baby steps seven.

Um We've been following you guys for a handful of years and it's helped us get through some some tough times uh in the past and um we're at a point now where we've we've got some money saved up and and we'd like to we'd like to build an out building on our property and as you can imagine the price coats we're getting our rather outrageous right now um we have the cash um but struggling a little bit parting ways with it, Given the uh given given the price quotes were getting and feeling kind of like is this inflation thing gonna turn and and should we just wait it out a little bit more and and wanted to get some of your advice on that, how much you're spending on it. Um it's probably and it's a it's a good sized barn. It's probably gonna be like 75-100000. Mhm. Okay. And what? So your quote, let's call it 100 grand in the current environment? In the current environment. What, what did you think it was gonna be before all this garbage hit? I was expecting it to be like about like 45 50. So it's almost double what your emotions were. Yeah.

Okay. So what's your net worth? Um 1.7. All right.

I mean matt you can, I mean, you can take the hit. You guys can do it. You have the money. It's not, it's not a crazy percentage of your world. Uh It's gonna be a nasty pill to swallow because you're just like, but if it's something you, you guys want right now and you're and you have the cash for it. I mean, you can do it, you can wait it out. The only the hard thing with waiting it out for me is we don't know when this is going to end. We talked about a little bit this last night at the event um that we had talking about inflation and all of that, but there's not a crystal ball. We don't know. So,

So let's say this is $40,000 over what you wanted to spend mm hmm. And that's what, that's what the ouchi is. Okay. Um, 40,000 as a percentage of 1.7. It's not a biscuit dude. And you can't buy a biscuit with this. I mean, it's not, you know, it's not that big a deal. If it was 400,000, it was 1/4 of your net worth or something. We talk about waiting and seeing if this inflation calms down or something. But this is a very small percentage of your world. This is 90% emotional and 10% mathematical. This problem that you're facing, Would you agree with that?

Because the ratio of your written at worth? Uh, yeah, I would, Uh, I hear what you're saying. It was actually interesting. We were chatting about it last night and we had them to stumble upon your, your live broadcast last night. And my wife said you should just call David and ask him what he thinks. I don't know. Uh, in 36 months, could you build that barn instead of for 90 or 100? Could you build it for 80? Probably. Yeah. It'll probably come down because it's cost of lumber, cost of labor. And those two things are outrageous right now.

And I think there, I don't think they're gonna stay where they are. Uh, so you can probably, you can probably wait three years and save $10,000 or whatever. But you know what you're worth? $1.7 million, that's 40 grand build a barn, man. What ain't that big a deal, mm hmm. Again, if it's 400,000 as a percentage of your world, I tell you tap the brakes, let's wait on this stuff to calm down. But it's 40 grand swing And, and, and after after when it swings back, how far is it gonna swing? It ain't gonna swing back all that 40. So, you know, it is going to come down though. I mean, I, I think you could look up three years from now and go, I can build that barn that I just spent 90 on, I can build it for 70 now and I think you'll probably see that. But Whoopi this is why you've done all of this so you can have this morning, I got a feeling there's a whole lot of stuff in your head that, that the enjoyment of this outbuilding, the things you're gonna do here. I think it's something that's going to add value to your life or you wouldn't be talking about it and it wouldn't be that big a strain emotionally if it wasn't gonna add value.

If it was just kind of we just wait, you know, nothing but you're actually calling about it because it means something, you know, so I'm building it if I'm in your shoes and uh, by the way, I'm building a, you know, 2500 square foot auditorium on top of the hill up here right now and steel prices doubled. Uh, so, um, I bought the steel before they doubled because I saw part of it coming, but it's still, you know, stinking, not on budget. Um, but we're going to build it, we're building, we're finishing it. So it's, it's there and uh, 50,000 square foot of, um, of commercial buildings, a little different scale, a little different number zeros on the end of this deal. But it's, but it's, it's a, it's a, it's a blow we can absorb and it doesn't change our life and, and the enjoyment and the things that that event center is gonna do for Ramsey solutions and for helping people, it's gonna be worth. Whatever. Whatever my feelings are hurt about prices because that's really what it is. It hurts your feelings. It makes you angry. The steel did what


want. What for the electronics? Oh my gosh, You okay? Yeah, I just bought, I just, we just bought all the, we bought all the sound system the other day, we're putting in a warehouse because we don't even need it toward the wall. But same thing stinking chips. It's just God.

But again, that in context of this conversation though, it is because it's with cash, it's a small percentage of the world a mat and your example. But if you are, but if you're, you know, if you're having to replace the car, we talked about this in the last segment. Um, you know, maybe pause on that if it's a big part of your, of your world, there are times to pause. You guys, there are times to pause and I understand

that. That's right. That's right. I mean, you know, it's not a, it's a percentage. If you really think things are that, this is going to come down, something's going to come down, then you wait it out. If it's a big percentage. And uh, I think that's the thing, the, um, ratios or that's the principal's always look at the ratio of, uh, what's going on here again. If he had the ratio, an example would be, if it was at a zero to that or, or not even a zero, if you had Half of zero to it and it's a $500,000 deal out of 1.7, then no, we're not. We're just gonna wait, it's too big. Then you need to wait that out because it's a lot of money in ratio.

But I love always the answer, spend it well when it's the wise time when it's wise and you can do it, enjoy it matt. Like that's part of it. I feel like everyone thinks like when I think of even Ramsey or the show, it's like, oh, you gotta just sacrifice all the time. So all you do in life is just sacrifice, sacrifice, sacrifice and yes, you do

live like no one else. So later you can build the barn but the

but the later, so you can live and give like no one else we don't talk about as much and it's so fun when you're like yes

matt, then you can just buy the car, you know, live like no one else you get that gives you margin, it gives you options, it gives you choices. That's all money is good for, money is not, it's not good for anything except that it's good for the generosity that it can do, it's good for the stability that it can bring to your life, but it's not really just piling it up in a big old pile, it's not in and of itself, it's of no value. It's what it does in your life. They, it's what you know, the options, the the different position you put yourself in, in your relationships and the different position you put yourself in the community and all of those kinds of things.

It's not the end game, it's not if it

is the end game, you've got another problem that you've got a spiritual issue and now you started worshiping idols, bigger barns. There you go, oh

there's a lot of

barns in this story, James, it's a family trait, it's a family trait, the exact wrong metaphors love it. It's so fun, well done, good show James and Ben and Justin in the booth, we appreciate you guys Rachel, Austin, I'm sorry and I can't get nothing right,

good job

Rachel will be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace christ, jesus,

mm hmm. Yeah, this is James Childs

producer of the

Ramsey Show, did you know the Ramsey show is

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